The Emperor isn't wearing any clothes

[cincyhokie]

Let's start with the obvious.

Here's some players that NEED to go but there's questions on whether they actually will:

Livings. Have no idea how he is such high favor but he needs to go before the 2012 season starts.

Crocker. Servicable, and a great teammate but his time is done. Slow, slower, and molasses. Bye.

Benson. Thanks for your contributions but you're not taking this team to the next level. Later.

Pacman. Maybe you can stick around as returner but your attitude f**king sucks, please leave.

Geathers: Thanks, bro. Time to get a difference maker at DE.

Here's some players that can stay but shouldn't start:

Rey M. Love your passion, long hair and tattoos. However, your mediocre play is now a liability. You've hit your ceiling.

Andre Smith. I like you in the run game but you're a problem in pass protection. Dalton needs time to throw. If you left the team altogether, it might be better because you shouldn't be making starter money soooo...

Jerome Simpson. Dude, your time in the spotlight was great, nice flip. Now don't show back up here unless your the 4th WR. On second thought I'll take a solid FA WR to take your place and not waste a draft pick on another...Jerome Simpson.

Now here's the tough subjects to deal with:

Andy Dalton. I like you. But you need a running game to be more effective. You're so advanced for a rookie that you've almost already seemingly hit your ceiling. That's scary for me to say but it needs to be said. Again, I like you but I feel like you're the next Joe Flacco. We need to get you a running game. Badly.

Gresham. You're a solid player but I hope we don't hang on to you too long for your development like Eric Kattus. Step up and play to your potential.

Leon Hall. To compete in this league and make a deep run in the playoffs we need you...as the 3rd CB. You're not a shutdown corner that we need to consistently compete with the Steelers and Ravens.

Bottom line:

The Bengals need to make some tough decisions and get rid of some of the dead weight. That includes some well liked players. Sorry, but if they're not cutting it they're a liability. Unfortunately, this team has a history of hanging onto players too long.

This team needs more PLAYMAKERS! Not solid fill players.

Want fans to come back? Make tough decisions and improve this team where it needs it to be a consistent winner. As of now, even with the potential players to be had in the draft, this is an 8-8 team. Can they make the necessary changes?

[Sea Ray]

I think what Dalton needs more than a running game is an offensive line, namely guards. Maybe this all goes hand in hand but without decent guards this team can't pass block for him or run block for RBs. I want two starting guards aquired in this off season. I'd be giddy for Decastro from Stanford. I actually think Andre Smith is a better pass blocker than run blocker.

All in all, I'd like to see two new guards and a CB either drafted early or acquired via FA. Let's face the facts here that this team is where most NFL teams are: in the mediocre middle. We had an easy schedule and rode it to a playoff game but that doesn't mean we've got much over most NFL teams.

[Scottishbengal]

I'd be wary of making too many/wholesale changes and upset any basis that could be built upon, that said, of course there should be an annual turnover of staff to some degree as players get older, become less effective, and previous draftee's begin to flourish and push for a team spot.

Firstly I'd look at what is on the depth chart and compare against the starters - anybody there who could presently do an as good, or even better, job than the starter?? (You guys in the US will have much more of a clue about this then I would)

Marvin has always declared a desire to build through the draft, and I go along with that to some degree, so let's see what the previous drafts have to offer. If a weak-spot starter can't be replaced by better through the existing roster then we should look at upgrading through FA - however Cincy has consistently failed to attract decent FA's be it due to the front office not wanting to pay the salaries, possible players not liking the city/area/region, or just players not wanting to move to an under-illustrious franchise.

I'd love to see another strong draft coupled with two or three solid additions through FA ........ only time will tell if it happens though.

[semiotter]

Well we got a lot of good picks coming from the Carson trade plus are regular pick so this might come true!!! None of us thought we would have a team this good this year. And after they did well and make the playoffs its understandable everyone is let down after a loss but the team is young and with some tweeks here and there who knows what will happen!!! Maybe Marvin should go I don't know........

[membengal]

I'd pump the brakes on getting mad at Dalton, Hokie. Jeebus. I don't know what his ceiling is either, but I don't think he's at it.

