Scott Done? Time to package Whalen and picks for a trade

[GapControl]

With Scott done and The Law Firm struggling is it time to trade Whalen and a pick to a team with RB depth?

[Scottishbengal]

what team deep in RBs would want a WR and what pick would they dictate. I'm not sure the Bengals are in a strong position to negotiate and would hate to see a high pick tossed away.

Would rather work on the O-line and Law Firm to get some productivity going, and keep hold of the pick.

[cHaD711Johnson]

what team deep in RBs would want a WR and what pick would they dictate. I'm not sure the Bengals are in a strong position to negotiate and would hate to see a high pick tossed away.

Would rather work on the O-line and Law Firm to get some productivity going, and keep hold of the pick.

It's not the O-Line. BJGE hasn't made one defender miss the entire season, or broke any tackles. Bernard Scott was looking good in there before the injury. This guy just doesn't have the ability to make the big play, which is why New England let him go. Already wishing that we signed Bush instead.

[HoosierCat]

It's not the O-Line. BJGE hasn't made one defender miss the entire season, or broke any tackles. Bernard Scott was looking good in there before the injury. This guy just doesn't have the ability to make the big play, which is why New England let him go. Already wishing that we signed Bush instead.

Well, they didn't sign the Law Firm to make big plays. He was inked to be a workhorse with good ball security who could provide that short yardage and goal-line punch the team has lacked forever. No one expected him to rip off 40, 50 yards runs on a regular basis. The run game was clearly second fiddle to the passing game; that it isn't able to carry the team ought not to be a surprise.

IMO the bigger problem is the passing game. Teams are blanketing Green, which ought to create opportunities for other guys to get open, but it's not happening. Tate is pretty much junk as a WR. Binns is a No. 3 wide receiver, tops. Hawkins is crazy quick but he's not suited to be a downfield receiver. Marvin Jones might be the guy we need -- he has the speed to be Green's Chris Henry -- but they won't put him on the field! They may as well give Sanu Gradkowski's job for all the good he's doing at wideout, and Ryan Whalen has the world's cushiest job. On the plus side the offense did seem to get Greshman a bit more involved in the passing game this time, but what he can accomplish is limited by their need to keep him in to pass protect.

My step one for next week is to get Jones involved.

[cHaD711Johnson]

Eh, Hawkins was open and dropped a few catchable balls. Binns probably isn't the answer at 2, and we should see more of Jones. The running game opens up the pass. I don't need Law Firm to give me a 40 or 50 yard run, he's not even getting 10-12 yarders.

[HoosierCat]

Eh, Hawkins was open and dropped a few catchable balls. Binns probably isn't the answer at 2, and we should see more of Jones. The running game opens up the pass. I don't need Law Firm to give me a 40 or 50 yard run, he's not even getting 10-12 yarders.

No Cincy back has done that regularly since the days of Corey Dillon. The run doesn't set up the pass in this league any more. It's a passing league, and right now, outside of Green, our passing game's league is strictly "bush."

[skyline]

I really don't understand you guys. The passing game has been amazing all year. One bad game and you're ready to call it a big problem?

[volcom69]

Problem is the WR not getting off man coverage, yesterday when Dalton had time he had no where to go. Marvin Jones needs to play but he is inactive most of the time.

[cHaD711Johnson]

Eh, Hawkins was open and dropped a few catchable balls. Binns probably isn't the answer at 2, and we should see more of Jones. The running game opens up the pass. I don't need Law Firm to give me a 40 or 50 yard run, he's not even getting 10-12 yarders.

No Cincy back has done that regularly since the days of Corey Dillon. The run doesn't set up the pass in this league any more. It's a passing league, and right now, outside of Green, our passing game's league is strictly "bush."

Regularly? Have we even gotten 4-5 of those all year? Passing league or not, we have the worst starting RB in the National Football League. That is not acceptable.

[BengalByTheBay]

Eh, Hawkins was open and dropped a few catchable balls. Binns probably isn't the answer at 2, and we should see more of Jones. The running game opens up the pass. I don't need Law Firm to give me a 40 or 50 yard run, he's not even getting 10-12 yarders.

No Cincy back has done that regularly since the days of Corey Dillon. The run doesn't set up the pass in this league any more. It's a passing league, and right now, outside of Green, our passing game's league is strictly "bush."

Regularly? Have we even gotten 4-5 of those all year? Passing league or not, we have the worst starting RB in the National Football League. That is not acceptable.

"Worst" is probably slightly overstated. I think Green Bay's starting RB is worse.

[cHaD711Johnson]

If it is, then it's only slightly worse.

[ArmyBengal]

C'mon, did anyone here think BJGE was going to be the next Darren Sproles or something ??

I think it was mentioned, but he is the work horse for short yardage and was brought in for his redzone abilities and ball security.

While some of those things haven't turned out, it doesn't change why he was brought in and they banked on Scott bot sucking and getting injured.

The passing game is the issue ??

Funny nobody was complaining about that issue when Dalton had back to back 300 yard passing games and TD's going to everyone.

