Andre Smith fires Rick Smith

[BengalByTheBay]

Character must age like fine wine. 17 years old just won't cut it.

So, again, should we just blindly accept your opinion as opposed to, you know, real definitions of words and stuff?

Since you enjoy making points with movie quotes, I will respond in kind:

"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

[Pidge]

The two are related

Are they? Penty of 50 yr old douchebags out there. My horribly ignorant opinion: A lot of character is formed by how you're raised. For example, I love my parents deeply and we were/are very jokey and friends as well as parents and child. I knew very early what was right and wrong from a young age though as the thought of physical pain, or admonishment by the authorities would not have deterred me much in my various hi-jinks. The look of thunder on my mother's face when I transgressed and weeks of being in the doghouse with my dad quickly gave me pause before I did certain things or acted certain ways.

The average age of a Royal Marine Commando is 23 and I think even younger for the US Marine Corps. Not too many of them lack character, even at their young age. Who knows, maybe it's simply largely down to discipline (albeit a much more defined variety in the military) for most people. You don't have guidance or boundaries at a young age and you might be more susceptible to being a douchebag, barring some epiphany later on in life after suffering [particularly horrible consequence, for the rest of your natural. Even then, I know a girl who had one of the bleakest starts to life I have ever known and she's just helped start up her second company. She's only a yr older than Smith. Maybe she has more experience than a person 15 yrs older due to her unconventional start in life. But no, I'll tell her she lacks character.

Smith might be guilty of making a mistake but then don't we all? Hell I'm sure even Billy and Army (hell maybe bearcat once made a tiny boo boo) etc have dropped a clanger here and there. It's called being human and isn't evidence of lacking character as bearcat seems to be suggesting.

It's such a frighteningly simplistic POV.

[HoosierCat]

The two are related

Are they? Penty of 50 yr old douchebags out there. My horribly ignorant opinion: A lot of character is formed by how you're raised.

Of course. Only fools will argue that point. As to wisdom and character: yes, they are related; your character shows in whether you pay attention to what you've learned...or become that 50-year-old douchebag. Empathy is key here.

[Bearcat1975]

So, again, should we just blindly accept your opinion as opposed to, you know, real definitions of words and stuff?

No, Bob. This is a forum. Point/Counterpoint, "I agree," "I disagree," that sort of thing.

Since you enjoy making points with movie quotes, I will respond in kind:

"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

Did you really just use a quote from Billy Madison? An overplayed internet quote at that. Honestly, if someone wants to disagree with my definition of character that is fine. Many here have made some pretty compelling counterpoints actually. But for you to throw a Billy Madison quote in the middle of a pretty decent philosophical discussion... pretty weak on all counts.

You're like a child that wanders into the room where the grown-ups are talking...

[ArmyBengal]

Attributes such as loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honesty, integrity, and personal courage. It's things like those mentioned that produce an individual of "high character" and something you DO see in 17 year olds.

What you are describing is valor combined with the feeling that you are invincible.

Which has nothing to do with character, in my opinion.

Thing is...''character" really is a subjective term, much like "probable cause" or "reasonable." Some people even equate honesty with character, whereas I belive that honesty is more of a character enabler when coupled with perspective.

I get the whole agree / disagree point when talking about being in a forum, but the point is, the definition of the word isn't up for debate. It is what it is and I have already described that. You think what I described is "valor" and had you bothered to look up that word, you would have seen it defined by two simple words, "personal bravery". Of all the attributes I listed and you quoted, valor was not one of them.

Once again, it's not an agree / disagree, it's defined, but I'm done giving definitives...

[BengalByTheBay]

Did you really just use a quote from Billy Madison? An overplayed internet quote at that. Honestly, if someone wants to disagree with my definition of character that is fine. Many here have made some pretty compelling counterpoints actually. But for you to throw a Billy Madison quote in the middle of a pretty decent philosophical discussion... pretty weak on all counts.

You're like a child that wanders into the room where the grown-ups are talking...

The shoe fit. I'll defer to you on the "overplayed internet quote" as you seem to be uniquely aware of what stupid crap is plastered all over the internet. With that in mind, I plead guilty to thinking it was only full of stupid pictures with lame captions.

