cincyhokie Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 If we look at the games earlier in the season when he had success, there are some obvious patterns.Games against Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and San Diego, especially when the offense went into a no-huddle, Palmer moved the ball like he did in 2005. Why?He was allowed to make more throws, make more play calls, and make more adjustments at the line of scrimmage. Palmer is a rythym style QB. He needs to throw the ball more, not less. I don't know how that works into this offensive identity of run-first, but the problem isn't Palmer. The offense needs to be built around him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 The offense needs to be built around him.I think it's simpler than that: an offense needs to be built around him. Or, if you're a Palmer-hater, around someone else. The actual signal-caller isn't important. The Bengals have a decent line and a stud RB, but as far as targets in the passing game, there just isn't anything there.Really, who are our Nos. 1-3 wideouts next September? Chad's probably in there, but after that? Remember, it looks like there will be no cap this year, so they can ax anyone without any cap problems. Do they keep Coles? If so, why? Caldwell surely sticks; do they fish or cut bait on Simpson? Does it really matter?Yuck, yuck, yuck.Likewise, the TE spot is a train wreck. There's Foschi and...well...that's about it. Maybe Crash Dummy blossoms next season, maybe he goes the way of Simpson.Lots of work to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincyhokie Posted January 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 The offense needs to be built around him.I think it's simpler than that: an offense needs to be built around him. Or, if you're a Palmer-hater, around someone else. The actual signal-caller isn't important. The Bengals have a decent line and a stud RB, but as far as targets in the passing game, there just isn't anything there.Really, who are our Nos. 1-3 wideouts next September? Chad's probably in there, but after that? Remember, it looks like there will be no cap this year, so they can ax anyone without any cap problems. Do they keep Coles? If so, why? Caldwell surely sticks; do they fish or cut bait on Simpson? Does it really matter?Yuck, yuck, yuck.Likewise, the TE spot is a train wreck. There's Foschi and...well...that's about it. Maybe Crash Dummy blossoms next season, maybe he goes the way of Simpson.Lots of work to do.In the games I mentioned he threw to all of those receivers. Chad, Coles, Caldwell, even Foschi.I don't think there's THAT much work to be done. But it has to start with a new offensive direction and a new OC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Hey it could be worse,we could have Tom Brady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 I don't think there's THAT much work to be done. Nor do I. This team is very close to being great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 In the games I mentioned he threw to all of those receivers. Chad, Coles, Caldwell, even Foschi.Yup -- and I think he threw to all of them yesterday, too. Not good enough. We need some difference-makers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincyhokie Posted January 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 In the games I mentioned he threw to all of those receivers. Chad, Coles, Caldwell, even Foschi.Yup -- and I think he threw to all of them yesterday, too. Not good enough. We need some difference-makers.Again, my point is there was games this year he moved the ball VERY well, almost 2005 like. I think there is more to the equation than JUST the WR's. Palmer is a rythym QB. This style of offense does not suite him. A pass first offense does. Earlier games this year seem to support what I am saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Again, my point is there was games this year he moved the ball VERY well, almost 2005 like. I think there is more to the equation than JUST the WR's. No argument there, but getting in a rhythm requires receivers who can catch the ball and make plays, which our guys all too often did not. You don't build a rhythm with drops, false starts by a certain wideout, TEs with hands of stone (Coats) etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 I'm not concerned about Palmer, he was bad yesterday, for the most part, but he rarely was given time, and depending on a high octaine passing game to get a win in sub-zero weather conditions, is not a good idea. Unfortunately he needs, at least, a new G, C, quality TE, 2 WR's and another viable option to Benson. And we better hope Andre Smith is the real deal. An entirely new offensive coaching staff, including getting rid of Alexander, and a new system, would be nice.Won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincyhokie Posted January 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Again, my point is there was games this year he moved the ball VERY well, almost 2005 like. I think there is more to the equation than JUST the WR's. No argument there, but getting in a rhythm requires receivers who can catch the ball and make plays, which our guys all too often did not. You don't build a rhythm with drops, false starts by a certain wideout, TEs with hands of stone (Coats) etc.Agreed, but think of it conversely, as well. The more rythym the offense has in the passing game, the less drops possibly.I'm thinking more along the lines of "don't throw out the baby with the bath water." blah, blah, blah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingwilly Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Again, my point is there was games this year he moved the ball VERY well, almost 2005 like. I think there is more to the equation than JUST the WR's. No argument there, but getting in a rhythm requires receivers who can catch the ball and make plays, which our guys all too often did not. You don't build a rhythm with drops, false starts by a certain wideout, TEs with hands of stone (Coats) etc.I think it is scheme. It starts with Brat going away.Getting a guy like Scott the ball on pass plays. Why is this SO hard?Why can't a guy like Simpson run two or three routes? If you are such an athlete, you can do a few plays well and make a difference.Foschi was non-existent