Zampese to the Bears?

[BlainThePain]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/12/zampese-emerges-as-bears-offensive-coordinator-candidate/

Zampese emerges as Bears offensive coordinator candidate

Posted by Mike Florio on January 12, 2010 10:59 PM ET

With Jeremy Bates opting to follow his boss to Seattle and Tom Clements not being allowed to sit for the job, the Bears are down to Plan C.

Dan Pompei of the Chicago Tribune reports that the Bears have sought and received permission to interview Bengals quarterbacks coach Ken Zampese for the position of offensive coordinator.

Zampese, 42, has spent seven seasons with the Bengals. He worked on the same Rams staff with Bears coach Lovie Smith, under head coach Mike Martz.

Martz, meanwhile, has yet to get a sniff for the job. The fact that Martz reportedly recommended Zampese to Smith suggests that Martz has been told that he's not getting the job, regardless of how many times the Bears swing and miss while trying to fill it.

[ArmyBengal]

Hmmmm. My first thought to this is, I wonder how Carson feels about that ??

[gregstephens]

Hmmmm. My first thought to this is, I wonder how Carson feels about that ??

My first thought was, since the Bengals had to give the Bears permission to interview Z-Man, is that they are blaming him for Palmer's issues and he's the fall guy.

[BlainThePain]

Hmmmm. My first thought to this is, I wonder how Carson feels about that ??

My first thought was, since the Bengals had to give the Bears permission to interview Z-Man, is that they are blaming him for Palmer's issues and he's the fall guy.

The Bengals have always let their position coaches interview for better jobs. The Falcons blocked us from interviewing their secondary coach for a D-coordinator position one year, and we let Hue Jackson interview with them the next season.

I had to edit in the amazing coincidence on Profootballtalk I found right after I made the above post.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/13/falcons-opt-not-to-renew-emmitt-thomas-contract/

I wouldn't be surprised if this guy was added to our coaching staff soon in a similar fashion to what Mike Shannahan did in Washington with his old D-coordinator.

Emmitt Thomas, a Hall of Fame defensive back who has coached the Falcons' secondary since 2002, is leaving the team.

Per D. Orlando Ledbetter of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Thomas' contract has not been renewed.

"Everyone here in the Falcons organization has the utmost respect for Emmitt, and we deeply appreciate his contributions to our team over the years," coach Mike Smith said, per Ledbetter. "We wish Emmitt the best in his future endeavors."

Thomas served as interim head coach after Bobby Petrino bolted during the 2007 season.

In 2003, Bengals coach Marvin Lewis wanted to hire Thomas to serve as defensive coordinator, but the Falcons declined to grant permission.

Thomas, 66, interviewed for a handful of head-coaching jobs during his 29-year career as an NFL assistant coach. The future plans of the former Chiefs defensive back currently aren't known, but the fact that he didn't retire from the Falcons suggests to us that he plans to keep working.

[redsbengalsbucks]

If Zampese leaves, I would have no problem with bringing back Ken Anderson as QB coach. It would be nice to see him in stripes again.

[Ickey44]

Well, since Ken just retired, I'm assuming the Steelers still have his rights if he decides to "unretire".

[HairOnFire]

My first thought was, since the Bengals had to give the Bears permission to interview Z-Man, is that they are blaming him for Palmer's issues and he's the fall guy.

The Bengals won't block a position coach from interviewer for a coordinators job. They just won't.

As for the fall guy angle, I'm not looking for one....and I doubt the Bengals are either. But yeah, Zampese is the postion coach for a QB whose mechanics and fundamentals have suffered badly the last couple of seasons. So if Zampese decides to move on, well....I'm just going to shrug.

[skyline]

My first thought was, since the Bengals had to give the Bears permission to interview Z-Man, is that they are blaming him for Palmer's issues and he's the fall guy.

But yeah, Zampese is the postion coach for a QB whose mechanics and fundamentals have suffered badly the last couple of seasons.

Interesting since Brat was quoted in a bengals.com article yesterday talking about how Carson's mechanics have been greatly improved this season.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong. I just wonder how much we fans really know about breaking down the mechanics of Carson's passes.

[redsbengalsbucks]

My first thought was, since the Bengals had to give the Bears permission to interview Z-Man, is that they are blaming him for Palmer's issues and he's the fall guy.

But yeah, Zampese is the postion coach for a QB whose mechanics and fundamentals have suffered badly the last couple of seasons.

