Buffalo Bills Fan Here...

[HairOnFire]

Shipley has proven more in his one year than Caldwell has in 4.

He's proven what, exactly?

Shipley may not have the stain of outright failure upon him like Gresham currently does but he seemed no more capable of producing a big play whenever it mattered most. In fact, just as it is with Gresham, it isn't the number of catches made that tell the real story here. It's the amount of bang gotten in return.

For example, exactly what did the Bengals get in return from the combined 104 receptions produced by Shipley and Gresham last season? How many game winning receptions did the two combine to make? Or scaling back a bit, how many truly important plays did the two combine to make? And finally, how many plays did the two combine to make that couldn't have been made just as easily by others, including players already on the roster? A handful at most, right? In fact, wasn't Shipley's production from the slot almost identical to Caldwell's?

Yeah, I know. This year was going to be different. But sadly, it hasn't turned out that way. In fact, Gresham sucks as badly as he ever has and Shipley was an invisible man even before being injured.

[insert Brid Picture]

[bwillycuse]

Shipley has proven more in his one year than Caldwell has in 4.

He's proven what, exactly?

Shipley may not have the stain of outright failure upon him like Gresham currently does but he seemed no more capable of producing a big play whenever it mattered most. In fact, just as it is with Gresham, it isn't the number of catches made that tell the real story here. It's the amount of bang gotten in return.

For example, exactly what did the Bengals get in return from the combined 104 receptions produced by Shipley and Gresham last season? How many game winning receptions did the two combine to make? Or scaling back a bit, how many truly important plays did the two combine to make? And finally, how many plays did the two combine to make that couldn't have been made just as easily by others, including players already on the roster? A handful at most, right? In fact, wasn't Shipley's production from the slot almost identical to Caldwell's?

Yeah, I know. This year was going to be different. But sadly, it hasn't turned out that way. In fact, Gresham sucks as badly as he ever has and Shipley was an invisible man even before being injured.

[insert Brid Picture]

Caldwell has 2 maybe three big catches in his career.(Balt, Pitt) His YPC is and has been dismal. Cant remember a play where he actually runs after the catch. I heard he had good speed somewhere.

Caldwell fumbled no less than 2 kickoff returns to directly contribute to losing the Oakland and Cleveland games in years past. That erases 2 of his big catches.

I don't want to bash Caldwell, because he looks solid so far this year, but he is Captain Invisible in most games he has played.

Gresham and Shipley have both had critical third down catches in their first 18 games. Gresham has a hell of a TD catch already this year. I agree he hasn't really played very well, but he hasn't been terrible either.

Shipley in the 2 games he played was pretty non-existent. I haven't rewatched those games to see why. But in the games he has played - he was much more of a factor than Caldwell.

Oh and Whitworth had more TD receptions than Caldwell last year.

And looking at stats - Gresham is in top 12 in the league for TD and receptions and top 18 for yards for TEs. With a rookie QB to boot. No, he isn't pro bowl caliber, but in relation to the rest of the teams offensive output, I dont think he is performing as poorly as you suggest.

What I have noticed though so far is that the short middle of the field hasn't gotten many passes thrown to. I dont know if there is no one open, or if QB isn't looking there.

[HoosierCat]

[insert Brid Picture]

[HairOnFire]

Shipley in the 2 games he played was pretty non-existent. I haven't rewatched those games to see why. But in the games he has played - he was much more of a factor than Caldwell.

Again, proving what? Last season Shipley was given the slot role Caldwell had played the year before and produced almost identical stats. Meanwhile, Caldwell mostly sat unused until being shifted outside at seasons end...where he promptly ripped it up. So beyond proving how the production from the slot position remained the same regardless of who manned it I'm not sure what Shipley managed to prove last season.

And as for this season we agree Shipley was non-existent before being injured. And that fact alone makes a mockery of any suggestion that Shipley might have exploited the Bill's defense in the same manner Wes Welker just did. In fact, like most of the Bengals young recievers Jordan Shipley was struggling to make any impact at all.

[HairOnFire]

[insert Brid Picture]

Hey Hoosier, remember when you used to write stuff instead of lamely posting stupid pictures like some retarded version of Black Jesus?

Because I don't.

[bwillycuse]

Shipley in the 2 games he played was pretty non-existent. I haven't rewatched those games to see why. But in the games he has played - he was much more of a factor than Caldwell.

Again, proving what? Last season Shipley was given the slot role Caldwell had played the year before and produced almost identical stats. Meanwhile, Caldwell mostly sat unused until being shifted outside at seasons end...where he promptly ripped it up. So beyond proving how the production from the slot position remained the same regardless of who manned it I'm not sure what Shipley managed to prove last season.

And as for this season we agree Shipley was non-existent before being injured. And that fact alone makes a mockery of any suggestion that Shipley might have exploited the Bill's defense in the same manner Wes Welker just did. In fact, like most of the Bengals young receivers Jordan Shipley was struggling to make any impact at all.

