Whats the most important move different from years past?

[icehole3]

Thats allowed the Bengals to make the playoffs?

I think getting rid of both loser centers was the no.1 move

[BlainThePain]

The Steelers having a down year.

[Stripes]

Defense.

In years past the defense has been s**t and the offense has been average to great. This year, the offense is still around average I'd say despite all the problems we continually discuss -- but a top five defense has made all the difference. I don't think the coaching has been any better. I don't think the players were any more motivated (prior to Mrs. Zimmer's and Slim's tragedies). I don't even think Mike Brown acted out of character.

Perhaps a certain few other variables worked in our favor that have not in recent seasons. Draft picks are panning out early. Perceived character risks are carrying the team. We did see the single position unit decimated by injuries that we've seen often lately (offensive line 2006, linebackers 2007), but the tight end situation was more easily overcome.

[jjakq27]

The Steelers having a down year.

Do we need their permission or something?

[BlainThePain]

The Steelers having a down year.

Do we need their permission or something?

If the Steelers were playing like they were last season, we wouldn't be in the playoffs right now.

This team is very similar to teams we have fielded this decade. We've had more than our fair share of injuries, we've gave away wins with stupid mistakes at the end of games, and we are only good on one side of the ball. The difference is for once the Steelers were bad enough for us to sweep them and that's the difference between us winning the division to us barely missing out.

[derekshank]

The Steelers having a down year.

Do we need their permission or something?

If the Steelers were playing like they were last season, we wouldn't be in the playoffs right now.

That's true... but how often do the Steelers play that well? Before last season they hadn't won the division since '04, so it's not exactly their birthright.

[Wraith]

Actually the Steelers won the division in 2008 and 2007 (though they won on tiebrakers in '07). Since 2005 the Bengals have won two division championships the Steelers 2 and the Ravens 1 with the Browns winning zip. There hasn't been a dominent team in this division this decade, people assume that the Steelers are dominent because they are dominent against the rest of the NFL but they have been as flawed as any against the teams of the AFC North in the last 5 years.

It does speak to the overall strength of this division that the Ravens and the Steelers have been so strong against the rest of the AFC and the NFC and yet every week is a slugfest against division opponents.

[gregstephens]

Agreeing to do 'Hard Knocks'. Hands. Down.

[kingwilly]

Mike Zimmer.

[jjakq27]

The Steelers having a down year.

Do we need their permission or something?

If the Steelers were playing like they were last season, we wouldn't be in the playoffs right now.

That's true... but how often do the Steelers play that well? Before last season they hadn't won the division since '04, so it's not exactly their birthright.

Agreed. We have the same opportunities that they do. We have 10 wins as of right now and only two of them were against Pittsburgh. We've beaten 7 other teams along the way. I think Pittsburgh is getting way too much credit here.

[cincyhokie]

Marvin Lewis forming his type of team, becoming a better coach, and hiring the right coaches like Mike Zimmer.

Marvin Lewis deserves a ton of credit.

[101Airborne]

Steelers having a down year? Sure chief, the difference between 2006-2007 and 2009 is what the Steelers are and are not doing and has nothing at all to do with the fact that we actually have a defense and a running game. The Steelers went 8-8 and 10-6 in those years and we didn't make the playoffs. What's more, when we made the playoffs in 2005, the Steelers were 11-5 that year. So what the hell exactly does the Steelers have to do with us going to the playoffs? Next thing I'll be hearing is that the only reason the Steelers aren't undefeated this year is because they don't have their one-man defense on the field.

The number one thing that has made this team viable is defense. We'd have easily made the playoffs in 2006 and 2007 with this defense.

[truthteller]

Do not forget the running game. It is nearly impossible to have a good defense without a running game.

[firemarvinNOW]

Marvin Lewis forming his type of team, becoming a better coach, and hiring the right coaches like Mike Zimmer.

Marvin Lewis deserves a ton of credit.

BULL!!!! Our coaches with the exception of Zimmer are why we are not 12-4 or 13-3. Hey 2nd and 9 Lets run.Have we ever been in the last 3mns of a half and had 3 timeouts left?

[cincyhokie]

Marvin Lewis forming his type of team, becoming a better coach, and hiring the right coaches like Mike Zimmer.

Marvin Lewis deserves a ton of credit.

BULL!!!! Our coaches with the exception of Zimmer are why we are not 12-4 or 13-3. Hey 2nd and 9 Lets run.Have we ever been in the last 3mns of a half and had 3 timeouts left?

Not talking about Brat.

Who hired Zimmer?

Teams don't lead themselves, especially not this one. If you don't think Marvin hasn't made a difference this year try and convince those voting for the NFL Coach of the Year. He's in position to win it.

[gregstephens]

Marvin Lewis forming his type of team, becoming a better coach, and hiring the right coaches like Mike Zimmer.

Marvin Lewis deserves a ton of credit.

BULL!!!! Our coaches with the exception of Zimmer are why we are not 12-4 or 13-3. Hey 2nd and 9 Lets run.Have we ever been in the last 3mns of a half and had 3 timeouts left?

Not talking about Brat.

Who hired Zimmer?

Teams don't lead themselves, especially not this one. If you don't think Marvin hasn't made a difference this year try and convince those voting for the NFL Coach of the Year. He's in position to win it.

For all the issues, any coach that can take a team from 4-11-1 to 10-6 or 11-5 and the playoffs should be in the running, any arguments to the contrary being moot by the results.

[cincyhokie]

As far as moves go, I think it's a toss up between Kyle Cook and the restructured O-line and the additions on defense to include Crocker, Tank, and Rey.

