If you could build a franchise...

[LABengalsFan09]

I'm sure this type of thing has probably been done around here a thousand times. But oh well...

As much as it pains me to say it, I would have to choose Ray Lewis. He is the most dominant force on either side of the ball today. He is the Shaquille O'neal of the gridiron, able to alter the way teams play just to avoid him which is no easy task. He makes everyone else around him better, and if that is not happening he doesn't hold any punches when verbally setting them on his path. With defense such an important part of the game today, I would start with Lewis and go from there...

My 2nd pick would have been CJ, how could anyone not love someone so determined to be the greatest and actually start to back it up on the field...

:player: :player:

[Kirkendall]

I think the first thing I'd do is make Mike Brown the General Manager. A man with that much football knowledge shouldn't be left behind.. muhahahahahahahahahaha...

[LABengalsFan09]

Dr. Evil, You're scaring me....

[Kirkendall]

Dr. Evil, You're scaring me....

All seriousness, I have to pick Tom Brady. It's awfully hard to pick against a guy that's helped take his team to 2 SBs in the past 3 years. Sure, his head coach -- maybe the best in the game -- enabled the Pats to win with a stellar defense, it still promotes the fact that Brady is perhaps one of the better professional football players in the game with his ability to take last minute drives converting them into wins and championships.

[LABengalsFan09]

Nice take, I would definitely rather have him than Peyton... I think Brady is the second coming of "Joe Cool", and that doesn't bode well for us... unless Carson is the second coming of Brett Favre

[Kirkendall]

Nice take, I would definitely rather have him than Peyton... I think Brady is the second coming of "Joe Cool", and that doesn't bode well for us... unless Carson is the second coming of Brett Favre

No doubt I'd pick Ray Lewis as my first defensive guy, I'm more offensive minded.

Carson as the next coming of Favre? Wouldn't that be kickass...

[ckj414]

I have to say Peyton Manning. Accurate thrower, technically sound, good arm, and most importantly, with Manning as your QB, the best offensive coordinator in the league is out there on the field, picking apart the defense. Maybe the latter is a stretch, but I also don't buy in to the Manning-as-choke-artist theory. The best player in the league isn't always on the best team. That doesn't make that player as an individual any worse.

Brady as the 2nd coming of Montana....hmm, I've thought the same thing before. But then I always thought of Montana as the most visible player on the best team, not the best player. Great QB, but he had nothing on a few of his contemporaries, much like Brady is to Manning/McNair.

My next pick would be Ray Lewis, although I'd really prefer a DT of the same calibur. But I guess there aren't any Joe Greenes in the league these days...

[LABengalsFan09]

Yes, but Remember Montana had Roger Craig, Jerry Rice, and John Taylor.

I don't put Troy Brown, Antoine Smith, and David Givens on their level...

[Kirkendall]

I have to say Peyton Manning. Accurate thrower, technically sound, good arm, and most importantly, with Manning as your QB, the best offensive coordinator in the league is out there on the field, picking apart the defense. Maybe the latter is a stretch, but I also don't buy in to the Manning-as-choke-artist theory.

My only knock on Payton is the same thing you said, chokes in big games. He's done this throughout his college career and professional career. I love Payton Manning, I'm a big offense guy and watching him play is like watching god create earth, but until he wins a championship, he'll always be second fiddle to winners.

Will he win big games? Who knows, he's got an awesome offensive supporting cast. I guess with a lack luster defense and good offensive personal, it gives him the benefit of the doubt.

With a great defense, less than average offensive support, Brady is more of a winner than Payton. I'm not saying Brady is better, but he knows NOW how to win more than Manning and I'd rather build my team around someone that can win with a less than average offensive team.

[EdwardG]

I would pick Chad Pennington.

[jditty47]

i picked peyton. I pick him over lewis cuz he has the rock in his hand and controls the game alot more than a linebacker.

[Barbarian]

Before I start--Kirk, your first post was hilarious. Did you hi-jack a couple of my braincells lately??? If so, I need them back.

