Mired In Mediocrity

[Dimster28]

Why on Earth would anyone "choose" to follow one of the most poorly run franchises in all of professional sports?

Are funerals entertaining?

I always figured the only 2 types of fans that are left are the casual fan, and the fan who grew up with the Bengals so there is no way to identify with any other NFL team.

Why anyone who has the mindset to choose any NFL team as their own would pick the Bengals is beyond me.

my reason is simple enough, i grow up love real tiger alot, they are so beautiful to me, even when i was little kid, tigger in pooh is my favorite, thats why i am fan of bengals, if it was cincinnati panthers or something like that, i promise u i wouldnt be in this forum, and u all wont know me lol

[ArmyBengal]

There is no "requirement" to being a fan simply because you are from there. The thought is, if you are in fact born and raised in Cincinnati or whatever city has a team, AND brought up to follow that team for as long as you can remember, it is a part of who you are. I can remember following the Bengals for as long as I can remember being. There is also the whole family thing attached to it. I went to games with my grandfathers, uncles, my brother, and went to the Freezer Bowl and Super Bowl XVI with my Dad. They are/were also HUGE fans of the Bengals and I just couldn't envision not rooting for the team we have all shared great times with. Sure I could simply choose someone else, but there's more to it that is deeper and more complex than a simple choice.

Just my viewpoint...

[HairOnFire]

I don't expect you to understand it, but it's true nonetheless.

Well, that's unfair. Isn't it possible I understand the point you're making, but I reject your conclusions?

None of the entertainment options you mention resemble sports fan psychology from the cultural identity or "tribal" standpoint that Pidge mentioned.

So food and music aren't cultural touchstones that define who we are? Please. We constantly make life choices based upon "who we are", with a fair number of those choices being determined soley by our need and desires to fit in with those who surround us. But in this example you're not only given the choice of which tribe to join, but in fact....you get to choose whether you want to join any tribe at all.

In fact, considering the fact that you do claim it's a choice for you...how the hell come you haven't moved on to some other team sometime in the last couple decades?

In all seriousness, because I don't hate the Bengals in the same way as so many of this teams so-called enlightened fans do. Plus, I've developed numerous coping techniques that allow me to not only remain a Bengal fan, but against all odds....still enjoy the experience tremendously. And one of those coping mechanisms involves sharing my feelings with fellow fans who understand exactly how I'm feeling at any given moment.

But there's the rub, right? Because I find myself increasingly weary of dealing with so-called Bengal fans who, on a near daily basis, can only show their support for the team by deliberately distorting every piece of Bengal related information they can get their hands on.

Bottom Line: I guess we could debate what it means to be a good or bad fan all day long, but in doing so I think we miss the biggest point of all. That being, they really aren't fans at all.

[HairOnFire]

Why on Earth would anyone "choose" to follow one of the most poorly run franchises in all of professional sports?

Are you really so stupid as to claim you don't have a choice?

[Bearcat1975]

Why on Earth would anyone "choose" to follow one of the most poorly run franchises in all of professional sports?

Are you really so stupid as to claim you don't have a choice?

Are you really so stupid as to have a choice, and choose one of the worst franchises in pro sports history?

Do you drive a Gremlin and only buy broken eggs at the grocery store as well?

[HairOnFire]

Are you really so stupid as to have a choice, and choose one of the worst franchises in pro sports history?

If I were to believe what I've been told by others I don't have a choice in the matter. But then again, being a Bengal fan isn't miserable for me so I'm not looking for a way out.

You on the other hand complain about everything, but remain far too stupid to realize you can change your miserable circumstances in an instant, simply by stating you've had enough. Yet you don't.

And apparently the sole reason you can't bring yourself to act boldly is because the Bengals cleverly included the word "Cincinnati" in their company name.....and in all of the years that have followed that decision your miserable dumb ass apparently hasn't been able to think of a counter move.

[Bearcat1975]

But then again, being a Bengal fan isn't miserable for me so I'm not looking for a way out.

You are mired In mediocrity

"The losing doesn't really bother me. And that makes me a better fan." -HOF

You sound like a cheerleader.

But the losing does bother you though. You just choose to direct your venom toward those who write and talk about the perrenial ineptitude of the Bengals, rather than directing it at the source, the Benglas themselves.

"That darn P-Doc and his negativity." -HOF

What a douche.