yesterday... How does that even happen? How do they pass to coates, who promptly dropsthe ball?Give me a guy like Marshall or Boldin. They will have to do something like that. Make a move. Give Palmer weapons. Get the ball to playmakers like Scott.Above all, convince me Palmer is physically fine and go fro there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Above all, convince me Palmer is physically fine and go fro there.IMO physically, Palmer is as fine as he's going to get (with the minor exception of the thumb issue). He looked this year like the same guy I saw 2006-08. I can recall pointing to his habit of throwing off his back foot, not stepping into throws and tossing airballs as a result back in '06. But for all that, he can still get the job done when he has some good weapons to throw to. Unfortunately, like I said before, the talent level at WR and TE has been going downhill since '05. To their credit, the Bengals have tried to do something about it: they drafted Caldwell, Simpson and Coffman; they signed Utecht; they threw money at Housh until it became clear he wouldn't sign, then grabbed the next-best FA in Coles -- but for all that they've gotten little return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Right now, looking at the roster and ages, I really think the best way to fix Carson is to make sure he continues to have protection and the running game doesn't suffer. Iupati is my pick right now followed by a WR that can spread the field if we can't address it in FA and then a safety.I'm not ready to see Palmer not be a part of the Bengals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincyhokie Posted January 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Palmer is 30 years old.Remember back in 2005 when Kurt Warner and Brett Favre were basicallty being looked at as QBs who had "lost it"? Favre had thrown the NFL high 20+ interceptions and was deemed "inacurrate". Warner was "injury prone" and couldn't protect the ball.Where are they now? What changes were made in their situations?Palmer is fine. The system he's playing in, isn't fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whur CHad At? Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Carson isn't fine, and the system doesnt help either. Carson I think already lost it, possbily a season ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincyhokie Posted January 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Carson isn't fine, and the system doesnt help either. Carson I think already lost it, possbily a season ago.I bet that thought was going through your mind when he was leading the no-huddle offense in wins against the Packers, the Steelers, the Ravens, the Chiefs, and the 300 plus yard day at SD.Just a fluke right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC_Bengals_Fan Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 He looked this year like the same guy I saw 2006-08. I can recall pointing to his habit of throwing off his back foot, not stepping into throws and tossing airballs as a result back in '06. That's still driving me crazy that it hasn't been fixed by now. I think it must be that Carson is "the guy" and unquestioned to the point that no one tells him that we're losing games because of his mechanics. Does or QB coach not have the stones to tell him that?I remember in '06 thinking that it was a temporary mental block because of the injury, but it's time to put on the big boy pants and step into his throws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whur CHad At? Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Carson isn't fine, and the system doesnt help either. Carson I think already lost it, possbily a season ago.I bet that thought was going through your mind when he was leading the no-huddle offense in wins against the Packers, the Steelers, the Ravens, the Chiefs, and the 300 plus yard day at SD.Just a fluke right?Only ONE 300 yard game, I might add. And yeah, he was still throwing horrible passes then. Cedric Benson and that defense won those games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincyhokie Posted January 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Carson isn't fine, and the system doesnt help either. Carson I think already lost it, possbily a season ago.I bet that thought was going through your mind when he was leading the no-huddle offense in wins against the Packers, the Steelers, the Ravens, the Chiefs, and the 300 plus yard day at SD.Just a fluke right?Only ONE 300 yard game, I might add. And yeah, he was still throwing horrible passes then. Cedric Benson and that defense won those games.Cedric and the defense weren't leading the offense in the no-huddle. Palmer did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whur CHad At? Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Those no-huddles never would of happen if the defense didnt save their asses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingwilly Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 He looked this year like the same guy I saw 2006-08. I can recall pointing to his habit of throwing off his back foot, not stepping into throws and tossing airballs as a result back in '06. That's still driving me crazy that it hasn't been fixed by now. I think it must be that Carson is "the guy" and unquestioned to the point that no one tells him that we're losing games because of his mechanics. Does or QB coach not have the stones to tell him that?I remember in '06 thinking that it was a temporary mental block because of the injury, but it's time to put on the big boy pants and step into his throws.I agree with both of you.this is the same bullcrap thinking when they were like "Rudi is our RB".I mean, seriously, get him fixed up with a shiny new WR and scheme and we'll see. If his arm is shot, then everyone will have to swallow a very bitter pill and realize that no matter how well Benson runs or how good the defense is, this team wins and loses based on the QB. If Carson CAN'T do it, then they need a new one, or they will waste another 4-6 years wondering what is holding them back, and why end-arounds don't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincyhokie Posted January 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 He looked this year like the same guy I saw 2006-08. I can recall pointing