bye ced

[Spor_tees]

I really like Trent Richardson.

I would happily lead the march to draft him next year they way Hair did for A.J. Green... but I just have trouble advocating an early 1st round pick on a workhorse RB, when that type of player's shelf life is usually nearing it's end by the last year of his rookie contract.

If you don't mind me asking, does Richardson rank amongst the very best players likely to be available in the draft?

Frankly, it's way too early for me to pick a horse for next years race, but I'm fine with the idea of drafting a RB in the 1st round if the player is truly special, as I believed AJ Green was. In fact, my open disdain for drafting yet another WR is well documented, but I found myself pimping Green despite all of that precisely because I felt he was the very best player in the entire draft, but due to the positon he played wouldn't be one of the very first selected. Best, his selection allowed the Bengals to get rid of a player I no longer wanted under any circumstance, something that isn't true, at least for me, in regards to Benson.

NO NO NO. Right Tackle is more of a need than using a high draft choice on a RB. It is becoming more and more obvious that Smith does not have the foot work to pass block a speedy DE or LB. He needs to get the Leonard Davis and Robert Gallery treatment and get moved to Guard. Like I said earlier, I would be happy to get Michael Dyer out of Auburn in the second round. The Bengals have had some success with RB's out of Auburn except Kenny Irons. Rudi and James Brooks isn't too bad!

[skyline]

Seems like most scoring drives are more pass oriented than run oriented.

To be exact, 8 of the scoring drives have favored more passing plays, 5 of them have featured more running plays, and 4 of them have been equal.

The difference is not astronomical, nor does it really mean very much. It doesn't give any insight as to whether where we were playing with a lead or playing from behind. It doesn't take into account anything regarding what the opposing defense was doing. It also doesn't take into account non-scoring drives which might indicate in certain games that the run simply wasn't working, which is why we reverted to the pass, etc.

In other words:

*shrug*

It also doesn't take into account the defense we are playing against. There may be weeks it makes sense to run 40 times a game because a run defense sucks. May be weeks we ask Red Velvet to throw 40 times because of a weak secondary. Just not a fan of demanding a vanilla set game plan for all occasions.

See there is the rub. Basically the team told the fans that they were going to be a run heavy team...

Is that really what they said? I think that's the fan interpretation.

My impression throughout the preseason was that they were commited to the run in the sense that they wouldn't just quit running the for no apparent reason. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to aim for a certain percentage of run plays v. pass plays.

It would be ridiculous to ignore what the opposing defense is doing and to run the ball no matter what. Yes, you want to keep running it here and there to keep the defense honest, but if the defense is going to give you opportunities in the passing game, then you're stupid not to take them.

[derekshank]

If you don't mind me asking, does Richardson rank amongst the very best players likely to be available in the draft?

At this point, if Richardson comes out, I expect him to rank as a top 5 prospect... but likely won't go that high because of the position he plays, and the reasons I mentioned for being hesitant myself to make that pick.

He's a power running back in the mold of Maurice Jones-Drew, but with elite speed and is a much more viable weapon catching passes out of the backfield. I don't know much about him as a blocker... but given the way he plays, I'm betting he's willing and able.

But overall... yeah. I'd say he's up near the top of the list of blue-chippers.

[HairOnFire]

As for 2009 v. 2010, how about 2010 v. 2011? I haven't heard any complaints this season about them using the shotgun on third-and-short, or trying to force-feed wide receivers or lining up in empty-backfield sets. All of these issues were offered up as examples of how they weren't committed to the run last season, and apparently they've all disappeared now.

That's exactly the point. Those things have indeed disappeared for the most part. In fact, despite featuring different players the Bengals overwhelmingly use two TE formations this season with a steady dose of FB thrown in for good measure. Empty backfields are a rarity. WR heavy packages can still be seen when circumstances dictate it, bit gone are the days of endless 4 and 5 WR sets.

Frankly, I doubt anyone wrote more about the love of the grind than I did last season or the season before, but things change. And as much as I still favor the grind I've found myself advocating more passing this season precisely because I believe Dalton can't thrive or survive until he's capable of making chunk plays in the passing game. Because justified or not, defenses simply don't respect his arm strength the same way they did with Palmer. Opposing defenses that crowd the box to shut down the Bengals passing game too often find themselves perfectly positioned to stop a predominantly short passing game....including the oft-mentioned screen passes.

IMHO there's nothing this offense needs more right now than better accuracy from Dalton, more hard outs to Green, more seam routes for Gresham, and a steady diet of sluggo patterns featuring Green, Simpson, and Caldwell. As for Benson and the running game? Sorry, you just can't thrive in the red zone running behind the likes of Gresham, as proven on the first drives in both the Cleveland and Buffalo games. Try that too often and you'll find yourself settling for three everytime, something all of you complain about loudly but few of you are willing to acknowledge why it keeps happening.