[jonahdsage]

I'd pump the brakes on getting mad at Dalton, Hokie. Jeebus. I don't know what his ceiling is either, but I don't think he's at it.

I gotta be honest—I'm pretty disappointed with the Bengal fanbase the last few weeks, especially here the morning after. At the beginning of the season everyone thought we were sunk and would be lucky to sneak out a few wins. We made it to the playoffs, sent a rookie to the pro bowl, and have a slew of guys going as alternates. To say that Dalton hit his ceiling in his rookie year with a rookie OC and our offense consisting primarily of a rookie WR is, well, nuts. This was a great season and these guys are fun to watch and root for. I think Dalton and AJ green are going to be a force next season and are nowhere near their ceilings.

We need CB help in the draft. I think our guys played solid down the stretch, but this team wasn't the same after Leon went down.

We need RB help in the draft or free agency.

We need O-line help everywhere but Tackle (I personally like Andre). I say we grab a CB with our first 1st rounder, a LB with our 2nd first rounder, then draft nothing but O-line from there on out

[derekshank]

I agree that Dalton is not at his ceiling... but it can't be denied that a running game should be a top priority next season.

Look no further than TJ Yates to see what most teams expect out of their rookie QBs. The Bengals put the ball in his hands and asked him to win. That's a ballsy move in the first place... and it magically resulted in 9 wins. But I think any honest observer knew that there was an expiration date on that plan.

Dalton only had one reliable weapon... another rookie who was dinged up and double covered. Cincy needs to add to the O-Line, add a decent RB, and get Dalton at least one more reliable receiver. If they do that, then I'll be ready to start critiquing Andy Dalton's game.

[Scottishbengal]

So, are we saying Cedric Benson is done as our feature RB?? The guy has just cracked off his 3rd consecutive +1,000 yard season. Surely an overhaul of the O-Line would be a benefit to Benson and save a FA move our high draft pick.

Benson is only 29 and I think with an improved Line and some coaching re ball security he can be our horse for another couple of years.

I'd be happy to see a back taken in the later rounds (5 and onwards) and save the higher picks for CB and O-line

[jonahdsage]

So, are we saying Cedric Benson is done as our feature RB?? The guy has just cracked off his 3rd consecutive +1,000 yard season. Surely an overhaul of the O-Line would be a benefit to Benson and save a FA move our high draft pick.

Benson is only 29 and I think with an improved Line and some coaching re ball security he can be our horse for another couple of years.

I'd be happy to see a back taken in the later rounds (5 and onwards) and save the higher picks for CB and O-line

I don't think Ced's ship has sailed. If he wants a big money contract I bet we let him walk. I'm curious to see what Cedric Peerman could do, too. My jaw dropped when I saw that Ced only rushed it 7 times yesterday.

[cincyhokie]

AJ Green is nowhere near his future potential. However, Dalton looks (and I could be wrong) to be a Joe Flacco type QB at best. Good, but not great. But don't take me the wrong way, I think this is ok. Dalton doesn't have to be Aaron Rodgers...but we'd better maximize his effectiveness and get him an awesome RB. Also, get someone opposite AJ and we can be an effective offense.

My point is this. Let's not be delusional about what Dalton "could be" and work on getting him the tools to be the best "what he is". Freaking Ray Rice was a second round pick. That gives me hope we could find someone who could change this offense.

[Scottishbengal]

just out of interest is there any site where you can see who's contract runs until when? (ie, who's contract in the NFL will be due for expiration come the off-season). I've had a look at NFL.Com but can't see anything at all, not sure if such a site exists but it could be interesting to see who may be available as FA's this summer.

[derekshank]

AJ Green is nowhere near his future potential. However, Dalton looks (and I could be wrong) to be a Joe Flacco type QB at best.

What a freaking joke.

Look at the rookie QBs who have made the playoffs recently. Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Mark Sanchez... all of them were given good defenses and a strong running game.

