Zampese to the Bears?

[gregstephens]

My question is if it's physical, when did it happen? The only thing I noticed was that from the MOMENT Henry was injured this offense changed. And even then there were games game that Palmer threw the ball well, i.e. San Diego.

Throwing off his back foot? Sounds like he was being pressured consistently the last few games, especially against the Jets who may be the best team in the AFC in collapsing the pocket.

Palmer is fine physically. Let's get him into a scheme that he can excell so he can be good, if not great, mentally.

Fixed that for ya'. The San Diego game was THE only game where Palmer looked like the old Palmer.

Not Chicago?

That game was a reflection of how bad the Bears were playing, not a reflection of how great our pass offense was. The Chargers game is the only one I truly saw Palmer resemble his 2005-2006 self.

[gregstephens]

My question is if it's physical, when did it happen? The only thing I noticed was that from the MOMENT Henry was injured this offense changed. And even then there were games game that Palmer threw the ball well, i.e. San Diego.

Throwing off his back foot? Sounds like he was being pressured consistently the last few games, especially against the Jets who may be the best team in the AFC in collapsing the pocket.

Palmer is fine physically. Let's get him into a scheme that he can excell so he can be good, if not great, mentally.

Fixed that for ya'. The San Diego game was THE only game where Palmer looked like the old Palmer.

Not Chicago?

And Chicago was the only game that we balanced the playcalling and took advantage of a great running game. It's a once a year game but I think it's something to reference as far as what this team CAN do.

Then why in the world didn't we manage to do it even once more with some of the other punch-and-judy teams we played this season? Detroit? Cleveland x 2? KC? That shows me the Bears game was aberration. The Chargers game also aberration. Fourteen other games this season demonstrated Palmer's issues. You don't build hope or a foundation on the one or two aberration games that show what this team CAN do.

Sure, Palmer led some amazing fourth quarter comebacks, but if he'd played steady the first three quarters of those games, the heroics wouldn't have been needed. And, second half of the season, no amazing comebacks. Cardiac Cats died off.

[HoosierCat]

You don't build hope or a foundation on the one or two aberration games that show what this team CAN do.

Actually, that's exactly what you do. That's the whole point of a foundation. We know what the team is capable of. Now the question is, how do we replicate it?

My thought is that the Bengals were most effective offensively when they were at their most instinctual. Two minute drills, game on the line, situations where the game plan was simplified and the point was to move the chains.

Outside that, there was too much jumping around. Too many o-line substitutions, too much trying to fit the plays to personnel that didn't match the calls, too many miscues on what ought to have been routine plays. In short, a lack of cohesion - which is exactly what I expected going into a season with so much upheaval on offense. And it never got solved. I understand completely why one of the first things Marvin has said is that next year, there's less of the unbalanced line. There's too much stuff going on on offense, with too may guys who lack experience.

Reps, and the confidence that comes with them, were the biggest problems this team had this year. There are talent issues, no question. But the greatest problem this team had all year was getting out of its own way. The Bengals just need to settle down and play ball.

[gregstephens]

You don't build hope or a foundation on the one or two aberration games that show what this team CAN do.

Actually, that's exactly what you do. That's the whole point of a foundation. We know what the team is capable of. Now the question is, how do we replicate it?

My thought is that the Bengals were most effective offensively when they were at their most instinctual. Two minute drills, game on the line, situations where the game plan was simplified and the point was to move the chains.

Outside that, there was too much jumping around. Too many o-line substitutions, too much trying to fit the plays to personnel that didn't match the calls, too many miscues on what ought to have been routine plays. In short, a lack of cohesion - which is exactly what I expected going into a season with so much upheaval on offense. And it never got solved. I understand completely why one of the first things Marvin has said is that next year, there's less of the unbalanced line. There's too much stuff going on on offense, with too may guys who lack experience.

