Carson Palmer Thread

[kingwilly]

Edit to my comment above: I do give SoP credit for pulling the trigger once the value became so high. He is trading his flagship QB to a conference team, who *could* be a playoff opponent. Risky move but WTF, I give him credit for getting the deal done.

It is noted by La Canfora that teams were surprised that Brown did not contact other teams about bidding up the offers for Palmer. I guess SoP took the draft picks and ran.

Good move for the team, good move for Mike Brown, my new favorite blind squirrel. Better lucky than good!

[HairOnFire]

Ok, not to piss on the parade but this is not a master stroke of genius or some finely executed plan that was hatched long ago.

[insert Bird Picture]

[derekshank]

Ok, not to piss on the parade but this is not a master stroke of genius or some finely executed plan that was hatched long ago.

[insert Bird Picture]

Exactly.

[cHaD711Johnson]

I feel like we'll end up with a weak trade though.

Of course we will......because the Bngals don't have a F*king GM who could pull off a decent trade.

Points. Laughs.

I have never been happier to eat crown in MY LIFE.

[redsbengalsbucks]

I feel like we'll end up with a weak trade though.

Of course we will......because the Bngals don't have a F*king GM who could pull off a decent trade.

Points. Laughs.

I have never been happier to eat crown in MY LIFE.

Do you eat alot of crown?

[kingwilly]

I feel like we'll end up with a weak trade though.

Of course we will......because the Bngals don't have a F*king GM who could pull off a decent trade.

Points. Laughs.

I have never been happier to eat crown in MY LIFE.

Mike, nice find. Now, show us this is nothing more than opportunistic coincidence. We tip our hats for doing it but that is like gushing congratulations to a guy for his master plan to hit the powerball.

[HairOnFire]

Edit to my comment above: I do give SoP credit for pulling the trigger once the value became so high. He is trading his flagship QB to a conference team, who *could* be a playoff opponent. Risky move but WTF, I give him credit for getting the deal done.

It is noted by La Canfora that teams were surprised that Brown did not contact other teams about bidding up the offers for Palmer. I guess SoP took the draft picks and ran.

Good move for the team, good move for Mike Brown, my new favorite blind squirrel. Better lucky than good!

My take? Without the injury to Jason Campbell none of us would be talking about a Palmer trade this morning. So there's your luck angle, I admit. But by the same token I'm guessing an even bigger reason we're talking about a Palmer trade this morning has more to do with Hue Jackson than anyone else, including Palmer.

Nutshelled, Brown likes Jackson and wanted to throw a well-liked rookie head coach a lifeline far more than he wanted to keep Palmer on ice. As a result Brown made a trade today that he could very easily have waited until March or April to make. But of course there was no real reason to wait until later because it was unlikely to result in a better deal.

As for the blind squirrel rant, I'm now reminded how often during the last few months posters like yourself have not only admitted you would have accepted far less than Brown managed, but demanded he trade Palmer as soon as possible. And if they had done as you suggested they wouldn't have been in any position to take advantage of the Raiders bad luck.

So maybe you should shut up about the whole blind squirrel thing before somebody remembers how you would have dealt Palmer months ago.....before luck played a hand.

[HoosierCat]

And if they had done as you suggested they wouldn't have been in any position to take advantage of the Raiders bad luck.

Guilty. Which I why I don't have a single bad word to say about Mike today. He done good.

[Spor_tees]

So I read on ESPN that the second first rounder in 2013 is conditional to the Raiders winning a playoff game in 2011. What happens if the Bengals and the Raiders meet in the playoffs this year? If the Bengals win they get a second rounder and move on in the playoffs, but if they lose they get a first rounder. That would suck.

But having two first rounders in 2012 they can get a RT and RB in round one and then address WR/S/LB in round two. Life is beautiful.

[HairOnFire]

What happens if the Bengals and the Raiders meet in the playoffs this year? If the Bengals win they get a second rounder and move on in the playoffs, but if they lose they get a first rounder. That would suck.

Suck?

I'd pay money to see it.

[derekshank]

So maybe you should shut up about the whole blind squirrel thing before somebody remembers how you would have dealt Palmer months ago.....before luck played a hand.

Bingo.

Mike Brown knew there was no immediate need to move Palmer. Because of the CBA, no trade could be made last April... and thus no trade would bring immediate benefit to the Bengals.

More importantly, (without the lucky injury angle), any team interested in Palmer's services in 2012 would likely pay just as much then as they would have now.