[Ickey44]

But then again, being a Bengal fan isn't miserable for me so I'm not looking for a way out.

You are mired In mediocrity

And you're drowning in it. The amount of negativity you have for a team that you're a "fan" of amazes me.

[Bearcat1975]

But then again, being a Bengal fan isn't miserable for me so I'm not looking for a way out.

You are mired In mediocrity

And you're drowning in it. The amount of negativity you have for a team that you're a "fan" of amazes me.

Ask me about something that typically generates positive results. You'll find my tone decidedly different.

I don't make Mike Brown's decisions that cause the Bengals to miss the playoffs every year, I just comment on them.

2006: "How'd the Bengals do?"

They missed the playoffs.

2007: "How'd the Bengals do?"

They missed the playoffs.

2008: "How'd the Bengals do?"

They missed the playoffs.

2009: "How do you think the Bengals will do?"

They will miss the playoffs.

"Man, you're so negative."

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Well, that's unfair. Isn't it possible I understand the point you're making, but I reject your conclusions?

In this case, the evidence is very much testimonial based. People have a certain viewpoint, as established from testimony; you're in the position of convincing them that said viewpoint is invalid. I'm telling you why I'm a Bengals fan, and it seems as if there are a number of people who share the same reason. In effect, you have to demonstrate your superior understanding of psychology to the point that you understand those of us who responded as such *better than we understand ourselves*. I'll admit you have an uphill fight there, but it's quite fair.

So food and music aren't cultural touchstones that define who we are? Please. We constantly make life choices based upon "who we are", with a fair number of those choices being determined soley by our need and desires to fit in with those who surround us. But in this example you're not only given the choice of which tribe to join, but in fact....you get to choose whether you want to join any tribe at all.

Depends how you frame it. Your initial point on the matter suggested that you were comparing a superficial choice of cuisine with identification with a sports team. That I reject. If you want to make the comparison to food that *is a part of your identity*, then let's say I was raised on spicy food (true) and I live in an area where it's hard to come by (ditto). Would I patronize an establishment that caters to my favorite cuisine if I had no better option (in the same way that there's only one Cincinnati Bengals)? Sure would.

Better example, now that you've framed it as you have. Would people go to see crappy concerts because it reminds them of their childhood? Yep. I have it on good authority that Motley Crue recently did a concert at Cincinnati. So did the "New Kids", possibly one of the worst musical movements of all time, but apparently something that women of my generation associate with. So if that's how you're framing it, then yes, people choose bad entertainment, even atrocious entertainment, if that entertainment is tightly bound to who they are. And the younger the age of the association, the tighter it will be bound. So, for people who have been watching the Bengals since childhood, there you go.

In all seriousness, because I don't hate the Bengals in the same way as so many of this teams so-called enlightened fans do. Plus, I've developed numerous coping techniques that allow me to not only remain a Bengal fan, but against all odds....still enjoy the experience tremendously. And one of those coping mechanisms involves sharing my feelings with fellow fans who understand exactly how I'm feeling at any given moment.

OK, stretch out on the couch there and let's explore that. First, your method of enjoying the Bengals (message boards) is non-unique - every team has them. So you could bail on us, and quickly re-establish that camraderie with a few more W's each year to show for it. You have to have more than that. This is something I'm interested in. You've switched teams (twice?) by your own admission. Why not grab another? Steelers? Patsies? Hell, you could easily drive to Chargers games, right? And hell, USC is pretty much a pro team.

I think there has to be more. Do you secretly like the losing? I think this could be due to some deep-seated issues. It's OK, talk it out.

But there's the rub, right? Because I find myself increasingly weary of dealing with so-called Bengal fans who, on a near daily basis, can only show their support for the team by deliberately distorting every piece of Bengal related information they can get their hands on.

Two responses: first, you don't have to distort the info to make a compelling case that the team is run for crap. Hell, we're finally getting the behind-the-scenes view we've always wanted, and it's even more of a train wreck than any of us could have imagined. Second, isn't having negative feelings of a team that's sucked for nearly two decades kind of...rational?

What I don't get is why *anyone* who isn't psycholocgically attached to the Bengals (ie, you, as you claim) somehow actually *would* remain a fan. I am not compelled by the responses above.

Bottom Line: I guess we could debate what it means to be a good or bad fan all day long, but in doing so I think we miss the biggest point of all. That being, they really aren't fans at all.

