Dalton issues

[skyline]

After having a couple of days to think about it, I guess my biggest concern here is not so much Dalton, but the offensive line. He needs more time, pure and simple.

The draft this year is going to be VERY interesting. We need defensive depth, but I could easily seem them going for an all-out offensive overhaul. o-line, running back, AND receiver anyone?

[HoosierCat]

After having a couple of days to think about it, I guess my biggest concern here is not so much Dalton, but the offensive line. He needs more time, pure and simple.

The draft this year is going to be VERY interesting. We need defensive depth, but I could easily seem them going for an all-out offensive overhaul. o-line, running back, AND receiver anyone?

My early read on next April is that it will be a very deep draft for offensive linemen. Just scrolling through the prospect rankings over at walterfootball, he's got about two dozen tackles, guards and centers (mostly tackles) with at worst rounds 2-3 grades.

The WR class looks OK, but there don't appear to be many who would be good value in the second half of the first round, which is where the Bengals will likely be picking. Pickings at RB look slim. After Richardson there's arguably no one worth a first round selection, though some are mocking Miller to the Bengals in the first (Polk in the second is popular too). Derek suggested in another thread that they might go after Michael Bush in free agency, which is an idea I like, too.

[skyline]

After having a couple of days to think about it, I guess my biggest concern here is not so much Dalton, but the offensive line. He needs more time, pure and simple.

The draft this year is going to be VERY interesting. We need defensive depth, but I could easily seem them going for an all-out offensive overhaul. o-line, running back, AND receiver anyone?

My early read on next April is that it will be a very deep draft for offensive linemen. Just scrolling through the prospect rankings over at walterfootball, he's got about two dozen tackles, guards and centers (mostly tackles) with at worst rounds 2-3 grades.

The WR class looks OK, but there don't appear to be many who would be good value in the second half of the first round, which is where the Bengals will likely be picking. Pickings at RB look slim. After Richardson there's arguably no one worth a first round selection, though some are mocking Miller to the Bengals in the first (Polk in the second is popular too). Derek suggested in another thread that they might go after Michael Bush in free agency, which is an idea I like, too.

No issues with Bush, but I still don't see him as someone with real break away potential, which is what I'm missing most with Benson. Granted, I haven't watched him too closely this season. I do see that he has a 55 yarder to his name at least.

Maybe that player just isn't available this offseason, but I'm dying to see a Bengals offense with a real big-play threat at that position, which we haven't had in a long long time.

[derekshank]

No issues with Bush, but I still don't see him as someone with real break away potential, which is what I'm missing most with Benson.

I don't NEED a RB who will break 40+ yard runs on a regular basis. Yes, it's a big-time bonus, and the elite guys do it... but it's not a must have for me.

What I'm noticing with Benson is that he seems to have lost his initial burst to hit the hole. He breaks tackles... but he is often doing so at the line of scrimmage, and getting minimal gains. Some of this is on O-Line, but at least part of it appears to be because he has lost a step.

Bernard Scott on the other hand is able to hit the hole rather quickly... but is unable to break tackles. He is almost always brought down by first contact.

Bush is built like Eddie George. He's a workhorse who wears down the defense... but not the big-play threat of Darren McFadden. Bush will run it between the tackles effectively, and is also showing himself to be very capable of catching passes out of the backfield.

He's not my first choice, or even second choice. But Trent Richardson is a pipe-dream, and I doubt Chris Polk falls to the Bengals selection in the 2nd round. Bush would be a nice get and a suitable upgrade from the current situation. He would allow the Bengals to use their draft picks elsewhere... and that's the main reason I'm interested.

[skyline]

No issues with Bush, but I still don't see him as someone with real break away potential, which is what I'm missing most with Benson.

Bush... is also showing himself to be very capable of catching passes out of the backfield.

If so, then yes, please. I'll take it.

[BengalszoneBilly]

After having a couple of days to think about it, I guess my biggest concern here is not so much Dalton, but the offensive line. He needs more time, pure and simple.

The draft this year is going to be VERY interesting. We need defensive depth, but I could easily seem them going for an all-out offensive overhaul. o-line, running back, AND receiver anyone?

I'd like an offensive lineman and running back in that order. CB after that.