Dalton was given one reliable WR, and that's pretty much it. Who knows what his potential is? He's only played 17 games. And he played up and down at times... like you would expect a rookie to play. But it's way too early to make proclamations about what he ceiling is.

[cincyhokie]

AJ Green is nowhere near his future potential. However, Dalton looks (and I could be wrong) to be a Joe Flacco type QB at best.

What a freaking joke.

Look at the rookie QBs who have made the playoffs recently. Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Mark Sanchez... all of them were given good defenses and a strong running game.

Dalton was given one reliable WR, and that's pretty much it. Who knows what his potential is? He's only played 17 games. And he played up and down at times... like you would expect a rookie to play. But it's way too early to make proclamations about what he ceiling is.

It's just what I am observing. I didn't say it was a fact and I always know that I could be wrong (which I have already said). Based on what I have seen, Dalton will be a good, solid QB at best but not great. There is nothing wrong with this as long as the team builds around what he is and not what they think he might be.

However, it wouldn't be completely shocking if Dalton turns out to be a Kenny Anderson type. But to get there, the Bengals have to get him certain pieces. He's not good enough to carry this team on his own.

[bwillycuse]

Plenty of room for improvement. But I think the potential is there. A full offseason, more depth to the offensive playbook, more coaching of green to improve routes, more high picks, bunch of good players coming back from injury.

can't wait.

[volcom69]

Im sorry im not giving up on A. Smith, his first year starting close to every game i think he had maybe one really bad game. I think there is alot of potential for him, so i want them to stick with him.

The running game here is pathetic! Who in there right mind expects a rookie to throw the ball over 40 times and win a game, and there have been many times where they threw it over 40 times. They need a running game bad, i wanted Dalton to throw the ball no more then 20 to 25 times, and pound the ball the rest of the way, but that didnt happen. Gruden said at the start of the season, they will be running the ball alot, well whatever happened to that?? They never built this team to do that, and in my mind it hurt them big time down the stretch, when they faced these really good teams! I want to see Dalton under a better o-line and running game!

Defense in my mind needs a huge upgrade, and starting with the DC, Zimmer can go and i wont be upset! Year after year his defenses start out great only to finish weak. When will they start being consistant, they know stoping the run was the biggest thing they could do but yet they failed to do so. Something needs to be done more pass rushers, better secondary, Rey needs to pick up his game big time, so many holes to fill!

[cincyhokie]

Rey needs to pick up his game big time.

This is what needs to change. We need to recognize NOW that Rey is not a starting LB and make a change. Not give him another 3 years to come around. Need a playmaker at MLB. Not a body.

[volcom69]

Rey needs to pick up his game big time.

This is what needs to change. We need to recognize NOW that Rey is not a starting LB and make a change. Not give him another 3 years to come around. Need a playmaker at MLB. Not a body.

Yea to many times i have seen this year where he cant get off blocks. Rey right now is all about his name, and i truly hope he somehow turns it around, because i really like the guy. I dont know whats holding him back, or if he is just not very good.

Thomas Howard i really like that guy, and hope he is the starter next year. He seems to cover better then anyother bengal LB.

In someways im hoping that jack del rio comes in here either as DC or maybe LB coach or something. I think something on the defense has to change. How do they start out so great, but in the end always just suck. Begining of the year they only gave up 1 100 yard running game, but i think in the last 6 games they gave up 6 of them. What the hell happened!

[cincyhokie]

Yea to many times i have seen this year where he cant get off blocks. Rey right now is all about his name, and i truly hope he somehow turns it around, because i really like the guy. I dont know whats holding him back, or if he is just not very good.

2012 should be Rey's last contract year. He'll get another shot at the starting role and the team should go from there. Also, Muckleroy will be back healthy to push him for that starting spot.

[derekshank]

It's just what I am observing. I didn't say it was a fact and I always know that I could be wrong (which I have already said). Based on what I have seen, Dalton will be a good, solid QB at best but not great.

And what I'm saying is that it's not a fair observation.

Dalton didn't have a full offseason with the coaches... and was asked to do far more than any recent playoff rookie QB of note.

