I''ve narrowed it down. To DT or OT

[HAPPYJAQ]

I see Denver trying to trade up with us

...but only if they unload Cutler and we'd be in a great position if Detroit doesn't pick Stafford. I think he falls to our back, if it's not Detroit. At that point, you could have Denver and maybe even San Francisco looking to move up. Would Detroit be looking to come back up from 20 to get the best QB, after they take the best OL at #1? If that scenario unfolds, it'll be a matter of whether Oakland's asking price is less than ours, considering that Jacksonville could pull the trigger on a QB, too.

Getting the 20th, 33rd, 38th picks and maybe an extra 5th rounder would be NICE, though.

[derekshank]

I see Denver trying to trade up with us

Interesting thought with Cutler asking for a trade. If he does get traded, I imagine it would be involved in a trade up with a team that needs a QB... like the Jags or 49ers.

However, if the rumors are true that Detroit is looking to go OT with the #1, it is likely that the best QB in the draft will be available at #6, and if the Bengals could somehow manage a trade down to #12, it would probably be a best case scenario for them. I just don't know why Denver would pick the Bengals to trade with at #6, when they only really need to jump to #7 to leapfrog Jacksonville.

[HAPPYJAQ]

I see Denver trying to trade up with us

Interesting thought with Cutler asking for a trade. If he does get traded, I imagine it would be involved in a trade up with a team that needs a QB... like the Jags or 49ers.

However, if the rumors are true that Detroit is looking to go OT with the #1, it is likely that the best QB in the draft will be available at #6, and if the Bengals could somehow manage a trade down to #12, it would probably be a best case scenario for them. I just don't know why Denver would pick the Bengals to trade with at #6, when they only really need to jump to #7 to leapfrog Jacksonville.

It goes back to what I was saying about the Bengals needing to take lesser value than the trade chart represents, to facilitate any trade down. I understand the reasoning behind not wanting to take less value but any additional picks, regardless of round, helps the team. I'd be OK with the Bengals only taking a 4th or high 5th to move down a few slots, if it means that an opportunity to trade down isn't missed. The Bengals will be able to find an equal talent at 12-15 as they would at 6 and with a lesser cap hit. It almost means at least three players for the price of one. Maybe the Bengals can then afford to add a George Foster after the draft, in the savings associated with trading down while grabbing a developmental guy in the 4th or 5th in a trade.

[Clackwoods]

I see Denver trying to trade up with us

Interesting thought with Cutler asking for a trade. If he does get traded, I imagine it would be involved in a trade up with a team that needs a QB... like the Jags or 49ers.

However, if the rumors are true that Detroit is looking to go OT with the #1, it is likely that the best QB in the draft will be available at #6, and if the Bengals could somehow manage a trade down to #12, it would probably be a best case scenario for them. I just don't know why Denver would pick the Bengals to trade with at #6, when they only really need to jump to #7 to leapfrog Jacksonville.

If Detroit does pass on Stafford I could see him going to Seattle. I could see them doing something similar to what the Packers did and get a QB to groom behind a long time starter. Remember, Hassleback has had some back issues lately and he isn't getting any younger. They have also addressed two of their bigger needs in DT and WR!

[Kazkal]

yup. except marvin and mike brown are drafting. so it'll be more like Crabtree at #6, RB in the second round, and P in the third... who needs OL and LBs?

Well with them drafting I say it increases chances of Maualuga

-Marvin loves his linebackers being that Odell or Pollack are no longer on team maybe he wants to get his own reyrey

-Seem have knack for drafting players who played togather Kieft & guycheck,Odell and pollack & CJ+TJ so maybe they think it's good idea to runite rey with keith...

-Some people are saying it's to early for MLB a MLB has never gone this early before well Mike brown won't care about something like that and if he wants his guy he'll sit there and take him see akili....

