Points Against after week 11

[Ickey44]

In addition, I'd say the loss of Evan Mathis has had a far greater impact on this team than the loss of Chris "Decoy Boy" Henry.

On that, we agree. Mathis is supposed to be back this week so we'll see.

It's about eliminating the mistakes that have been killing drives while exploiting the things you do well offensively. And that's running the football, right?

Absolutely. They shouldn't give up on the run, but I believe they're going to have to pass effectively as well to beat those teams and that's where my concern lies. It's entirely possible that they hold the Chargers and Vikings under 16 points, but not likely. I'm hoping that they're really paying attention to red zone offense and working on NOT getting penalties this week because those are two things that have killed them the last two weeks.

Yeah, but the Raiders and Browns did play two-deep on every play. In fact, despite the Bengals remarkable success running the ball that's the way most teams have gameplanned against the Bengals. So, do you throw under those conditions? No, you do exactly what the Bengals have done. And you keep doing it until the other guy forces you to change.

True, but on the occasions that the running game hasn't gotten them the first down the last couple of games, the passing game hasn't been able to get it on third down.

But again, they've missed Benson, a guy who was a legit MVP candidate before being dinged. Furthermore, Mathis being out has resulted in a noticable slip in play from Whitworth, more snaps for the less capable Livings at Mathis spot, and way too much of a crumbling Dennis Roland at RT.

Yes, I've noticed Roland getting beat quite a bit the last couple of weeks. I haven't seen much of Collins. Has he not been playing?

[BengalByTheBay]

and way too much of a crumbling Dennis Roland at RT.

It's coincidental you should end with this because I've been noodling about just how long it will be until Andre is starting. Surely, he'll be in before the end of the season and - unless I miss my guess - he will likely be starting in the next 2 games. Do they wait until after this week is the question in my mind?

[BengalByTheBay]

There is no set formula to win a superbowl. But one thing cannot be argued. If the bengals score 16 points in a game, they are much more likely to lose than if they score 28 points.

It's nuggets like this that keep me coming back for more. I suppose the other way of saying this is that if the Bengals score 28 points a game then they are more likely to win than if they score 16. Sublime. I need to meditate on this concept for awhile.

[Pidge]

It's only been the last three games that the passing game has been put on the backburner in a major way. I have to think it's by choice. The only problem with the passing game, other than a few wayward passes by Carson, is the almost constant stream of turnovers from fumbles etc. I love a 30 yd pass play as much as the next man but the fumble and TO at the end of the play becomes grating after the 3rd time or so.

Get the wins under your belt, make sure of certain things and then play a little looser when you're in a position to do so. There have been times when they've gashed teams, torn them asunder almost, through the air on the occasional drive here and there (complete with obligatory fumble) so we know they can do it.

[Ickey44]

It's only been the last three games that the passing game has been put on the backburner in a major way. I have to think it's by choice. The only problem with the passing game, other than a few wayward passes by Carson, is the almost constant stream of turnovers from fumbles etc. I love a 30 yd pass play as much as the next man but the fumble and TO at the end of the play becomes grating after the 3rd time or so.

Get the wins under your belt, make sure of certain things and then play a little looser when you're in a position to do so. There have been times when they've gashed teams, torn them asunder almost, through the air on the occasional drive here and there (complete with obligatory fumble) so we know they can do it.

I'm not saying we should become pass-happy or start launching the ball downfield. I'm just concerned that when we do pass lately, it's not been successful and, occasionally, it's been downright ugly.

I don't think we're gonna make it far if we become one-dimensional. The run is great. Keep pounding it, but when you do pass, complete the pass. Otherwise, teams will start loading the box and we'll have no answer.

That having been said, Carson never stays down for long. I think they'll be back in sync this week. Marvin said Mathis will be back this week. Ced will be back. We're playing the Lions. Should be a good game for us.

[Pidge]

I get what you're saying - a balance on offense is never a bad thing. I'm not so sure it's an absolute necessity though. I know this is premature (and I'm not saying this D is the equivalent of the 2000 Ravens unit after 11 games) but hear me out - the Ravens went 5 straight games without scoring an offensive TD. Of any kind. We're still in very good shape.

[Pidge]

I don't think we're gonna make it far if we become one-dimensional. The run is great. Keep pounding it, but when you do pass, complete the pass. Otherwise, teams will start loading the box and we'll have no answer.

Also, so far few have stuffed the box, which is why we're running it and not throwing it in the main. The minute they do start putting 8 or even 9, if they feel lucky, Carson will tear them a new O-ring. They're keeping deep cover, IMO, precisely because they know we have a more than capable passing game. So they opt for a death of a thousand cuts instead and occasionally we hand them, literally, the win by hanging around within a score or so.