Matt Ryan threw the ball 27.1 times/game (434 attempts in 16 games)

Joe Flacco threw the ball 26.7 times/game (428 attempts in 16 games)

Mark Sanchez threw the ball 24.2 times/game (364 in 15 games)

Ben Roethlisberger threw the ball 21.1 times/game (295 in 14 games)

Andy Dalton, however, was asked to throw the ball 32.3 times/game (516 in 16 games)

In addition, the Falcons ran the ball 560 times for 2443 yards in '08.

The Ravens ran the ball 592 times for 2376 yards in '08.

The Jets ran the ball 608 times for 2756 yards in '09.

The Steelers tan the ball 618 times for 2484 yards in '04.

The Bengals, however, only ran the ball 455 times for 1778 yards this season.

The Bengals are the only team to make the playoffs in recent memory with a rookie QB who was asked to throw more often than handoff... and with a running game that managed fewer than 2,000 yards. In fact... Matt Ryan is the closest comparison, and the Falcons gained 665 more rushing yards than the Bengals did this year... and Matt Ryan only threw the ball 44% of the plays the Falcons ran, compared to Andy Dalton throwing 53% of the Bengals plays.

Your observation should have been that Dalton was asked to do far more than he should have... and given the circumstances, performed at a much higher level than anyone could have predicted. To suggest that you know what his ceiling looks like after only 17 games is laughable.

[volcom69]

It's just what I am observing. I didn't say it was a fact and I always know that I could be wrong (which I have already said). Based on what I have seen, Dalton will be a good, solid QB at best but not great.

And what I'm saying is that it's not a fair observation.

Dalton didn't have a full offseason with the coaches... and was asked to do far more than any recent playoff rookie QB of note.

Matt Ryan threw the ball 27.1 times/game (434 attempts in 16 games)

Joe Flacco threw the ball 26.7 times/game (428 attempts in 16 games)

Mark Sanchez threw the ball 24.2 times/game (364 in 15 games)

Ben Roethlisberger threw the ball 21.1 times/game (295 in 14 games)

Andy Dalton, however, was asked to throw the ball 32.3 times/game (516 in 16 games)

In addition, the Falcons ran the ball 560 times for 2443 yards in '08.

The Ravens ran the ball 592 times for 2376 yards in '08.

The Jets ran the ball 608 times for 2756 yards in '09.

The Steelers tan the ball 618 times for 2484 yards in '04.

The Bengals, however, only ran the ball 455 times for 1778 yards this season.

The Bengals are the only team to make the playoffs in recent memory with a rookie QB who was asked to throw more often than handoff... and with a running game that managed fewer than 2,000 yards. In fact... Matt Ryan is the closest comparison, and the Falcons gained 665 more rushing yards than the Bengals did this year... and Matt Ryan only threw the ball 44% of the plays the Falcons ran, compared to Andy Dalton throwing 53% of the Bengals plays.

Your observation should have been that Dalton was asked to do far more than he should have... and given the circumstances, performed at a much higher level than anyone could have predicted. To suggest that you know what his ceiling looks like after only 17 games is laughable.

Thats horrible he should have never had to throw it that much. Makes me wonder i know we struggled to run the ball but did Gruden just give up on running it, or does Gruden like to pass it more. I just remember Gruden saying they were going to be a running team?

I wonder if this will help or hurt Dalton, i think it can only help him. Give him more weapons, and some help with a running game, have him throw it 20-25 times a game, i think he will be just fine!

[derekshank]

Thats horrible he should have never had to throw it that much.

I look at it as a positive. The Bengals were a severely flawed football team, and found a decent amount of success despite those flaws.

If the Bengals can add a running game, and by extension get an effective playaction, Dalton may be even better than we thought. Improve the O-Line and add a franchise RB... and Dalton just might flourish into a franchise QB.

[cincyhokie]

It's just what I am observing. I didn't say it was a fact and I always know that I could be wrong (which I have already said). Based on what I have seen, Dalton will be a good, solid QB at best but not great.

And what I'm saying is that it's not a fair observation.

Dalton didn't have a full offseason with the coaches... and was asked to do far more than any recent playoff rookie QB of note.