Interesting since Brat was quoted in a bengals.com article yesterday talking about how Carson's mechanics have been greatly improved this season.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong. I just wonder how much we fans really know about breaking down the mechanics of Carson's passes.

Maybe he needs to go back to the unconventional mechanics he had before if that is the case. Either way Brat needs to go!!!

[gregstephens]

My first thought was, since the Bengals had to give the Bears permission to interview Z-Man, is that they are blaming him for Palmer's issues and he's the fall guy.

But yeah, Zampese is the postion coach for a QB whose mechanics and fundamentals have suffered badly the last couple of seasons.

Interesting since Brat was quoted in a bengals.com article yesterday talking about how Carson's mechanics have been greatly improved this season.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong. I just wonder how much we fans really know about breaking down the mechanics of Carson's passes.

I certainly profess no first hand knowledge about playing the position of QB. Laws of physics, however, dictate that his obvious failure to follow through is going to result invariably in those high balls his guys have to be high jumpers to catch. Also, the flutters you saw many times this season on his long balls was not there in 2004-20006. So, having said all that, if Brat and Zampese are ok with his motion and his statistical worst 16-game season of his career, I don't profess an ability to question it.

[HairOnFire]

Interesting since Brat was quoted in a bengals.com article yesterday talking about how Carson's mechanics have been greatly improved this season.

Well, that's his opinion. Mine differs quite a bit. In fact, most of the things Zampese touted as being improved aren't related to a QB's mechanics, but rather a style of play. For example, Zampese noted with pride Carson's newly rediscovered running ability and his greater willingness to check down. IMHO those things have everything to do with a QB's mindset, and almost nothing to do with his mechanics or fundamentals. Furthermore, in recent weeks ex-NFL quarterbacks like Boomer, Phil Sims, and Joe Theisman have attempted to break down what was wrong with Palmer and after each of them whined about how few weapons he was to work with, as ALL QB's will do, they quickly moved on to Palmer's mechanics and fundamental skills...including an uncertain release point, a tendency to throw off of his back foot, and a previously unseen tendency to push or guide the ball. Finally, immediately after the 2008 season Palmer admitted his mechanics had suffered and vowed to improve. (He didn't.)

I'm not saying you're right or wrong. I just wonder how much we fans really know about breaking down the mechanics of Carson's passes.

That's fair, but in my case my opinion is mostly based upon Palmer's own criticism of his play LAST season, as well as the further erosion of skills seen this year. Now factor in the shots he's been taking from ex-NFL QB's who know something about playing his position. Finally, consider Zampese's obvious bias and the staggering odds against him blasting his own skills as a position coach when attempting to explain why a 100 million dollar QB routinely struggles.

Again, I'll simply shrug if Zampese moves on, and I'll do so soley because as a position coach his performance has to be judged by the way Palmer plays.

[skyline]

Interesting since Brat was quoted in a bengals.com article yesterday talking about how Carson's mechanics have been greatly improved this season.

Well, that's his opinion. Mine differs quite a bit. In fact, most of the things Zampese touted as being improved aren't related to a QB's mechanics, but rather a style of play. For example, Zampese noted with pride Carson's newly rediscovered running ability and his greater willingness to check down. IMHO those things have everything to do with a QB's mindset, and almost nothing to do with his mechanics or fundamentals. Furthermore, in recent weeks ex-NFL quarterbacks like Boomer, Phil Sims, and Joe Theisman have attempted to break down what was wrong with Palmer and after each of them whined about how few weapons he was to work with, as ALL QB's will do, they quickly moved on to Palmer's mechanics and fundamental skills...including an uncertain release point, a tendency to throw off of his back foot, and a previously unseen tendency to push or guide the ball. Finally, immediately after the 2008 season Palmer admitted his mechanics had suffered and vowed to improve. (He didn't.)

I'm not saying you're right or wrong. I just wonder how much we fans really know about breaking down the mechanics of Carson's passes.

That's fair, but in my case my opinion is mostly based upon Palmer's own criticism of his play LAST season, as well as the further erosion of skills seen this year. Now factor in the shots he's been taking from ex-NFL QB's who know something about playing his position. Finally, consider Zampese's obvious bias and the staggering odds against him blasting his own skills as a position coach when attempting to explain why a 100 million dollar QB routinely struggles.

Again, I'll simply shrug if Zampese moves on, and I'll do so soley because as a position coach his performance has to be judged by the way Palmer plays.

Oh there's no doubt that his mechanics struggled after his injuries.