In other words, there was never a need to be in a hurry to deal him. And by not trading Palmer, Mike Brown was giving luck a chance to play out. Everyone else demanded Mike Brown play his cards before he needed to. But, knowing there was no hurry, he waited to see if a better scenario might come along. And now he looks smart... and all the impatient whiners look stupid.

[HoosierCat]

Peter King dedicates his MMQB Tuesday Edition to the deal and tosses this out.

4. Give assists to Scott Fujita and Chris Gocong, linebackers for the Cleveland Browns, for making the trade happen. They smashed into Campbell Sunday, drove him into the ground, and the result was a collarbone injury that put him out for the season, most likely. Without that injury, there's no way the Raiders would have made this deal. So you Cleveland Browns fans, Bengal Nation (if there is one) thanks you profusely.

Yeah, thanks Cleveland!

[kingwilly]

Edit to my comment above: I do give SoP credit for pulling the trigger once the value became so high. He is trading his flagship QB to a conference team, who *could* be a playoff opponent. Risky move but WTF, I give him credit for getting the deal done.

It is noted by La Canfora that teams were surprised that Brown did not contact other teams about bidding up the offers for Palmer. I guess SoP took the draft picks and ran.

Good move for the team, good move for Mike Brown, my new favorite blind squirrel. Better lucky than good!

My take? Without the injury to Jason Campbell none of us would be talking about a Palmer trade this morning. So there's your luck angle, I admit. But by the same token I'm guessing an even bigger reason we're talking about a Palmer trade this morning has more to do with Hue Jackson than anyone else, including Palmer.

Nutshelled, Brown likes Jackson and wanted to throw a well-liked rookie head coach a lifeline far more than he wanted to keep Palmer on ice. As a result Brown made a trade today that he could very easily have waited until March or April to make. But of course there was no real reason to wait until later because it was unlikely to result in a better deal.

As for the blind squirrel rant, I'm now reminded how often during the last few months posters like yourself have not only admitted you would have accepted far less than Brown managed, but demanded he trade Palmer as soon as possible. And if they had done as you suggested they wouldn't have been in any position to take advantage of the Raiders bad luck.

So maybe you should shut up about the whole blind squirrel thing before somebody remembers how you would have dealt Palmer months ago.....before luck played a hand.

Maybe you should shut up with the whole Jackson-Brown love-fest? It is purely a coincidental occurrence!

If it were not for Jackson and some of the stupid offense Oakland runs, Campbell would still be playing...

Yes, I would have been taking the sure value that was being offered for Palmer around the draft, or in the first few weeks of the season, rather than crossing my fingers and toes that several of the following would occur, none of which are tied to planning, wisdom or skill:

1. QB's playing better than anticipated: Dalton is playing better than anticipated, ALex Smith playing better than anticipated

2. QB's continue to be hurt and struggle (Henne, Campbell, Jackson, McNabb)

3. Al Davis dying

4. Campbell getting hurt RIGHT before the trade deadline.

I'm sorry but I cannot be convinced this is more than blind squirrel business. To me, getting a bird in hand in April is worth more than the 2012 r1, and maybe 2013 r1 picks from the Raiders because there is no certainty that this would occur!!! Smart money (supposedly SoP) has to go with the bird in hand and more probably get good value and immediate impact.

[princeton]

But having two first rounders in 2012 they can get a RT and RB in round one and then address WR/S/LB in round two. Life is beautiful.

I went from "draft RT" to "dang, why didn't we pick up Andre's option" a couple of days ago. I'm sure that all eyes will remain on Andre for consistency. We certainly have the money to extend him, with Carson off the books.

draft-wise, Bengals are sitting kind of pretty right now. if RT works out, then their other needs (S, OG, another OG, nickel, second wide, even RB these days) are usually found in later rounds. So they can trade down or go for a sliding talent.

[kingwilly]

So maybe you should shut up about the whole blind squirrel thing before somebody remembers how you would have dealt Palmer months ago.....before luck played a hand.

Bingo.

Mike Brown knew there was no immediate need to move Palmer. Because of the CBA, no trade could be made last April... and thus no trade would bring immediate benefit to the Bengals.

More importantly, (without the lucky injury angle), any team interested in Palmer's services in 2012 would likely pay just as much then as they would have now.

In other words, there was never a need to be in a hurry to deal him. And by not trading Palmer, Mike Brown was giving luck a chance to play out. Everyone else demanded Mike Brown play his cards before he needed to. But, knowing there was no hurry, he waited to see if a better scenario might come along. And now he looks smart... and all the impatient whiners look stupid.

