Naming Carson As Starter Was Smart

[walzav29]

There are 2 things that stick out to me from last year about Kitna. His interception against Denver when he was wrapped up and threw it up. (Returned for Touchdown) and in the last game right before halftime against Cleveland. That horrible clock management. That is just how Kitna is. Some guys have it (Brady, Montana) some guys don't (Kitna, DeBerg, Testaverde) Don't get teased. The real shot at greatness is Palmer.

[wookie]

Kitna may have made a few mistakes last year, but so did every other QB in the league...when they were playing. Kitna also was responsible for the Bengals winning some games they could have lost (last second TD pass vs Pittsburgh) and his "D" didn't do much to help him at the end of the season. I agree that IF Palmer can live up to the expectations we all have about him then he is the right choice for a starter.

One thing he will be able to do is open up the field more with his arm strength, and I believe he has better accuracy. Still, I think we'll see him make rookie mistakes like trying to force the ball into triple coverage cause he thinks the corners won't be able to knock it down or intercept it. We saw him do that in preseason last year and just because he has a year of carrying a clipboard around and learning doesn't mean that he won't have to start learning all over again when he gets onto the field.

I'm glad they retained Kitna, it will take some of the pressure off Palmer, and give the Bengals someone to go to if the season starts to slip away.

[bengalsfan33]

If Palmer does bad we can always put Litna back into the starting role. Let's just give Palmer a chance. he may surprise alot of us and be a great QB.

[Kirkendall]

Sorry. Kitna helped us win more than lost. National media didn't throw his name around as the possible MVP, Pro-Bowl Quarterback with awards of November Offensive Player of the Month and Comeback Player of the Year Award for nothing...

I still think that Palmer is the future, but Kitna got jobbed because of finances... no more.

[walzav29]

I'd imagine that you are wrong on that statement. They were 8-8 last year and I'll guarantee that if you check the stats they have lost more than they have won with him starting.

[Barbarian]

I'd imagine that you are wrong on that statement. They were 8-8 last year and I'll guarantee that if you check the stats they have lost more than they have won with him starting.

You're checking the wrong statistics on the wrong side of the ball, pal. Check out "Yardage on the Ground allowed" for all those games lost--and you will see a glaring statistic on why the Bungles lost those games.

Example #1: Arizona

Example #2: Denver

Example #3: Baltimore #2

Example #4: St. Louis

Example #5: Cleveland #2

How do you let Suggs rush for almost 200 yards on you, when you could be playoff bound??? That's the Bungles for ya.

[B24]

I'd imagine that you are wrong on that statement. They were 8-8 last year and I'll guarantee that if you check the stats they have lost more than they have won with him starting.

I think what Josh was meaning is that Kitna helped the Bengals win more games than he caused us to lose. Not positive, but that was my take on it.

However, the QB is more often than not going to take the fall for losses. Kitna lost his job based on his play in the two seasons previous to 2003. The only thing that may have saved him would have been a playoff berth last season.

[HoosierCat]

Kitna lost his job based on his play in the two seasons previous to 2003.

There it is. And yes, there were mitigating circumstances, especially in 2002 with LeBeau's three-headed QB debacle, but the bottom line is that Kitna did little to help his own cause until 2003. And by then, of course, it was too late; having spent the No. 1 pick on the QB of the Future, his demotion was almost inevitable. Myself, I'm not sure anything short of a Lombardi Trophy would have stopped it.

[Kirkendall]

Kitna lost his job based on his play in the two seasons previous to 2003.

There it is. And yes, there were mitigating circumstances, especially in 2002 with LeBeau's three-headed QB debacle, but the bottom line is that Kitna did little to help his own cause until 2003. And by then, of course, it was too late; having spent the No. 1 pick on the QB of the Future, his demotion was almost inevitable. Myself, I'm not sure anything short of a Lombardi Trophy would have stopped it.

I agree for the most part Joisey (holy CRAP!)..