[ArmyBengal]

It goes back to what I was saying about the Bengals needing to take lesser value than the trade chart represents, to facilitate any trade down. I understand the reasoning behind not wanting to take less value but any additional picks, regardless of round, helps the team. I'd be OK with the Bengals only taking a 4th or high 5th to move down a few slots, if it means that an opportunity to trade down isn't missed. The Bengals will be able to find an equal talent at 12-15 as they would at 6 and with a lesser cap hit. It almost means at least three players for the price of one. Maybe the Bengals can then afford to add a George Foster after the draft, in the savings associated with trading down while grabbing a developmental guy in the 4th or 5th in a trade.

I really wouldn't be anywhere NEAR happy with the Bengals dropping all the way down to the top of the 5th for trading down 6 slots. I know you understand the trade value chart and am not trying to be smart, but the 12th spot is worth 1200 while the 6th spot is worth 1600, so it would take not just one, but TWO 3rd rounders to make up for that move or one 2nd rounder. While I get your point, I just can't see any way the Bengals give up what should be TWO 3rd rounders for ONE 5th just to move down a hondful of spots. Those are the types of decisions that KILL a team.

[HAPPYJAQ]

It goes back to what I was saying about the Bengals needing to take lesser value than the trade chart represents, to facilitate any trade down. I understand the reasoning behind not wanting to take less value but any additional picks, regardless of round, helps the team. I'd be OK with the Bengals only taking a 4th or high 5th to move down a few slots, if it means that an opportunity to trade down isn't missed. The Bengals will be able to find an equal talent at 12-15 as they would at 6 and with a lesser cap hit. It almost means at least three players for the price of one. Maybe the Bengals can then afford to add a George Foster after the draft, in the savings associated with trading down while grabbing a developmental guy in the 4th or 5th in a trade.

I really wouldn't be anywhere NEAR happy with the Bengals dropping all the way down to the top of the 5th for trading down 6 slots. I know you understand the trade value chart and am not trying to be smart, but the 12th spot is worth 1200 while the 6th spot is worth 1600, so it would take not just one, but TWO 3rd rounders to make up for that move or one 2nd rounder. While I get your point, I just can't see any way the Bengals give up what should be TWO 3rd rounders for ONE 5th just to move down a hondful of spots. Those are the types of decisions that KILL a team.

The trade chart is something that I haven't invested a lot of time in, admittedly. I completely agee with you in saying the Bengals should take just ANY offer for trading down. I do believe they should consider trading down if the difference between the trading team's offer and the Bengals offer is a round or less, although I understand there are more trade considerations involved other than pick for pick(s).

It would just be nice to see the Bengals aggressive on draft day, for a change. The last time we were active in trading we acquired picks that ended up being Robert Geathers and Stacy Andrews in the draft. I'm guess I'm just hoping they make some kind of splash on draft day.

[Clackwoods]

It goes back to what I was saying about the Bengals needing to take lesser value than the trade chart represents, to facilitate any trade down. I understand the reasoning behind not wanting to take less value but any additional picks, regardless of round, helps the team. I'd be OK with the Bengals only taking a 4th or high 5th to move down a few slots, if it means that an opportunity to trade down isn't missed. The Bengals will be able to find an equal talent at 12-15 as they would at 6 and with a lesser cap hit. It almost means at least three players for the price of one. Maybe the Bengals can then afford to add a George Foster after the draft, in the savings associated with trading down while grabbing a developmental guy in the 4th or 5th in a trade.

I really wouldn't be anywhere NEAR happy with the Bengals dropping all the way down to the top of the 5th for trading down 6 slots. I know you understand the trade value chart and am not trying to be smart, but the 12th spot is worth 1200 while the 6th spot is worth 1600, so it would take not just one, but TWO 3rd rounders to make up for that move or one 2nd rounder. While I get your point, I just can't see any way the Bengals give up what should be TWO 3rd rounders for ONE 5th just to move down a hondful of spots. Those are the types of decisions that KILL a team.