Sorry, he only looks smart to you.

He looks lucky. Lucky as the guy who hits the goldstrike. Sure, there is gold in them tar hills but its not smarts or skill that strikes it. It is lady luck.

SoP got lucky. He was smart enough to pull the trigger, or maybe more specifically not so dumb as to NOT do the deal. For that I give him all the credit in the world. Now, related to that I have to imagine that Miami and others had some measure of value offer on the table since Palmer expressed his intentions, and maybe even Miami made a call or two once Henne went down. So, I do need to give credit to SoP for sticking to his guns, planning for luck to strike. And boy did it. Like I said, tip of the hat but let's not make this more than it is, as related to Brown. I celebrate the picks, and the luck, and the seizing of opportunity but let's keep perspective rooted in reality.

[derekshank]

He looks lucky. Lucky as the guy who hits the goldstrike. Sure, there is gold in them tar hills but its not smarts or skill that strikes it. It is lady luck.

You're a dick. Any other GM in the league pulls this deal, they would be praised by their fan base.

The media is currently praising Mike Brown as well... not for luck - but for holding out for the best possible deal. Who refuses to give him his due? Assclown Bengal fans.

Fans like you deserve everything the 90's brought you.

[derekshank]

I'm sorry but I cannot be convinced this is more than blind squirrel business.

Is this not one of the youngest teams in the NFL, playing quite well mostly because of how well they have drafted? Face it... this isn't just one lucky move. The Bengals GM is performing quite well at the moment.

Perhaps his current success isn't enough for you to forget the failings of the past... and that's fine. Criticize away for those mistakes. But you must judge him now on the same basis that you have judged him back then. And if you are consistent, you'll find that he's doing a damn fine job.

[HairOnFire]

I'm sorry but I cannot be convinced this is more than blind squirrel business.

Trying to convince you of anything hardly matters to me. Because you were wrong earlier, you're wrong now, and you'll still be wrong tomorrow whether you admit it or not.

There's no getting around it.

You would have accepted peanuts. You've admitted it. By comparison, Mike Brown traded Palmer and got circa 2005 value in return. Thus, you suck worse than Mike Brown.

[kingwilly]

He looks lucky. Lucky as the guy who hits the goldstrike. Sure, there is gold in them tar hills but its not smarts or skill that strikes it. It is lady luck.

You're a dick. Any other GM in the league pulls this deal, they would be praised by their fan base.

The media is currently praising Mike Brown as well... not for luck - but for holding out for the best possible deal. Who refuses to give him his due? Assclown Bengal fans.

Fans like you deserve everything the 90's brought you.

Eat a goat dick. I am as happy as a pig in slop! I'm just not going to smile and swallow what SoP is ejacubating. He got lucky. Please recognize that.

The picks he got are freaking amazing. The timing and luck of the thing are amazing!! I get it. I'm just not ready to take it dry from Mike Brown because he found a bag of money on the way to our romantic dinner and decided to go Maisonette rather than Denny's.

Stop freaking out.

To HoF: Accepted "Peanuts"? sure... because you say so, it must be true. The understanding of what was being offered were in-line with Carson's value. How is that bad? Rather than take the value, and get the team better, faster, SoP sat on his hands (ok, fine) and then got hugely lucky! Pulling a rabbit out of a hat is a nice trick. Pulling an Elephant out of a hat pure freakin' luck.

Good for everyone that it happened this way because the cards won't fall this way again anytime soon. You can't run a successful NFL team based on 1960's management and pure luck. And that is not "wrong", that is reality.

[princeton]

Brown has set up for this kind of deal for years, by turning down huge offers for things like the pick that went for Akili and the pick that went for AJ Green. When Mike says no, you really have to give him an enormous reason to say yes. Oakland had to start negotiations with a high offer. That's always nice.

mrs. princeton negotiates like the Raiders.

[membengal]

Wow.

Just found out after being buried in a mtg.

Good on mike brown for not being the panicky bitch so many wanted him to be.

Oh, and willy? You are being a dick. You were wrong throughout. Just admit it and move on.

[kingwilly]

I'm sorry but I cannot be convinced this is more than blind squirrel business.

Is this not one of the youngest teams in the NFL, playing quite well mostly because of how well they have drafted? Face it... this isn't just one lucky move. The Bengals GM is performing quite well at the moment.

Perhaps his current success isn't enough for you to forget the failings of the past... and that's fine. Criticize away for those mistakes. But you must judge him now on the same basis that you have judged him back then. And if you are consistent, you'll find that he's doing a damn fine job.