Reps, and the confidence that comes with them, were the biggest problems this team had this year. There are talent issues, no question. But the greatest problem this team had all year was getting out of its own way. The Bengals just need to settle down and play ball.

That's not what you do. You do not build on something that happens once or twice in sixteen tries. That is the blind squirrel/nut theory, or a casino mentality. I hit the jackpot on the slots once in twenty spins, so I keep losing my money in there because I know I hit once.

Watching the body of work over sixteen complete games this year, the only consistent piece of the offense we can build on is the running game. There is nothing right now that gives me hope about the passing part of it, even if we got to see glimpses of greatness in one or two games.

So, what is the answer based on your post? Do you take the same receivers and same line, virually unchanged, and play them again next season to build the reps and confidence, or do you go out there and focus on offensive drafting in the shape of a receiver and a stud lineman? What about free agency? Do you pursue an Anquan Boldin, or just hope an Andre Caldwell will finally turn into that decent slot guy or even number 2? Do you keep letting Brat grind the same organ, or can him and find someone that can hopefully coach these guys and solve these problems?

[cincyhokie]

My question is if it's physical, when did it happen? The only thing I noticed was that from the MOMENT Henry was injured this offense changed. And even then there were games game that Palmer threw the ball well, i.e. San Diego.

Throwing off his back foot? Sounds like he was being pressured consistently the last few games, especially against the Jets who may be the best team in the AFC in collapsing the pocket.

Palmer is fine physically. Let's get him into a scheme that he can excell so he can be good, if not great, mentally.

Fixed that for ya'. The San Diego game was THE only game where Palmer looked like the old Palmer.

Not Chicago?

And Chicago was the only game that we balanced the playcalling and took advantage of a great running game. It's a once a year game but I think it's something to reference as far as what this team CAN do.

Then why in the world didn't we manage to do it even once more with some of the other punch-and-judy teams we played this season? Detroit? Cleveland x 2? KC? That shows me the Bears game was aberration. The Chargers game also aberration. Fourteen other games this season demonstrated Palmer's issues. You don't build hope or a foundation on the one or two aberration games that show what this team CAN do.

Sure, Palmer led some amazing fourth quarter comebacks, but if he'd played steady the first three quarters of those games, the heroics wouldn't have been needed. And, second half of the season, no amazing comebacks. Cardiac Cats died off.

I don't follow you. So what do we do? Get rid of Palmer? Ignore all the things that we saw him do this past season and in other seasons?

I noticed a few things that changed this year with the offense. Less balance, less passing options for Palmer as evidenced by lack of recieving options and plays.

We should look at what this team can do and has done. IF we can say Palmer is healthy, then the offense itself has to be changed in some way. Unfortunately Palmer cannot be dropped into any offense or any team. What worked for him in the past?

Build the offenses strenghts around the one man who isn't going anywhere. He's the constant not the variable.

[cincyhokie]

You don't build hope or a foundation on the one or two aberration games that show what this team CAN do.

Actually, that's exactly what you do. That's the whole point of a foundation. We know what the team is capable of. Now the question is, how do we replicate it?

My thought is that the Bengals were most effective offensively when they were at their most instinctual. Two minute drills, game on the line, situations where the game plan was simplified and the point was to move the chains.

Outside that, there was too much jumping around. Too many o-line substitutions, too much trying to fit the plays to personnel that didn't match the calls, too many miscues on what ought to have been routine plays. In short, a lack of cohesion - which is exactly what I expected going into a season with so much upheaval on offense. And it never got solved. I understand completely why one of the first things Marvin has said is that next year, there's less of the unbalanced line. There's too much stuff going on on offense, with too may guys who lack experience.

Reps, and the confidence that comes with them, were the biggest problems this team had this year. There are talent issues, no question. But the greatest problem this team had all year was getting out of its own way. The Bengals just need to settle down and play ball.

That's not what you do. You do not build on something that happens once or twice in sixteen tries. That is the blind squirrel/nut theory, or a casino mentality. I hit the jackpot on the slots once in twenty spins, so I keep losing my money in there because I know I hit once.