[derekshank]

After having a couple of days to think about it, I guess my biggest concern here is not so much Dalton, but the offensive line. He needs more time, pure and simple.

Most people don't notice how badly this O-Line struggles. Gruden has done a great job of minimizing the weaknesses in protection by maximizing Dalton's strength in his quick release.

Many of Dalton's throws appear to be his first read... and many times are immediately after the snap. It seems like Gruden has chosen quick decision making to cover up what is lacking on the O-Line. To his credit, it has worked rather well (at least far better than most of us predicted).

That said, it would be nice to see what Dalton is capable of if he had time to regularly check down. Most young QBs make their living on dump off passes to RBs and TEs when the first option isn't there. I'm guessing a handful of those each game would make a ton of difference in the offensive production.

[ArmyBengal]

Bush would certainly free up what most believe will take either a 1st or 2nd round pick from the Bengals.

I keep bringing up WR as well and i'm sure most would HATE that idea, but you have to consider what we currently have or will have after FA. Both Simpson and Caldwell are FA's. The one that seems to be a bigger concern is Simpson and the fact we don't seem to have anyone able to really fill his role in the WR corps and I don't want him back regardless. Caldwell plays more in the slot and they have Shipley coming back and Whalen, who the coaching staff really seems to like.

I really believe if a top WR falls in the first round, the Bengals will look long and hard at what he would bring versus another player. While it may be considered highly improbable, if a Floyd were to drop to us, how monsterous would that combination be ?? Troubled or not, that would certainly get my attention.

So if they were to get Bush for example, something like this would appeal to me.

1a. WR Floyd

1b. CB Jenkins

2. OG

3a. OT

3b. DT

Safety is another position of concern if they don't bring back Nelson who is a free agent. Crocker is not getting younger, Mays is still viewed as a project by Zimmer and Sands can't be viewed as much more. Miles, while having potential seems to be stuck in a teams role at this point. Maybe another vet safety in FA ?? I don't know...

[derekshank]

No issues with Bush, but I still don't see him as someone with real break away potential, which is what I'm missing most with Benson.

Bush... is also showing himself to be very capable of catching passes out of the backfield.

If so, then yes, please. I'll take it.

Yeah... he doesn't look the part of a pass catching RB, does he? But Bush has started the last 7 games because of McFadden's injury. In those 7 games, he has caught 24 passes for 270 yards.

Extrapolate that out for 16 games, and it would be 55 catches for 617 yards... falling just short of James Brooks' Bengal record of 54 catches for 686 yards receiving. Yeah, that'll do.

[derekshank]

I really believe if a top WR falls in the first round, the Bengals will look long and hard at what he would bring versus another player.

No doubt about it. The Bengals love drafting WRs.

That said... #2 WR is also one place Mike Brown has shown continued willingness to pay top dollar to. In fact... he willingly overpaid for the services of Coles and Bryant after Housh scoffed at the big-money contract he was offered. And T.O. was brought in when neither of those worked out. MB loves WRs... and will pay them handsomely for their services.

In other words, perhaps the most reasonable scenario involves the Bengals hitting the FA market for WRs, but addressing the majority of their other issues in the draft.

[ArmyBengal]

Absolutely Derek, I think that's why it's so hard to figure out any draft scenario at this point. Until FA gets closer and we see what the coaches say and do in regards to our own FAs, it's a crap shoot, but agree they could go that route with the WR position as well. I wouldn't complain as long as they are more reliable and run better routes than Simpson.

[Earendil]

I really believe if a top WR falls in the first round, the Bengals will look long and hard at what he would bring versus another player.

No doubt about it. The Bengals love drafting WRs.

That said... #2 WR is also one place Mike Brown has shown continued willingness to pay top dollar to. In fact... he willingly overpaid for the services of Coles and Bryant after Housh scoffed at the big-money contract he was offered. And T.O. was brought in when neither of those worked out. MB loves WRs... and will pay them handsomely for their services.

In other words, perhaps the most reasonable scenario involves the Bengals hitting the FA market for WRs, but addressing the majority of their other issues in the draft.

Are there any worthwhile #2 receivers due to hit the FA market this year?

[derekshank]

I really believe if a top WR falls in the first round, the Bengals will look long and hard at what he would bring versus another player.

