Does Marvin waste too many timeouts?

[Stripes]

Common wisdom among Bengals fans is that Marvin Lewis is below average among NFL head coaches as a clock manager. Elias Sports Bureau compiled a list ranking all current head coaches for how consistently they retain two or more timeouts for the final 5:00 of all games ultimately decided by seven points.

Marvin ranks second only to Wade Phillips amongst non-first year coaches. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=garber_greg&page=hotread17/ClockManagementCoaches

Now, I don't necessarily think this list tells the whole story. After all, it ignores the timeouts used in the first half, which may well be the half for which Marvin is most often criticized. Also, timeouts aren't the only important objects for analysis when judging a coach's clock management skills. Spiked balls, play selection, personnel, and unique circumstances separating field goals and touchdowns are all ignored by this very simple list.

It's still interesting though. I like Marvin a lot, but I'd have still guessed he'd be near the bottom of the list rather than near the top.

[Kazkal]

I don't think so the problem is not getting the play off, Doesn't want the offense to further shoot it's self in the foot by more 1st & 15's & 2nd & 15's that we already get from other stupid penaltys.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

This is one where stats don't tell the whole story. Or at least this stat.

For one thing, one if the big complaints is times where Marvin *doesn't* take a timeout - for instance, when he'll have Carson spike the ball unnecessarily, losing a down when they need the down more than the timeout. There have been multiple times this year where that's made things a lot tougher than it needed to be, though I think Carson managed to convert a few 4th downs in those situations to win the game. Still, made by blood pressure higher than necessary.

For another, I've seen Marvin take bad timeouts during endgame scenarios, which would be under than 5:00 limit. For instance, I've seen him use a timeout to ice the kicker (which never works) when they'll really need that timeout if he makes the kick.

If people are blasting him for first half timeouts, that doesn't bother me as much, since teams don't usually use them.

In any event, I think it's a general frustration with his endgame decisions more than a timeout preservation issue per se.

[HairOnFire]

I like Marvin a lot, but I'd have still guessed he'd be near the bottom of the list rather than near the top.

No disrespect intended, but how many non-Bengal related NFL games do you watch? Even if the answer is plenty...most fans are in no position whatsoever to judge the game management skills of head coaches from other teams. They simply don't see those coaches often enough to compare. Complicating things further, most fans are guilty of overreacting to the occasional mistake or failed strategy of the home teams head coach...simply because those errors mean far more to them than those made by coaches of teams they have little interest in.

In short, when the home team blows a timeout it's a freaking tragedy. But when the opposing team makes the same type of error it's just a statistic.

The whole timeout rant has always reminded me of the equally stupid companion rant about how many instant replay challenges Lewis lost, apparently costing the team precious timeouts they could ill afford to lose. In reality, Marvin's success rate for replay challenges has always ranked very high, and the rant complaining about his performance was quieted only after an announcer let it slip during a game how Lewis had the best instant replay challenge record in the entire NFL.

Just saying....

[JoePong]

I haven't seen Marvin Lewis wasting many timeouts. I have seen way too many times when he has been forced to burn timeouts because Carson doesn't realize the play clock is about to run out. marvin has had to come sprinting in to the official to call a TO to avoid a penalty. But that's on the QB. He needs to pick up the pace.

[gregstephens]

I haven't seen Marvin Lewis wasting many timeouts. I have seen way too many times when he has been forced to burn timeouts because Carson doesn't realize the play clock is about to run out. marvin has had to come sprinting in to the official to call a TO to avoid a penalty. But that's on the QB. He needs to pick up the pace.

Pongo, I have to agree with you here. I have never understood why a QB, seeing that giant play clock right in front him about to hit zero, can't say, "Snap me the ball now" at one or two. Ok, a rare happening, sure. Things happen. But virtually every game, or even several times in one game? No excuse.

[JoePong]

As a QB, it's one thing to take too much time and have to call a timeout to avoid a delay of game. But it's even worse to be totally unaware that the play clock is about to run out and your head coach has to come running up to call a timeout for you.