The trade chart is something that I haven't invested a lot of time in, admittedly. I completely agee with you in saying the Bengals should take just ANY offer for trading down. I do believe they should consider trading down if the difference between the trading team's offer and the Bengals offer is a round or less, although I understand there are more trade considerations involved other than pick for pick(s).

It would just be nice to see the Bengals aggressive on draft day, for a change. The last time we were active in trading we acquired picks that ended up being Robert Geathers and Stacy Andrews in the draft. I'm guess I'm just hoping they make some kind of splash on draft day.

Didn't we miss out on Steven Jackson in that same draft? If we trade down we need to take the BPA at his position. We sure as hell shouldn't trade out of six if Monroe is their and then select Oher in the middle of the first!

[HAPPYJAQ]

It goes back to what I was saying about the Bengals needing to take lesser value than the trade chart represents, to facilitate any trade down. I understand the reasoning behind not wanting to take less value but any additional picks, regardless of round, helps the team. I'd be OK with the Bengals only taking a 4th or high 5th to move down a few slots, if it means that an opportunity to trade down isn't missed. The Bengals will be able to find an equal talent at 12-15 as they would at 6 and with a lesser cap hit. It almost means at least three players for the price of one. Maybe the Bengals can then afford to add a George Foster after the draft, in the savings associated with trading down while grabbing a developmental guy in the 4th or 5th in a trade.

I really wouldn't be anywhere NEAR happy with the Bengals dropping all the way down to the top of the 5th for trading down 6 slots. I know you understand the trade value chart and am not trying to be smart, but the 12th spot is worth 1200 while the 6th spot is worth 1600, so it would take not just one, but TWO 3rd rounders to make up for that move or one 2nd rounder. While I get your point, I just can't see any way the Bengals give up what should be TWO 3rd rounders for ONE 5th just to move down a hondful of spots. Those are the types of decisions that KILL a team.

The trade chart is something that I haven't invested a lot of time in, admittedly. I completely agee with you in saying the Bengals should take just ANY offer for trading down. I do believe they should consider trading down if the difference between the trading team's offer and the Bengals offer is a round or less, although I understand there are more trade considerations involved other than pick for pick(s).

It would just be nice to see the Bengals aggressive on draft day, for a change. The last time we were active in trading we acquired picks that ended up being Robert Geathers and Stacy Andrews in the draft. I'm guess I'm just hoping they make some kind of splash on draft day.

Didn't we miss out on Steven Jackson in that same draft? If we trade down we need to take the BPA at his position. We sure as hell shouldn't trade out of six if Monroe is their and then select Oher in the middle of the first!

If only Crabtree and Andre Smith are there, I'd much rather trade down and get a guy like Oher and also get another player who'll compete to start next year. To me, it's not much different from last year when it was either Sedrick Ellis or Keith Rivers and Pat Sims.

Truthfully, if our offensive line coach is who some of us think he is, I'd rather trade down even if Monroe is there. From a talent/potential standpoint, there's not a lot of difference in either player. A rookie OT is not going to make or break the Bengals next season. Oher does maybe need some serious coaching but what if it's the difference in getting a player like Andre Brown or Rashad Jennings with the acquired pick?

[Clackwoods]

It goes back to what I was saying about the Bengals needing to take lesser value than the trade chart represents, to facilitate any trade down. I understand the reasoning behind not wanting to take less value but any additional picks, regardless of round, helps the team. I'd be OK with the Bengals only taking a 4th or high 5th to move down a few slots, if it means that an opportunity to trade down isn't missed. The Bengals will be able to find an equal talent at 12-15 as they would at 6 and with a lesser cap hit. It almost means at least three players for the price of one. Maybe the Bengals can then afford to add a George Foster after the draft, in the savings associated with trading down while grabbing a developmental guy in the 4th or 5th in a trade.

I really wouldn't be anywhere NEAR happy with the Bengals dropping all the way down to the top of the 5th for trading down 6 slots. I know you understand the trade value chart and am not trying to be smart, but the 12th spot is worth 1200 while the 6th spot is worth 1600, so it would take not just one, but TWO 3rd rounders to make up for that move or one 2nd rounder. While I get your point, I just can't see any way the Bengals give up what should be TWO 3rd rounders for ONE 5th just to move down a hondful of spots. Those are the types of decisions that KILL a team.