As for the "adult" conversation, I think the adults have been drinking. I can think of at least one adult who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. In this discussion which has apparently turned philosophical, you are completely unwilling to listen or learn or admit when you are wrong so, tell me again about this impressive "grown-ups'" conversation? Sounds to me like you're holding your hands over your ears and talking. Any chance you can hold your breath til you turn blue?

[ArmyBengal]

Hell I'm sure even Billy and Army have dropped a clanger here and there.

When I was a private back in 1990, I was busted down a rank for having chased my First Sergeant down the hall in a drunken rage with a fire extinguisher.

I really enjoyed Germany !!!

[Pidge]

Hell I'm sure even Billy and Army have dropped a clanger here and there.

When I was a private back in 1990, I was busted down a rank for having chased my First Sergeant down the hall in a drunken rage with a fire extinguisher.

I really enjoyed Germany !!!

I assume he wasn't on fire at the time.

[Pidge]

The two are related

Are they? Penty of 50 yr old douchebags out there. My horribly ignorant opinion: A lot of character is formed by how you're raised.

Of course. Only fools will argue that point. As to wisdom and character: yes, they are related; your character shows in whether you pay attention to what you've learned...or become that 50-year-old douchebag. Empathy is key here.

I don't disagree with you. Empathy is very important. There are many wise people out there who still act like dicks (those in advertising for example) People with a vast amount of experience who use that to their advantage, sometimes at the expense of otheres. We're all capable of being turds. Whether we choose to or not comes down to character in most cases.

[ArmyBengal]

Hell I'm sure even Billy and Army have dropped a clanger here and there.

When I was a private back in 1990, I was busted down a rank for having chased my First Sergeant down the hall in a drunken rage with a fire extinguisher.

I really enjoyed Germany !!!

I assume he wasn't on fire at the time.

Well, after a LOOOOOOONG night of drinking and the fact that I thought he was a walking dick, I wasn't taking any chances.

When asked the next day why I did what I did, I thought it would be funny to use the, "It wasn't me" line.

15 additional days of extra duty cured me of trying to be humorous while in the middle of deep sh*t ever again...

[Bearcat1975]

Once again, it's not an agree / disagree, it's defined, but I'm done giving definitives...

It is indeed defined. But I am talking about the dictionary definition, not your personal definition.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/character

Again, character, or "high character" in this case, is VERY loosely defined and certainly open to interpretation. I will give you that. I happen to believe that 17 year old white kids from the burbs as well as spoiled young football players who have had their asses kissed for the better part of 10 years are incapable of high character. You disagree. That's fine, but don't act like the definition of high character is cut and dry. Do you define football by stats alone?

Now, onto valor. Was what it you said again? Oh yeah...

You think what I described is "valor" and had you bothered to look up that word, you would have seen it defined by two simple words, "personal bravery". Of all the attributes I listed and you quoted, valor was not one of them.

–noun

boldness or determination in facing great danger, esp. in battle; heroic courage; bravery: a medal for valor.

What I am saying is, standing in front of a tank heading toward you getting ready to fire, while others flee, is not "high character." It is the combination of feeling invincible coupled with the whole valor thing AS DEFINED BY DICTIONARY.COM., not armybengal's brain.

And don't ask me if I bothered to look something up. The dictionary looks ME up for clarification, understand?

(lol)

[ArmyBengal]

Once again, it's not an agree / disagree, it's defined, but I'm done giving definitives...

It is indeed defined. But I am talking about the dictionary definition, not your personal definition.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/character

Again, character, or "high character" in this case, is VERY loosely defined and certainly open to interpretation. I will give you that. I happen to believe that 17 year old white kids from the burbs as well as spoiled young football players who have had their asses kissed for the better part of 10 years are incapable of high character. You disagree. That's fine, but don't act like the definition of high character is cut and dry. Do you define football by stats alone?

Now, onto valor. Was what it you said again? Oh yeah...

You think what I described is "valor" and had you bothered to look up that word, you would have seen it defined by two simple words, "personal bravery". Of all the attributes I listed and you quoted, valor was not one of them.

–noun

boldness or determination in facing great danger, esp. in battle; heroic courage; bravery: a medal for valor.

What I am saying is, standing in front of a tank heading toward you getting ready to fire, while others flee, is not "high character." It is the combination of feeling invincible coupled with the whole valor thing AS DEFINED BY DICTIONARY.COM., not armybengal's brain.