Watching the body of work over sixteen complete games this year, the only consistent piece of the offense we can build on is the running game. There is nothing right now that gives me hope about the passing part of it, even if we got to see glimpses of greatness in one or two games.

So, what is the answer based on your post? Do you take the same receivers and same line, virually unchanged, and play them again next season to build the reps and confidence, or do you go out there and focus on offensive drafting in the shape of a receiver and a stud lineman? What about free agency? Do you pursue an Anquan Boldin, or just hope an Andre Caldwell will finally turn into that decent slot guy or even number 2? Do you keep letting Brat grind the same organ, or can him and find someone that can hopefully coach these guys and solve these problems?

Again, most are assuming (and me) 2 things. Palmer is physically healthy and he's not going to be released, traded, nor are we drafting or getting a QB through FA.

What needs to change? Palmer seeing a sports psychologist?

[gregstephens]

You don't build hope or a foundation on the one or two aberration games that show what this team CAN do.

Actually, that's exactly what you do. That's the whole point of a foundation. We know what the team is capable of. Now the question is, how do we replicate it?

My thought is that the Bengals were most effective offensively when they were at their most instinctual. Two minute drills, game on the line, situations where the game plan was simplified and the point was to move the chains.

Outside that, there was too much jumping around. Too many o-line substitutions, too much trying to fit the plays to personnel that didn't match the calls, too many miscues on what ought to have been routine plays. In short, a lack of cohesion - which is exactly what I expected going into a season with so much upheaval on offense. And it never got solved. I understand completely why one of the first things Marvin has said is that next year, there's less of the unbalanced line. There's too much stuff going on on offense, with too may guys who lack experience.

Reps, and the confidence that comes with them, were the biggest problems this team had this year. There are talent issues, no question. But the greatest problem this team had all year was getting out of its own way. The Bengals just need to settle down and play ball.

That's not what you do. You do not build on something that happens once or twice in sixteen tries. That is the blind squirrel/nut theory, or a casino mentality. I hit the jackpot on the slots once in twenty spins, so I keep losing my money in there because I know I hit once.

Watching the body of work over sixteen complete games this year, the only consistent piece of the offense we can build on is the running game. There is nothing right now that gives me hope about the passing part of it, even if we got to see glimpses of greatness in one or two games.

So, what is the answer based on your post? Do you take the same receivers and same line, virually unchanged, and play them again next season to build the reps and confidence, or do you go out there and focus on offensive drafting in the shape of a receiver and a stud lineman? What about free agency? Do you pursue an Anquan Boldin, or just hope an Andre Caldwell will finally turn into that decent slot guy or even number 2? Do you keep letting Brat grind the same organ, or can him and find someone that can hopefully coach these guys and solve these problems?

Again, most are assuming (and me) 2 things. Palmer is physically healthy and he's not going to be released, traded, nor are we drafting or getting a QB through FA.

What needs to change? Palmer seeing a sports psychologist?

This one short answer covers both your posts. If he's not 100 percent healthy, as many, including I suspect, get fixed. I still don't understand not taking advantage of eight months off and having the elbow surgery. I don't think his mechanics are off because, after years of playing this game, he's forgotten how to be a quarterback. It really has looked to me that his fluidity of his arm motion is off. Not convinced it's not his elbow.

Now, should I be wrong, and very well could be, and Palmer is 100% healthy, then, no you don't get rid of him. You, getting back to the thread topic itself, let Z walk and try another QB coach. Can it really hurt?

I think that was the initial debate that looped us all the way to here in the first place.

[HairOnFire]

My thought is that the Bengals were most effective offensively when they were at their most instinctual. Two minute drills, game on the line, situations where the game plan was simplified and the point was to move the chains.