The trade chart is something that I haven't invested a lot of time in, admittedly. I completely agee with you in saying the Bengals should take just ANY offer for trading down. I do believe they should consider trading down if the difference between the trading team's offer and the Bengals offer is a round or less, although I understand there are more trade considerations involved other than pick for pick(s).

It would just be nice to see the Bengals aggressive on draft day, for a change. The last time we were active in trading we acquired picks that ended up being Robert Geathers and Stacy Andrews in the draft. I'm guess I'm just hoping they make some kind of splash on draft day.

Didn't we miss out on Steven Jackson in that same draft? If we trade down we need to take the BPA at his position. We sure as hell shouldn't trade out of six if Monroe is their and then select Oher in the middle of the first!

If only Crabtree and Andre Smith are there, I'd much rather trade down and get a guy like Oher and also get another player who'll compete to start next year. To me, it's not much different from last year when it was either Sedrick Ellis or Keith Rivers and Pat Sims.

Truthfully, if our offensive line coach is who some of us think he is, I'd rather trade down even if Monroe is there. From a talent/potential standpoint, there's not a lot of difference in either player. A rookie OT is not going to make or break the Bengals next season. Oher does maybe need some serious coaching but what if it's the difference in getting a player like Andre Brown or Rashad Jennings with the acquired pick?

Aaron Curry

Brian Orakpo

Jason Smith

Michael Crabtree

BJ Raji

Eugene Monroe

One of these six will be their! End of conversation....lol

Trading down would be great, especially for everyone in here that is all over Rey's balls. If he can be as good as Lofa Toupu then I would be ecstatic!

[Wraith]

IMHO

Look IF Detroit goes LT with either J. Smith or Monroe

THEN St. Louis goes J. Smith or Monroe whichever is left, this eliminates OT from the conversation at #6 unless the Bengals are willing to roll the dice on Smith.

Curry then is almost a mortal lock to go to KC who desperately need defensive playmakers

Seahawks are then a wild card, they still need WRs, they need OLine, They need a QB, and they could use secondary help. No Oline there at that position, no secondary that carries that kind of grade so they go Michael Crabtree or Stafford and I am betting they go Crabtree.

Browns Gobble up Orakpo in about a half a second

That leaves us with Raji but DT is not a major need right now so we have Smith and Maualuga but we will also be burning up the trade line since Stafford has fallen to us.

Provided the Lions are content to pickup whomever is left at #20 between Stafford, Sanchez, and Freeman this is how they draft and this is what will happen afterwards IMHO. This is just about the easiest top five to figure out. There are 6 top graded players (Including Stafford, but not including Raji who has been given a 6.35 grade same as Maualuga by Pro Football Weekly) The two wild cards are the Lions at 1 and the Seahawks at 4. The Lions will go either Stafford or one of the two LTs guessing that LT is their pick since the emergence of Freeman as a first round graded player. That only leaves the Seahawks and that decision should be an easy one. Provided both top Tackles are gone their next greatest need is at WR which is also where the highest graded player left on the board plays. And even if St Louis throws a curveball and selects Curry ahead of the Chiefs, it is likely that the Chiefs select Crabtree then and the Seahawks select Monroe or J. Smith.

Pro Football Weekly has the following grades on the three players that are likely to fall to us.

Andre Smith 6.40

Rey Maualuga 6.35

B.J. Raji 6.35

If you take Smith off your draft board because of character concerns (which is likely given the Bengals past) and you can't work a trade then you have to ask yourself which player fills a larger need and I feel Maualuga fills the greatest need (afterall, who exactly do we have to play MLB if Jones gets hurt?). Kiper will go ballistic but what is funny is that I am reading all these draft notes when these draft experts are mock-ing Maualuga to 12 or 15 or 19 to the Chargers all of them say, great football player will be a perrenial all-pro, where someone came up with the fact that a Middle Linebacker (Quarterback of a 4-3 defense) is not worth a top ten pick is beyond me, what I do know is that back when Reed and Polamalu were drafted alot of teams missed out on pretty damn good football players because they "weren't worth a top ten pick" because of the position that they played.