That hinges on what the term 'fan' means. Does it mean being a Pollyanna? Or does it mean doing what you *think* is best for the team, even if others could debate the efficacy? I think it's quite resonable to both cheer for them on Sundays while also protesting their pathetic leadership. I fail to see any contradiction there at all.

[HairOnFire]

"The losing doesn't really bother me. And that makes me a better fan." -HOF

Not that you'll care, but making up stuff and then pretending somebody else said it is just another example of blatant dishonesty. It's also pretty lazy....because there isn't a shortage of things I've actually said that you could use if your intent was to engage in honest conversation.

But there's nothing honest about you, is there?

Frankly, you can keep changing user names until the seas dry up, but no matter what you call yourself...I'll always call you a liar.

[Ickey44]

But then again, being a Bengal fan isn't miserable for me so I'm not looking for a way out.

You are mired In mediocrity

And you're drowning in it. The amount of negativity you have for a team that you're a "fan" of amazes me.

Ask me about something that typically generates positive results. You'll find my tone decidedly different.

I don't make Mike Brown's decisions that cause the Bengals to miss the playoffs every year, I just comment on them.

2006: "How'd the Bengals do?"

They missed the playoffs.

2007: "How'd the Bengals do?"

They missed the playoffs.

2008: "How'd the Bengals do?"

They missed the playoffs.

2009: "How do you think the Bengals will do?"

They will miss the playoffs.

"Man, you're so negative."

Saying they'll miss the playoffs is extremely different to what you've been saying about them. Quit ignoring facts. You've said this would be one of the worst teams in the league this year and that Palmer won't make it through one regular season quarter unhurt. You've openly longed for a protection breakdown just so Palmer would get hurt to make one of your predictions come true. That's negative. There's a distinct difference between being negative and being realistic.

[HairOnFire]

In effect, you have to demonstrate your superior understanding of psychology to the point that you understand those of us who responded as such *better than we understand ourselves*. I'll admit you have an uphill fight there, but it's quite fair.

Well, let's see how I do.

First, you disagreed with me. Then you agreed with Pidge. But after Pidge and I swapped a post or two we found out Pidge agreed with everything I said. Best, during this debate I've managed to offer my opinions in some detail....while your "we have no choice" rant is still firmly rooted in the vague and fuzzy. So all things considered I see no requirement for me to fight uphill. Rather, I'm already here at the summit....waiting for you to admit the obvious. That being, we all have a choice. And furthermore, if we're truly miserable....then it's an act of idiocy to continue denying ourselves that right.

So if that's how you're framing it, then yes, people choose bad entertainment, even atrocious entertainment, if that entertainment is tightly bound to who they are. And the younger the age of the association, the tighter it will be bound. So, for people who have been watching the Bengals since childhood, there you go.

No, there YOU go. Because all you're doing is agreeing with me about why so many people become fans of something in the first place. But that's not the end of the lesson. Because as you get older each of us will occasionally cast off something we used to be interested in. Sometimes we do so because we've simply outgrown something, but also because our tastes change. But most of us don't continue doing things we hate if they can be avoided, and there's the rub...because nobody forces anyone to be a Bengal fan.

This is something I'm interested in. You've switched teams (twice?) by your own admission. Why not grab another?

The simple answer is I'm not nearly miserable enough....probably because my sense of self-worth isn't defined by how the Bengals perform. But aren't we missing the point here? Because I'm not really intererted in why normal fans continue to give support to a lousy team. Rather, I wonder aloud why people continue to show interest in a team when doing so not only makes them miserable, but so poisons their character that they willingly become dishonest and half-witted. (Groundhog waves to the crowd.)

I think there has to be more. Do you secretly like the losing? I think this could be due to some deep-seated issues. It's OK, talk it out.

Well, I haven't given it much thought, but if forced I'd say I don't like losing anymore than anyone else. However, considering the company I keep around here it's obvious I have a high tolerance for losers, if not a genuine fondness.

I think it's quite resonable to both cheer for them on Sundays while also protesting their pathetic leadership. I fail to see any contradiction there at all.

Let me get this straight. You see no contradiction when someone who claims to be a Bengal fan declares how nothing will change his negative opinion of the team....including it winning a championship.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Rather, I'm already here at the summit....waiting for you to admit the obvious. That being, we all have a choice.