That's fair, but ask yourself how the game is REALLY simplfied under those conditions. Granted, the primary consideration is move the ball into scoring position as guickly as possible, but it goes deeper than that. For example, your greatest opponent is no longer the opposing team, but the clock. So the first thing you change is your own gameplan.

And that's what most fans want, right? They see the passing game come to life in the 2-minute drill and wonder why the Bengals don't do more of that kind of thing all of the time. But you can't....because opposing defenses aren't willing to surrender big chunks of yardage just to watch the clock count down a few seconds. And they won't give up the middle of the field as bait because there's no incentive for them to do so.

Outside that, there was too much jumping around. Too many o-line substitutions, too much trying to fit the plays to personnel that didn't match the calls, too many miscues on what ought to have been routine plays.

Agreed, but your own posts touches on the reasons for the above. Lack of talent at key positions. Lack of experience at key positions. And maybe, just maybe, there was too much emphasis placed upon running behind unbalanced blocking schemes that limited the Bengals own ability to pass.

[HairOnFire]

We should look at what this team can do and has done. IF we can say Palmer is healthy, then the offense itself has to be changed in some way.

Wait for it. It's coming. At least I think it is. But that said, before we discard "Smash Ball" to the dust bin....shouldn't we wave a Playoff game rally towel or two in appreciation?

Unfortunately Palmer cannot be dropped into any offense or any team. What worked for him in the past?

What's worked in the past is a high octane attack based upon complex passing schemes, perfect timing, pinpoint throwing ability, and a head coaches steadfast willingness to..."take their breath away." Sadly, while that type of attack may suit Palmer best...it's no longer possible using the players currently on the roster.

Build the offenses strenghts around the one man who isn't going anywhere. He's the constant not the variable.

A fair point, but while its true Palmer isn't going anywhere...it's just as true to say he's no longer the best player on the roster. And neither is Chad. Rather, it's Cedric Benson....and last seasons offense was built around him for that very reason. Furthermore, I believe last seasons offense was also built around Benson precisely because the failure of the passing game was anticipated by the coaching staff.

[jjakq27]

Build the offenses strenghts around the one man who isn't going anywhere. He's the constant not the variable.

A fair point, but while its true Palmer isn't going anywhere...it's just as true to say he's no longer the best player on the roster. And neither is Chad. Rather, it's Cedric Benson....and last seasons offense was built around him for that very reason. Furthermore, I believe last seasons offense was also built around Benson precisely because the failure of the passing game was anticipated by the coaching staff.

I think the absence of Palmer in 2008 was the major reason for this philosophical shift. Putting all of the teams eggs in Carson's basket isn't wise if he can't stay on the field. I think winning with ball control and defense (in potentially harsh conditions) has always been what Marvin has wanted and Carson's injury gave Marvin a perfect opportunity to finally convince Mike.

[cincyhokie]

Unfortunately Palmer cannot be dropped into any offense or any team. What worked for him in the past?

What's worked in the past is a high octane attack based upon complex passing schemes, perfect timing, pinpoint throwing ability, and a head coaches steadfast willingness to..."take their breath away." Sadly, while that type of attack may suit Palmer best...it's no longer possible using the players currently on the roster.

That's exactly what I am saying. And here's where I most concerned. I do not think that Brat has the ability to work Palmer into a balanced offense that can run the ball. I just think it's way past time for him to be gone.

Maybe I'm crazy but I don't get the feeling that Palmer likes playing for Brat or executing his play calls. Maybe it's because of the way he can play when he runs the no-huddle at the line of scrimmage, or maybe it's the comment that Palmer made at the end of 2007 stating that "some changes need to be made in the coaching staff." Anyone remember that one?

Get an new O-coordinator. Improve the receiver positions. In the meantime the fans can continue to discuss this issue by basically saying the same thing in a hundred different ways.

[cincyhokie]

My thought is that the Bengals were most effective offensively when they were at their most instinctual. Two minute drills, game on the line, situations where the game plan was simplified and the point was to move the chains.