My vote goes for LaDainian. How can you go wrong there??? All those yards rushing. 100 catches too??? Wow. What a stud. Now, where the hell is the rest of it out in San Diego???? I guess when you have a stupid draft a couple of years in a row (Drew Brees, Ryan Leaf), that your team is going to suck ass.

Getting rid of Rodney Harrison was completely idiotic!!! Did you see him in the Super Bowl??? Broken arm and all??? Holy crapola. He's totally underrated. He's a brain-scrambler--he hits so damned hard.

Another reason why I pick LT over the rest--San Diego sucks ass to the furthest degree--but do you hear any complaining out of LT???

This man is a workhorse--and his line sucks!!! Think what would happen if he had the Ravens' O-line???

[ackley1]

My pick is Michael Vick. I can't believe he wasn't up there. Don't forget about the most exciting player in the league! Anyways, you put a good supporting cast around him and a defense and he'll take ATL all the way. Any of those choices would be great player to build a franchise around though. Especially Ray Lewis and Brady.

[jditty47]

Vick - overrated, wont ever win a superbowl.

Thomlinson - great runningback, but a running back cant carry a team like a QB could.

[Barbarian]

Vick - overrated, wont ever win a superbowl.

Thomlinson - great runningback, but a running back cant carry a team like a QB could.

Pditty,

Did you forget about Walter Payton, Emmitt Smith, and Barry Sanders???

LT CAN take you all the way.

How about more current--Jamal "The Dealer" Lewis.

LT just needs a defense behind him. A good-great running back CAN carry you for the offense. All you need is a Trent Dilfer-type as a QB.

That QB carrying a team thing is a Mike Brown way of thinking--you don't work in the Bungles' Scouting Department, do you??? Your name isn't Jeff Slobson is it???

I will agree with you that Michael Vick is overrated--BIG TIME. Get his passing percentage about 60% then we'll start talking about Vick not being overrated.

[ackley1]

Vick - overrated, wont ever win a superbowl.

Thomlinson - great runningback, but a running back cant carry a team like a QB could.

How is Vick overrated? He's got perhaps the strongest arm in the NFL, not to mention athleticism. If he had a good running back and an O-line how would you stop him? The only reason the Falcons made the playoffs a couple of years ago was because of him...and he really didn't have much of a supporting cast. So you're saying Trent Dilfer can win a Super Bowl but Vick can't? Come on man.

[jditty47]

ackley - yes im saying that. Dilfer was accurate, vick isnt...and never will be. He cant throw straight even if his life depended on it. He runs too much, hes not patient etc. i could list a ton of arguments why vick wouldnt be the BEST person to build a team around.

And that brings me to Arnold the barbarians philosophy with Thomlinson. Yes i think hes a great runningback, mb the best running back to build a franchise around, but the question was what is the best player to build a franchise around, its definately a QB, and the one to do it is peyton. A runningback cannot decide what plays to call, to change a play if he sees a certain defense, runs the show, its the QB. If u have to build a team from scratch and start with 1 pick in the first round, its Peyton hands down. Thomlinson would be like the 3rd-4th pick after brady.

LT cant take u anywhere alone, look at san diego.

Peyton MADE the playoffs with a s**tty defense like san diego's....wanna reassess your vote arnold?

bow down biches :-D

[bengalsfan33]

I voted for LT because your going to need a RB that's going to be able to for rush 1000 yards. You must have a good running game if you want to get anywhere.

[Barbarian]

Vick - overrated, wont ever win a superbowl. 

Thomlinson - great runningback, but a running back cant carry a team like a QB could.

How is Vick overrated? He's got perhaps the strongest arm in the NFL, not to mention athleticism. If he had a good running back and an O-line how would you stop him? The only reason the Falcons made the playoffs a couple of years ago was because of him...and he really didn't have much of a supporting cast. So you're saying Trent Dilfer can win a Super Bowl but Vick can't? Come on man.

Ackley1,

No, you have that wrong. Trent Dilfer DID win a Super Bowl. Mike Vick's team went in as a wildcard. They didn't even sniff Super Bowl.

He may have the strongest arm in the NFL--but his accuracy is horrid!!! How many times did you see Vick over-throwing people while not having his feet planted??? How about throwing off his back foot??? How many times did he skip the ball off the Dome's Carpet???

