John Thronton's blog on training camp

[BlainThePain]

http://www.allproblogger.com/2009/08/02/views-from-bengals-training-camp/

Views from Bengals Training Camp

August 2nd, 2009 | Bengals, NFL

Good to be back blogging. I have to admit, Twitter is a lot easier to use and quicker to update, but I can post more on AllProBlogger.com.

I had a chance to go to Georgetown, KY to watch the Bengals practice on Saturday morning. It was nice to watch as a non Bengal. I will list a few observations later in this post but I want to get a few things out first. I want to thank the Bengals organization for six great years. The team has always treated me with respect and I gave the same respect back in return. I wish them well this year and beyond. Just about every member of the organization came up to me and shared kind words. Mike Brown was the first to come over. He told me that I had on the wrong uniform because I was dressed in jeans and a t shirt. He said that with a smile, but it was cool for him to say. Troy and Katie Blackburn came over to talk as well. Marvin Lewis even motioned over to me to come onto the field and talk to him. So all in all, it was a good trip. I’m sure that the love fest will soon stop, but it was cool. Training Camp is just starting so there aren’t many negative things to harp on. That will come once the preseason starts and you get to see guys in live action.

10 Early Observations

1. With all the talk of Hard Knocks being at Bengals Camp, I didn’t get the impression that the players were affected that much. There were cameras following Marvin Lewis about 90% of the time, but other than that it was pretty low key. Then again, the most interesting part of Hard Knocks to me is the off the field stuff. Fans see practice all the time during camp. The things that happen while the players are in meetings, down time, and coaches meetings are what I’m looking forward to seeing.

2. No heat. Training camp practices are usually hot and muggy. Saturday’s practice was a very nice 85 degrees. Marvin, like most coaches, like it to be hot so players can get used to playing in the heat. It also gets the players in football shape quicker.

3. Quicker Tempo. One of the complaints form past and current players, is that Marvin Lewis practices are way too long. I don’t know if it was just me or not, but the morning practice was crisp.

4. Safety battle will make the defense better. This is the first time in awhile that the safety position will be a strength on the defense. SS Roy Williams and SS Chinedum Ndukwe are going to battle for the SS spot. I think that Roy Williams is the teams choice to be the starter because of his resume. He is a Pro Bowl SS, who will bring a physical presence to the team that has been lacking. Not that the team didn’t have physical players, but Roy is “known” around the league as being physical. The knock against Roy is his pass D, but the knock against the Bengals is their run D. Should be a good match. Ndukwe makes too many good plays in practice not to make this a good competition. Plus I think Chinny will be used in the Bengals three Safety packages. FS Chris Crocker is a lock to be a starter. He is very savvy and he is a gamer. Can also play the nickel corner if needed.

5. Domata Peko has improved his footwork. I saw this during the 9 on 7 (inside run drill) period during practice. Peko used to false step when he was playing the NG position. Players do this when they are guessing which way the ball is going to go. Taking a false step can make a player play soft on double teams, and it can cause the defender to give up his gap on running plays, creating a seam in the defense. Peko is good enough and fast enough to overcome most of his false steps, but he will be much stronger inside if he continues to improve. Another reason you don’t want to false step is because the OL can get up to the LBs a lot easier if you are behind on the block. I even saw Dhani Jones thank Peko after they got done because he was clean to the ball carrier a few times.

6. DE Antwan Odom is a lot bigger. I know this is old news, but I’m interested in seeing if this will help Antwan. While he played for the Titans, and when I played for the Titans, weight was never an issue. We were free to weigh whatever we wanted as long as we could run fast and play hard. And the DE’s were always lined up on outside the widest man on the line of scrimmage, DE’s never had to square up and take a OL on head-up. In Cincy, DE’s have to play head up on TE’s and OT’s sometimes. So that’s why Antwan put on so much weight this off season. He couldn’t hold up in this system if he played at his Titans weight. He still has his speed so he should be fine.