[BengalByTheBay]

As a QB, it's one thing to take too much time and have to call a timeout to avoid a delay of game. But it's even worse to be totally unaware that the play clock is about to run out and your head coach has to come running up to call a timeout for you.

Sure, I don't disagree. Which is why it struck me as interesting (as someone pointed out after the Jets game) that JT O'Haircut had much the same problem in his mop-up role. It would seem that whatever the problem is with delay in getting plays called, it's not solely on the QB.

[Ickey44]

It would seem that whatever the problem is with delay in getting plays called, it's not solely on the QB.

Precisely, but that logic is not going to help Joe throw Carson under the bus so he'll ignore it.

[gregstephens]

As a QB, it's one thing to take too much time and have to call a timeout to avoid a delay of game. But it's even worse to be totally unaware that the play clock is about to run out and your head coach has to come running up to call a timeout for you.

Sure, I don't disagree. Which is why it struck me as interesting (as someone pointed out after the Jets game) that JT O'Haircut had much the same problem in his mop-up role. It would seem that whatever the problem is with delay in getting plays called, it's not solely on the QB.

Well, even if it isn't a play calling issue, I can understand it with JT, since he hasn't taken a snap since the Chicago game. Palmer should have a rythym and flow with his offense that would avoid these delay penalties.

That said, since I'm on the 'fire Brat' side of the fence, I have no problem adopting your theory in full.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

No disrespect intended, but how many non-Bengal related NFL games do you watch? Even if the answer is plenty...most fans are in no position whatsoever to judge the game management skills of head coaches from other teams. They simply don't see those coaches often enough to compare.

I disagree to an extent. NFL is definitely a "by the book" sort of league, so while you won't ever profile every single coach, a fan of the NFL as a whole who watches lots of non-Bengal games will get a general feel for what decisions stick out as especially dumb compared to the general populace. As an out-of-town fan, who has had Sunday Ticket in the past and Redzone channel now, I see a *lot* of non-Bengal games.

Complicating things further, most fans are guilty of overreacting to the occasional mistake or failed strategy of the home teams head coach...simply because those errors mean far more to them than those made by coaches of teams they have little interest in.

Quite true. One does have to try to account for that. However, you do notice other coaches that are especially bad. Like, if you would have asked me who's the worst at game management for long-tenured coaches, I'd have said Andy Reid, hands down. Surprise, he's toward the bottom of the list, especially for long-time coaches. So these things do stick out to fans who watch the league as a whole as opposed to just their team.

The whole timeout rant has always reminded me of the equally stupid companion rant about how many instant replay challenges Lewis lost, apparently costing the team precious timeouts they could ill afford to lose. In reality, Marvin's success rate for replay challenges has always ranked very high, and the rant complaining about his performance was quieted only after an announcer let it slip during a game how Lewis had the best instant replay challenge record in the entire NFL.

Just saying....

I've never noticed Lewis use too many challenges compared to his peers. As an aside, I'm of the opinion that, league wide, coaches call waaaay too many challenges. I'd also like to see it broken down by half - it's a lot less damaging in the first half than the 2nd.

[Ickey44]

As a QB, it's one thing to take too much time and have to call a timeout to avoid a delay of game. But it's even worse to be totally unaware that the play clock is about to run out and your head coach has to come running up to call a timeout for you.

Sure, I don't disagree. Which is why it struck me as interesting (as someone pointed out after the Jets game) that JT O'Haircut had much the same problem in his mop-up role. It would seem that whatever the problem is with delay in getting plays called, it's not solely on the QB.

Well, even if it isn't a play calling issue, I can understand it with JT, since he hasn't taken a snap since the Chicago game. Palmer should have a rythym and flow with his offense that would avoid these delay penalties.

That said, since I'm on the 'fire Brat' side of the fence, I have no problem adopting your theory in full.

I don't think you can have rhythm if the plays aren't coming in on time.