Andy Dalton or Bust

[HoosierCat]

Moving on? Can you imagine the national medias reaction to the sight of the "other Palmer" starting for the Bengals? Or try to imagine the way many Bengal fans would treat Jordan if he were named starter. If you ask me that's a fairly significant and important negative reaction that could easily be avoided simply by signing...(wait for it)...any other FA QB available. Only Jordan Palmer comes with the unwanted baggage of being seen and portrayed as a fake, an imposter, an inferior version of a once coveted genuine item.

I dunno. I'm not touting Jordan but I can't say I've read or heard much anti-Jordan chatter from Bengals fans. In fact, I believe he was being praised around these parts for his leadership in arranging lockout workouts. And if the national media has some fun with the Bengals for starting a fake Palmer, well, as you've pointed out in the past the team only has itself to blame for its lack of options at QB.

All that said, I really don't think there's much to worry about on this front. Every word out of Jay Gruden's mouth about the QB is Dalton, Dalton, Dalton. If he's not the starter I would be surprised.

[HairOnFire]

All that said, I really don't think there's much to worry about on this front. Every word out of Jay Gruden's mouth about the QB is Dalton, Dalton, Dalton. If he's not the starter I would be surprised.

Of course Dalton is all Gruden is talking about. The primary backup, Jordan Palmer, isn't a realistic option. And if he isn't a realistic option then why is he here?

I think the point you're missing is I'm not hoping for a veteran QB of such a lofty standing and reputation that his presence would slow Dalton's developement. I'm looking for a guy who could enhance it, both from the standpoint of being a sideline mentor should Dalton be given the job outright and as a veteran with the experience needed to keep Dalton on the bench until the latter is deemed capable of actually competing.

I dunno. I'm not touting Jordan but I can't say I've read or heard much anti-Jordan chatter from Bengals fans. In fact, I believe he was being praised around these parts for his leadership in arranging lockout workouts.

You can attempt to downplay the negative reaction all you want, but the end result will always be the same. None of the other veteran QB options come with the unique baggage that Jordan Palmer brings. So any negative, whatever it might turn out to be, big or small, can easily be avoided simply by not offering another contract to Jordan Palmer. And yeah, that puts the Bengals in the market for a replacement for Jordan Palmer, not his brother Carson. And call me crazy if you want, but Jordan Palmer would very easily fit on that list of unwanted mutt QB's, right? So why wouldn't that list be a good starting point for finding a replacement for Jordan Palmer.

And if the national media has some fun with the Bengals for starting a fake Palmer, well, as you've pointed out in the past the team only has itself to blame for its lack of options at QB.

What's that? The team only has itself to blame for it's lack of options at QB?

Are you seriously suggesting that Carson Palmer deserves no blame for abandoning the team with four years still remaining on a signed contract that has already paid him tens of millions of dollars?

[HoosierCat]

You can attempt to downplay the negative reaction all you want, but the end result will always be the same. None of the other veteran QB options come with the unique baggage that Jordan Palmer brings.

I'm not trying to downplay anything. I'm just not seeing any evidence that Bengals fans will revolt at the thought of starting Jordan just because he's Jordan. I do see plenty of people who say he shouldn't start because he sucks, but I haven't run into any objections along the lines your talking about.

What's that? The team only has itself to blame for it's lack of options at QB?

Excuse me, backup QB options. If they wanted a real No. 2, they've had years to either develop or sign one. Instead they used it on Palmer's l'il bro.

[HairOnFire]

I'm not trying to downplay anything. I'm just not seeing any evidence that Bengals fans will revolt at the thought of starting Jordan just because he's Jordan.

From downplaying things to immediately overplaying things? Predictable, I guess.

Anyways, who said anything about a revolt? I'm saying there will be a negative reaction and it's completely avoidable. Only another Palmer comes with the baggage of being a Palmer. Furthermore, there are plenty of other reasons for refusing to offer a roster spot to Jordan Palmer.

I do see plenty of people who say he shouldn't start because he sucks, but I haven't run into any objections along the lines your talking about.