Matt Ryan threw the ball 27.1 times/game (434 attempts in 16 games)

Joe Flacco threw the ball 26.7 times/game (428 attempts in 16 games)

Mark Sanchez threw the ball 24.2 times/game (364 in 15 games)

Ben Roethlisberger threw the ball 21.1 times/game (295 in 14 games)

Andy Dalton, however, was asked to throw the ball 32.3 times/game (516 in 16 games)

In addition, the Falcons ran the ball 560 times for 2443 yards in '08.

The Ravens ran the ball 592 times for 2376 yards in '08.

The Jets ran the ball 608 times for 2756 yards in '09.

The Steelers tan the ball 618 times for 2484 yards in '04.

The Bengals, however, only ran the ball 455 times for 1778 yards this season.

The Bengals are the only team to make the playoffs in recent memory with a rookie QB who was asked to throw more often than handoff... and with a running game that managed fewer than 2,000 yards. In fact... Matt Ryan is the closest comparison, and the Falcons gained 665 more rushing yards than the Bengals did this year... and Matt Ryan only threw the ball 44% of the plays the Falcons ran, compared to Andy Dalton throwing 53% of the Bengals plays.

Your observation should have been that Dalton was asked to do far more than he should have... and given the circumstances, performed at a much higher level than anyone could have predicted. To suggest that you know what his ceiling looks like after only 17 games is laughable.

I understand the stats. I am looking at his tangible skill set. His arm strength and decision making. They are ok-to-good. This is based on the throws he's making, not the stats. Flacco had a similar rookie season stat wise and he's a good quarterback. But take away Ray Rice and he's not the same player. There's not too many people that are favoring the Ravens if Rice is gone.

Same thing I am seeing with Dalton. He needs a better supporting cast for this team to get better. I am not wanting to simply count on Dalton automatically "getting better" because "that's what rookie quarterbacks do". That's not always the case. I am asking the Bengals get proactive and make some key moves to get him a MUCH improved O-line and get a stud RB and another good WR.

I don't want to sit back and automatically assume that because Dalton had a good rookie season that he is the next Joe Montana. If that happens there's a better chance we end up disappointed than with the next Joe Montana. I think Dalton is a good QB but he NEEDS a much better supporting cast if this team is going to make the next level. Dalton is limited, in my opinion. But most certainly, I want him as the starting QB.

[kingwilly]

Thats horrible he should have never had to throw it that much.

I look at it as a positive. The Bengals were a severely flawed football team, and found a decent amount of success despite those flaws.

If the Bengals can add a running game, and by extension get an effective playaction, Dalton may be even better than we thought. Improve the O-Line and add a franchise RB... and Dalton just might flourish into a franchise QB.

And with this comment I now begin my campaign for them to go get Matt Forte.

He is the key missing piece on this offense.

The second missing piee is who they get for LG. To me, that would be best solved by getting Saints LG Carl Nicks.

Forte - Nicks. Now.

[cincyhokie]

Thats horrible he should have never had to throw it that much.

I look at it as a positive. The Bengals were a severely flawed football team, and found a decent amount of success despite those flaws.

If the Bengals can add a running game, and by extension get an effective playaction, Dalton may be even better than we thought. Improve the O-Line and add a franchise RB... and Dalton just might flourish into a franchise QB.

Dalton can be, at best, another Kenny Anderson. And I would take that any day of the week. I hope that it happens and that I am more wrong than right.

[derekshank]

I don't want to sit back and automatically assume that because Dalton had a good rookie season that he is the next Joe Montana.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that. But he was a rookie. His decision making and accuracy were well beyond his years... and will likely improve. Those are the two issues that rookie QBs struggle with most. Dalton already has the poise you look for... so it stands to reason that if he had plays with a better O-Line and a good RB, he will only get better.

There are no guarantees in the NFL... but it's obvious that his skills translate to the NFL quite well. He doesn't get rattled the way that Flacco does, and the areas he needs to improve are the main areas that most QBs improve with experience. There is very little evidence to suggest we're seeing him at his best.