Rumor - 2nd Round pick for Haynesworth

[BengalPimp]

you consider the "Chad lovers" to be idiots. Why get into an argument with an idiot

there is the matter that a less frequent reader (who does not know what kind of posters JoeWrong/agreen/gizz;e/whurchadat/pushy/etc are) reads this stuff, and if it remains unchallenged, takes that as a generally accepted opinion here. The smarter ones among such folks will immediately chalk up this board as a low quality band of homers, which we certainly aren't. The more naive folks might actually come to believe such lunacy as 'Chad is a top 5 receiver right now', and that's just downright bad.

So such statements should be refuted.

OH, Now I understand....... TJ only has this site's best intentions in mind.

[ArmyBengal]

I don't think it has anything at all to do with being an idiot on either side of the debate. I simply see it as Chad continuing to hold a place in some fans hearts that he no longer holds in others who once loved him. The only thing that irritates me is the continued thought that Chad is top 5. He's not, no matter how much you love him, but I still think he will have a solid season.

[BengalPimp]

Personally, I still like Chad. I still think he's a very good receiver, but he is definitely not top 5 anymore. I don't know that he is still Top 10, but if he's not, he isn't very far off. That said, I think he's still capable of 80+ receptions and about 1,200 yds or so.

[ArmyBengal]

I think he's still capable of 80+ receptions and about 1,200 yds or so.

And if he actually does that or remotely close, there won't be much complaining.

That is until the cycle starts again. Such is life huh ??

[BengalPimp]

yup

[Ickey44]

Well, I'm glad we're all at a happy place now.

[TJJackson]

I feel like gathering around a campfire and singing kumbaya with you all now

no hugging, tho

[HairOnFire]

First, unless you have a time machine lodged in your ass that first rounder ain't happening.

Sure it would. In fact, I'm guessing a straight trade for future draft picks would net even more than my conservative guess. Regardless, to account for Chad's past douchebaggery I've made the 1st round pick conditional, and reduced the sweetner to almost nothing. Finally, as any trade for draft picks would involve future picks I started at 2nd round value and then added a bump to account for the Bengals getting no immediate return.

As for players (Haynesworth specifically), it's probably the only deal that could happen - as you say, a douchebag for a douchebag.

Which explains very well why I haven't bothered mentioning any trade proposal that doesn't involve Albert Haynesworth. And I mention Chad only because he's the player I want to trade most, his age and contract status make him the most obvious choice, and he represents equal trade value.

But I'm tempted to think that if it had legs it would have already happened.

Right now the Redskins are standing pat while Haynesworth holds out, as all teams would do. That said, if Haynesworth doesn't report to minicamp in a few weeks things could change quickly.

By the way, thanks for the bit with the nuns, were you traumatized in Catholic school or what?

Not at all. But I wasn't known for falling asleep in class and I do happen to know the origins of the old saying..."Don't cut off your nose to spite your face"...and I didn't think it was being used properly. Because nobody is suggesting the Bengals wound themselves in the mistaken belief that doing so will prompt their enemies to show mercy. Rather, I'm suggesting the Bengals get something in return from Chad's remaining trade value. Specifically, Albert Haynesworth.

I'm tempted to roll the dice with Chad.

Fair enough. That said, isn't it amazing how the only player on the team who admitted to tanking a season is the only player most Bengal fans adamantly refuse to consider trading?

[HairOnFire]

I don't think it has anything at all to do with being an idiot on either side of the debate. I simply see it as Chad continuing to hold a place in some fans hearts that he no longer holds in others who once loved him.

Just to be clear, I haven't called anyone any names and IMHO haven't acted as an anonymous internet bully.

Granted, I do take a little bit of guilty pleasure from watching so many fans PLEAD for an end to the Chad bashing to end, but in my defense....I say their core problem is with the ManWhore, not me.

Bottom Line: We're probably not moving on until he does.

[membengal]

I guess...it just feels like the movie Groundhog's Day in here. It seems like a lot of threads end up with this same argument.

Word. And it is sooo tedious.