But I digress.

[derekshank]

For my part... I guess I just like boring.

In 2009 this offense functioned the way it did out of necessity. Lots of guys got hurt, and the only real option they had was to line up a bunch of meat-heads and stubbornly run the s**t out of the ball.

It seems to me that they now have receiving options that would allow them to continue to have that mentality, but occasionally throw the ball successfully as well.

I guess I just like it when my football team wins games because they are flat out tougher than the opposition. That's the kind of football I get the most enjoyment from. I admit, it's just my preference. I would prefer running the ball behind big fat guys for 3 or 4 yards as often as possible, with the occasional jump ball to A.J. Green just to keep the defense honest. But alas... that's not very West Coasty... and I don't expect it them to do it that way.

But I do feel compelled to say that the last time the Bengals did so in conjunction with a top notch defense, I watched the Bengals play a game in January.

Just Sayin'

[Spor_tees]

For my part... I guess I just like boring.

In 2009 this offense functioned the way it did out of necessity. Lots of guys got hurt, and the only real option they had was to line up a bunch of meat-heads and stubbornly run the s**t out of the ball.

It seems to me that they now have receiving options that would allow them to continue to have that mentality, but occasionally throw the ball successfully as well.

I guess I just like it when my football team wins games because they are flat out tougher than the opposition. That's the kind of football I get the most enjoyment from. I admit, it's just my preference. I would prefer running the ball behind big fat guys for 3 or 4 yards as often as possible, with the occasional jump ball to A.J. Green just to keep the defense honest. But alas... that's not very West Coasty... and I don't expect it them to do it that way.

But I do feel compelled to say that the last time the Bengals did so in conjunction with a top notch defense, I watched the Bengals play a game in January.

Just Sayin'

If you are going to say that, then I can say both times the Bengals were in the Superbowl, they were running a West Coast offense or a variation of.

Difference being, the 1988 team did have some pass plays that stretched the field with Brown and McGee, and they used the 'sugar huddle.'

[derekshank]

If you are going to say that, then I can say both times the Bengals were in the Superbowl, they were running a West Coast offense or a variation of.

I'm not sure that making reference to a different era in football history (during the invention of the West Coast offense) makes a very strong argument... but yes. You can say that.

[cHaD711Johnson]

I really like Trent Richardson.

I would happily lead the march to draft him next year they way Hair did for A.J. Green... but I just have trouble advocating an early 1st round pick on a workhorse RB, when that type of player's shelf life is usually nearing it's end by the last year of his rookie contract.

If you don't mind me asking, does Richardson rank amongst the very best players likely to be available in the draft?

Frankly, it's way too early for me to pick a horse for next years race, but I'm fine with the idea of drafting a RB in the 1st round if the player is truly special, as I believed AJ Green was. In fact, my open disdain for drafting yet another WR is well documented, but I found myself pimping Green despite all of that precisely because I felt he was the very best player in the entire draft, but due to the positon he played wouldn't be one of the very first selected. Best, his selection allowed the Bengals to get rid of a player I no longer wanted under any circumstance, something that isn't true, at least for me, in regards to Benson.

NO NO NO. Right Tackle is more of a need than using a high draft choice on a RB. It is becoming more and more obvious that Smith does not have the foot work to pass block a speedy DE or LB. He needs to get the Leonard Davis and Robert Gallery treatment and get moved to Guard. Like I said earlier, I would be happy to get Michael Dyer out of Auburn in the second round. The Bengals have had some success with RB's out of Auburn except Kenny Irons. Rudi and James Brooks isn't too bad!

Not sure if you really follow CFB, because Dyer is a sophomore.

With that said Hair, Richardson will be one of the most talented players in the draft bar none. This draft will also have a few QBs and WRs go high. Michael Floyd, Justin Blackmon, Alshon Jeffry are all 1st Round WRs that will go off the board early on.

[HairOnFire]

With that said Hair, Richardson will be one of the most talented players in the draft bar none. This draft will also have a few QBs and WRs go high. Michael Floyd, Justin Blackmon, Alshon Jeffry are all 1st Round WRs that will go off the board early on.

For the record I do know who Richardson is and I'm pretty familiar with his skill level. But I have no idea how the top of next years draft will shake out in regards to player rankings or where the Bengals will find themselves drafting. Thus, nobody is jumping out at me in the same way that AJ Green did last year.

Let's face it, I pimped that guy from day one and never found any valid reason to reconsider.

[Spor_tees]

Yeah I know Michael Dyer is a Sophomore but this is his second year so he would be eligible for the draft after this year. Given recent history and how lots of young guys leave early if they are going to be a first-third round pick, that's why I mentioned him.