I just seem to recall hearing Brat say that they had improved this season, and that a lot of his high throws, etc. were due to receivers being bumped off routes, qb pressure, and other factors beyond his control.

I'm not saying that you're guilty of this, but I hate it when people see a struggling passing game and automatically assume that "Carson's lost it!". I think these things are far more complex than people give them credit for being.

All of that said, I agree with your final conclusion, and really don't think Zampese will be critical to Carson's future success. If he's gone, then so be it.

[Kazkal]

Well, that's his opinion. Mine differs quite a bit. In fact, most of the things Zampese touted as being improved aren't related to a QB's mechanics, but rather a style of play. For example, Zampese noted with pride Carson's newly rediscovered running ability and his greater willingness to check down. IMHO those things have everything to do with a QB's mindset, and almost nothing to do with his mechanics or fundamentals. Furthermore, in recent weeks ex-NFL quarterbacks like Boomer, Phil Sims, and Joe Theisman have attempted to break down what was wrong with Palmer and after each of them whined about how few weapons he was to work with, as ALL QB's will do, they quickly moved on to Palmer's mechanics and fundamental skills...including an uncertain release point, a tendency to throw off of his back foot, and a previously unseen tendency to push or guide the ball. Finally, immediately after the 2008 season Palmer admitted his mechanics had suffered and vowed to improve. (He didn't.)

Something I was thinking about seemed like once Carson Started Running with the ball we started seeing more errant passes...I was thinking he's so use to throwing it in the pocket and standing still that he's not use to throwing on the run like a Big Ben,Aaron Rodgers or other mobile QB's.Isn't Payton supposed be one of the most inaccurate QB's on the run simply because it doesn't happen a whole lot?

[HairOnFire]

Something I was thinking about seemed like once Carson Started Running with the ball we started seeing more errant passes...I was thinking he's so use to throwing it in the pocket and standing still that he's not use to throwing on the run like a Big Ben,Aaron Rodgers or other mobile QB's.

Perhaps, but they had to do something. Prior to his knee injury Palmer was very productive rolling out to either side...with his breakout game against the Ravens being an outstanding example. But after Kimo....(sigh)....opposing teams always knew where to find Palmer, and before you could utter the words "happy feet"....the problems started. In fact, I should give some props to Zampese for greatly improving Palmers pocket awareness and footwork this season.

As for throwing on the run, good or bad, I didn't notice anything different.

[HairOnFire]

Former Bear Krenzel endorses Zampese

January, 13, 2010 Jan 134:26PM CT

CHICAGO -- It doesn't take long for Craig Krenzel to return a phone call when somebody wants to discuss his former Cincinnati Bengals quarterbacks coach Ken Zampese.

Krenzel, a former Bears' fifth-round choice out of Ohio State in 2004, spent just one season (2005) with Zampese in Cincinnati, but says he came away with an inordinate amount of football knowledge. That, in itself, counts for something, because as most of us know, Krenzel graduated from Ohio State with a degree in molecular genetics.

Say what you want about Krenzel's professional football career (cut short by a 2006 elbow injury), his intelligence on or off-the-field should not be questioned.

"Even though Ken never played quarterback, from a preparation standpoint, you would have thought he played the position," Krenzel told ESPNChicago.com Wednesday. "His knowledge of the game, the way he prepared us allowed me to learn a ton from him, even though I was only there for a short period of time. And I don't limit that to just his understanding of the quarterback position. He understood the entire offense.

"We would talk all the time in film study about X's and O's, who needs to be blocked, what route was run, etc. He was highly involved with [bengals offensive coordinator] Bob Bratkowski in the passing game. I consider myself a pretty knowledgeable guy, but I learned a ton being around Ken."

Krenzel considers himself lucky to have worked with two outstanding professional quarterbacks coaches: Zampese in Cincinnati and Wade Wilson in Chicago. Wilson was part of Lovie Smith's original staff in 2004, and somebody Krenzel respects to this day, although it's funny to hear how Wilson's coaching style differs from Zampese's.

"I loved Wade, loved the guy," Krenzel said. "Wade had that cool, laid-back Texas style of discussing things, but in the end, you always knew he came to the correct conclusion. He took a little bit of time to get there, but he knew exactly what he was talking about.

"Same thing with Ken, although personality-wise he's a lot different than Wade. Zampese is like the micro-machine guy. He moves a million miles a minute, constantly harping on details, the little things, he gets straight to the point. The guy is football 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and 365 days a year. I always thought he'd be a good coordinator."