[HairOnFire]

I guess...it just feels like the movie Groundhog's Day in here. It seems like a lot of threads end up with this same argument.

Word. And it is sooo tedious.

No apologies.

In fact, if you don't like the topic....start a new one.

Or have both of you forgotten how?

[TJJackson]

I guess...it just feels like the movie Groundhog's Day in here. It seems like a lot of threads end up with this same argument.

Word. And it is sooo tedious.

Keep in mind that it is equally tedious from my perspective to keep hearing what a great WR and person Chad is

i'd be just as happy as ya'all if it never comes up again

[membengal]

I guess...it just feels like the movie Groundhog's Day in here. It seems like a lot of threads end up with this same argument.

Word. And it is sooo tedious.

No apologies.

In fact, if you don't like the topic....start a new one.

Or have both of you forgotten how?

I have not. Just not a lot to talk about now. Which explains year three of a group of you engaged in a massive circle jerk over an idiot. I just would have guessed at some point a few of you smarter types would have gotten tired of typing the same damn things at each other. One group thinks he does no wrong and cannot be convinced otherwise. Another group seems to think he is the devil. The truth is he's an idiot, but apparently a lovable one to Bengals management, so he's still here. And will be. Whether we like it or not.

So I hope he shows at camp in kinda football shape and can help. Because that's all I can do at this point.

[HoosierCat]

I guess...it just feels like the movie Groundhog's Day in here. It seems like a lot of threads end up with this same argument.

Word. And it is sooo tedious.

No apologies.

In fact, if you don't like the topic....start a new one.

Or have both of you forgotten how?

I have not. Just not a lot to talk about now. Which explains year three of a group of you engaged in a massive circle jerk over an idiot. I just would have guessed at some point a few of you smarter types would have gotten tired of typing the same damn things at each other. One group thinks he does no wrong and cannot be convinced otherwise. Another group seems to think he is the devil. The truth is he's an idiot, but apparently a lovable one to Bengals management, so he's still here. And will be. Whether we like it or not.

So I hope he shows at camp in kinda football shape and can help. Because that's all I can do at this point.

A little musical background for the above conversation...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1wdAoSulm8

[ArmyBengal]

That is what is irritating about this particular thread. Chad only came into the thread by way of the original topic and some how we morphed into another "Chad is a top 5 WR" and "Chad is a complete f*ckhead" thread. I happened to like the second option more, but that's not the conversation. It's how he should or shouldn't be viewed in relation to ANY trade. It's a good thought in that it strikes up conversation in that regard, but as I've said many times in this thread, it more than likely won't happen. It's just conversation people and there isn't anything else going on right now.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Sure it would. In fact, I'm guessing a straight trade for future draft picks...and then added a bump to account for the Bengals getting no immediate return.

That raises another issue - considering the state of the team, age of some players, coaching contract status, etc - do you play for this year? It's occurred to me, and is a reason I'm a little hesitant to trade Chad for picks. But in general, I'm still not sure I see Chad netting as much as you do; we've seen vets go for not so much lately. I'll agree to disagree there until we have evidence.

If Haynesworth doesn't report to minicamp in a few weeks things could change quickly.

Does Chad's value also decrease since he'll have to learn a new offense - something he's never had to do as a pro - in very little time? I suppose that disadvantage could be offset by the quantity of pork rinds that Haynesworth is probably consuming. Ultimately I'd be OK (but not thrilled) with a AH/CO trade, as I don't think we've had a DT that was much better than average since Tim Krumrie. But it's a roll of the dice in a few different ways - which Haynesworth do we get, and do our WR step up?

Fair enough. That said, isn't it amazing how the only player on the team who admitted to tanking a season is the only player most Bengal fans adamantly refuse to consider trading?

I can't speak for others - I don't 'adamantly refuse to trade him'. I do worry about trading him when we have exactly 0 other proven receivers. I also think his trade value is lower than you do, so that affects my math. So I'd like to be rid of him, I trust him about as much as Shayne Graham under pressure, and I wish we would have gotten rid of him 2 years ago. But here we are.