[HairOnFire]

It would just be nice to see the Bengals aggressive on draft day, for a change.

Ki-Jana Carter reminds you to be careful what you wish for.

[HairOnFire]

If you take Smith off your draft board because of character concerns (which is likely given the Bengals past) and you can't work a trade then you have to ask yourself which player fills a larger need and I feel Maualuga fills the greatest need (afterall, who exactly do we have to play MLB if Jones gets hurt?).

Fair enough, but under the scenario being painted the Bengals would find themselves drafting from a pool of very comparably ranked prospects whose ranks include Oher, a prospect whose stock has dropped just as badly as Andre Smiths. In short, once you eliminate BPA from your draft strategy everything else is on the table again...including the Michael Ohers, Rey Maualugas, and Beanie Wells of the world.

Kiper will go ballistic......

Unless a prospect like Jason Smith falls to #6, an idea few take seriously, it's increasingly likely the Bengals will either take a player who is considered either is a character risk, a prospect who doesn't play a position of great need, or a prospect who fills a critical need but is considered horrible value at #6. So the negative headlines, regardless of who is picked, will practically write themselves.

[TJJackson]

It would just be nice to see the Bengals aggressive on draft day, for a change.

Ki-Jana Carter reminds you to be careful what you wish for.

....and Klingler

[Wraith]

Hair who would you rather have?

Oher, Maualuga, Wells, Maclin (who is another in that same category), Raji, or Moreno because those are the guys we will be picking from (I have eliminated Jenkins and Stafford because they fill no need whatsoever and Andre Smith because he is too great a character risk for the many times burned Bengals)

[BengalByTheBay]

Hair who would you rather have?

Oher, Maualuga, Wells, Maclin (who is another in that same category), Raji, or Moreno because those are the guys we will be picking from (I have eliminated Jenkins and Stafford because they fill no need whatsoever and Andre Smith because he is too great a character risk for the many times burned Bengals)

So does "character risk" now include guys who are pretty much just kinda lazy? Let me see... now the Bengals can't draft guys who had criminal trouble, substance abuse problems or have man boobs. That list is getting pretty long. What's next, guys who do poorly on the Wonderlick, are bad drivers or have poor taste in movies? How about we just focus on who can play football?

[HairOnFire]

Hair who would you rather have?

Oher, Maualuga, Wells, Maclin (who is another in that same category), Raji, or Moreno because those are the guys we will be picking from (I have eliminated Jenkins and Stafford because they fill no need whatsoever and Andre Smith because he is too great a character risk for the many times burned Bengals)

I've struggled with my short list in this draft more than any I can think of, but from the above group of prospects I'd choose either Raji or Andre Smith. And before you start barking I admit Andre Smith MAY be off the Bengals board, but he stays on my short list until someone offers a valid reason for dumping that isn't based upon the size of his man teats. After all, none of us are dumping on Raji despite the fact he's had a longer history of weight problems than Andre Smith, as well as a history of academic struggles.

As for Maclin, I don't want him anymore than I want Crabtree, who quite frankly I don't want at all.

But there's the rub because IF nobody actually falls to #6 AND numerous BPA's are eliminated simply because of the positions they play, then it seems likely that prospects like Oher, Maualuga, and Wells or Moreno would still be in the mix even though they once seemed to be ridiculous reaches. In fact, of all the names mentioned the player least likely to make Kiper's head explode might be Oher, a selection that would worry me even more than Andre Smith's, but one that I think would be accepted by most talking heads with a shrug.