See, now you've shifted the issue to be existential by definition and on that basis you lose on summary judgement. I never said, literally, that no one has a choice. Of course I have a choice. I'm explaining to you why, psychologically, folks don't exercise it. But I see what you did there, and give you points for trying.

But aren't we missing the point here? Because I'm not really intererted in why normal fans continue to give support to a lousy team. Rather, I wonder aloud why people continue to show interest in a team when doing so not only makes them miserable, but so poisons their character that they willingly become dishonest and half-witted. (Groundhog waves to the crowd.)

But that one's so much more explainable, even if you don't *like* the explanation. Lots of people do something that makes them miserable in one way because it makes them happy in another way. You see the misery part - it's quite likely you simply don't see the benefits side. I bet the most grouchy fan here (Shula) actually enjoys watching the actual games. Don't be surprised if fans use the internet more for complaining than anything; it's sort of like a support group that way. Another issue - perhaps the pain of losing is less than the pain of cutting out something that you have identified with so strongly for so long. For me, being a fan of my local teams is one of the few things that reminds me of home when I'm living in DC. I could start following the Skins...but I'd rather not.

What I have still yet to understand is why people *without* any psychological baggage don't cut and run. Or, put another way, if you actually claim to enjoy watching your team lose, and you're not getting something else out of it that's less tangiable, that's more f'ed up than the situation we were discussing previously.

Well, I haven't given it much thought, but if forced I'd say I don't like losing anymore than anyone else. However, considering the company I keep around here it's obvious I have a high tolerance for losers, if not a genuine fondness.

See, whenever we get to the core issue you come up with a throwaway. Classic avoidance behavior. C'mon, you can do better than that. It's a simple question - why the hell are you still a fan? I think we're close to a real breakthrough here.

Let me get this straight. You see no contradiction when someone who claims to be a Bengal fan declares how nothing will change his negative opinion of the team....including it winning a championship.

I'll have to confess to not seeing that gem, but I'll defer judgment until seeing it in context. But the plane flying and urinal cakes I have no problem with.

[COB]

You are mired In mediocrity

Nice psychological analysis. Have you ever listened to yourself?

1. You openly profess your hatred for Mike Brown. You harp constantly on how bad the Bengals and their fan base sucks. But when asked, you claim you are a fan of the Bengals!

2. There is a website that totally and completely agrees with your viewpoint. Your postings, though out of place here, would fit in perfectly there. (WDR). But when asked about that website, you claim you hate it and don't want to hang there.

3. You post love notes about how great the Steelers are. Anytime anyone posts something negative in here about the Steelers, you quickly jump to their defense. Doesn't matter if it is their players or their front office, you're there to tell us how great they are. Yet when asked about why you're not a fan of the Steelers, you say because you can't stand them.

Your issues, as I see them are as follows: As a child, a parent or authority figure emotionally abused you. Every thought you had, they put you down, and denigrated any achievement. Now subconsciously you believe that anything you love (the Bengals and WDR), must be total s**t not worth anything. But anything you don't like, (the Steelers), must be worthwhile and worthy of respect.

Well, I am here to tell you that you are worthwhile, and I can tell you are smart. You don't have to hide from your feelings or beliefs behind a facade anymore. When you hide your feelings or beliefs, you are essentially hiding yourself.

And in instances like these, you are hiding yourself due to intense feelings of shame. Shame brought on by that authority figure constantly yelling, "what is wrong with you?" or "Can't you do anything right?" After a while, like any child would, you start to believe there is something wrong with you, and you can't do anything right.

So you grow up and start to feel, well, if I like it, it must be f**ked up. If I care about it, since I can't do anything right, it must not be worthy of my devotion. Or to put it in context here, "Only a complete f**k up would be a fan of the suck-ass bengals. So I am a fan of the Bengals because I am a complete f**k up."

You deserved better, and your loved ones now deserve better. You can love the Bengals, it is ok. Or the Steelers, though that wouldn't be healthy for you. That would be completely giving in to your shame, so don't do it.

I'm not mad at you about your posts anymore, because now I realize that what I perceived as Bengal-hating posts actually had nothing to to with the Bengals and everything to do with you. They were actually self-hating posts. Don't put yourself down! You are a bright, interesting person worthy of all the good things that can come your way in life.

[derekshank]

This discussion is silly.