Put it this way - I sincerely hope our current receiving corps shows enough this year that we can plan on a Chad-less 2011. That work for you?

[Ickey44]

I guess...it just feels like the movie Groundhog's Day in here. It seems like a lot of threads end up with this same argument.

Word. And it is sooo tedious.

No apologies.

In fact, if you don't like the topic....start a new one.

Or have both of you forgotten how?

I have not. Just not a lot to talk about now. Which explains year three of a group of you engaged in a massive circle jerk over an idiot. I just would have guessed at some point a few of you smarter types would have gotten tired of typing the same damn things at each other. One group thinks he does no wrong and cannot be convinced otherwise. Another group seems to think he is the devil. The truth is he's an idiot, but apparently a lovable one to Bengals management, so he's still here. And will be. Whether we like it or not.

So I hope he shows at camp in kinda football shape and can help. Because that's all I can do at this point.

x2

[HairOnFire]

I guess...it just feels like the movie Groundhog's Day in here. It seems like a lot of threads end up with this same argument.

Word. And it is sooo tedious.

No apologies.

In fact, if you don't like the topic....start a new one.

Or have both of you forgotten how?

I have not. Just not a lot to talk about now.

So you've got nothing to say, but still.....you criticize. Props.

Which explains year three of a group of you engaged in a massive circle jerk over an idiot.

Perhaps, but if true it's also a massive circle jerk you stumbled upon....and then jumped into the middle of.

[HairOnFire]

That is what is irritating about this particular thread. Chad only came into the thread by way of the original topic and some how we morphed into another "Chad is a top 5 WR" and "Chad is a complete f*ckhead" thread.

No, what's irritating is how often Chad threads turn into poster on poster combat. As for debating whether Chad is still a top WR or a complete f**khead, I say those topics are fair game, and exactly the type of stuff you'd expect to find on a football messageboard. And the same thing goes for wild trade rumors and endless speculation.

It's just conversation people and there isn't anything else going on right now.

VH1's Manwhore will soon change that.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

No, what's irritating is how often Chad threads turn into poster on poster combat. As for debating whether Chad is still a top WR or a complete f**khead, I say those topics are fair game, and exactly the type of stuff you'd expect to find on a football messageboard. And the same thing goes for wild trade rumors and endless speculation.

Amen. Especially since this is - again - early June. And the whole issue is actually fairly important - WR is a position of depth but weakness, and DT has been a weak spot since Time Krumrie's leg turned into Jello. And that's just looking at it rationally.

VH1's Manwhore will soon change that.

I'd give at least $10 to move that to HBO. Seeing Chad get shut down by that chick he danced with on Dancing with the Stars was hilarious; if he gets denied by women on his own show reality TV may never be the same.

[HairOnFire]

Sure it would. In fact, I'm guessing a straight trade for future draft picks...and then added a bump to account for the Bengals getting no immediate return.

That raises another issue - considering the state of the team, age of some players, coaching contract status, etc - do you play for this year?

Yeah, I think you do. In fact, I think the open window of opportunity is the only valid reason for NOT trading Chad, be it for Haynesworth, draft picks, or simply for a moment of peace.

But in general, I'm still not sure I see Chad netting as much as you do; we've seen vets go for not so much lately. I'll agree to disagree there until we have evidence.

But again, you already have some evidence as Daniel Snyder has attempted to trade for Chad, and has made an actual offer slightly greater than my projection. So on the matter of picks I think I'm on solid ground, if not conservative. More importantly, I think a straight up Chad for Albert trade is fair and desirable for both parties.

Does Chad's value also decrease since he'll have to learn a new offense - something he's never had to do as a pro - in very little time?

Well, does Chad's value increase because Dan Snyder's problems at WR haven't been solved yet, and may in fact be worse than ever?

Ultimately I'd be OK (but not thrilled) with a AH/CO trade, as I don't think we've had a DT that was much better than average since Tim Krumrie.

Haynesworth may be a problem child in his own right, but as a DT he's unique enough that I'd love to see the Bengals jump into any trade talk that may develope down the road. And IMHO that interest should include trading Chad for Albert....due in large part to the previous interest Dan Snyder has shown in acquiring Chad.