All of a sudden Binns is nothing better than a practice squad player again ?? Tough crowd.

Fumbles happen.

I think it simply goes back to the utilization of certain players.

I would still like to see more Marvin Jones and Sanu, but that thought is obviously made from the seat in my living room.

There's a chance I could be off...

[volcom69]

All I'm saying is yesterday this offense was bad because the WR could not get off man coverage. There were a couple times where Dalton was late in his throws, and also missed wide open guys because he was trying to force it into Green. I just hope he dosnt lose faith in the other guys other wise this offense will struggle. I'm not saying its going to be like this every week but they do need to play better. Thought with all of Miami injuries in the backfield they could have taken chances.

I still think this is the best o-line we have had in sometime, but like Lap says they need to play lower. They are playing so high just getting pushed back at this point. Still think the easiest thing to do is get a fast shifty back, but looks like bengals are happy with what they have.

[BengalByTheBay]

If it is, then it's only slightly worse.

Then I give you, Ryan Williams.

/>http://www.nfl.com/player/ryanwilliams/2495474/profile

As much as anything, Green-Ellis is almost identical to what they had with Benson last season. A tradeoff. Nothing better, nothing worse.

[HoosierCat]

I really don't understand you guys. The passing game has been amazing all year. One bad game and you're ready to call it a big problem?

Passing game didn't exactly light it up in Baltimore, either. Jax was a good day, but nothing spectacular. Basically they've had two good days, two bad days and a middling day. There are a few issues IMHO:

They are horrible passing on third down (as part of the team being horrible on third down period this year)

Dalton is throwing too many picks. He's currently tied for 6th. Yes, there's like 6 other QBs in that tie, but the trend bites.

Green doesn't have a complement. He needs a Housh or at least a Henry: someone who will burn the other team if they pay too much attention to A.J. It looked to me that they were trying to make Hawkins that guy against Miami (which seemed to follow them trying to make Tate the guy in the opener and then Binns since).

[volcom69]

I really don't understand you guys. The passing game has been amazing all year. One bad game and you're ready to call it a big problem?

Passing game didn't exactly light it up in Baltimore, either. Jax was a good day, but nothing spectacular. Basically they've had two good days, two bad days and a middling day. There are a few issues IMHO:

They are horrible passing on third down (as part of the team being horrible on third down period this year)

Dalton is throwing too many picks. He's currently tied for 6th. Yes, there's like 6 other QBs in that tie, but the trend bites.

Green doesn't have a complement. He needs a Housh or at least a Henry: someone who will burn the other team if they pay too much attention to A.J. It looked to me that they were trying to make Hawkins that guy against Miami (which seemed to follow them trying to make Tate the guy in the opener and then Binns since).

Yes 3rd down has been horrible so far this year, i think a good running game would help this out, or maybe more screen passes, kind of like you would see in a WCO. Daltons picks do bother me, the one yesterday cost this team a score, he has thrown at least one in each game this year, that needs to stop. In fact all turnovers need to stop. I still wonder how much Coyle on the other side really knew what the bengals were going to run? He probably knows Marvin inside and out, and knew what was going on.

[skyline]

I really don't understand you guys. The passing game has been amazing all year. One bad game and you're ready to call it a big problem?

Passing game didn't exactly light it up in Baltimore, either. Jax was a good day, but nothing spectacular. Basically they've had two good days, two bad days and a middling day. There are a few issues IMHO:

They are horrible passing on third down (as part of the team being horrible on third down period this year)

Dalton is throwing too many picks. He's currently tied for 6th. Yes, there's like 6 other QBs in that tie, but the trend bites.

Green doesn't have a complement. He needs a Housh or at least a Henry: someone who will burn the other team if they pay too much attention to A.J. It looked to me that they were trying to make Hawkins that guy against Miami (which seemed to follow them trying to make Tate the guy in the opener and then Binns since).

I thought the offense was perfectly fine against Baltimore. They fell behind thanks to some pathetic D, started to press, and the wheels fell off.

I completely agree about the third down issues. I just don't think the 2nd receiver is the problem. Dalton has more than enough options in those situations.

I hate to say it, but has anyone thought to look at Golden Boy Gruden for answers? He's a part of this offense and I feel that when it comes to 3rd down there's plenty of blame to go around. Receivers not getting open, Dalton not hitting them consistently when they do, and perhaps even the wrong plays being called in the first place.

[HoosierCat]

I hate to say it, but has anyone thought to look at Golden Boy Gruden for answers?

Oh, I agree. I thought the game plan for Miami was very bland and uninspired, and Hawkins in particular didn't seem well-used. Gresh played about every snap but spent most of the night pretending to be an o-lineman. That seems like a waste. If we are going to have a blocking TE on the roster like Quinn can we at least get one who is healthy (paging Colin Cochart...). Overall I think the ball needs to come out quicker, too. Some of that is probably Andy but it felt like Sideshow Bob was back and every play they were looking for a bomb.

[volcom69]

I hate to say it, but has anyone thought to look at Golden Boy Gruden for answers?