No doubt about it. The Bengals love drafting WRs.

That said... #2 WR is also one place Mike Brown has shown continued willingness to pay top dollar to. In fact... he willingly overpaid for the services of Coles and Bryant after Housh scoffed at the big-money contract he was offered. And T.O. was brought in when neither of those worked out. MB loves WRs... and will pay them handsomely for their services.

In other words, perhaps the most reasonable scenario involves the Bengals hitting the FA market for WRs, but addressing the majority of their other issues in the draft.

Are there any worthwhile #2 receivers due to hit the FA market this year?

There are actually several really good WRs hitting FA.

I could see the Bengals bringing in either Robert Meachem or Mario Manningham. They are both proven, and have played well at #2 when asked... but are currently #3 on their depth charts. I assume they will be interested in finding a team where they can play a bigger role.

[HoosierCat]

Are there any worthwhile #2 receivers due to hit the FA market this year?

There's a list of FA WRs here:

/>http://www.footballsfuture.com/2012/fa/wr.html

[derekshank]

Kirkendall just tweeted that according to PFFs grading system, only 3 WRs in the entire NFL have a lower grade than Caldwell. Only 5 have a lower grade than Simpson.

I knew it would be bad... but I didn't know it was THAT bad.

Any more questions about why Andy Dalton doesn't spread the ball around more?

[ArmyBengal]

Colston and Green would be sick, but I think Meachum would be the odd man out there in New Orleans.

There are some others there, but i'm trying to remember something.

Do the teams still have another year before they have to spend up to 95% of the cap or does that go into effect for the 2012 season ?? It's not to throw out the spending habits of the Bengals as an indicator either way, but I was just curious. It would probably be cheaper to add through the draft, but the Bengals are in a position to spend if I remember correctly.

[HoosierCat]

The cap minimum doesn't kick in until 2013.

[ArmyBengal]

That's what I was thinking. Many people think the Bengals don't like to spend money even though they typically spend fairly close to the cap in the past. I'm just curious how this effects what they do.

[HoosierCat]

That's what I was thinking. Many people think the Bengals don't like to spend money even though they typically spend fairly close to the cap in the past. I'm just curious how this effects what they do.

I mentioned this on a thread on the draft board, last weekend on the CBS pregame show Charlie Casserly noted that the 2012 free agency class will be the largest ever (I forget the exact percentage he said but I think it was about 25% of all NFL players), but the cap is expected to remain the same or increase only a little bit.

So we'll see even more guys than last year chasing about the same pile of cash. That makes for a buyer's market. I expect there will be a bunch of big deals right out of the gate as guys try to grab a piece of the pie before it dries up (and as per usual I don't expect the Bengals to participate) and then there will be this huge bargain market. Look for a lot more of those 1-year deals they did last year as guys hope to score in 2013. The Bengals ought to be able to find some help there.

[Sea Ray]

You're absolutely right that MB does value #2 WRs. It will be addressed somehow before next yr. I'm more worried about him addressing the OL which has dipped below mediocre IMO

[Earendil]

Are there any worthwhile #2 receivers due to hit the FA market this year?

There are actually several really good WRs hitting FA.

I could see the Bengals bringing in either Robert Meachem or Mario Manningham. They are both proven, and have played well at #2 when asked... but are currently #3 on their depth charts. I assume they will be interested in finding a team where they can play a bigger role.

I would take Meachem in a heartbeat...

[volcom69]

I worry about them not addressing the o-line much if at all. This has been the same o-line since 09, you would think they could see that they are not very good, but yet they continue to go with the same guys. So i just hope they see that after this year, the o-line is a problem that needs to be fixed!

[Spor_tees]

Give me Reggie Wayne. He already is saying he will be gone in Indy on PFT.

[cHaD711Johnson]

Give me Reggie Wayne. He already is saying he will be gone in Indy on PFT.

No interest in adding a 33 year old Wideout. Rather see us draft a guy.

[Spor_tees]

Give me Reggie Wayne. He already is saying he will be gone in Indy on PFT.

No interest in adding a 33 year old Wideout. Rather see us draft a guy.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love Floyd or Toon, but Wayne is the type of veteran presence that would help this team along like Clements did for the defense.