Andre Smith Signs !!!

[Larry]

It makes the site unusable for the purposes that I come here. If others enjoy it... fine. The desires of the many outweigh the needs of the few. But I miss the good ol' days when more reasonable posters like DPM and Shula were the "bad guys."

I think the annoyances caused by trolls of yesteryear fade with time. I can remember weeks when it was impossible to find anything amidst the DPM/Hair flamefests. Seriously annoying. As monotonous as Bearcat/Groundhog/whatever gets with the negativity, his comments at least focus on football, which is more than we can say about some the other trolls who have been here.

I generally just don't respond to people (not being specific here as to names) who can't express coherent thoughts or say something funny or interesting. People like that just aren't worth my time, and I don't much care what they say. That's why I don't entirely get why Groundhog bugs you so - if you think he's such a dink, don't let him get to you. As ya'll have said...even a troll can't have a conversation by himself. And I think others will probably not continue to engage with him when they've had the same conversation too many times.

As to the tone of the comments recently, bear in mind that the single biggest issue of late has been the contract negotiations with Andre, in which the Brown family played the central antagonist. With the deal signed and the season on the way, I think you'll see things change soon.

To bring this halfway on topic (and I think this is a response to Captain Herpes, Ron Mexico) - the question of whether Andre Smith makes or breaks the season is entirely up to Anthony Collins. I hope they can bring Smith along gradually, but if the right side caves in, they may not have the luxury.

I agree, it still like before is on Anthony Collins more than Andre. Who ever the fault, when he was not in training camp, the bed was made. We will go as far as Collins will take us (keeping Palmer upright that is). Nothing would make everyone happer than Collins keeping Andre in the reserves most of the year.

[Kazkal]

I'd like to see Collins do more then protect Carson I'd like to see more runs on the right side end up for more then negative yardage....

Half of Andre's money I guess is linked to Weight so He'll have to stay under 350 lbs....

Andre Smith contract hinges half his salary to weight

Posted by Mike Florio on September 1, 2009 12:54 PM ET

The contract signed Sunday by Bengals tackle Andre Smith already was regarded in league circles as a bad one for the player, and a good one for the team.

A league source has shared with us a detail that makes it an even better deal for the Bengals.

Per the source, the contract contains a provision that slashes in half Smith's pay for each game in which he weighs in at 350 pounds or higher.

It's technically a de-escalator of his base salary, a device that is permissible as long as Smith's salary exceeds the league minimum for his specific level of experience. But it's a dramatic and (as far as we can tell) unprecedented move to compel a player to maintain a certain weight.

So, basically, Andre has millions of reasons to push away from the table on a consistent basis.

Then again, those reasons existed in the weeks and months before the draft; the connection, however, wasn't as clear.

Glad to see this because he most of been serious about keeping his weight under control or I doubt he ever agree to it.

[Pidge]

Deary me, these figures (in all senses of the word) are eye-popping. A financial incentive to stay under 350? The damage these fellas must be doing to their bodies, internal organs and joints especially. I'm 6'4" and hardly what one would call slight. I come in just under 215. Do they have special furniture made?

[gregstephens]

I'd like to see Collins do more then protect Carson I'd like to see more runs on the right side end up for more then negative yardage....

Half of Andre's money I guess is linked to Weight so He'll have to stay under 350 lbs....

Andre Smith contract hinges half his salary to weight

Posted by Mike Florio on September 1, 2009 12:54 PM ET

The contract signed Sunday by Bengals tackle Andre Smith already was regarded in league circles as a bad one for the player, and a good one for the team.

A league source has shared with us a detail that makes it an even better deal for the Bengals.

Per the source, the contract contains a provision that slashes in half Smith's pay for each game in which he weighs in at 350 pounds or higher.

It's technically a de-escalator of his base salary, a device that is permissible as long as Smith's salary exceeds the league minimum for his specific level of experience. But it's a dramatic and (as far as we can tell) unprecedented move to compel a player to maintain a certain weight.