That's fair, but ask yourself how the game is REALLY simplfied under those conditions. Granted, the primary consideration is move the ball into scoring position as guickly as possible, but it goes deeper than that. For example, your greatest opponent is no longer the opposing team, but the clock. So the first thing you change is your own gameplan.

And that's what most fans want, right? They see the passing game come to life in the 2-minute drill and wonder why the Bengals don't do more of that kind of thing all of the time. But you can't....because opposing defenses aren't willing to surrender big chunks of yardage just to watch the clock count down a few seconds. And they won't give up the middle of the field as bait because there's no incentive for them to do so.

Right. But what it does show is that Palmer isn't hurt. He can throw the ball. It seems alot of people have a hard time recognizing that more goes into "Palmer's throwing off his backfoot!" than just Palmer. It's a team game trying to execute a gameplan led by a coach.

Again, I think we're all saying pretty much the same thing, well except for Greg, who thinks Palmer is hurt still.

[gregstephens]

My thought is that the Bengals were most effective offensively when they were at their most instinctual. Two minute drills, game on the line, situations where the game plan was simplified and the point was to move the chains.

That's fair, but ask yourself how the game is REALLY simplfied under those conditions. Granted, the primary consideration is move the ball into scoring position as guickly as possible, but it goes deeper than that. For example, your greatest opponent is no longer the opposing team, but the clock. So the first thing you change is your own gameplan.

And that's what most fans want, right? They see the passing game come to life in the 2-minute drill and wonder why the Bengals don't do more of that kind of thing all of the time. But you can't....because opposing defenses aren't willing to surrender big chunks of yardage just to watch the clock count down a few seconds. And they won't give up the middle of the field as bait because there's no incentive for them to do so.

Right. But what it does show is that Palmer isn't hurt. He can throw the ball. It seems alot of people have a hard time recognizing that more goes into "Palmer's throwing off his backfoot!" than just Palmer. It's a team game trying to execute a gameplan led by a coach.

Again, I think we're all saying pretty much the same thing, well except for Greg, who thinks Palmer is hurt still.

I'm saying it's a distinct possibility. No one knows for sure except Palmer. As I stated, if he's healthy, then get him the coaches that can get his game back. If he's not healthy, it needs to be fixed, or this team will always be, at best, a one-and-out team.

[derekshank]

Carson doesn't have to be injured to explain his poor numbers.

I suggest to you that he hasn't felt truly comfortable in the pocket since the '05 season.

I also suggest that the elbow injury in '08 that came after a broken nose because of one of the worst O-Lines this team has ever seen might have gotten in his head a little.

I further suggest to you that with an O-Line that was clearly built to run-block first and pass-block second doesn't have Palmer's full confidence to give him the time needed, resulting in a Peyton Manning style player attempting to play like Brett Favre. Running around, throwing to players on broken plays, and throwing regularly off of his back foot due to pressure, both real and imagined is not Palmer's game.

Whit and Mathis were really the only two good pass blockers on this O-Line. Bobbie played poorly, Roland was terrible, and Cook was less than consistent.

All I'm saying is that defenses were able to get pressue on Palmer a lot this season... and he's a technique QB who looks really bad when he doesn't have the time to use said technique.

Everyone has always known that getting pressure on Manning was the way to beat the Colts, but very few teams are able to do it because they pass-block so well. I'm just saying, give Palmer an O-Line like the Colts have, and the Palmer we used to know might come back. But continue to let teams get pressure on Palmer... and they'll continue to resemble the 2000 Ravens offense.

It's not all bad though. I like the run-first offense. But I think they can get a lot better with some upgrades on the O-Line.

[gregstephens]

Carson doesn't have to be injured to explain his poor numbers.

I suggest to you that he hasn't felt truly comfortable in the pocket since the '05 season.

I also suggest that the elbow injury in '08 that came after a broken nose because of one of the worst O-Lines this team has ever seen might have gotten in his head a little.