[firemarvinNOW]

#1 Mike Brown hired Mike Zimmer. #2 he took the team to 4-11-1, make the playoffs in back to back years and I will believe hes a good coach. I dont believe this team plays down to competition I believe they are coached down to the competition. Play a bad team play it safe take no chances, thats why bad teams hang around.Hes been here 7 years and had 2 winning seasons. I dont think that is a good thing.

[cincyhokie]

#1 Mike Brown hired Mike Zimmer. #2 he took the team to 4-11-1, make the playoffs in back to back years and I will believe hes a good coach. I dont believe this team plays down to competition I believe they are coached down to the competition. Play a bad team play it safe take no chances, thats why bad teams hang around.Hes been here 7 years and had 2 winning seasons. I dont think that is a good thing.

You blame Marvin for 4-11-1 but don't praise him for 11-5/10-6? That makes no sense.

Coaching is so much more than the plays called. Leadership on a team starts somewhere and it comes from the head coach/leader. If you've ever played organized sports and/or been in the military you'll understand this concept.

The simple fact, like you mentioned, that this team was 4-11-1, coming off Carson's injury, the death of Zimmer's wife and Henry...and STILL win the division. That doesn't happen by accident, that is leadership.

[Ickey44]

#1 Mike Brown hired Mike Zimmer. #2 he took the team to 4-11-1, make the playoffs in back to back years and I will believe hes a good coach. I dont believe this team plays down to competition I believe they are coached down to the competition. Play a bad team play it safe take no chances, thats why bad teams hang around.Hes been here 7 years and had 2 winning seasons. I dont think that is a good thing.

Mike Zimmer came here because Marvin called him. Mike Brown hired Mike Zimmer because Marvin asked him to. Don't say that Mike Brown did it all by himself.

You also point out that Marvin has only had two winning seasons. He also had only 2 losing seasons. Sure it's not the best team in the league, but it's better than anyone since Sam Wyche has been able to do.

[jjakq27]

#1 Mike Brown hired Mike Zimmer. #2 he took the team to 4-11-1, make the playoffs in back to back years and I will believe hes a good coach. I dont believe this team plays down to competition I believe they are coached down to the competition. Play a bad team play it safe take no chances, thats why bad teams hang around.Hes been here 7 years and had 2 winning seasons. I dont think that is a good thing.

We are winning games the way we used to lose them. I'll take the two division championships even if they have fallen short in five other seasons.

You may not like him or Mike Brown but they can't be wrong all the time.

[firemarvinNOW]

#1 Mike Brown hired Mike Zimmer. #2 he took the team to 4-11-1, make the playoffs in back to back years and I will believe hes a good coach. I dont believe this team plays down to competition I believe they are coached down to the competition. Play a bad team play it safe take no chances, thats why bad teams hang around.Hes been here 7 years and had 2 winning seasons. I dont think that is a good thing.

We are winning games the way we used to lose them. I'll take the two division championships even if they have fallen short in five other seasons.

You may not like him or Mike Brown but they can't be wrong all the time.

I dont like Brown or Lewis. Remember Brat was hired by Lewis. Maybe 8-8 is acceptable to you but to me its like a tie, a tie is a loss. Either you win or lose.Also if you are saying Marvin turned it around by hiring Zimmer you could also blame him for the 4 years of terrible defense? This team has way to many penalties and bad clock management to be considered well coached.

[Ickey44]

#1 Mike Brown hired Mike Zimmer. #2 he took the team to 4-11-1, make the playoffs in back to back years and I will believe hes a good coach. I dont believe this team plays down to competition I believe they are coached down to the competition. Play a bad team play it safe take no chances, thats why bad teams hang around.Hes been here 7 years and had 2 winning seasons. I dont think that is a good thing.

We are winning games the way we used to lose them. I'll take the two division championships even if they have fallen short in five other seasons.

You may not like him or Mike Brown but they can't be wrong all the time.

I dont like Brown or Lewis. Remember Brat was hired by Lewis. Maybe 8-8 is acceptable to you but to me its like a tie, a tie is a loss. Either you win or lose.Also if you are saying Marvin turned it around by hiring Zimmer you could also blame him for the 4 years of terrible defense? This team has way to many penalties and bad clock management to be considered well coached.

You really need to check your facts before you start spouting off. Bratkowski has been here since 2001. TWO YEARS before Marvin got here.

Of course Marvin's going to look bad if you make up things to blame him for.

[firemarvinNOW]

Marvin got here in 03. He kept Brat as the O.C. how are my facts not right he choose to keep brat.

[gregstephens]

#1 Mike Brown hired Mike Zimmer. #2 he took the team to 4-11-1, make the playoffs in back to back years and I will believe hes a good coach. I dont believe this team plays down to competition I believe they are coached down to the competition. Play a bad team play it safe take no chances, thats why bad teams hang around.Hes been here 7 years and had 2 winning seasons. I dont think that is a good thing.

We are winning games the way we used to lose them. I'll take the two division championships even if they have fallen short in five other seasons.

You may not like him or Mike Brown but they can't be wrong all the time.

I dont like Brown or Lewis. Remember Brat was hired by Lewis. Maybe 8-8 is acceptable to you but to me its like a tie, a tie is a loss. Either you win or lose.Also if you are saying Marvin turned it around by hiring Zimmer you could also blame him for the 4 years of terrible defense? This team has way to many penalties and bad clock management to be considered well coached.

You really need to check your facts before you start spouting off. Bratkowski has been here since 2001. TWO YEARS before Marvin got here.

Of course Marvin's going to look bad if you make up things to blame him for.

Funny thing about Brat. Look at his past. Prior to coming to Cincy, he's been with about seven or eight other college/NFL teams. The only time he's survived more than five seasons elsewhere was the early '80s at Weber State. His prior 3 NFL gigs? 3, 4, and 2.

How he has managed nine seasons here is anybody's guess, but it should end now.