Well, Yeah. you are right there. I wasn't really defending the point that Shipley would have torn up Buffalo's defense. I don't know this offense yet. Just that I was very pleased with Shipley's rookie season vs Caldwell's rookie and sophomore seasons.

I'm bummed Shipley is out for the year.

I'm excited that Caldwell seems to be picking up steam.

Hard for me to judge this offense with new OC and QB. Very vanilla. I keep telling myself that we are 3 weeks in and its a rebuilding year. etc.

I think this weeks game is very important for the team confidence. We laid an egg last week. Can we score a couple few td's this week? Or is the offense just that far behind?

[cincyhokie]

And that fact alone makes a mockery of any suggestion that Shipley might have exploited the Bill's defense in the same manner Wes Welker just did. In fact, like most of the Bengals young recievers Jordan Shipley was struggling to make any impact at all.

Jesus, man. I didn't say that Shipley ever equaled Welker. However, I did notice that Welker had 217 yards against the Bills. In the slot. I happen to believe that Shipley could have had a big role in the Bengals...I don't know...converting 3rd downs this Sunday???? So we differ in opinions. Big whoop. I really had no idea that a simple comment/opinion could have spurred a page long debate on Jordan Shipley and Jermaine Gresham, who I didn't even mention.

[HoosierCat]

I really had no idea that a simple comment/opinion could have spurred a page long debate on Jordan Shipley and Jermaine Gresham, who I didn't even mention.

You really don't know

very well, then.

[HairOnFire]

I really had no idea that a simple comment/opinion could have spurred a page long debate on Jordan Shipley and Jermaine Gresham, who I didn't even mention.

You really don't know

very well, then.

Here's what I know. Recently your contributions to all threads seems limited to posting articles others have written or the occasional crayon drawing or photo lifted from PhotoBucket.

Frankly, none of that makes you completely worthless, just mostly worthless.

[HairOnFire]

Well, Yeah. you are right there. I wasn't really defending the point that Shipley would have torn up Buffalo's defense.

Was that so hard?

[Spor_tees]

Why is everyone yelling!??!!?

Loud noises!!!!!

[HairOnFire]

Jesus, man. I didn't say that Shipley ever equaled Welker. However, I did notice that Welker had 217 yards against the Bills. In the slot. I happen to believe that Shipley could have had a big role in the Bengals...I don't know...converting 3rd downs this Sunday???? So we differ in opinions. Big whoop. I really had no idea that a simple comment/opinion could have spurred a page long debate on Jordan Shipley and Jermaine Gresham, who I didn't even mention.

A couple of points.

Why do you guys get to compare the production of the slot reciever in New England's offense when none of you think it's appropriate for me to compare the Bengals TE production to either of the Pats TE's? Is the Pat's offensive scheme comparable to Cincy's or isn't it?

Plus, there's no opportunity for a page long debate about Shipley unless you imply Shipley might have gone off against the Bills in exactly the same types of ways he hasn't managed to go off on any team yet....with the possible exception of an Atlanta team that beat Cincy last season.

Last, I mentioned Gresham for the same reason I discounted the idea that Shipley could have done a fraction of what Welker accomplished. Gresham isn't ready to be featured. In fact, as Gresham himself admitted....he's hurting the team right now. (His words.)

The funny thing is Gresham IS hurting the team right now, but only he can say such things openly. If others attempt to point out the obvious we're quickly branded as haters by the lovers of sacred cows. And that would be fine if the lovers could be bothered with backing their claims. Instead, they say nothing.

Or they post bird pictures.

[HairOnFire]

Why is everyone yelling!??!!?

I can't speak for others, but I'm yelling because none of you are close enough to be punched in the throat.

[Spor_tees]

Why is everyone yelling!??!!?

I can't speak for others, but I'm yelling because none of you are close enough to be punched in the throat.

[cincyhokie]

Jesus, man. I didn't say that Shipley ever equaled Welker. However, I did notice that Welker had 217 yards against the Bills. In the slot. I happen to believe that Shipley could have had a big role in the Bengals...I don't know...converting 3rd downs this Sunday???? So we differ in opinions. Big whoop. I really had no idea that a simple comment/opinion could have spurred a page long debate on Jordan Shipley and Jermaine Gresham, who I didn't even mention.

A couple of points.

Why do you guys get to compare the production of the slot reciever in New England's offense when none of you think it's appropriate for me to compare the Bengals TE production to either of the Pats TE's? Is the Pat's offensive scheme comparable to Cincy's or isn't it?

Plus, there's no opportunity for a page long debate about Shipley unless you imply Shipley might have gone off against the Bills in exactly the same types of ways he hasn't managed to go off on any team yet....with the possible exception of an Atlanta team that beat Cincy last season.

Last, I mentioned Gresham for the same reason I discounted the idea that Shipley could have done a fraction of what Welker accomplished. Gresham isn't ready to be featured. In fact, as Gresham himself admitted....he's hurting the team right now. (His words.)