Now one thing might change the amount of guys who come out early is the new CBA. With a rookie wage scale, more guys might stay in college longer until they can max out their position in the draft.

[cHaD711Johnson]

Yeah I know Michael Dyer is a Sophomore but this is his second year so he would be eligible for the draft after this year. Given recent history and how lots of young guys leave early if they are going to be a first-third round pick, that's why I mentioned him.

Now one thing might change the amount of guys who come out early is the new CBA. With a rookie wage scale, more guys might stay in college longer until they can max out their position in the draft.

...You have to be 3 year removed from college to enter the draft. 2nd Year Sophomores can not enter the NFL Draft, champ.

[Spor_tees]

Yeah I know Michael Dyer is a Sophomore but this is his second year so he would be eligible for the draft after this year. Given recent history and how lots of young guys leave early if they are going to be a first-third round pick, that's why I mentioned him.

Now one thing might change the amount of guys who come out early is the new CBA. With a rookie wage scale, more guys might stay in college longer until they can max out their position in the draft.

...You have to be 3 year removed from college to enter the draft. 2nd Year Sophomores can not enter the NFL Draft, champ.

I forgot they are eligible after a redshirt sophomore season not a true sophomore season. Oh well, still draft the stud RT and then wait until 2013 to get Dyer.

If anything, recent years have shown that free agent running backs can come in and contribute. Look at the Michael Turners and Tim Hightowers of the league.

[jjakq27]

For my part... I guess I just like boring.

In 2009 this offense functioned the way it did out of necessity. Lots of guys got hurt, and the only real option they had was to line up a bunch of meat-heads and stubbornly run the s**t out of the ball.

It seems to me that they now have receiving options that would allow them to continue to have that mentality, but occasionally throw the ball successfully as well.

I guess I just like it when my football team wins games because they are flat out tougher than the opposition. That's the kind of football I get the most enjoyment from. I admit, it's just my preference. I would prefer running the ball behind big fat guys for 3 or 4 yards as often as possible, with the occasional jump ball to A.J. Green just to keep the defense honest. But alas... that's not very West Coasty... and I don't expect it them to do it that way.

But I do feel compelled to say that the last time the Bengals did so in conjunction with a top notch defense, I watched the Bengals play a game in January.

Just Sayin'

If you are going to say that, then I can say both times the Bengals were in the Superbowl, they were running a West Coast offense or a variation of.

Difference being, the 1988 team did have some pass plays that stretched the field with Brown and McGee, and they used the 'sugar huddle.'

The defense was probably higher ranked when Hank Bullough was the DC in the early 80's than when LeBeau was there in 1988, even though that team had bigger names like Krumrie and Fulcher.

[Spor_tees]

But at least the 1981's Bengals defense had a player on defense worthy of the Hall of Fame in Kenny Riley.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

He is only hurting himself by making this public.

Fair enough. But that still doesn't make him wrong.

Don't let Hoosier fool you. Just because he gets a lot of carries doesn't mean the Bengals are committed to the run. What down are the running the ball on? What formation are the running the ball from?

Look at the difference between 2009 and 2010. What changed? Not the number of carries. Not the personnel. It was the commitment. Instead of a power running game, Brat decided to try and run out of 3WR and 4WR sets.

Without wasting a large quantities of time (like I did last year at this time) and going through every offensive psnap this season, it seems to me that Dalton has had most of his success from play-action and running formations on non-passing downs. In other words... when the opposing defense knows the Bengals want to run the ball, that allows the Bengals to pass the ball.

For what it's worth... I'm not a huge Benson fan. I see him as an inexpensive and adequate solution to missing out on drafting Daniel Thomas. I believe Benson is in his final season as a Bengal... and assuming they draft another adequate RB, I won't miss him. But again... that doesn't make him wrong.

The NFL game today thrives on the passing game, and uses 2-3 RB's, every single NFL team does it, and the Bengals' are FINALLY, maybe, starting to get it, seeing that they alternated, for the first time, Scott and Benson last week on the same drive (something I've been clamoring for a bit).

Benson is an idiot, a poor character who will have his earnings and career cut short due to it - the Bengals would be wise to move on from him next year at this point.

He is a very good RB to have for 15-25 carries a game if you need him, and for his own longevity, he needs to drop the ego and realize it's for his own good. He's still getting his #'s.

What an ass to say what he did, just shows you why Marvin and Brown need to quit relying on these idiots, they never, ever pan out long term and just do nothing but cause instability and distraction. It's not worth it. They haven't won s**t with any of these fools (CJ included).

[BengalPimp]

]

. In fact, despite featuring different players the Bengals overwhelmingly use two TE formations this season with a steady dose of FB thrown in for good measure. Empty backfields are a rarity. WR heavy packages can still be seen when circumstances dictate it, bit gone are the days of endless 4 and 5 WR sets.