Here's his stats for his career:

PASSING

Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate

2001 Atlanta Falcons 8 2 113 50 44.2 785 6.95 52 2 3 21/113 11 4 62.7

2002 Atlanta Falcons 15 15 421 231 54.9 2936 6.97 74 16 8 33/206 44 8 81.6

2003 Atlanta Falcons 5 4 100 50 50.0 585 5.85 49 4 3 9/64 7 2 69.0

TOTAL 28 21 634 331 52.2 4306 6.79 74 22 14 63/383 62 14 76.3

Notice how his completion percentage for his career is 52.2%???????????? That sucks!!!!! Akillme Smith would probably be pissed about having completion percentage rates that low. How about QB rating--81.6 is the highest rating he's had in his career. That's slightly above AVERAGE. His career QB rating 76.3 is MEDIOCRE AS HELL. What Rush said about McNabb should have been worded different, but he SHOULD have used Mike Vick as his example. At least McNabb's been close 3 times.

I'll go a little more ruthless with this--MIKE VICK'S INJURY LAST YEAR WAS HIS OWN DAMNED FAULT!!! His unnecessary scrambling is partly to blame. If Vick stays in the f**king pocket, then he doesn't get hurt. Atlanta then goes on to have another average to above average year.

Don't give me this s**t about him using his feet to win either. That s**t doesn't work for me. Randall Cunningham proved that QB's aren't supposed to take that kind of beating--and I believe that Randall Cunningham is bigger than Vick.

Here's another thing--Vick is only 6'0, 215. That's wayyyyyy too smallish. No wonder why Vick has to "unnecessarily" scramble--HE CAN'T f**king SEE OVER HIS LINEMAN!!! He's like Doug "The Miracle" Flutie--You have to design passing lanes in Offensive Pass Blocking Schemes. I'll make a bet that the 6'0 thing is exaggerated.

[Barbarian]

And that brings me to Arnold the barbarians philosophy with Thomlinson. Yes i think hes a great runningback, mb the best running back to build a franchise around, but the question was what is the best player to build a franchise around, its definately a QB, and the one to do it is peyton. A runningback cannot decide what plays to call, to change a play if he sees a certain defense, runs the show, its the QB. If u have to build a team from scratch and start with 1 pick in the first round, its Peyton hands down. Thomlinson would be like the 3rd-4th pick after brady.

LT cant take u anywhere alone, look at san diego.

Peyton MADE the playoffs with a s**tty defense like san diego's....wanna reassess your vote arnold?

bow down biches :-D

Pditty,

NO!!! I do not want to reassess my pick. I don't want Peyton "Choke-Artist" Manning running the show.

Give me the WORKHORSE, LT. You build Franchises around great runners, Offensive Lines, and Defensive Lines. If my Offense lets LT run for 150 per game, then I don't need to throw the ball!!! I have the clock management on my side and TOP.

Plus, my QB--let's just say TRENT DILROD can throw to Tomlinson coming out of the backfield 100 times. That is worth the weight of an NFL contract!!!

Pditty, are you sure your last name doesn't rhyme with "down"???

[B24]

I'd like to pick a quarterback, but not one of the two on this list.

Manning - I'd pick him if I could get another QB to take over in the playoffs.

Brady - I think he's a product of the Pats system. I don't think he'd do very well in any other system.

From the list I'd go with either Chad or LT. I'll vote LT so I don't look like too much of a homer.

[bengalsfan33]

Barbarian, your exactly right. Thats what I was trying to say in my post that you have to build a team around a great RB and LT is the rusher that I would want to build around. He's young and talented and is just going to get even better.

[jditty47]

more great QB's have won a SB than great RB's. Great RB's are a dime a dozen...theres like 20 in the league now that can make the playoffs if they had a decent team around them...look at dillon...we built the team around him what that get us? RB ISNT THE BEST PICK AT FIRST PICK IN A FANTASY DRAFT THAT IS REAL!!!!!