7. C Kyle Cook should settle the Offensive Line. Eric Ghiaciuc was a three year starter for the Bengals, but he was never able to fully replace Rich Braham. In fact, Ghiaciuc only made the Bengals and their fans miss Richie that much more. All of that wasn’t Eric’s fault. I felt bad for him. Eric’s make up was just different than Rich’s. People say you never want to be the man that replaces the man, and that happened to Eric. He had a shot to be the long term guy at the center position, but it didn’t pan out. Kyle Cook will get his shot. Kyle is a tough guy, with a lot of weight room strength. Coaches also think he is the smartest OL on the team. How he does in the preseason will tell if the teams OL problems will be solved. Kyle has been a great practice player over the past few years, but now he has to do it in games. I think having big Bobbie Williams playing OG next to him will help.

8. Figure what to do with DE/LB Michael Johnson(MJ93). The Bengals can play MJ93 in a number of places on defense. When I watched him, he was working with the DL. In my opinion, they should play him in one place and let him master that position first, before making him the jack of all trades. As I wrote on my Twitter page, MJ93 reminds me of Titans DE Jevon Kearse when he came out of Florida. Jevon was a LB at Florida, but the Titans decided to make him a full time DE. Jevon hated that at first. DL coach Jim Washburn knew that the only way Jevon was going to make the transition, was to have success in training camp. So Washburn made Jevon go up against OT Jon Runyan in every drill, everyday. Runyan is maybe the nastiest OT in football, he tried to make Jevon quit, but Jevon figured it out and became great early in his career. MJ93 has to find a role on 1st and 2nd downs. Is he a DE or a LB? Now on 3rd down, MJ93 will be the Bengals wild card. He can be used in a number of roles then. He will probably the most flexible player on defense. If the Bengals were playing a 3-4 defense, MJ93 would be an OLB and it would be easier to toy around with him. But being in a 4-3 D, the team needs to find out where he can play the best on early downs.

9. Team in shape? LT Andrew Whitworth is a lot lighter. When I ran into Big Whit, I asked how much weight he was down. He said that he has dropped 25 lbs. He looks really thin. I saw him out eating breakfast a few months ago and he looked a lot heavier. My guess is that Whit wanted to be lighter the second time around a LT. In 2006, Whitworth played well replacing Levi Jones at LT, but the one game that he struggled in was against the Colts on MNF. The Colts have small, fast DE’s. Another player that has helped himself is DE Frostee Rucker. Frostee was in the high 290’s in mid May and left mini camp at 292 lbs. The team put a training camp reporting weight of 280 lbs on Rucker. He checked in at 275. This will give Frostee a better chance to make the team this year. He needs to stay healthy. When he plays, he helps the team. Frostee is also a client of mine, so I will take a little credit for his turnaround!! ( slightly joking).

10. Bengals MUST go at least 10-6. I predicted the playoffs for this team back in February (google it if you want), but it is going to take a lot of work to get there. The reason I think that the team will do well, is that there are so many players with something to prove. When your best player, QB Carson Palmer, is coming off of a bad year, you know that he is going to come back and be twice as good. The rest of the team should follow his lead. I can name many players that are in the same boat. Chad, OL, Robert Geathers, Antwan Odom, Keith Rivers, Johnathan Joseph, Roy Williams, Tank Johnson, there are probably a few more guys that “need” to play big to bounce back, but that’s quite an impressive list. So with all of these players working hard to have a better year, I see this team playing well. I think the Steelers are the top dog in the AFC North, and I see the Bengals and the Ravens fighting it out for 2nd place in the division. The Ravens had some big losses in the off season, but they have a great tradition of playing good football and replacing lost talent. I see the Browns finishing last again. No need to explain that. They seem to be doing all of the wrong things.

[ArmyBengal]

"I see the Browns finishing last again. No need to explain that. They seem to be doing all of the wrong things."

While I really did enjoy the entire read, this parting shot made me smile !!!

[kingwilly]

Re the SS battle.

He notes that Roy will make the Bengals run D better. Let's say this happens. Do you think this would possibly expose JJoe and Leon as a bit of busts? I think they may have come to rely on the excuse, "not our fault, we could not stop the run", as to imply they did their job stopping the pass.

As the Bengals run D improves, look for how JJoe and Leon either improve effort or get exposed.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Really great read. This is the sort of useful info you miss out on when the regular "journalists" are filing puff pieces. I'll say this - I didn't like watching him play, but I really like reading his stuff.

Seems like a great guy, and he can write. Too close to the team to cover the Bengals, but I really think he should get a shot somewhere.

[Clackwoods]

Re the SS battle.