And don't ask me if I bothered to look something up. The dictionary looks ME up for clarification, understand?

(lol)

My personal definition COMES from the dictionary. If you choose to change the definition to suit your own opinion, that is your choice. As for the definition you gave of Valor, the two simple words I gave encompass EVERYTHING you took the time to write, so thanks for proving my point there. I'm not the one who gave the example of standing in front of a tank or whatever it was so go back and argue that one with the person giving it. Another thing I will also give you as a definitive is, NO ONE who is getting shot at, blown up, or anything of that nature "FEELS INVINCIBLE" and I don't know why you keep going to that well. Hell, even the place you tell me to look (dictionary.com) says NOTHING about "feeling invincible". So are you sure I'M the one coming up with sh*t out of thin air ?? Do you even know what any of this stuff means ?? Have you personally experienced it or did you just watch a History channel special last night ?? My definition comes from not only given sources, but personal experience.

Yes, I will once again tell you to look something up, because even when I told you to do that the first time, you came back with a definition you gave a source for finding it from, and YOU WERE WRONG. Try again...

[derekshank]

Arguments that are based on opinions (no matter how inane) are one thing... but to engage in an argument about something that is a matter of public record (i.e. the definition of a word) is idiotic. It would be like me arguing that Carson Palmer started all 16 games last year. Anyone could point to any number of sources that prove me incorrect, but if I'm unwilling to admit I'm a dink, it's just a waste of your time, right?

You don't argue with the mentally insane using reason and logic... so why try it with Bearcat when it has proved to be so fruitless? You all should try ignoring him like I did. The board has seemed so much nicer... except for the few threads (like this one) that he has managed to hijack with meaningless rabbit trails making his idiocy impossible to avoid.

So anyway... back on topic.

The Neverending story (ah ah ahh, ah ah ahh, ah ah ahh)

PRIORITY SPORTS MULLING ACTION AGAINST KEELS

Posted by Mike Florio on May 24, 2009, 1:21 p.m. EDT

Although the folks at Priority Sports have said all that they plan to say about former client Andre Smith, the sixth overall pick in the 2009 draft, there’s talk that Priority Sports still might have more to say about Smith’s “new” agent, Alvin Keels.

We’re told that Priority Sports is mulling the filing of a complaint against Keels for violation of the NFLPA’s regulations rearding contract advisors.

At this point, the specific claims, if any are made, aren’t clear. Agents are prohibited from initiating contact with a player who is a party to a Standard Representation Agreement with another agent. But contact is permitted if initiated by the player.

In this case, Andre Smith fired Priority Sports, and shortly thereafter Keels was candid about the fact that he was “in a heated battle right now to win [smith’s] business back.” Some think that, during the five-day mandatory waiting period after an agent has been fired, no other agent may have contact with the player, even if initiated by the player. Others believe that contact during the five-day period is permitted, if initiated by the player. Though the regulations are silent on this specific point, Section 12 of the Standard Representation Agreement states that the contract remains in place until five days after written termination is given. This implies to us that contact during the five-day period is permitted, if initiated by the player.

Either way, it arguably wasn’t prudent for Keels to announce to the world (via Twitter) that he was “in a heated battle” to “win [smith’s] business back.”

Complicating the present situation is the rumor/theory/belief that Smith fired Keels prior to the draft with the intent of hiring Priority Sports and then firing Priority Sports after the draft and re-hiring Keels.

So apart from whether Keels violated the rules regarding contact with a player who is being represented by another agent, Priority Sports could argue that Keels engineered the kind of scheme that the rules generally prohibit.

Section 14 of the regulations regarding Prohibited Conduct states that agents are forbidden from “[e]ngaging in unlawful conduct and/or conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit, misrepresentation, or other activity which reflects adversely on his/her fitness as a Contract Advisor or jeopardizes his/her effective representation of NFL players.”

It remains to be seen whether and to what extent Priority Sports is willing to push this issue. Based on the tone and content of the statement that the agency issued regarding Smith, it wouldn’t surprise us if Priority Sports decides to pursue the matter aggressively.

My favorite thing about the article is one of the member comments under it:

Can’t wait until this hits the courts and there is an injunction against Smith signing a contract until compensation to Priority Sports is determined by a jury.

That'll never happen... but it's fun to bring it up so the hand wringing can begin.