That's because there's no reason for any of us to be discussing Jordan Palmer. He's unworthy of our consideration, right? But what happens the moment someone does the unthinkable? What happens the moment someone follows your suggestion to see what RunPee can really do?

Excuse me, backup QB options. If they wanted a real No. 2, they've had years to either develop or sign one. Instead they used it on Palmer's l'il bro.

Fair enough. In hindsight the decision to groom Palmer's little brother as a backup QB made sense only if Carson Palmer's level of professionalism was above reproach, as many of us once thought. Obviously the Bengals faith in Palmer now seems unfounded on many levels.

[HoosierCat]

Anyways, who said anything about a revolt? I'm saying there will be a negative reaction and it's completely avoidable. Only another Palmer comes with the baggage of being a Palmer. Furthermore, there are plenty of other reasons for refusing to offer a roster spot to Jordan Palmer.

Okay, negative reaction, then. All I'm saying is that what negative reaction I've seen to the idea of Jordan as starter has centered around his perceived lack of talent, not who he's related to.

What happens the moment someone follows your suggestion to see what RunPee can really do?

Then I guess we'll find out if his "baggage" really matters.

[HoosierCat]

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Gruden-hitting-the-gas/5126e0e6-6a21-4f53-bdb1-661b1247d938

Shorter Jay Gruden: Unless Andy Dalton sucks balls in camp, it's his team.

[HairOnFire]

/>http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Gruden-hitting-the-gas/5126e0e6-6a21-4f53-bdb1-661b1247d938

Shorter Jay Gruden: Unless Andy Dalton sucks balls in camp, it's his team.

Hilarious. Jay Gruden says everything points to the offense sucking so there's no reason to pull back. Thus, he says he's hitting the gas and going full throttle, a pretty neat trick when you consider how he hasn't coached a single Bengal practice yet.

Sorta makes you wonder what half throttle might look like, doesn't it? Perhaps the current rhetoric would be toned down by 50%? Or maybe Gruden would wait until he had a full practice under his belt before proclaiming all the skeptics wrong?

My advice for Andy Dalton?

Start growing a beard immediately.

[HoosierCat]

Sorta makes you wonder what half throttle might look like, doesn't it? Perhaps the current rhetoric would be toned down by 50%? Or maybe Gruden would wait until he had a full practice under his belt before proclaiming all the skeptics wrong?

What's funnier is how he was talking about how the offense would be taking "baby steps" just a couple weeks ago. Think maybe he got a little flack for that?

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I'm not trying to downplay anything. I'm just not seeing any evidence that Bengals fans will revolt at the thought of starting Jordan just because he's Jordan. I do see plenty of people who say he shouldn't start because he sucks, but I haven't run into any objections along the lines your talking about.

I am in favor of Palmer the Younger simply because it's the best chance we have at actual entertainment. Like that wouldn't be a little surreal? I mean hell, we're not talking about playoffs. [insert Jim Mora gag here]

Let Palmer think he's a real NFL starter for a while. Have him start the first 6 games. Give Dalton one series in the first game and ramp that up as he learns about the NFL - and hopefully, as his O-line comes together. Hand him the keys to the Lumina after the bye. That'll give him the time to get ready for 2012. Hopefully the rest of the team will take the opportunity to do the same.

[HoosierCat]

[

I am in favor of Palmer the Younger simply because it's the best chance we have at actual entertainment. Like that wouldn't be a little surreal? I mean hell, we're not talking about playoffs. [insert Jim Mora gag here]

Let Palmer think he's a real NFL starter for a while. Have him start the first 6 games. Give Dalton one series in the first game and ramp that up as he learns about the NFL - and hopefully, as his O-line comes together. Hand him the keys to the Lumina after the bye. That'll give him the time to get ready for 2012. Hopefully the rest of the team will take the opportunity to do the same.

Of course, knowing how goofy things are in Bengaldom, RunPee would be 6-0 going into the bye...

[volcom69]

I like this Gruden guy, i like when hes says they are going full throttle, and guys better be prepared to work late learning the playbook. I guess this will tell him which guys want it, and which guys dont.

[BengalPimp]

I like this Gruden guy, i like when hes says they are going full throttle, and guys better be prepared to work late learning the playbook. I guess this will tell him which guys want it, and which guys dont.