However, I think Kitna gets dumped on by everyone for "not being a winner". I think in the 2001 season, he didn't have the supporting cast to throw to.. you have Darney Scott who I don't think even has a job this season, Danny Farmer, TJ (hahaha), a young Chad Johnson, Malcolm Johnson, and a disappointing Peter Warrick. The tight ends? THey get worse. Battaglia, McGee (whom I actually liked in his day) and McMullen.

Then you have the 2002 season, which you pointed out, that three quarterbacks who had no idea if they were starting or not per week. Plus, defensively, we gave up the most points then the entire league.

But it's all mute now anyway... still a fun off-season topic to talk about though.

[witt-tiger29]

my opinion is this is a move that will enable the bengals take it to a playoff level of football...kitna had the best year of his career (and i dont think he will ever match that level of play) but sadly we could only muster an 8-8 record...i have to believe that marvin lewis thinks the team got as far as they could with kitna (his meltdown at the end of the season solidifies my opinion)...with an improved defense this year (i was under the impression he was a defensive coach by the way), i am hoping the pressure will be off carson late in the game and we can rely on our running backs to carry the load and move the chains...this being said, if carson struggles i think it is still helpful to keep with him as our starter and not let him lose his confidence and go down the akili road again...

[BengalByTheBay]

This is really the $64K question for this off-season as far as what I hear from non-Bengal fans about the team. However, it really seems to be consistent with Marvin's approach last year of naming Kit b/f the season started and then sticking with him. Just like I thought that was a good call last season, I think this is the right one this year. However, it's inherently one of those time-will-tell deals. I do find it refreshing to have the head coach make an early decision -- stick with it -- and then take the heat when things get chippy (remember Kit's opening day performance vs. Denver last season -- yikes!). There's no doubt in my mind that there will be some of those moments with CP and the second-guessers will be out in force (like that jackass Michael Irvin). Keep the faith fans.

[BadLuck]

Look, Kitna has a tendency to panic and he has a very, very weak arm. Palmer will, if not this year, soon give us the best chance to win... But he won't arrive there if he doesn't practice. This year is not intended to be the year of the Bengal, next year is. We'll have a great cap situation, our young players will have matured into season veterans and our team will have had plenty of time to get used to the new-look Bengals with their new-look systems.

The goal is a superbowl season in 2005... 2004 is the maturation of the man that will get us there. And it's not Kitna. Kitna is a very lucky man to have the offensive line he does, the receivers he does and the running game he does. I'm not saying he didn't do an excellent job, I'm just saying Palmer will do a better one. But to do that, it's required that he play a few games.

[bengalsfansince68]

I still think that Palmer is the future, but Kitna got jobbed because of finances... no more.

Josh. you continue to cling to this Kitna got jobbed because of finances argument,

Frankly, I think you miss the big picture.

While no one is saying that Kitna was soley responsible for the losses, the fact remains that he came within two picks of averaging two ints and one fumble while averaging aproximately 0.8 tds in the losses. Two picks, a fumble and less than 1 td is hardly a perscription for winning football games.

Check Kitna's career numbers. The fact is that he has been little more than mediocre throught his career, the 8 wins in 2003 aside.

Maybe Carson will not be the answer. In my opinion Kitna has proven throughout his career that he is not. I believe that Carson will be the answer and it is time to find out.

In five years, you guys won't be able to remember Kitna's name.

[redsfan2]

I still think that Palmer is the future, but Kitna got jobbed because of finances... no more.

Josh. you continue to cling to this Kitna got jobbed because of finances argument,

Frankly, I think you miss the big picture.

While no one is saying that Kitna was soley responsible for the losses, the fact remains that he came within two picks of averaging two ints and one fumble while averaging aproximately 0.8 tds in the losses. Two picks, a fumble and less than 1 td is hardly a perscription for winning football games.