I like football. While it wasn't an act of volition that caused me to be entertained by it, it is silly to assume that I'm a slave to it.

If football at any point caused me more pain than enjoyment, I'd simply abandon it and find something else.

Enter the Bengals. So many fans seem to be a slave to Mike Brown. It's no wonder they hate him so much, because he would indeed be a harsh master. I simply don't view it that way. I watch a product of entertainment on Sundays. Sometimes they perform well, sometimes they don't. If because of poor performance I can no longer find enjoyment in the product, I'll find something else.

This is in no way being a "fair weather fan" because I have no intention of jumping on and off of a bandwagon based on their performance. I'm entertained by the product, and the future hope of an even better product. But I'm not a slave to it. If at some point I were to really buy into Momma Bear's rant about this team being awful and having no hope of ever being successful, then it would cease to be a source of entertainment. I'd just watch The Office and reruns of Arrested Development more often.

[HairOnFire]

I never said, literally, that no one has a choice. Of course I have a choice.

I'll score that one as a solid point for me.

I'm explaining to you why, psychologically, folks don't exercise it.

Actually, you aren't. Rather, you're hiding behind a series of excuses all based upon the premise that because change is difficult most people won't do it. But stay or go, if you're a disgruntled fan willing to s**t on everything Bengal related then you HAVE changed, haven't you? In fact, you've changed so much you're no longer a fan at all.....though many of you still call yourself that. But that's just a convenience. The truth is most of you couldn't stand to call yourself what you really are.

But I see what you did there, and give you points for trying.

Good call, as it saves me the trouble of awarding myself even more internet debating points.

Lots of people do something that makes them miserable in one way because it makes them happy in another way. You see the misery part - it's quite likely you simply don't see the benefits side. I bet the most grouchy fan here (Shula) actually enjoys watching the actual games.

It's possible, but you're now asking me to believe that, away from this messageboard, Shula isn't really the dink he delibertaly appears to be. Which when you think about it sort of tapdances around my oft repeated accusation that so-called fans like Shula and BearMomma are guilty of intellectually disingenuous and blatantly dishonest behavior.

What I have still yet to understand is why people *without* any psychological baggage don't cut and run.

You almost make it sound like battered women syndrome....where a woman repeatedly returns to her attacker because she doesn't feel she deserves any better.

C'mon, you can do better than that. It's a simple question - why the hell are you still a fan?

Because I'm not as miserable as others. Or if you prefer, I like being a fan more than I like the thought of being a constantly whining anti-fan.

I think we're close to a real breakthrough here.

There won't be any breakthrough until smart guys like you can figure out why normal loyal fans aren't the problem.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I'll score that one as a solid point for me.

Yeah, congratulations, you affirmed a truism you master debater, you.

Actually, you aren't. Rather, you're hiding behind a series of excuses all based upon the premise that because change is difficult most people won't do it. But stay or go, if you're a disgruntled fan willing to s**t on everything Bengal related then you HAVE changed, haven't you?

You're lumping a whole lot of things together. Just because you openly mock Mike Brown doesn't mean you crap on everything Bengal related. Big difference. That's not me, anyway, and I don't think it applies to everyone who has the temerity to question that retarded front office.

Because I'm not as miserable as others. Or if you prefer, I like being a fan more than I like the thought of being a constantly whining anti-fan.

But surely you could have more fun as a fan of a team that wins more often, right? So why not, if you've already hopped twice?

There won't be any breakthrough until smart guys like you can figure out why normal loyal fans aren't the problem.

The problem is Paul Brown's wife. I'm guessing she's the one who dropped Little Mikey on his head about 71 years ago. But if you're trying to insinuate that disgruntled fans are actually the *reason* the Bengals lose...that's preposterous even for you.

[HairOnFire]

This discussion is silly.

Of course it is.

If football at any point caused me more pain than enjoyment, I'd simply abandon it and find something else.

And that fact alone instantly proves you to be a smarter person than the so-called "enlightened" soldiers of the revolution. Because if you can't leave something you despise then you actually are a slave to it, right?

I'm entertained by the product, and the future hope of an even better product.

And there it is. You have hope, so you stay. No further explanation required.

Then again, there are those who walk amongst us who claim to have no hope left....yet they don't leave. In fact, some of them, apparently due to their own stupidity, claim they can't leave.

Go figure, ehh?