It's a lot easier to say that when your offense is filled with Rookies, 2nd and 3rd year guys..............The Vets are usually the guys who don't like change........looks like Gruden wont have that problem as there won't be many Veterans

[membengal]

It has been awhile since I have been so, hmm, what's the right word, excited? curious? about a Bengals season. I expect them to be bad, I am interested in the fact that they seem to have turned a page, all in all, the vague anarchy of the set-up thanks to the lockout and the quitter is, I guess, how about "intruiging" (as hell). In 40 or so years of Bengal fandom, I have never quite seen this particular act before.

[ArmyBengal]

Bottomline for me is quite easy.

I don't see any QB that would be willing to come to Cincinnati taking the Bengals to the playoffs in 2011.

With that being the case, I would rather sit through whatever good or bad Dalton brings the team.

Sure there are other variables to consider, but there it is, my bottomline.

Yeah, Dalton also would give me the biggest reason to tune in this season.

[volcom69]

Im watching some of the replay of the Rose Bowl, and wow does Andy put everything on his shoulders in that game. 41-7 as a starter in his carrer at TCU, it may not be the hardest confrence, but with that record speaks for its self!! Im excited to see what he can do, so i do hope he starts, and works through his mistakes.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Im excited to see what he can do, so i do hope he starts, and works through his mistakes.

With our O-line and a lack of a training camp, I hope he lives through his mistakes.

I think a lot of the kid, especially where they got him in the draft. I just hope they don't kill his career because they got painted into a corner where they have to start him. I'd rather they give up on 2011 and play for 2012.

Of course, that assumes the generally held notion that 2011 is a bust. I'm still waiting for the "It's a strike year! Anything can happen!" movement. I figure once the CBA is signed and camp starts.

[cincyhokie]

Im excited to see what he can do, so i do hope he starts, and works through his mistakes.

With our O-line and a lack of a training camp, I hope he lives through his mistakes.

I think a lot of the kid, especially where they got him in the draft. I just hope they don't kill his career because they got painted into a corner where they have to start him. I'd rather they give up on 2011 and play for 2012.

Of course, that assumes the generally held notion that 2011 is a bust. I'm still waiting for the "It's a strike year! Anything can happen!" movement. I figure once the CBA is signed and camp starts.

I like Dalton's potential. You're right about the O-line, though. He's going to get killed. Maybe they upgrade the O-line in the FA period? Maybe...

[ArmyBengal]

I can agree that the o-line could get him killed in the pass protection scheme of things, but this is a very good run blocking o-line and if Gruden sticks to his "run heavy" mentality, it could work in Dalton's favor.

[cincyhokie]

I can agree that the o-line could get him killed in the pass protection scheme of things, but this is a very good run blocking o-line and if Gruden sticks to his "run heavy" mentality, it could work in Dalton's favor.

I think they were good enough in 2009 when the Bengals also forced teams to respect the pass. Teams this year will stack the line to force Dalton to throw.

When teams stack the line to stop the Bengals running game. We all know the results.

O-line HAS to be upgraded. Adding Boling was a start. We need more.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I think they were good enough in 2009 when the Bengals also forced teams to respect the pass. Teams this year will stack the line to force Dalton to throw.

Not only that, but they'll sit on those short-distance and dump-off routes the WCO uses heavily. They will force him to throw downfield.

O-line HAS to be upgraded. Adding Boling was a start. We need more.

Problem is, even if you somehow find some starters in FA, they won't have time to get used to working as a unit, which is vital for OL. That's why I really want to see him gradually worked into being the starter. Not just for him to get the experience he needed from OTAs and camp, but for his OL to come together so they can keep him on his feet.

Ultimately, this is a nightmare for starting a rookie. Strike wipes out OTAs and much of camp. OL is terrible at pass blocking. OC is learning on the job. No veteran receivers with the speed to get separation downfield. Honestly, there's no way I'd even think about a rookie week 1.

I need more Jordan Palmer in my life. If the 2011 Bengals ruin his career...well, no great loss. As Hoosier points out, he still has RunPee to fall back on.