Check Kitna's career numbers. The fact is that he has been little more than mediocre throught his career, the 8 wins in 2003 aside.

Maybe Carson will not be the answer. In my opinion Kitna has proven throughout his career that he is not. I believe that Carson will be the answer and it is time to find out.

In five years, you guys won't be able to remember Kitna's name.

Have to disagree ...... but just a little bit.

#1 Finances did play a part in Palmer getting the starting job. It wasn't the only factor, but to say that it didn't figure into the decision is just not realistic.

#2 Kitnas stats in the losses. They're bad, but so are everybody elses'. No running game ..... no defense ....... not a hell of a lot of play calling ie coaching .... you name it. As to his career numbers, he was doing pretty well in Seattle ( good enough to get a big contract ) till the coaching change. He did get jobbed there, and was honest enough to say he carried a grudge about it. You'll notice ( Kirk ) that he's made no such comment here about Palmer. Best description for Kitna is Above Average. Better than mediocre, but not consistent enough to be Good.

#3 Kitna will be remembered in 5 years because he'll be somebodys' assistant. I think he's natural to move into the coaching ranks after his playing career ( which will end in Cincinnati at the end of his current contract ).

[Kirkendall]

Josh. you continue to cling to this Kitna got jobbed because of finances argument,

Frankly, I think you miss the big picture.

No, I didn't miss the big picture. Let me say again, I think Carson is the future, there's no doubt about it. Carson should have won the position on the field and not because of paycheck.

This is something that's happened in football the past 10 years.. before you had to earn your stripes (no pun), and now it's not like that anymore. High priced QBs are more protected than ever, the game has been commercialized by big business greedists and maybe that translates to my feeling towards Palmer getting a "free pass" to start. First round draft picks make tons of money on signing bonuses alone. It's a trend that's going to get worse.

I'm more worried about the future of the game losing steam and (in some cases) legitimacy because unproven, yet highly athletic talent is taking the game over that care more about $, chicks, and (in some cases) drugs over how the game should be played and respecting that history. A pre-cursor to the NBA? That's debatable, but I think you could take either side of it and that should be more worrisome.

(I think I'm getting a litte deep)

[redsfan2]

Josh. you continue to cling to this Kitna got jobbed because of finances argument,

Frankly, I think you miss the big picture.

No, I didn't miss the big picture. Let me say again, I think Carson is the future, there's no doubt about it. Carson should have won the position on the field and not because of paycheck.

This is something that's happened in football the past 10 years.. before you had to earn your stripes (no pun), and now it's not like that anymore. High priced QBs are more protected than ever, the game has been commercialized by big business greedists and maybe that translates to my feeling towards Palmer getting a "free pass" to start. First round draft picks make tons of money on signing bonuses alone. It's a trend that's going to get worse.

I'm more worried about the future of the game losing steam and (in some cases) legitimacy because unproven, yet highly athletic talent is taking the game over that care more about $, chicks, and (in some cases) drugs over how the game should be played and respecting that history. A pre-cursor to the NBA? That's debatable, but I think you could take either side of it and that should be more worrisome.

(I think I'm getting a litte deep)

You're point is well taken, but I think it's not something that can seriously damage the game. What you're describing can be summed up with the word hype. The bad news is you're right. It's there and prevalent. The good news is ... hype just don't last .... talent and good play do.

It takes a while sometimes, ( see NBA ) but eventually people catch on. Football is healthy and growing .... just don't move one of our franchises to Mexico City.

[BengalByTheBay]

Good points all around. Kirkendall, I just wanted to point out that, leaguewide concerns apart, I definitely didn't want to see the Bengals going into camp with a QB derby ala the Clowns last year and Bengals the year prior. The fact is that Marvin is one of those coaches who picks his horse before camp. He did it last year, and he did it this year. He knows how debilitating and disruptive the QB situation can be. Well, maybe that is one of those changes from the old game. But I think it's a reality -- proven over and over again. You just can't let the new guy play his way into the spot when the spot is QB. He's gotta get in there and do it. So, I do think Marvin did it right. The kid has to take his lumps and whether you call Kitna above average or mediocre -- he aint the second coming of Boomer. Maybe the kid is (fingers firmly crossed).