But Zampese has never risen above the rank of quarterbacks coach, even though he has interviewed for several coordinator positions in the past. Even a staunch Zampese supporter like Krenzel admits it's always a gamble hiring somebody with no prior play-calling experience.

"Of course, the one unknown is game-day play-calling, because that is truly an art form at the NFL level," Krenzel said. "People just don't understand everything that goes into calling plays during an NFL game. Still, even though I was only with him for a short period of time, I think he's a great coach, and certainly qualified to run an offense."

"I'm very surprised it's taken him this long to get a coordinator job."

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I'm not saying that you're guilty of this, but I hate it when people see a struggling passing game and automatically assume that "Carson's lost it!". I think these things are far more complex than people give them credit for being.

As much as it pains me, I have to back Hair on this one. In this case it's not a reflexive response to blame Carson; indeed, the receivers were the first target for bashing after the Denver game by many people (including, say, me).

The difference between mindless bashing and legitimate criticism comes by watching the actual games. In this case, Carson's release point seems a touch erratic; worse, he's throwing off his back foot A LOT. The first causes generally errant passes, the second causes consistently high throws. Consistent mechanics and follow through are essential to good results in ANY sport, whether it's pitching, shooting free throws, or QBing.

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt for a while, but by the end of the year having seen the same thing time after time, I think it's fair to draw conclusions. He needs to work on consistent mechanics. Don't know why Zampese wasn't able to straighten him out I hope they get somebody who can.

[HairOnFire]

As much as it pains me, I have to back Hair on this one.

Thanks, I think.

The difference between mindless bashing and legitimate criticism comes by watching the actual games.

Well, since we ARE fans let's concentrate on mindless bashing. And I don't mean to be flip when saying that. Because whatever our level of knowledge of QB play may be...(ahem)....something very clearly is wrong and it doesn't take a genius to figure that much out.

As for what's actually wrong? As fans we can only speculate, and sadly.....I think we're about to engage in a very long offseason doing just that. Worse, I wouldn't expect anyone with the Bengals to be very candid about what's wrong since it's blatantly not in their best interests to do so.

Bottom Line(s): I think we'll get some real answers only if Palmer speaks candidly about what went wrong with the passing game this season and then offers his opinions about how it can be corrected. He's routinely done this in the past, and he's always been honest. In fact, he's been a harsher critic of his own performance than most. But should he choose not to speak candidly soon then it's going to be anybodys guess what went wrong, and by anyone I'm including the likes of Lance, the Chickster, and the occasional poo flinging monkey.

[cincyhokie]

My question is if it's physical, when did it happen? The only thing I noticed was that from the MOMENT Henry was injured this offense changed. And even then there were games that Palmer threw the ball well, i.e. San Diego.

Throwing off his back foot? Sounds like he was being pressured consistently the last few games, especially against the Jets who may be the best team in the AFC in collapsing the pocket.

Palmer is fine physically. Let's get him into a scheme that he can excell so he can be good, if not great, mentally.

[kevnz]

That's the thing. When the hell did Palmer have a chance to just sit in the pocket and pass? He didn't. The O-line sucked ass pass blocking. With no deep threat after Slim went down teams played tighter and brought the heat more and the passing game suffered for it. Let's see how well he throws when we can actually pass block for more than 3 seconds and then bitch about his mechanics....

As for Zampese, I hope he get's the job, he's done good and deserves it...

[gregstephens]

My question is if it's physical, when did it happen? The only thing I noticed was that from the MOMENT Henry was injured this offense changed. And even then there were games game that Palmer threw the ball well, i.e. San Diego.

Throwing off his back foot? Sounds like he was being pressured consistently the last few games, especially against the Jets who may be the best team in the AFC in collapsing the pocket.

Palmer is fine physically. Let's get him into a scheme that he can excell so he can be good, if not great, mentally.

Fixed that for ya'. The San Diego game was THE only game where Palmer looked like the old Palmer. Did you rest your post, particularly the very last sentence? When you talk about making him a 'scheme' quarterback, you are automatically conceding he is not a top tier QB like he once was. That's the kind of talk you say about the Vince Youngs and Matt Lienarts of the world, who were great 'scheme' quarterbacks in college and then sucked bus tailpipes in the NFL.

[skyline]

My question is if it's physical, when did it happen? The only thing I noticed was that from the MOMENT Henry was injured this offense changed. And even then there were games game that Palmer threw the ball well, i.e. San Diego.