He notes that Roy will make the Bengals run D better. Let's say this happens. Do you think this would possibly expose JJoe and Leon as a bit of busts? I think they may have come to rely on the excuse, "not our fault, we could not stop the run", as to imply they did their job stopping the pass.

As the Bengals run D improves, look for how JJoe and Leon either improve effort or get exposed.

Leon Hall can play against the run. Joseph is better in coverage, but he can do it as well. I think having some safeties to crush the run will only help them not expose them. Leon is far from a bust and I think when healthy JJ is far from it as well.

[Bearcat1975]

Really great read. This is the sort of useful info you miss out on when the regular "journalists" are filing puff pieces. I'll say this - I didn't like watching him play, but I really like reading his stuff.

Seems like a great guy, and he can write. Too close to the team to cover the Bengals, but I really think he should get a shot somewhere.

x2

You can tell he is a homer but its ok because his observations and writing style are very insightful. I hope to see more. He almost had me thinking playoffs for a minute.

[Ickey44]

Really great read. This is the sort of useful info you miss out on when the regular "journalists" are filing puff pieces. I'll say this - I didn't like watching him play, but I really like reading his stuff.

Seems like a great guy, and he can write. Too close to the team to cover the Bengals, but I really think he should get a shot somewhere.

x2

You can tell he is a homer but its ok because his observations and writing style are very insightful. I hope to see more. He almost had me thinking playoffs for a minute.

You mean when you realized that not only is your glass half empty, but that it's completely empty?

[Kazkal]

Really great read. This is the sort of useful info you miss out on when the regular "journalists" are filing puff pieces. I'll say this - I didn't like watching him play, but I really like reading his stuff.

Seems like a great guy, and he can write. Too close to the team to cover the Bengals, but I really think he should get a shot somewhere.

x2

X3......Joseph isn't a bust yet and Hall is no where near being one.

[ArmyBengal]

JJoe needs to have a season without injury, but he has the talent to play at a high level.

It was just last year when Zimmer came in with a new approach that people (me to) were thinking JJoe may have a pro bowl season.

This one isn't any different and may be even better of a shot with an added pass rush and more veteran help.

JJoe with no injuries would be a VERY nice thing to see.

[kingwilly]

as there will always be injuries, if he felt like playing again then one that may interest Thornton is in Carolina: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4375204

[Bearcat1975]

JJoe needs to have a season without injury, but he has the talent to play at a high level.

It was just last year when Zimmer came in with a new approach that people (me to) were thinking JJoe may have a pro bowl season.

This one isn't any different and may be even better of a shot with an added pass rush and more veteran help.

JJoe with no injuries would be a VERY nice thing to see.

Count me in the camp that thinks Joseph and Hall would be shutdown corners on a team like the Ravens. Hall got burned a few times last season, particularly against the Ravens curiously enough, but otherwise he was pretty solid.

The key to the Bengals secondary, and entire defense for that matter, is they need to get pressure from the front 4 for a change, and Roy Williams needs to not be like Ohalete in pass coverage.

[ArmyBengal]

Holy sh*t, an OhIsuckAlote reference !!!

[Clackwoods]

I was sitting here reading the posts and I had an epiphany. John isn't signing with any teams yet because he is keeping himself available in the event that the Bengals lose someone in training camp. He seems to have a true appreciation for the city and the fans and a real love for the team which explains him keeping his options open. He would be the best person to sign if we did lose a DT or two in camp. Once camp is over I forsee him signing with another team@

[BengalszoneBilly]

I was sitting here reading the posts and I had an epiphany. John isn't signing with any teams yet because he is keeping himself available in the event that the Bengals lose someone in training camp.

Damn well could be. Never thought of that.

[ArmyBengal]

Maybe, but with the Bengals trading away one DT already without replacing him on the roster, I don't think they are that concerned. Or at least they weren't thinking they could trade Orien away with the thought of bringing back Thornton if someone get injured. My other line of thought to that would be I liked Thornton's play at DE more than I liked it at the DT position.

[derekshank]

My other line of thought to that would be I liked Thornton's play at DE more than I liked it at the DT position.

Yep. Thornton would be a very good 3-4 DE. That's the direction he should head to continue his NFL career.

[ArmyBengal]

JJoe needs to have a season without injury, but he has the talent to play at a high level.