The funny thing is Gresham IS hurting the team right now, but only he can say such things openly. If others attempt to point out the obvious we're quickly branded as haters by the lovers of sacred cows. And that would be fine if the lovers could be bothered with backing their claims. Instead, they say nothing.

Or they post bird pictures.

In other words. We have differing opinions about Shipley's contributions to the offense. You think Jermaine Gresham is underperforming. I agree with you but I think he's a part of the offense that has yet to fully develop. He'll get better, in my opinion.

[cincyhokie]

Why is everyone yelling!??!!?

I can't speak for others, but I'm yelling because none of you are close enough to be punched in the throat.

You are the most violent weed smoker I've ever known of.

[HoosierCat]

Here's what I know.

Recently your contributions to all threads seems limited to posting articles others have written or the occasional crayon drawing or photo lifted from PhotoBucket.

Frankly, none of that makes you completely worthless, just mostly worthless.

[COB]

Why is everyone yelling!??!!?

I can't speak for others, but I'm yelling because none of you are close enough to be punched in the throat.

You are the most violent weed smoker I've ever known of.

Getting strung out on reefers could make you violent. Say some bolshevik dope addict is all hopped up on reefers for a week, then suddenly he can't find his drug dealer. He has to go a few days without reefers. Then he's "jonesing" for a fix, and he robs a gas station to get money. This happens all the time.

[HairOnFire]

You are the most violent weed smoker I've ever known of.

Well, in my defense....I also do steroids.

(Ba-dink-bonk)

And speaking of jokes you have to admit the throat punching line was perfectly executed, and timed as well as any written joke can be. And while I make no claim the joke was actually funny...it's seems obvious that if you don't think the joke was funny it may be due to the joke being on you.

Or perhaps not.

The joke wasn't specific.

[HairOnFire]

Getting strung out on reefers could make you violent. Say some bolshevik dope addict is all hopped up on reefers for a week, then suddenly he can't find his drug dealer. He has to go a few days without reefers. Then he's "jonesing" for a fix, and he robs a gas station to get money. This happens all the time.

In Ohio maybe.

points/laughs

[HairOnFire]

In other words. We have differing opinions about Shipley's contributions to the offense. You think Jermaine Gresham is underperforming. I agree with you but I think he's a part of the offense that has yet to fully develop. He'll get better, in my opinion.

Of course he could get better. We all could. Hoosier especially.

But things not being fully developed is exactly what I'm talking about. It could even be argued that the Bengals passing game doesn't have a single proven weapon catching or throwing the ball. The short passing attack is suffering due to Gresham being a f**king slug, the outside passing game has been almost non-existent in two games, and the deep passing game has been decidely hit or miss. More specifically, it only hits when the defense doesn't cover anyone, and misses absolutely everything else. And on top of that you've got Marvin Lewis playing everything very close to the vest.

So what changes if Shipely weren't injured?

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

But things not being fully developed is exactly what I'm talking about. It could even be argued that the Bengals passing game doesn't have a single proven weapon catching or throwing the ball. The short passing attack is suffering due to Gresham being a f**king slug, the outside passing game has been almost non-existent in two games, and the deep passing game has been decidely hit or miss. More specifically, it only hits when the defense doesn't cover anyone, and misses absolutely everything else. And on top of that you've got Marvin Lewis playing everything very close to the vest.

So what changes if Shipely weren't injured?

I thought you liked the Bengals WR corps this past offseason - or am I confusing you with some other roid-raging pothead?

I mean, s**t. Green looks pretty damned good so far. There's only so good the passing game is going to be when the OL doesn't do a great job of pass protection (or when Jay Gruden's blocking scheme involves strategically not blocking DEs). And the whole "rookie QB with no time to prepare" thing.

Caldwell should be able to do something useful. If they had him, Shipley, and Green - I've seen worse WR groups. It wouldn't be the first place I went to criticize.

And let's be honest - aren't you just glad the receivers know what f*cking route to run? Did you watch the Patsies game with an excessive amount of glee when TOM BRADY was throwing picks because of Chad f**king up?

So take another hit from the bong there Mr. Chong, relax, and learn to love your new WR corps.

[walzav29]

It seems to me the offense is having a hyard time finding an identity. Trying to be a power run team, and then dink and dunking with a stretch the field personel. Dalton missed a deep one to Green. I'm starting to wonder about Greshem.

[cincyhokie]

I'm sorry but there is way to much overreacting going on. Give. It. Time. We wanted Brat, Chad, and Carson gone. We have finally turned the page from that stagnant era. Give the new offense time to develop some consistency.

[COB]

I'm sorry but there is way to much overreacting going on. Give. It. Time. We wanted Brat, Chad, and Carson gone. We have finally turned the page from that stagnant era. Give the new offense time to develop some consistency.

True.