To this point, I do agree. The recent drafts, even Fat Andre's magic foot, are working out. I salute the luck of the day with the Palmer trade, and the 2010 and 2011 drafts. Kudos to SoP. Letting go of the past will take more time. Maybe the evolution of things finally caught up? Maybe this is the start of long-term success... I hope that it is true but we'll need to see more.

[HairOnFire]

For those who refuse to give credit where credit is due please read to following and pay particular attention to the bits in bold as they relate specifically to actions taken by Brown that his critics would NOT have taken.

Look what Palmer did for Brown

Future bright for Bengals, future now for Raiders Andrew Brandt

</p>

So much for my column today about the trading deadline being a dud

As I asked in my previous column about the showdown between Carson Palmer and Mike Brown, "What Can Brown do for Carson?", the answer is reportedly "send him to the Raiders for an unexpected bounty."

I tried to give some insight into Brown in the article: how he is stubborn and obstinate, mocked in league circles and seen as frustrating to deal with and out of touch by players and agents. I also felt that Palmer and agentDavid Dunn were unfortunately on the wrong side of the leverage equation in this staredown: Brown would make Palmer sit rather than allow he and Dunn to force a trade through a sham retirement.

What I nor anyone else did not expect -- including Palmer and Dunn -- was that another team would offer a stunning package to secure Palmer in a trade. With the offer reported to be a 2012 first-round pick and a 2013 second-round pick that could become a first, Brown had played the Palmer situation to maximum advantage; it was time to make a deal.

In sum, Brown did the following: accepted Palmer's retirement, placed him on a reserve list where he sat unpaid, drafted a replacement that looks to be a promising player for the future, maintained Cap room should Palmer have requested reinstatement, waited for a desperate team in dire need of an experienced quarterback and leveraged a dramatic package for Palmer, a player that was never going to add any more to the Bengals anyway.

The Raiders will pay Palmer $7.44 million for the rest of 2011 -- which he will restructure for Cap purposes, not cash -- and $11.5 million for 2012. The Bengals are paying Dalton a little over $5 million for the next four years and will pay next year's pick from the Raiders around $8 million for four years. Thus, the Raiders will pay Palmer almost $19 million for a year and a half; the Bengals will pay Dalton and the first-round pick Palmer nets (not even mentioning the 2013 pick) about $13 million for eight years of service!

With the lessened financial obligation of the new CBA, first-round picks -- as well as second-round picks -- are gold. They give a team great value for the money now associated with them. The Bengals will reap the benefits of the that. As to the Raiders, they are becoming the Redskins of a decade ago; draft picks are fungible. the future is now.

What can Brown do for Carson? Leverage a trade that will benefit the Bengals for years to come.

/>http://www.nationalf...-for-Brown.html

[derekshank]

Stop freaking out.

Who is freaking out? It seems to me like you are scrambling to explain away a successful move.

Of course that one move has nothing to do with why this team is currently having success. It has everything to do with the draft picks and free agents Mike Brown signed. Right?

And now, he has even more draft picks and cap space to work with. Right?

In other words... Mike Brown's performance is far better than you'll admit. But that's alright. It's obvious that you're wrong. But by all means... keep scrambling. It's entertaining to watch.

[Spor_tees]

I'm sorry but I cannot be convinced this is more than blind squirrel business.

Trying to convince you of anything hardly matters to me. Because you were wrong earlier, you're wrong now, and you'll still be wrong tomorrow whether you admit it or not.

There's no getting around it.

You would have accepted peanuts. You've admitted it. By comparison, Mike Brown traded Palmer and got circa 2005 value in return. Thus, you suck worse than Mike Brown.

Date in time is irrelevant, but timing is not.

When I used tell my uncle how much some of my sports card were worth, he would always ask, "How do you know?"

I would reply, "Because this book called Beckett tells me so."

Then he would look at one of my cards for a second and then say, "Well to me this card isn't worth anything."

I then would look up at him and ask," Why would you say that when this book says it's worth $25?"

I will always remember what he said next,"Nephew, no matter what you have in this world, whether it is a baseball card, a car, a gun, whatever...it's only worth what someone else is willing to pay YOU for it."

Mike Brown stood firm and the timing and offer turned out just right that an Oakland team with a winning record, a shot at the playoffs, a hurt QB, and s**t for backup QBs, was willing to offer him the farm for Palmer. So in fact because of the situation, Mike Brown may have gotten MORE for Palmer today than he would have in 2005.