I can't speak for others - I don't 'adamantly refuse to trade him'. I do worry about trading him when we have exactly 0 other proven receivers.

And I worry about the Bengals building their brand new passing game around the oldest skill position player on the roster, a player who also carries a reputation for emotional instability and grossly unprofessional conduct.

Put it this way - I sincerely hope our current receiving corps shows enough this year that we can plan on a Chad-less 2011. That work for you?

Not if Albert Haynesworth becomes available.

Not kidding.

[ArmyBengal]

That is what is irritating about this particular thread. Chad only came into the thread by way of the original topic and some how we morphed into another "Chad is a top 5 WR" and "Chad is a complete f*ckhead" thread.

No, what's irritating is how often Chad threads turn into poster on poster combat. As for debating whether Chad is still a top WR or a complete f**khead, I say those topics are fair game, and exactly the type of stuff you'd expect to find on a football messageboard. And the same thing goes for wild trade rumors and endless speculation.

I was referring to the extremes of either line of thought, but that's cool and I agree with having the conversation.

It's the knowing the extremes are going to creep in there.

I'm still in great support of at least considering Chad as trade potential for many, if not all of the reasons already given.

No need in repeating all over again.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

But again, you already have some evidence as Daniel Snyder has attempted to trade for Chad, and has made an actual offer slightly greater than my projection. So on the matter of picks I think I'm on solid ground, if not conservative. More importantly, I think a straight up Chad for Albert trade is fair and desirable for both parties.

I don't think he meddles in year 1 with a new coach and GM, and I don't think Shanny makes the trade. We're agreed that *if* Chad goes anywhere it's in my direction, I just don't think it will happen at all. But fire up your popcorn, because soon Fat Albert will probably report to camp and either be a happy...camper, or not.

Well, does Chad's value increase because Dan Snyder's problems at WR haven't been solved yet...previous interest Dan Snyder has shown in acquiring Chad.

Hasn't been as much made about it lately that I've heard. I think the local yokels see McNabb as their lord and savior. I think they think they're set. Now me, I'd be shopping for some toys to accessorize my new QB, but Redskins fans and front office are famous for their abilities of denial.

And I worry about the Bengals building their brand new passing game around the oldest skill position player on the roster, a player who also carries a reputation for emotional instability and grossly unprofessional conduct.

I don't think you do. If things go well, I see Chad as *a* receiver, not *the* receiver. Those days are past, I'll readily concede. But I think he still adds value, and we don't know if the recent pick ups and young guys - Bryant, Jones, Calwell, Shipley, Cosby, dare I say Simpson? - are ready to step up. Basically, Chad's a crappy insurance policy, in a way. And yes, I hate being in this position, don't get me wrong.

In fact, the one thing that would make me willing to ship his ass out of town for not much in return would be if he can't accept not being the first, second, and third option anymore. Because what we know now is that if Darrelle Revis had a show where he invited 24 b*tches on, Chad would be one of them.

[ArmyBengal]

Because what we know now is that if Darrelle Revis had a show where he invited 24 b*tches on, Chad would be one of them.

DAAAAAAAAAAAMN !!!

Well done sir.

[BengalPimp]

I guess...it just feels like the movie Groundhog's Day in here. It seems like a lot of threads end up with this same argument.

Word. And it is sooo tedious.

No apologies.

In fact, if you don't like the topic....start a new one.

Or have both of you forgotten how?

I have not. Just not a lot to talk about now. Which explains year three of a group of you engaged in a massive circle jerk over an idiot. I just would have guessed at some point a few of you smarter types would have gotten tired of typing the same damn things at each other. One group thinks he does no wrong and cannot be convinced otherwise. Another group seems to think he is the devil. The truth is he's an idiot, but apparently a lovable one to Bengals management, so he's still here. And will be. Whether we like it or not.

So I hope he shows at camp in kinda football shape and can help. Because that's all I can do at this point.

A little musical background for the above conversation...

Dude......Did you just post DISCO ??????