I further suggest to you that with an O-Line that was clearly built to run-block first and pass-block second doesn't have Palmer's full confidence to give him the time needed, resulting in a Peyton Manning style player attempting to play like Brett Favre. Running around, throwing to players on broken plays, and throwing regularly off of his back foot due to pressure, both real and imagined is not Palmer's game.

Whit and Mathis were really the only two good pass blockers on this O-Line. Bobbie played poorly, Roland was terrible, and Cook was less than consistent.

All I'm saying is that defenses were able to get pressue on Palmer a lot this season... and he's a technique QB who looks really bad when he doesn't have the time to use said technique.

Everyone has always known that getting pressure on Manning was the way to beat the Colts, but very few teams are able to do it because they pass-block so well. I'm just saying, give Palmer an O-Line like the Colts have, and the Palmer we used to know might come back. But continue to let teams get pressure on Palmer... and they'll continue to resemble the 2000 Ravens offense.

It's not all bad though. I like the run-first offense. But I think they can get a lot better with some upgrades on the O-Line.

I do not disagree with one thing you just said. Carson doesn't have to be hurt to explain his numbers. However, all I've been saying is that it is still a possibility that only he truly knows. All I'm sayin'.

[James_Brooks21]

Carson doesn't have to be injured to explain his poor numbers.

I suggest to you that he hasn't felt truly comfortable in the pocket since the '05 season.

I also suggest that the elbow injury in '08 that came after a broken nose because of one of the worst O-Lines this team has ever seen might have gotten in his head a little.

I further suggest to you that with an O-Line that was clearly built to run-block first and pass-block second doesn't have Palmer's full confidence to give him the time needed, resulting in a Peyton Manning style player attempting to play like Brett Favre. Running around, throwing to players on broken plays, and throwing regularly off of his back foot due to pressure, both real and imagined is not Palmer's game.

Whit and Mathis were really the only two good pass blockers on this O-Line. Bobbie played poorly, Roland was terrible, and Cook was less than consistent.

All I'm saying is that defenses were able to get pressue on Palmer a lot this season... and he's a technique QB who looks really bad when he doesn't have the time to use said technique.

Everyone has always known that getting pressure on Manning was the way to beat the Colts, but very few teams are able to do it because they pass-block so well. I'm just saying, give Palmer an O-Line like the Colts have, and the Palmer we used to know might come back. But continue to let teams get pressure on Palmer... and they'll continue to resemble the 2000 Ravens offense.

It's not all bad though. I like the run-first offense. But I think they can get a lot better with some upgrades on the O-Line.

Every excuse in the book for Carson not playing good except actually looking at Carson, if anybody this year should have been playing sorry because of their offensive line it should have been Aaron Rodgers I know he has a better arsenal to work with then Palmer but the way you are describing it he should have been gun shy on his throws since he took a lot more hits and sacks then Palmer. Next you will bring up that he has never been injured like Palmer and then I will bring up that he broke his foot in a game as recent as 2006. We could have the Hogs or the Cowboys offensive line from their glory days and Palmer would still be throwing high as hell to these wide receivers, that stuff has been going on long before this season. The first one I vividly remember is the one in Denver when T.J. was wide open in the end zone about ten feet from Palmer and he threw it way over his head and it got intercepted. His high throws almost got Chris Henry knocked the hell out in a Pittsburgh game where they ended up catching an interception and has almost got Chad knocked out so many times I can't count. I give him credit though when it's time at the end to make that last drive he's one of the best at it these days. But some of us forget about his play in the rest of the game when he pulls that late drive off. We will only get so far with him playing the way he plays, I'm not on the get rid of Palmer train I'm hoping he can straighten it out, but I'm just tired of all the excuses why his play has been so substandard lately.

[derekshank]

Carson doesn't have to be injured to explain his poor numbers.

I suggest to you that he hasn't felt truly comfortable in the pocket since the '05 season.