I like football. While it wasn't an act of volition that caused me to be entertained by it, it is silly to assume that I'm a slave to it.

Enter the Bengals. So many fans seem to be a slave to Mike Brown. It's no wonder they hate him so much, because he would indeed be a harsh master. I simply don't view it that way. I watch a product of entertainment on Sundays. Sometimes they perform well, sometimes they don't. If because of poor performance I can no longer find enjoyment in the product, I'll find something else.

This is in no way being a "fair weather fan" because I have no intention of jumping on and off of a bandwagon based on their performance. I'm entertained by the product, and the future hope of an even better product. But I'm not a slave to it. If at some point I were to really buy into Momma Bear's rant about this team being awful and having no hope of ever being successful, then it would cease to be a source of entertainment. I'd just watch The Office and reruns of Arrested Development more often.

[HairOnFire]

You're lumping a whole lot of things together.

It happens.

Just because you openly mock Mike Brown doesn't mean you crap on everything Bengal related. Big difference.

Agreed, and that's why I treat you differently than I treat Kid Shula or MamaBear. Because as much as we might disagree I've never felt like you were being dishonest. In fact, as critical as you've been I've always felt your opinions were as honest and unbiased as my own. And that's an important distinction, isn't it?

But surely you could have more fun as a fan of a team that wins more often, right? So why not, if you've already hopped twice?

I never really looked at it that way. Yeah, I dumped my childhood Brownies in favor of the Los Angeles Rams, but I never dumped the Rams, who still remain my favorite NFC team. Far better to say my beloved Bengals simply surpassed the Rams, no doubt in part because they sprung up in my own backyard, but mostly because they were founded by the same Paul Brown I had grown to respect.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I never really looked at it that way. Yeah, I dumped my childhood Brownies in favor of the Los Angeles Rams, but I never dumped the Rams, who still remain my favorite NFC team. Far better to say my beloved Bengals simply surpassed the Rams, no doubt in part because they sprung up in my own backyard, but mostly because they were founded by the same Paul Brown I had grown to respect.

See, there you go. You're attached too.

[ArmyBengal]

I don't really see it as a silly discussion, I just think it's easy to not see the big picture of this conversation that has drawn me to this thread. I agree that it is indeed a choice that any fan CAN in fact make at any time of their choosing and also agree that if this was no longer a draw to me, I'd simply not watch.

I think it's a bit off to say I'm a slave to Mike Brown, rather the Bengals hold a certain spot in my heart, so to speak, due to family ties and experiences that are rooted in my hometown. It's about remembering those times shared regardless of the outcome of the game and because of those experiences, it would make it very difficult to root for another team. I didn't say it was impossible to do so, just that I would probably not follow the game anymore if I felt it came to that point.

I think there's a connection with the hometeam that just goes a little deeper than simply saying that I'm just a fan.

For me, it's family. A sick and twisted family at times, but a family nonetheless...

I also view the Reds in the same manner.

[HairOnFire]

I never really looked at it that way. Yeah, I dumped my childhood Brownies in favor of the Los Angeles Rams, but I never dumped the Rams, who still remain my favorite NFC team. Far better to say my beloved Bengals simply surpassed the Rams, no doubt in part because they sprung up in my own backyard, but mostly because they were founded by the same Paul Brown I had grown to respect.

See, there you go. You're attached too.

Of course I'm attached. There's nothing unique about the way I developed into a football fan....or for that matter why I remain one even under less than ideal circumstances. But despite my well earned reputation and as grumpy old f**k I'm mostly a happy guy, and I won't go negative. At least not in the same way the WDR has gone negative. For example, I won't pretend I'm still a fan when every thought that flashes across my frontal lobe is negative. And I won't waste my time or money making demands I know won't be acted upon. Rather, I'll just walk away......until things get better. Which as you may recall I did for a few months last season. And as sad as it makes me to say, I wouldn't have come back if I no longer had that hope.

Bottom Line: They have a name for something that kills it's host from within, and that name certainly isn't rebel or enlightened fan. They call it...cancer.

[Pidge]

Or parasite.

[Bearcat1975]

Bottom Line: They have a name for something that kills it's host from within, and that name certainly isn't rebel or enlightened fan. They call it...cancer.

I thought you liked Mike Brown. Now you call him a cancer?

Strange...

Or maybe you meant that you FOUND cancer when your head was up Mike Brown's ass?