[Bearcat1975]

My personal definition COMES from the dictionary. If you choose to change the definition to suit your own opinion, that is your choice.

Mine are all quoted from dictionary.com? Yours on the other hand? "From the gut?" I dunno...

As for the definition you gave of Valor, the two simple words I gave encompass EVERYTHING you took the time to write, so thanks for proving my point there.

Again, mine is from dictionary.com so you're welcome I guess?

I'm not the one who gave the example of standing in front of a tank or whatever it was so go back and argue that one with the person giving it. Another thing I will also give you as a definitive is, NO ONE who is getting shot at, blown up, or anything of that nature "FEELS INVINCIBLE" and I don't know why you keep going to that well.

So you say. Even if that was true, which it is not, I never said that in the first place. I said 17 year olds all think they are invincible. Getting shot at is probably quite the wake up call there I am sure.

Hell, even the place you tell me to look (dictionary.com) says NOTHING about "feeling invincible". So are you sure I'M the one coming up with sh*t out of thin air ??

You can't just take random sentences of mine and put them all into one. You are mixing topics again, armybengal.

Do you even know what any of this stuff means ?? Have you personally experienced it or did you just watch a History channel special last night ?? My definition comes from not only given sources, but personal experience.

I am happy for your personal experience whatever that is, but do not dismiss what you don't know anything about in regard to mine. You are saying you have known quite a few brave, charismatic, good leaders, whatever 17 year olds. I say 17 year olds cannot possibly attain high character at such a young age.

Yes, I will once again tell you to look something up, because even when I told you to do that the first time, you came back with a definition you gave a source for finding it from, and YOU WERE WRONG. Try again...

You may need to go back a reread that one.

[Bearcat1975]

Arguments that are based on opinions (no matter how inane) are one thing... but to engage in an argument about something that is a matter of public record (i.e. the definition of a word) is idiotic.

There is no concrete definition of "high character." Sorry to break that to you.

It would be like me arguing that Carson Palmer started all 16 games last year. Anyone could point to any number of sources that prove me incorrect, but if I'm unwilling to admit I'm a dink, it's just a waste of your time, right?

Pretty much. But I type fast so I'm willing to give you another chance from time to time.

You don't argue with the mentally insane using reason and logic...

Well then how are people supposed to debate you?

so why try it with Bearcat when it has proved to be so fruitless? You all should try ignoring him like I did.

Good job with that too.

The board has seemed so much nicer... except for the few threads (like this one) that he has managed to hijack with meaningless rabbit trails making his idiocy impossible to avoid.

QQ. You can derelick my balls dude.

So anyway... back on topic.

Thank heavens people like you are here to take the high road and show us little people the err of our ways. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[COB]

We’re told that Priority Sports is mulling the filing of a complaint against Keels for violation of the NFLPA’s regulations rearding contract advisors.

Florio acting as Priority Sports' dedicated PR department again.

Hopefully these agents will sue each other into oblivion. This dimwitted kid hasn't even signed a contract or gotten dollar one yet, and these jackasses are already fighting over his money. I've seen leeches with more integrity.

[COB]

Thank heavens people like you are here to take the high road and show us little people the err of our ways. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

I accept the fact that you are a Steeler fan and a Bengal hater.

I accept the fact that you're wrong most of the time when you choose to blather on about off-topic topics like word definitions.

What I object to is the fact that you are stupefyingly dull.

[derekshank]

Thank heavens people like you are here to take the high road and show us little people the err of our ways. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

I accept the fact that you are a Steeler fan and a Bengal hater.

I accept the fact that you're wrong most of the time when you choose to blather on about off-topic topics like word definitions.

What I object to is the fact that you are stupefyingly dull.

C'mon COB... you're feeding into his negativity again. I think he gets his energy from muddying up what could be good threads... oh, and also eating the souls of Bengal fans.

The nice thing about the position I am in is that I assume Bearcat has attacked me, because I attempted to get this thread back on topic, and took a shot at him in the process... but am lucky enough to only have to read

You have chosen to ignore all posts from: Bearcat1975.

Seriously... you guys should try it. The vast majority of these threads would be able to stay on topic if he was simply ignored.

Even funnier... he'll probably take another shot at me for ultimately taking the advice he gave me... to ignore him. But it will never reach me, proving that he merely likes to take shots at people regardless of whether they are listening or not. The true embodiment of a person needing to be ignored.