I also suggest that the elbow injury in '08 that came after a broken nose because of one of the worst O-Lines this team has ever seen might have gotten in his head a little.

I further suggest to you that with an O-Line that was clearly built to run-block first and pass-block second doesn't have Palmer's full confidence to give him the time needed, resulting in a Peyton Manning style player attempting to play like Brett Favre. Running around, throwing to players on broken plays, and throwing regularly off of his back foot due to pressure, both real and imagined is not Palmer's game.

Whit and Mathis were really the only two good pass blockers on this O-Line. Bobbie played poorly, Roland was terrible, and Cook was less than consistent.

All I'm saying is that defenses were able to get pressue on Palmer a lot this season... and he's a technique QB who looks really bad when he doesn't have the time to use said technique.

Everyone has always known that getting pressure on Manning was the way to beat the Colts, but very few teams are able to do it because they pass-block so well. I'm just saying, give Palmer an O-Line like the Colts have, and the Palmer we used to know might come back. But continue to let teams get pressure on Palmer... and they'll continue to resemble the 2000 Ravens offense.

It's not all bad though. I like the run-first offense. But I think they can get a lot better with some upgrades on the O-Line.

Every excuse in the book for Carson not playing good except actually looking at Carson, if anybody this year should have been playing sorry because of their offensive line it should have been Aaron Rodgers I know he has a better arsenal to work with then Palmer but the way you are describing it he should have been gun shy on his throws since he took a lot more hits and sacks then Palmer. Next you will bring up that he has never been injured like Palmer and then I will bring up that he broke his foot in a game as recent as 2006. We could have the Hogs or the Cowboys offensive line from their glory days and Palmer would still be throwing high as hell to these wide receivers, that stuff has been going on long before this season. The first one I vividly remember is the one in Denver when T.J. was wide open in the end zone about ten feet from Palmer and he threw it way over his head and it got intercepted. His high throws almost got Chris Henry knocked the hell out in a Pittsburgh game where they ended up catching an interception and has almost got Chad knocked out so many times I can't count. I give him credit though when it's time at the end zone to make that last drive he's one of the best at it these days. But some of us forget about his play in the rest of the game when he pulls that late drive off. We will only get so far with him playing the way he plays, I'm not on the get rid of Palmer train I'm hoping he can straighten it out, but I'm just tired of all the excuses why his play has been so substandard lately.

Who is making excuses? Not me.

I said that he doesn't feel comfortable in the pocket... and even went as far as to say that some of it is in his head.

I also said that when he doesn't feel like he has time, he doesn't throw with proper form. That's on him as well. Either he needs to settle down, or he needs to develop his ability to throw in a less than perfect scenario without throwing it at the receiver's feet or 10 feet over their head.

None of that is letting him off the hook. What I did say was that if there is any chance of ever seeing the '05 Palmer again, a good to great pass blocking O-Line is a necessity... and I don't see how that can be disputed by anyone.

[ArmyBengal]

What I did say was that if there is any chance of ever seeing the '05 Palmer again, a good to great pass blocking O-Line is a necessity... and I don't see how that can be disputed by anyone.

I think people are so overjoyed with how the o-line performed this season when they expected things to not be so good, they have missed the fact that the pass protection from the line was not very good. Was it horrible ?? No, but when you consider who you have in the pocket in Carson, something needs to be done to provide more protection. Carson hasn't had a "good to great" pass protecting o-line in quite some time.

All that being said, I still think Carson needs to really look at what he's doing and if it helps, as someone gave a passing shot to, sit down with someone and think about what was going through your head when a particular play was being ran. Seriously, if it's even a thought that it's in his head, that can be worked on as well.

If none of that makes sense, I'll simply say I agree with Derek on this one...

[Ickey44]

I still think they should use rollouts every once in a while to neutralize some of the pressure on him. Palmer throws fairly well on the run and it's something they should consider.