The mistakes are the killers, not the scheme.

[HoosierCat]

So if they're not using his arm to win MOST games....shouldn't that tell us something? Like maybe, they think there's a better way to win consistently?

You can win consistently passing just as well as you can win consistently running, but either recipe alone tends to fall short. The Bengals don't need to start throwing it 50 times a game. But they've shown less balance on O than I like to date. Again, we'll see.

[volcom69]

Will Mathis be starting again this week? Or did Livings go in and win that job again, if you ask me Mathis is the much better choice.

Roland has been struggling the last couple of weeks, and it sucks because im such a big Roland fan, but those really fast pass rushers seem to get by him. Which is why i dont understand why they didnt let a TE in there to help block.

This O-Line is one of the best run blocking o-lines i have seen for this team, but i still think they can improve on there pass protection. Im still alittle nervous to use Smith as a full time roll yet, but the coaches no more then me.

I still would love to see them throw the ball better, and would love to see the redzone offense get back to where it was a few games back. Hey whatever wins games i dont care just so they win.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

It's the o-line, said it all preseason, and I hope that group and it's position coach don't prevent them from breaking their NFL leading playoff game winless streak.

Andre Smith "should" help, but I have no idea why the 6th over-all pick can't break the starting lineup at this point, unless he's still hurt. If he's 100% healthy, Alexander needs a broomstick up his a$$ for stupidity.

[Kazkal]

Once again...our offense STILL hasn't scored more than 17 points in any game against an AFC opponent this season

But they have scored more then 17 so whats the problem? Hey aslong as we can score more points then the NFC team in the superbowl I'm good and vs NFC so far we've done great

[ShulaSteakhouse]

This O-Line is one of the best run blocking o-lines i have seen for this team, but i still think they can improve on there pass protection. Im still alittle nervous to use Smith as a full time roll yet, but the coaches no more then me.

What they are doing well is playing to Alexander's style - push the guy the way he's going, not necessarily the way it's planned for him to go, stay in front of him, use unusually large (or tall) lineman to do it, and let the ultra talented RB's improvise and cut back (see Dillon days). Doesn't work so well in pass protection with this group, and gets your RB's beat up.

It's really a below average line taking advantage of a lot of good skill players, it's Brown's model, although he's very capable of building a better line than this one. He simply devalues and basically ignores the C, G and TE position too often (or more accurately doesn't want to pay anyone at that position premium dollars). Not really against that line of thinking, but you still need quality players not unsigned FA's starting for you at those positions, unless it's injury related.

I said just that in the preseason and even with Kelly, the TE position is mediocre at best here, if not poor compared to many other top offenses.

This team should be 10-1, but at least they're 8-3 and playing above their expected level - gotta give them credit for gutting it out upfront.

[kingwilly]

This O-Line is one of the best run blocking o-lines i have seen for this team, but i still think they can improve on there pass protection. Im still alittle nervous to use Smith as a full time roll yet, but the coaches no more then me.

What they are doing well is playing to Alexander's style - push the guy the way he's going, not necessarily the way it's planned for him to go, stay in front of him, use unusually large (or tall) lineman to do it, and let the ultra talented RB's improvise and cut back (see Dillon days). Doesn't work so well in pass protection with this group, and gets your RB's beat up.

It's really a below average line taking advantage of a lot of good skill players, it's Brown's model, although he's very capable of building a better line than this one. He simply devalues and basically ignores the C, G and TE position too often (or more accurately doesn't want to pay anyone at that position premium dollars). Not really against that line of thinking, but you still need quality players not unsigned FA's starting for you at those positions, unless it's injury related.

I said just that in the preseason and even with Kelly, the TE position is mediocre at best here, if not poor compared to many other top offenses.

This team should be 10-1, but at least they're 8-3 and playing above their expected level - gotta give them credit for gutting it out upfront.

I think you have really blown your take on how good this line is, calling them "below average".

By almost any measure they are far above average. If they approach "average" in any area, it is pass protection, and if the source or draft is any relative indication of how well they are playing, these guys are far exceeding what could reasonably be expected.

I would argue that Mathis and Roland are two of the most important reasons Cedric Benson has run so well. Cook would be the next most important reason. By comparison, Whit and Williams have been the weak links.

This line is so good, I dare argue that almost any average RB could get 100 yards in a game running behind them.

Look at the line in Chicago. Forte cannot run for crap up there. Bring Forte here and he would decimate, as Cedric, Larry and Bernard has done. If they activated James Johnson off the PS, I would bet $500 he could get 100 yards against an average NFL defense. That is a function of the line, not the quality of the RB.