[Wraith]

I could give a rats furry houshmandzadeh about Andre Smith's "man boobs", I have serious questions about the man's committment to team and to football in general. This has been covered ad nauseum on this board and the draft board but here it goes again since you seem new to this conversation. Andre Smith screwed his college football team by making contact with an agent during their bowl preparations causing them to suspend him from there bowl and thus causing them to lose their bowl game (and yes I feel that that is a direct cause and effect) Strike 1. Flaking out at the Senior Bowl and showing up to the combine un-prepared and looking like he had not done a stitch of work since December Strike 2. Flaking out on the interview process and leaving the combine without so much as saying a word to anyone Strike 3. YER OUT!!!! This guy has shown that he has serious issues following the rules and many have doubted his committment to football, he has said on numerous occasions that he is about the money, what happens when he has that money, will he play hard? Just that question should rule him out of consideration from anyone who lived through Dan Wilkerson.

[HairOnFire]

This has been covered ad nauseum on this board and the draft board but here it goes again since you seem new to this conversation.

Check the draft board again, and focus on the Andre Smith threads in particular. I'm pretty sure my name pops up from time to time.

[Wraith]

Actually I was referencing Bengal by the Bay, sorry should have clarified.

[BengalByTheBay]

I could give a rats furry houshmandzadeh about Andre Smith's "man boobs", I have serious questions about the man's committment to team and to football in general. This has been covered ad nauseum on this board and the draft board but here it goes again since you seem new to this conversation. Andre Smith screwed his college football team by making contact with an agent during their bowl preparations causing them to suspend him from there bowl and thus causing them to lose their bowl game (and yes I feel that that is a direct cause and effect) Strike 1. Flaking out at the Senior Bowl and showing up to the combine un-prepared and looking like he had not done a stitch of work since December Strike 2. Flaking out on the interview process and leaving the combine without so much as saying a word to anyone Strike 3. YER OUT!!!! This guy has shown that he has serious issues following the rules and many have doubted his committment to football, he has said on numerous occasions that he is about the money, what happens when he has that money, will he play hard? Just that question should rule him out of consideration from anyone who lived through Dan Wilkerson.

None of that is anything different than what I pointed out -- he's lazy. Commitment to football ... right, lazy. The contact with an agent thing is likely something just about every top 5 prospect does and doesn't get caught -- he did, so what? Does that put him in the category of Chris Henry and Odell Thurman who had criminal records and substance abuse issues? To you it obviously does because you said the Bengals had to avoid such "character risks" because of being "burned" before. You obviously are referring to Henry and Thurman, right? So where's the common thread there? The "character risks" that "burned" the Bengals before had nothing to do with flaking out on an interview at the combine. So what that he admits he's "about the money" - really so what? Every football player who isn't "about the money" is lying. Most just show better judgment than to say it up front. He clearly doesn't have very good judgment about opening his mouth. That doesn't mean he can't play football. Neither you, nor I, nor anybody else knows whether he will work hard when he gets to the NFL. Being out of shape may be an indication that he won't, but it doesn't make him a "character risk." Otherwise, just about every offensive lineman is a "character risk." Work ethic is completely different than any character risk issues that the Bengals had any trouble with in drafting players. See, I don't have to post 100 times on every thread to know what's going on. And, no, I don't see any prior discussion about whether Andre Smith has been arrested or tagged as a "character risk" for anything other than pissing teams off when he left the combine. To me, while self-defeating, that's analogous to people getting all pissed off because Marvin Lewis consistently disses reporters.

[Wraith]

Bengal By the Bay,

I can site numerous sources listing character red flags when it comes to Andre Smith, do you want them or will you just cede the point? The person I can best link my concerns regarding Mr. Smith to my previous statement regarding Dan Wilkerson and I think these situation mirror themselves. Dan Wilkerson got paid and stopped working until it became apparent that he was going to be out of the league which was well after he left the Bengals organization. The Bengals cannot afford a top ten miss like that and all the evidence shows that this situation is likely based upon his prior actions.