So, basically, Andre has millions of reasons to push away from the table on a consistent basis.

Then again, those reasons existed in the weeks and months before the draft; the connection, however, wasn't as clear.

Glad to see this because he most of been serious about keeping his weight under control or I doubt he ever agree to it.

I saw the PFT article as well. Apparently, someone named 'Kaz' posted a response. Any relation?

[Sea Ray]

Wow. How did Mike Brown slip that one in? That's huge. Usually it's a bogus workout bonus or something but a 50% cut in pay? Apparently those reports of guaranteed money were bogus too. It's only guaranteed if you keep your weight under 350. Next question, is he even under 350 right now?

If he's paid $8mill a year then that's about $500,000 per game. About a quarter of a million will hinge on every weighin.

Tell me one more time, why did this guy holdout anyway???

[Kazkal]

I saw the PFT article as well. Apparently, someone named 'Kaz' posted a response. Any relation?

Nope I was kinda creeped out when I saw him post ,like who would wanna be related to me lol.

reports of guaranteed money were bogus too. It's only guaranteed if you keep your weight under 350. Next question, is he even under 350 right now?

From what I was told he weighed about 340 aweek before he signed.

[membengal]

Ahem. From a poster who was seriously on fire in the locked Andre Smith thread, there was this ahead of the signing:

Frankly, I think Mike and pumpkin smell blood in the water. First time first round deal for Keels, a player in Smith who really can't afford to sit out a year, and a so-far healthy line with two decent tackles in camp, giving them all the leverage right now.

And so they did.

The Bengals "won" this negotiation as thoroughly as I can remember them ever winning a negotiation. If the Bengals actual season goes even half as well as that negotiation did from the front office's standpoint, they will be in the playoffs...

[HairOnFire]

I've been away for a few days and was ALMOST completely cut off from news sources, so forgive me for asking..........anything new happening?

[BlainThePain]

Does anybody know the deadline for the team to pick up the two year option?

Can they wait until the first four years have lapsed, or do they only have a couple of years into the contract to decide to pick up the option?

[Sea Ray]

I can't confirm this but I read on another board that the Bengals have to decide on the 2 yr option after next year (year 2)

[Kazkal]

would seem silly to have to decide by the 2nd year,I would think the 4th year :|

[HairOnFire]

Wow. I should go on the road more often. Clearly when I'm out of touch, good things happen for the Bengals.

Yeah, I was in Palm Springs enjoying a 3-day floating marathon in a resort swimming pool. Never gave Smith, Keels, or Pumpkie a single thought the whole time.

Good deal all around. Too bad it took so long.

At first glance I'd have to say the Bengals burned Keels to the ground. In fact, the reporter on ESPN who broke the story mentioned the Bengals had improved their initial offer once, and only once, and had then actually reduced their offer several times in the following weeks.

[HairOnFire]

I think the annoyances caused by trolls of yesteryear fade with time. I can remember weeks when it was impossible to find anything amidst the DPM/Hair flamefests. Seriously annoying.

Hey!

Personally, I seek out the DPM's and BearMomma's of the world precisely because they represent the always whining segment of our fanbase whose only intent seems to be twisting everything into a negative. I actually want a piece of them. Plus, I don't believe in ignoring anyone....mostly because that feels like granting a free pass. As for banishment, that's a question for those of you working at a higher pay grade.

That said, I'd hate to see any poster of value leave simply because I enjoyed swapping with the dinks a little too much, and yeah....Shank is a poster I value.

So I offer a potential solution. Instead of engaging in future swap session with your mindless Bearcat, a GroundHog, or your garden variety Shula....I will instead simply write the words "Joe Pong" and be done with it.

[HoosierCat]

Good deal all around. Too bad it took so long.

At first glance I'd have to say the Bengals burned Keels to the ground.

Both sides got what they wanted: Keels got a big-bucks deal that tops out at a potential $50 million. The Bengals got their way on incentives to make sure he has to perform to earn it.