I do agree that SoP financially ignores the G and C position. When they brought Bobbie Williams here, I was shocked. Cook deserves a new contract to lock him down for 5 years. Mathis as well. It will be interesting to see what they do with the line. They have very good depth and need to manage it well. Can't afford to let a guy like Mathis or Roland disappear in a year or two. You don't find guys 6'9" and 350 who can move and work and kill themselves to prove they belong in the NFL. Ever seen a guy that big go in motion? Neither has any defense in the NFL.

Williams is the only guy who is getting to the age where his play could degrade but I have not seen any drop-off yet.

This line has a chance to be amazing. With Collins, Whit, Andre and Roland at T, Mathis, Williams, Livings at G and Luigs and Cook at C. Groom up Shirley to step in for Williams in 2011 and, damn, that is a serious group of rare men.

[HairOnFire]

This team should be 10-1, but at least they're 8-3 and playing above their expected level...

That's almost Pongian.

[101Airborne]

This O-Line is one of the best run blocking o-lines i have seen for this team, but i still think they can improve on there pass protection. Im still alittle nervous to use Smith as a full time roll yet, but the coaches no more then me.

What they are doing well is playing to Alexander's style - push the guy the way he's going, not necessarily the way it's planned for him to go, stay in front of him, use unusually large (or tall) lineman to do it, and let the ultra talented RB's improvise and cut back (see Dillon days). Doesn't work so well in pass protection with this group, and gets your RB's beat up.

It's really a below average line taking advantage of a lot of good skill players, it's Brown's model, although he's very capable of building a better line than this one. He simply devalues and basically ignores the C, G and TE position too often (or more accurately doesn't want to pay anyone at that position premium dollars). Not really against that line of thinking, but you still need quality players not unsigned FA's starting for you at those positions, unless it's injury related.

I said just that in the preseason and even with Kelly, the TE position is mediocre at best here, if not poor compared to many other top offenses.

I don't see how you can say that about the line. Take a look at LJ's ypc behind KC's line and then behind ours. You think LJ went from a talentless hack to a 100 yard per game rusher over night and it has nothing to do with the play of the o' line? LJ is a talented rusher to be certain, but claiming that his runs came in spite of the line instead of because of it is plainly silly.

As to the TE position I would agree that we have been mostly mediochre or worse, except that in the last bunch of games I've seen Foschi block well and make the catches he needed to make. I've seen some good signs out of him on 3rd downs and then just last week in the endzone. He's no superstar TE, but he is getting the job done right now.

[BengalByTheBay]

This team should be 10-1, but at least they're 8-3 and playing above their expected level...

That's almost Pongian.

Yup, that's the line that jumped out at me too. So many psychological markers there it's difficult to unwrap them all. Suffice it to say that Steakhouse's self loathing is still not something he can admit to himself.

To recap, the team that couldn't shoot straight is 8-3, they should be 10-1, but they're better than expected.

[HairOnFire]

And speaking of our Pongian favorites, I really liked the following nugget from yesterday.

We only led against Houston briefly during the halftime intermission.

It almost sounds like the intermission was a back-and-forth struggle, doesn't it?

[101Airborne]

And speaking of our Pongian favorites, I really liked the following nugget from yesterday.

We only led against Houston briefly during the halftime intermission.

It almost sounds like the intermission was a back-and-forth struggle, doesn't it?

Didn't you know? Our lead was only for the first half of the intermission. Houston scored a touchdown at half time.

[Kazkal]

I would argue that Mathis and Roland are two of the most important reasons Cedric Benson has run so well. Cook would be the next most important reason. By comparison, Whit and Williams have been the weak links.

I'd disagree on Roland...Well he is much better then Collins whitworth by far has a larger impact...There is reason we run stronger to the left side...

Not only that but he ends up TE in the jumbo package quite abit...Remember a few plays where they would move Whit to right and not even put a LT in....leaving the left side to a TE & Guard...

[firemarvinNOW]

They've been pretty poor in the red zone since the 1st quarter of the baltimore game.

Well in all honesty the Browns, Ravens, and Steelers games are hard to judge. Those teams have great defenses and they know us a lot better than the Raiders do. Either way, they need to fix it. All those plays and long drives mean nothing if you get down there and can't score touchdowns.

The Browns have a great defense? REALLY!!!!

[Ickey44]

They've been pretty poor in the red zone since the 1st quarter of the baltimore game.

Well in all honesty the Browns, Ravens, and Steelers games are hard to judge. Those teams have great defenses and they know us a lot better than the Raiders do. Either way, they need to fix it. All those plays and long drives mean nothing if you get down there and can't score touchdowns.

The Browns have a great defense? REALLY!!!!

They've played pretty good defense against us. They're defense really isn't that bad but their offense is so they spend way too much time on the field.