Oh, I agree. I thought the game plan for Miami was very bland and uninspired, and Hawkins in particular didn't seem well-used. Gresh played about every snap but spent most of the night pretending to be an o-lineman. That seems like a waste. If we are going to have a blocking TE on the roster like Quinn can we at least get one who is healthy (paging Colin Cochart...). Overall I think the ball needs to come out quicker, too. Some of that is probably Andy but it felt like Sideshow Bob was back and every play they were looking for a bomb.

Oh you mean like those 3rd and shorts, and they go 15 yards down the field??? I never understand that play get those 2 yards and live to play the next down.

I would love to see more of the WCO with screens to Hawkins or even runs with him.

[ArmyBengal]

Lost in this is the fact the front 7 of the Dolphins is very good.

Not to mention their DC (Coyle) was very familiar with what it is the Bengals do on offense.

Acknowledging the fact our o-line still has much work to do, wouldn't it stand to say much of what happened in that game was due to the Dolphins front 7 beating our guys, or at a minimum, puting pressure on Dalton ??

The run game stalling, the WR's not having enough time to get open, everything.

You could argue that's why Dalton has to get rid of the ball faster, but how will that fix anything when he's getting pressure so fast, the WR's haven't gotten to a particular spot in their route ??

Agree 3rd down needs to VASTLY improve if they plan on beating the Steelers and Ravens, let alone any other of the better teams on the schedule. Dalton also needs to be more aware of throwing the ball away, as opposed to taking sacks when outside the box.

Very few seriously thought we would see better than 8-8 this season, so is this really a surprise to those people ??

[Sea Ray]

If it is, then it's only slightly worse.

Then I give you, Ryan Williams.

/>http://www.nfl.com/player/ryanwilliams/2495474/profile

As much as anything, Green-Ellis is almost identical to what they had with Benson last season. A tradeoff. Nothing better, nothing worse.

Yes, he is also out for the year with a shoulder injury

The Bengals counted on Scott to be that guy but they didn't count on all his injuries this year

[GapControl]

It seems it is a lot more difficult for me to tell exactly what is happening pre-snap in today`s TV NFL. The networks zoom in on the sidelines and the player faces so much that I struggle to see the defensive line ups before the snap. Example: what are the safeties doing, where is the MLB, are the corners pressed or zone... And sometimes the angle is off just enough on TV that I can only see the front seven for both teams and have to wait for the replay (if it comes) to see how the secondary had lined up pre-snap. Maybe it is me, but I would prefer higher shots so i can see the play.

Anyway, I digress...

My point is that the NFL is now a RAY RICE League. You need that scatback type of player. I blame the run blocking on the left and the middle of the line for our running game struggles but you still need a back who can get around the edge, play in space, and create yards even without perfect blocking technique each time.

Remember Chris Perry? He filled that role for about 1 year until he crumbled like a paper sack.

I thought BScott was going to be that guy, but he could never stay healthy and did almost nothing with his opportunities when he got them.

The Law Firm has moves but he can`t bounce around an O Line and create. He needs powerful drive blocking. I dont think that is Boling, Whits, or Faines strong suit.

So, who is out there as a FA or a guy buried on a depth chart who could give us a poor man`s version of Barry Sanders for the rest of the year?

I was big on Kevin Smith a few years back.... What about Steve Slayton?

[Earendil]

Personally, I think the 3rd down issues fall squarely on the running game (or lack thereof). Whether that is because of BJGE, the o-line of a combination of both, I am not certain.

[kingwilly]

I was very interested to see if the Bengals would go after MJD. Packaging something, picks and talent, for him would have served to fill the void ther is at RB.

Now that Scott is done, and its clear an impact trade wont happen, they are right back where they thought they'd be.

I do submit that the Oline is rather dreadful at run blcoking, which amazes me. Very few backs are going to have success behind the play of these guys so far.

So what do you do?

1. Go Air Coryell/Greatest Show on Turf? I dont think Dalton has the arm for that. It takes an elite level arm for that kind of play. Rogers, Brees, Eli, Ryan, those kind of arms. That's not Dalton.

2. Play small ball - this is possible. Hem in what they are doing, kind of what we saw last weekend. Problem is the Bengals don't have the defense to win that type of game.

3. Force fit Peerman and Leonard. Getting them more involved is likely, though how Leonard will run power and Iso runs up the gut is a mystery. Peerman does have more burst than either, so maybe he can pick up the slack with some consistent touches.

There really are no street FA's worth a hoot. Probably no imact trade is coming, so look for more of the same. It will fall to Dalton, and if the WR's can play slightly above their heads more than half the time. If so, still a shot at a wildcard. If not, then start combing the draft sites for Forte/MJD/Rice type RB's.

[ArmyBengal]

I want to see them running more running back screens and find a way to get Sanu involved with the short crossing routes.

In regards to the draft, it's really spotty at the RB position in regards to that speed guy that can break it open.

Gillislee out of Florida has been looking good to this point and has nice speed for his size.