[Kirkendall]

I agree... I was just giving you guys something to munch on.

[bengalsfansince68]

Kirk

I must say that I do not recall all this fuss over Marvin naming Kitna the starter early last year

Naming Kitna the starter last year was the right thing to do as naming Carson the starter this year is the right thing to do.

When I say that I think that you miss the big picture, I mean that you are missing the many flaws in Kitna's game. He has a weak arm and often times his decision making is very poor. Marvin sees them.

Kitna makes a good backup QB. Kitna has never been a great starting QB and in my opinion, he never will be. Look at his career numbers. If he was such a good starter teams would be lined up around the block making offers. As far as I know, there were none.

[bengalsfansince68]

Better than mediocre, but not consistent enough to be Good.

Kitna will be remembered in 5 years because he'll be somebodys' assistant. I think he's natural to move into the coaching ranks after his playing career ( which will end in Cincinnati at the end of his current contract ).

If he is not good (and I agree by the way), isn't the next step down mediocre?

If he only will be remembered because he becomes a coach, what does that say about his playing days? Sam Wyche is remembered as a coach. That does not mean he was a great starting QB in the NFL.

Thanks for helping to make my point.

[Jungle_Fever]

I vote for smart move. Not a fan of the big K. Guess since I watch all the Bengals games, he is the QB I've seen the most. Some surprising passes but also flub ups. I dont believe I have seen respectable QB choke the way I have seen Kitna choke. Just my opinion on the K.

Im sure you guys have heard it before. How can Palmer get experience unless he plays. We have to bite the bullet at some point. Might as well be now. I like that Carson knows he's the man and he will get all the reps and support to give him a chance to succeed.

Not sure I like K as a safety net. I dont want Carson looking over his shoulder. I also dont think it takes any pressure off of Carson but rather puts pressure on him to have K around. But the K is here to stay apparently and after all, ML knows best.

[Bobcat Bengal]

I wish everyone would stop bringing this up.....

Carson's starting, it will take him a while to get acclimated but I believe he will turn out fine.

One things' for sure, we ain't going 0-4 to start the season....

[mtmeece]

does anybody have last years stats for Tom Brady and if so compare them to Kitna's. bottom line Kitna got jobbed.

[wookie]

Kitna has a knack for playing well in contract years. When his job is on the line and he wants to stick around and get paid he performs better than normal.

Not being in the Cincy area I only got to see him play twice in person. The first time was when he came in for an injured Akili Smith and threw 2 INT's on "deep" balls against the Jets. The Bengals could've, should've, and would've won that game had their QB been able to make the throws. The second time I saw him play was against the dirty birds this past season at home. He made a couple of nice passes on short routes, on pass that I thought was going to be picked because everyone in the stadium but Kitna saw the DB in position to make the play, and a pass that shows what living a relious man's life can get you when he banked one off of Ed Reed into the hands of Chad Johnson for a long TD. He actually did make a nice throw on one of the first plays of the game on a sideline route to Kelly Washington that could have gone the distance, but the dirty birds were playing dirty and Washington's was held so badly that he almost lost his jersey...and it was never called.

That, however, was one of the few nice passes I saw him make. I think that Palmer gives the Bengals the best chance to win if he can come to the understanding that he has a Hell of an offense around him and he doesn't have to do it all by himself. That is what I think Kitna will help him understand. That and knowing that a QB who really knows the system is able to come in if Palmer goes down is why I'm glad that he's still a Bengal.

[BadLuck]

The problem is if you make Palmer win the job fair and square, you can stunt his development. Right now, Kitna probably is better than Palmer... But it won't stay that way for long... but as I said, to GET there, Carson has to start.