[derekshank]

We’re told that Priority Sports is mulling the filing of a complaint against Keels for violation of the NFLPA’s regulations rearding contract advisors.

Florio acting as Priority Sports' dedicated PR department again.

Hopefully these agents will sue each other into oblivion. This dimwitted kid hasn't even signed a contract or gotten dollar one yet, and these jackasses are already fighting over his money. I've seen leeches with more integrity.

Yeah. It's really sad is all it is. What role Smith has had in starting this whole thing is up for debate... but I'm just hoping there is no actual distraction here that keeps this deal from getting done in time.

[ArmyBengal]

Bearcat, I have given you the CONCRETE definition of the word and provided examples (attributes) that quantify the definition as recognized by the general population worldwide.

Yes, you gave me where to find the definition of the words you speak of and but used a different explaination than the site you referenced.

You say 17 year olds feel invincible, some may, but that is NOT the large spectrum you are talking about.

I didn't mix topics, I merely gave you an example of one of your thoughts that was in error.

In all of my years here I have tried to be level headed and have not personally attacked anyone here unless given ample reason to. You have not given me that reason either, but I will take the advice of a poster I respect here and ignore you from here on out. It will be the first time I have ever had to use that tool here. Sad that you cannot understand. I'm sure there will be follow on shots taken just as you do with Derek. To that I say feel free. You truly are special...

[derekshank]

I will take the advice of a poster I respect here and ignore you from here on out. It will be the first time I have ever had to use that tool here. Sad that you cannot understand. I'm sure there will be follow on shots taken just as you do with Derek. To that I say feel free. You truly are special...

It is sad isn't it? I mean... I've certainly had my share of run-ins with other strong personalities on this board that I disagreed with. agreen, Shula, hell even TJ and Hoosier from time to time have gotten to me. But never in my 4 years here have I ever even been tempted to have to use an "ignore" feature. Not once. I've never used it before, and doubt I'll ever use it again.

It just seems sad when a debate stops being about a topic at hand and gets to be about nothing more than a constant stream of drivel to avoid saying "I was wrong." And that seems to be the major difference between the aforementioned people and Bearcat. He'd rather ruin a thread defending nonsense rather than say the 3 words that nearly everyone on this board has had to utter from time to time - and I just can't read his posts anymore. 'Sad' is the only word to describe it.

[ArmyBengal]

I will take the advice of a poster I respect here and ignore you from here on out. It will be the first time I have ever had to use that tool here. Sad that you cannot understand. I'm sure there will be follow on shots taken just as you do with Derek. To that I say feel free. You truly are special...

It is sad isn't it? I mean... I've certainly had my share of run-ins with other strong personalities on this board that I disagreed with. agreen, Shula, hell even TJ and Hoosier from time to time have gotten to me. But never in my 4 years here have I ever even been tempted to have to use an "ignore" feature. Not once. I've never used it before, and doubt I'll ever use it again.

It just seems sad when a debate stops being about a topic at hand and gets to be about nothing more than a constant stream of drivel to avoid saying "I was wrong." And that seems to be the major difference between the aforementioned people and Bearcat. He'd rather ruin a thread defending nonsense rather than say the 3 words that nearly everyone on this board has had to utter from time to time - and I just can't read his posts anymore. 'Sad' is the only word to describe it.

Agree Derek and thanks for the giving the good advice. Being a mod, I make it a point (believe it or not) to read d*mn near every post made here and have always felt the "ignore" feaure was not really a needed tool. I stand corrected...

I would also like to apologize to the remainder of the board for taking this thread WAY off topic.

Here's to hoping it either gets back on track or gets closed.

[BengalByTheBay]

You all should try ignoring him like I did.

Ahhhhhhh! That's better! Excellent idea. If I've ever disagreed with you in the past (and I'm sure I have) I must have been wrong. You're a genius.

[Ickey44]

Andre Smith fired Rick Smith???? When did that happen?!?!?

[BengalByTheBay]

Andre Smith fired Rick Smith???? When did that happen?!?!?

2 weeks ago, 1 week ago, yesterday, this afternoon, tomorrow.....and counting.

You gotta give it to the kid -- he keeps things interesting. Schizophrenia anybody?