to his habit of throwing off his back foot, not stepping into throws and tossing airballs as a result back in '06. That's still driving me crazy that it hasn't been fixed by now. I think it must be that Carson is "the guy" and unquestioned to the point that no one tells him that we're losing games because of his mechanics. Does or QB coach not have the stones to tell him that?I remember in '06 thinking that it was a temporary mental block because of the injury, but it's time to put on the big boy pants and step into his throws.this is the same bullcrap thinking when they were like "Rudi is our RB".I mean, seriously, get him fixed up with a shiny new WR and scheme and we'll see. If his arm is shot, then everyone will have to swallow a very bitter pill and realize that no matter how well Benson runs or how good the defense is, this team wins and loses based on the QB. If Carson CAN'T do it, then they need a new one, or they will waste another 4-6 years wondering what is holding them back, and why end-arounds don't work.That's exactly what he needs. Hopefully, he gets it. This team COULD run a hell of a balanced offense. Palmer, Benson, Scott, Chad. The O-line is improving. Get a solid TE, you know, one that catches the ball. This offense could be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whur CHad At? Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 He looked this year like the same guy I saw 2006-08. I can recall pointing to his habit of throwing off his back foot, not stepping into throws and tossing airballs as a result back in '06. That's still driving me crazy that it hasn't been fixed by now. I think it must be that Carson is "the guy" and unquestioned to the point that no one tells him that we're losing games because of his mechanics. Does or QB coach not have the stones to tell him that?I remember in '06 thinking that it was a temporary mental block because of the injury, but it's time to put on the big boy pants and step into his throws.this is the same bullcrap thinking when they were like "Rudi is our RB".I mean, seriously, get him fixed up with a shiny new WR and scheme and we'll see. If his arm is shot, then everyone will have to swallow a very bitter pill and realize that no matter how well Benson runs or how good the defense is, this team wins and loses based on the QB. If Carson CAN'T do it, then they need a new one, or they will waste another 4-6 years wondering what is holding them back, and why end-arounds don't work.That's exactly what he needs. Hopefully, he gets it. This team COULD run a hell of a balanced offense. Palmer, Benson, Scott, Chad. The O-line is improving. Get a solid TE, you know, one that catches the ball. This offense could be great.We do have a TE. His name is Chase Coffman but apparntley we just wasted a draft pick on him like usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingwilly Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 He looked this year like the same guy I saw 2006-08. I can recall pointing to his habit of throwing off his back foot, not stepping into throws and tossing airballs as a result back in '06. That's still driving me crazy that it hasn't been fixed by now. I think it must be that Carson is "the guy" and unquestioned to the point that no one tells him that we're losing games because of his mechanics. Does or QB coach not have the stones to tell him that?I remember in '06 thinking that it was a temporary mental block because of the injury, but it's time to put on the big boy pants and step into his throws.this is the same bullcrap thinking when they were like "Rudi is our RB".I mean, seriously, get him fixed up with a shiny new WR and scheme and we'll see. If his arm is shot, then everyone will have to swallow a very bitter pill and realize that no matter how well Benson runs or how good the defense is, this team wins and loses based on the QB. If Carson CAN'T do it, then they need a new one, or they will waste another 4-6 years wondering what is holding them back, and why end-arounds don't work.That's exactly what he needs. Hopefully, he gets it. This team COULD run a hell of a balanced offense. Palmer, Benson, Scott, Chad. The O-line is improving. Get a solid TE, you know, one that catches the ball. This offense could be great.it is even clearer why they tried to get the TE from Dallas.If SoP has any, ANY freaking sense, he will go get Brandon Marshall. Give up the mother lode and they will crush the AFC for 3-5 years, or until benson shows some threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincyhokie Posted January 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 He looked this year like the same guy I saw 2006-08. I can recall pointing to his habit of throwing off his back foot, not stepping into throws and tossing airballs as a result back in '06. That's still driving me crazy that it hasn't been fixed by now. I think it must be that Carson is "the guy" and unquestioned to the point that no one tells him that we're losing games because of his mechanics. Does or QB coach not have the stones to tell him that?I remember in '06 thinking that it was a temporary mental block because of the injury, but it's time to put on the big boy pants and step into his throws.this is the same bullcrap thinking when they were like "Rudi is our RB".I mean, seriously, get him fixed up with a shiny new WR and scheme and we'll see. If his arm is shot, then everyone will have to swallow a very bitter pill and realize that no matter how well Benson runs or how good the defense is, this team wins and loses based on the QB. If Carson CAN'T do it, then they need a new one, or they will waste another 4-6 years wondering what is holding them back, and why end-arounds don't work.That's exactly what he needs. Hopefully, he gets it. This team COULD run a hell of a balanced offense. Palmer, Benson, Scott, Chad. The O-line is improving. Get a solid TE, you know, one that catches the ball. This offense could be great.We do have a TE. His name is Chase Coffman but apparntley we just wasted a draft pick on him like usual.We'll see about Coffman. Apparently, he doesn't fit into Brat's scheme. If Brat goes, he may have a shot. The problem is he's not a good blocker...which made me ask immediately why the hell we drafted a guy that doesn't fit our scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.