It was just last year when Zimmer came in with a new approach that people (me to) were thinking JJoe may have a pro bowl season.

This one isn't any different and may be even better of a shot with an added pass rush and more veteran help.

JJoe with no injuries would be a VERY nice thing to see.

And today, this from DDN...

Cincinnati Bengals starting cornerback Johnathan Joseph is entering his fourth year in the league and is preparing for an impact season.

Joseph hasn’t quite been able to reach that next plateau since being drafted by the team with the 24th overall pick in the 2006 draft. The cornerback’s progress has been hindered by some unfortunate circumstances both on and off the field.

Joseph started out with a promising rookie year playing in all 16 games, starting nine. He finished the season with 57 tackles, including a career-best 10 tackles against arch rival Pittsburgh.

In 2007, Joseph showed real signs of being worthy of the first-round selection. He had a strong sophomore year, finishing the season with 62 tackles and four interceptions. It wasn’t until after the season that things went dreadfully wrong.

Joseph was arrested and charged with marijuana possession in Kentucky after a Boone County sheriff’s deputy stopped a vehicle in which he was a passenger. The misdemeanor charge was later dismissed after Joseph completed a substance abuse program.

In 2008, Joseph’s season was cut short due to injury. He played in eight games and missed the team’s last five games with a season-ending foot injury. He recorded 42 tackles and one interception.

That brings us to Bengals training camp 2009 ,where Joseph is off to a terrific start and is one happy camper.

“I’m glad to be out here and back on the field,” Joseph said. “I’m 100 percent healthy and I think that I’m in the best shape I have ever been in camp. I’ve trimmed a few pounds off and just happy to be back with the guys.”

Joseph usually comes in weighing around 195 pounds, but trimmed some body fat this offseason, cutting his weight down to a chiseled 188.

Joseph said he thinks it will pay off big for the team this season because he’s much quicker.

The cornerback has mixed it up pretty good in camp, showing his ability to cover and support the run. Joseph’s strength is no doubt his cover skills. I haven’t seen him get beat deep once during practice and he keeps everything in front of him. Despite the solid performance there is still room for improvement.

“I have to work on staying consistent,” Joseph said. “The thing that the coaches are working on with me is getting my eyes out of the backfield looking at the quarterback too long. They always say if you see the ball thrown you’re going to see it caught as well. I have been working on staying square in backpedal and exploding out of my breaks. Once I get those basic fundamentals under my belt the sky is the limit.”

Joseph was adamant about making a statement on the playing field this season and knows what it will take.

“When I’m in the game I make plays,” he said. “The team just needs a full season out of me whether it’s 16 or 20 games. It’s important that I stay healthy and stay consistent. I’m focused on what it will take to win ball games. The guys know that they can count on me when I’m healthy. I worked hard during the spring to prepare for training camp and I’m ready to take my game to the next level.”

/>http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayton-sports/cincinnati-bengals/bengals-cornerback-primed-for-impact-season-235796.html

[HairOnFire]

My other line of thought to that would be I liked Thornton's play at DE more than I liked it at the DT position.

I'm selfish in the sense that I like Thornton's writing more than anything he might still offer as a player. And I say that mostly because Thornton brings actual player insight, but also because of what he doesn't bring. That being, a negative agenda.

Not kidding a bit.

[ArmyBengal]

My other line of thought to that would be I liked Thornton's play at DE more than I liked it at the DT position.

I'm selfish in the sense that I like Thornton's writing more than anything he might still offer as a player. And I say that mostly because Thornton brings actual player insight, but also because of what he doesn't bring. That being, a negative agenda.

Not kidding a bit.

I was strictly speaking to where I would prefer to see him if he did in fact put the helmet back on, but yeah, I agree completely...

[HoosierCat]

Thornton's blog is the best Bengals blog out there by far.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

I agree anything other than the fluff garbage Hobson writes (I never bother unless it's news) and the stuff Reedy @ the Enquirer puts out there (blurbs) is fine by me, and Thorton at least takes the time to talk to fans as if they know something about the game.

BTW Hall is already a solid NFL CB - not sure why his name and "bust" are even mentioned in this thread. He's had no support here from other CB's or even cover safeties, and does just fine despite that.

[ArmyBengal]

Without going back to look, I don't remember anyone saying Hall was a bust. I would disagree...