[7/11]

dalton is one of the few rookie QBs to come out in the last 5 years that is prepared to start, even for us.

his mental makeup is tremendous and he appears to be unflappable. the only thing that can crush this kid's spirit is mike brown- just a matter of time...

Really? He's prepared to start because you like his "mental makeup" and he "appears to be unflappable"? Really?

The guy doesn't know the playbook, the system, has had NO PRACTICE TIME. no training camp, no rapport with WR's, TE's, or RB's, has NEVER faced an NFL Defense and came from a TCU program that played it's games against teams like Southern Methodist, UNLV, Wyoming, Air Force, Tennessee Tech, New Mexico, and Colorado State. I DARE YOU to find EVEN ONE player from those schools drafted and playing on an NFL Defense this season. This kid is gonna learn REAL QUICK the difference betweeen the Ravens, Steelers, etc and freakin Tennessee Tech........but hey, hey was "Unflappable" against 1-11 New Mexico....Who was the 1 team New Mexico beat you ask? Why it was 3-9 Wyoming (also on TCU's Schedule)

Prepared to start my ass, NO ROOKIE QB would have been "prepared to start" had there NOT been a lockout, let alone now.

As a Bengals fan I would like to see Dalton succeed, but I won't try to fool myself into thinking he is even remotely "ready" to start.

sweet rant.

of course he's gonna learn the difference between Tenn Tech and BAL/PIT. ??? most qb's would. but like you said in bold letters, dalton will learn REAL QUICK.

he's not gonna be a star, b/c yeah, he's a rookie, and yeah, he plays for the bengals, but what are the other options? jordan palmer, dan lefevour? no.

believe it or not, dalton (AGAINST AIR FORCE, SMU, AND AAAGGHH TENN. TECH)ran an offense very similar to jay gruden's. he was a 4-year starter at TCU running a very similar offense.

you're puttin way too much value in New Mexico vs. Wyoming game for real. pay attention to what dalton did in 4 years at a rose bowl-winning TCU. pay attention to how players he works out with now say he doesn't carry himself like a rookie. pay attention to quan cosby tellin lance mcallister that he is learning stuff from dalton every day. pay attention to how much our current QB's suck.

while you seem like a dude that will bring this thread up when dalton throws his first interception *gasp*, wait until season's end. if dalton starts most/all of the season, i guarantee you'll be impressed.

[volcom69]

I really think we should wait till the end of the season till we judge a can who never threw a pass in the NFL. Heck did we ever think guys like Joe Flacco, or Josh Freeman would become big stars in the league, i know i really didnt. So ill wait to judge Dalton till the end of the season, but everything you see from him you got to love. I loved watching him play for TCU and his leadership is just amazing, so i think he can be pretty successful in this league. Give it time

[cincyhokie]

Why does everything have to be all or nothing? Superbowl or crap?

I predict he'll be ok for the circumstance he's been put in. Kind of hard to ask ANY QB to come into this situation with a 4-12 team and go to the playoffs.

He'll help win some games, he'll help lose some games. The Bengals will probably have a losing record but I think Dalton will play well enough to be the QB next year, regardless of the record.

[BengalPappaw]

Why does everything have to be all or nothing? Superbowl or crap?

I predict he'll be ok for the circumstance he's been put in. Kind of hard to ask ANY QB to come into this situation with a 4-12 team and go to the playoffs.

He'll help win some games, he'll help lose some games. The Bengals will probably have a losing record but I think Dalton will play well enough to be the QB next year, regardless of the record.

I agree!

I watched games of Andy Dalton as he started in his first year. He did make mistakes, but he was still very good and seemed to learn from his mistakes. I'm hoping for a good season i.e. 9-7, but, mainly, I want to see Dalton show signs of being the QB of the future for us that I think he is.

[HoosierCat]

Here's Gruden in yesterday's paper:

"I think we'll see when it opens up if we get with another veteran or if it's the three we have," Gruden said. "... If I had to say right now - but Coach Lewis will have more say than I will - we have to get Andy ready. If he can't handle it, we have to get Jordan ready. If Jordan can't handle it, then we have to get Dan ready."