You know, that's one thing i really like about Gruden. he is fresh and up to date. 2 TE formations are the hot in today's NFL (the past couple of seasons). You see many teams running it so effectively and on such a high percentage of their offensive snaps. Teams like New England, Houston, Carolina, Dallas, Washington, Detroit, Cleveland, etc.

I admit, i would have really liked to see some 2 TE sets with Gresham and Bo Scaife, but he's out for the year.

Glad they picked up Donald Lee though.

[cHaD711Johnson]

Yeah I know Michael Dyer is a Sophomore but this is his second year so he would be eligible for the draft after this year. Given recent history and how lots of young guys leave early if they are going to be a first-third round pick, that's why I mentioned him.

Now one thing might change the amount of guys who come out early is the new CBA. With a rookie wage scale, more guys might stay in college longer until they can max out their position in the draft.

...You have to be 3 year removed from college to enter the draft. 2nd Year Sophomores can not enter the NFL Draft, champ.

I forgot they are eligible after a redshirt sophomore season not a true sophomore season. Oh well, still draft the stud RT and then wait until 2013 to get Dyer.

If anything, recent years have shown that free agent running backs can come in and contribute. Look at the Michael Turners and Tim Hightowers of the league.

Kalil from USC is probably the highest rated tackle, but you are dreaming if you think Mike Brown uses another pick that high on tackle a few years after drafting Andre.

[Spor_tees]

Kalil from USC is probably the highest rated tackle, but you are dreaming if you think Mike Brown uses another pick that high on tackle a few years after drafting Andre.

Smith is a restricted free agent I believe after this year, so they are going to need to find a possible replacement anyways.

[cHaD711Johnson]

Kalil from USC is probably the highest rated tackle, but you are dreaming if you think Mike Brown uses another pick that high on tackle a few years after drafting Andre.

Smith is a restricted free agent I believe after this year, so they are going to need to find a possible replacement anyways.

Restricted free agent, meaning he's not going anywhere.

[HairOnFire]

You know, that's one thing i really like about Gruden. he is fresh and up to date. 2 TE formations are the hot in today's NFL (the past couple of seasons).

Yeah, they mentioned on NFL Playbook recently how the Patriots line up in a two TE formation more than 80% of the time. They also showed how the Patriots typically use their wideouts on so-called "clear-out" routes designed to move defenders out of areas that are then exploited by slot guys and TE's. The end result is a short passing scheme that allows Brady to throw for big yardage despite lacking a true #1 WR. They even implied a true #1 type wasn't even needed, and the results are hard to argue with.

Shifting to this weeks game against the Jags, I just bounced around a couple of Jacksonville messageboards and almost to the man Jag fans are terrified of Gresham. Or more accurately, they're terrified of any TE who has a pulse. Why? Because the Jags are a very solid base Cover2 defense that has a well established reputation of being unable to cover any decent TE over the course of a full game. Late game breakdowns were said to be commonplace.

[Spor_tees]

Does anyone have an idea of free agent running backs for next year? I know Benson only signed a one year contract this year but will they sign him back with the new baggage and his continually complaints?

[ct_bengal]

as of today,

Cedric Benson

Ronnie Brown

Mike Cox

Matt Forte

Arian Foster

Earnest Graham

Ryan Grant

BenJarvus Green-Ellis

Thomas Jones

Le'Ron McClain

Maurice Morris

Moran Norris

Jerious Norwood

Jason Snelling

Mike Tolbert

LaDainian Tomlinson

Derrick Ward

[Spor_tees]

as of today,

Cedric Benson

Ronnie Brown

Mike Cox

Matt Forte

Arian Foster

Earnest Graham

Ryan Grant

BenJarvus Green-Ellis

Thomas Jones

Le'Ron McClain

Maurice Morris

Moran Norris

Jerious Norwood

Jason Snelling

Mike Tolbert

LaDainian Tomlinson

Derrick Ward

Once you knock off the restricted free agents off that list, it doesn't leave much. Mike Tolbert will probably be the 'hot signing' like Turner was a couple years ago. Honestly Benson is probably the best guy on that list once you take everything into account. Maybe take a flyer on Ryan Grant? I just don't like the fact he seems a little injury prone.

[badassBENGAL]

Benson always looks pouty on the sidelines when we have to punt after some pass plays. I'm sick of it honestly. It isn't too hard to replace your ass, man

[HoosierCat]

Reedy:

Per league source, Benson meeting with NLRB in Cincinnati tomorrow regarding the unfair labor practice charge against NFLPA.

Marvin said today that the Bengals still hadn't heard anything from the league. I wonder if the NFL is waiting to see what the NLRB does. If they rule that the union stuck it to Benson that likely wouldn't help the NFL's case.