Thomlinson did all that last year for what? Hes like dillon, a player that is great when theres no pressure around him. Put him on a good team and see how well he does....we'll see it with dillon this year. If NE doesnt win the SB, that is my case and point.

ya u build your franchises around OLines and DLines but thats not the question...why must u sidetrack from the question? Every post u sidetrack!!!

You like to argue everything but the question that started this thread, and mb with all your points u are correct, except for the question at hand...sorry u lose:(

QB is the hardest position to play, and the hardest to fill, look how long it took the bengals to fill it...and we arent even sure if its filled yet until the season hits.

LT is a great back to start a team with, but not as great as a great QB that can lead u.

Would you rather have Montana/Elway/Marino/Starr/Bradshaw to build around in their prime or Payton/Sanders/Smith/etc??? Im sure u'd pick Montana.

Sorry arnold, u have failed once again, keep trying though bucko!!!!

[Barbarian]

more great QB's have won a SB than great RB's. Great RB's are a dime a dozen...theres like 20 in the league now that can make the playoffs if they had a decent team around them...look at dillon...we built the team around him what that get us? RB ISNT THE BEST PICK AT FIRST PICK IN A FANTASY DRAFT THAT IS REAL!!!!!

Thomlinson did all that last year for what? Hes like dillon, a player that is great when theres no pressure around him. Put him on a good team and see how well he does....we'll see it with dillon this year. If NE doesnt win the SB, that is my case and point.

ya u build your franchises around OLines and DLines but thats not the question...why must u sidetrack from the question? Every post u sidetrack!!!

You like to argue everything but the question that started this thread, and mb with all your points u are correct, except for the question at hand...sorry u lose:(

QB is the hardest position to play, and the hardest to fill, look how long it took the bengals to fill it...and we arent even sure if its filled yet until the season hits.

LT is a great back to start a team with, but not as great as a great QB that can lead u.

Would you rather have Montana/Elway/Marino/Starr/Bradshaw to build around in their prime or Payton/Sanders/Smith/etc??? Im sure u'd pick Montana.

Sorry arnold, u have failed once again, keep trying though bucko!!!!

Pditty,

NO!!! I wouldn't. I would pick Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Emmitt Smith, or Jim Brown.

The QBs you listed--Montana/Elway/Marino/Starr/Bradshaw:

Montana wouldn't be jacks**t if you put him on the Arizona Cardinals right now--yeah, in his prime. With San Francisco, he had one of the most underrated RBs in NFL History--ROGER CRAIG--a guy that had 1,000 yards rushing and 1,000 yards receiving in the same year.

Elway--Didn't win s**t until he had Terrell Davis behind him. As you notice, Elway, before his teams won those Super Bowls, was always beaten because of HIS TEAMS' LACK OF A RUNNING GAME!!!!

Marino--he never won s**t because of LACK OF A RUNNING GAME!!! He even had 2 of the best receivers to ever play the game in Mark Clayton and Mark Duper--IN THEIR PRIMES!!!!

Bart Starr--had Jim Taylor!!! Bart Starr also had one of the best defenses in the NFL during their Super Bowl runs.

Bradshaw??? Are you kidding me??? This guy is Boomer Esiason--only with one of the best defenses the NFL has ever seen backing him up. Bradshaw could be the most overrated QB the NFL has ever seen. He had Franco Harris and Rocky Blier (2 1,000 yard rushers in the same year!!!) behind him.

We can go further--Warren Moon (if he spent his entire career in the NFL) would probably have over 60,000 passing yards--but since he never handed off to a good running back, he doesn't have a ring.

"more great QB's have won a SB than great RB's."

Obviously, you don't know your NFL History. Let me take you back--Jim Taylor, Franco Harris, Rocky Blier, Larry Csonka, John Riggins, Roger Craig, Joe Morris, Otis Anderson, Emmitt Smith, Clarence Davis, Walter Payton, Marcus Allen, Ricky Watters (10,000 yard rusher), Terrell Davis.

I think that's a bit longer than your piddly list.

[ckj414]

Yes, but Remember Montana had Roger Craig, Jerry Rice, and John Taylor.

I don't put Troy Brown, Antoine Smith, and David Givens on their level...

But Montana didn't have the Patriots' defense either. I think it all evens out.