[Sea Ray]

At first glance I'd have to say the Bengals burned Keels to the ground. In fact, the reporter on ESPN who broke the story mentioned the Bengals had improved their initial offer once, and only once, and had then actually reduced their offer several times in the following weeks.

I hope that report is right. I said all along reducing the offer was the way to get Keels to the table. The fact is that in this sort of system all the cards are in the team's favor if they're willing to stomach a holdout. We all know that holdouts don't bother Mike Brown in the least. You'd think this knowledge would get around but agents keep repeating this mistake time and time again.

Even Leigh Steinberg made this mistake with Akili. He irreparably hurt Smith's career by holding him out. This kept his client from getting the necessary time in practice which led to reduced playing time and as a result he did not meet most of his incentives. He should have realized that out of all of his clients, Akili Smith needed to be in camp on time more than anyone. He may have busted anyway but this decision put him behind the 8 ball from the get go.

[Ickey44]

Even Leigh Steinberg made this mistake with Akili. He irreparably hurt Smith's career by holding him out.

Akili Smith hurt Akili Smith's career, not his agent. Smith admittedly was more interested in partying and what not than learning the playbook and practicing.

[Kazkal]

Even Leigh Steinberg made this mistake with Akili. He irreparably hurt Smith's career by holding him out.

You serious? Next are you gonna blame David Pollacks Agent? anychance are you JSR or Graphic guy on bengal.com

[Sea Ray]

Even Leigh Steinberg made this mistake with Akili. He irreparably hurt Smith's career by holding him out.

You serious? Next are you gonna blame David Pollacks Agent? anychance are you JSR or Graphic guy on bengal.com

No match. Mt screenname is very consistent

I suppose your analogy to Pollack is you thought an injury caused Smith's downfall as well? I don't see it.

A lot of things had to go right for Akili Smith to make it and with the way Steinberg handled his negotiations he was behind and never caught up

[Ickey44]

Even Leigh Steinberg made this mistake with Akili. He irreparably hurt Smith's career by holding him out.

You serious? Next are you gonna blame David Pollacks Agent? anychance are you JSR or Graphic guy on bengal.com

No match. Mt screenname is very consistent

I suppose your analogy to Pollack is you thought an injury caused Smith's downfall as well? I don't see it.

A lot of things had to go right for Akili Smith to make it and with the way Steinberg handled his negotiations he was behind and never caught up

Smith never caught up because he never tried. You apparently have never read the article from the .com a year or so ago when he admitted that he screwed up his career by partying instead of studying and not taking his job seriously. Look it up, it's probably still there.

[HairOnFire]

At first glance I'd have to say the Bengals burned Keels to the ground. In fact, the reporter on ESPN who broke the story mentioned the Bengals had improved their initial offer once, and only once, and had then actually reduced their offer several times in the following weeks.

I hope that report is right. I said all along reducing the offer was the way to get Keels to the table. The fact is that in this sort of system all the cards are in the team's favor if they're willing to stomach a holdout. We all know that holdouts don't bother Mike Brown in the least. You'd think this knowledge would get around but agents keep repeating this mistake time and time again.

I have mixed feelings, mostly because my gut has told me for years and years the Bengals negotiate first and foremost, NOT with the idea the draft pick WILL be a star player if properly developed, but instead...with the worst possible scenario in mind. Which may indeed be realistic, but it all touches on the oft-repeated criticism asking why a team would actually draft a player who has been identified, prior to the draft, as a boom-or-bust type.

Even Leigh Steinberg made this mistake with Akili. He irreparably hurt Smith's career by holding him out. This kept his client from getting the necessary time in practice which led to reduced playing time and as a result he did not meet most of his incentives.

I agree. Years later Steinberg admitted he had settled for almost the exact same money the Bengals had offered early in the negotiations and had held his client out in the hopes of getting softer easier to reach incentive triggers. Instead, as the holdout lengthened the Bengals became even more adamant about retaining the the more demanding triggers. As a result Akili never saw half of the money included in his contract.