You say he's just "lazy" in my world lazy is a character defect, I don't want lazy employees because they cost me money and I am sure Marvin doesn't want lazy football players for the same reason.

In Short----- LAZY=CHARACTER RISK

[Whur CHad At?]

Bengal By the Bay,

I can site numerous sources listing character red flags when it comes to Andre Smith, do you want them or will you just cede the point? The person I can best link my concerns regarding Mr. Smith to my previous statement regarding Dan Wilkerson and I think these situation mirror themselves. Dan Wilkerson got paid and stopped working until it became apparent that he was going to be out of the league which was well after he left the Bengals organization. The Bengals cannot afford a top ten miss like that and all the evidence shows that this situation is likely based upon his prior actions.

You say he's just "lazy" in my world lazy is a character defect, I don't want lazy employees because they cost me money and I am sure Marvin doesn't want lazy football players for the same reason.

In Short----- LAZY=CHARACTER RISK

I have actually heard he has great character(ask Alabama coaches)

[BengalByTheBay]

Bengal By the Bay,

I can site numerous sources listing character red flags when it comes to Andre Smith, do you want them or will you just cede the point? The person I can best link my concerns regarding Mr. Smith to my previous statement regarding Dan Wilkerson and I think these situation mirror themselves. Dan Wilkerson got paid and stopped working until it became apparent that he was going to be out of the league which was well after he left the Bengals organization. The Bengals cannot afford a top ten miss like that and all the evidence shows that this situation is likely based upon his prior actions.

You say he's just "lazy" in my world lazy is a character defect, I don't want lazy employees because they cost me money and I am sure Marvin doesn't want lazy football players for the same reason.

In Short----- LAZY=CHARACTER RISK

Dan Wilkinson....okay? That was what you were referring to by the "many times burned Bengals"? You gotta admit that's a pretty obtuse reference to one instance involving a draft 15 years ago.

I'll concede your point when you reference a legal run-in or substance abuse issue in his past -- fair?

As to your point about Smith being "all about the money" because he ran his mouth, I would suggest that if he really were just about the money, he probably wouldn't be alienating team representatives at the combine (and let's face it, much of the hullabaloo likely arose from the fact that people were looking for him and didn't know where he was and they felt disrespected for that) and would have been working a lot harder a lot earlier to ensure he would be the top overall pick. Like him or hate him, everyone has to agree that he's left many millions of dollars on the table by not preparing for the combine well. He went from a consensus top 3 pick to ... well, wherever he ends up.

Somewhere between combine work out studs (see Brewer, Sean) and guys who can play football but don't handle their pre-draft business well (ala Smith) you have to simply sort-out what kind of player the guy will be later. It sounds like we may disagree on that. I also disagree that it's a "red flag" because he didn't prepare well for the combine. That's him hurting his own promotional cause, but it doesn't necessarily mean he won't translate into a dominant NFL player just like he was in college. It might, I just don't think it will. I might feel differently if he was a skill player or secondary player, but I don't believe the same conditioning concerns are relevant at an o-line spot. And it's not like he was out stealing cars, dealing drugs or getting into bar fights every weekend.

[HAPPYJAQ]

One thing that has to be understood is that bad character guys are bad character guys...period. It all starts with an individuals player's maturity level and you have to say that Andre has at least exibited a questionable maturity level, at the very least. The things that are "red flags" with Andre are far more severe than Henry being ejected/suspended for a couple of games in college or Odell getting kicked off the team at one point, before earning his way back on at Georgia. Needless to say, when Odell and Henry "got money" is when things turned for the worst for both players and the team in general. It looks like the Bengals have gambled and lost dearly on both Odell and Henry, unless Henry breaks out into the star player that he has the potential to be, in his 5th season.

A first round pick is far more consequential than a 2nd or 3rd round pick and the Bengals simply cannot gamble on the 6th pick overall, regardless of his talent. I was hoping for a major about-face at his Pro Day, but it was argurably another failure in his last attempt to convince the entire league that he is a Top 5 talent.