Throwing off his back foot? Sounds like he was being pressured consistently the last few games, especially against the Jets who may be the best team in the AFC in collapsing the pocket.

Palmer is fine physically. Let's get him into a scheme that he can excell so he can be good, if not great, mentally.

Fixed that for ya'. The San Diego game was THE only game where Palmer looked like the old Palmer.

Not Chicago?

[HoosierCat]

As for Zampese, I hope he get's the job, he's done good and deserves it...

He deserves to be one-and-done on the staff of Dead Coach Walking?

If he takes a job in Chicago he's dumber than dirt.

[cincyhokie]

My question is if it's physical, when did it happen? The only thing I noticed was that from the MOMENT Henry was injured this offense changed. And even then there were games game that Palmer threw the ball well, i.e. San Diego.

Throwing off his back foot? Sounds like he was being pressured consistently the last few games, especially against the Jets who may be the best team in the AFC in collapsing the pocket.

Palmer is fine physically. Let's get him into a scheme that he can excell so he can be good, if not great, mentally.

Fixed that for ya'. The San Diego game was THE only game where Palmer looked like the old Palmer. Did you rest your post, particularly the very last sentence? When you talk about making him a 'scheme' quarterback, you are automatically conceding he is not a top tier QB like he once was. That's the kind of talk you say about the Vince Youngs and Matt Lienarts of the world, who were great 'scheme' quarterbacks in college and then sucked bus tailpipes in the NFL.

No, I'm ok with acknowledging that Palmer is a QB that excels in a pass balanced offense. Palmer drove the ball VERY well this year in the no-huddle. Pittsburgh, @Baltimore? Yes? Notice how well he did with the no-huddle, calling his own plays and a WR (Henry)that could stretch the field? He needs time to throw, he needs to use the play action. This offense this year WAS NOT balanced.

What can QB's like Favre and Warner do when pressured and working with less receiver talent? Not much. Note Warner from 2003-2006. Note Favre 2005.

Palmer is that type of QB. A pass first offense suits him, a balanced offense as well. He performs better in those situations. Call that what what you want, that's what he is and that's what he's been since he got here.

Deep breaths, everyone. He's not hurt. The Jets losses hurt but it's not all Palmer.

[cincyhokie]

My question is if it's physical, when did it happen? The only thing I noticed was that from the MOMENT Henry was injured this offense changed. And even then there were games game that Palmer threw the ball well, i.e. San Diego.

Throwing off his back foot? Sounds like he was being pressured consistently the last few games, especially against the Jets who may be the best team in the AFC in collapsing the pocket.

Palmer is fine physically. Let's get him into a scheme that he can excell so he can be good, if not great, mentally.

Fixed that for ya'. The San Diego game was THE only game where Palmer looked like the old Palmer.

Not Chicago?

And Chicago was the only game that we balanced the playcalling and took advantage of a great running game. It's a once a year game but I think it's something to reference as far as what this team CAN do.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

As for what's actually wrong? As fans we can only speculate,

True, but with something like this it's a little easier to point out. All the other explanations get messy, but this is physics as much as anything. As (I think you) pointed out, when QB analysts are knocking his throwing motion, it's not good. I think most would have to acknowledge that he's not putting balls where he wants to, and we're talking easy passes in many cases (note I'm not talking about missed hot reads that he has with Coles; those are mostly Coles' fault, in my opinion).

and sadly.....I think we're about to engage in a very long offseason doing just that. Worse, I wouldn't expect anyone with the Bengals to be very candid about what's wrong since it's blatantly not in their best interests to do so.

No doubt. In fact I quite hope nobody end up with treadmarks on their back, speaks poorly of the locker room otherwise. But hey, at least it'll give us all something to do at work until the FA signing period anyway. And if we get lucky, they'll get a report out of Shaun Smith.

Bottom Line(s): I think we'll get some real answers only if Palmer speaks candidly about what went wrong with the passing game this season and then offers his opinions about how it can be corrected. He's routinely done this in the past, and he's always been honest. In fact, he's been a harsher critic of his own performance than most.

Agreed. The question is how deep he ends up looking, because it's going to take an ego check to consider the possibility that he hasn't been really right for years. Or that he's a big reason this team is currently sitting home. I hope it lights a fire under his ass, because from the looks of things he needs to really work on things.

As my standard disclaimer, by all means he's not the ONLY problem with the passing game, lest I give the wrong impression.