Forget Andre Smith...

[HairOnFire]

Considering that most are saying this is his 2nd failed performance in a month....

And what would happen if he worked out again tomorrow? Based upon appearances he's doomed to fail again, right? And if you worked him out the following day he'd fail a 4th time, right? And he'd keep failing no matter how many times you test him because he hasn't had enough time to correct the mistake he made earlier.

There are too many holes and questions, and even if you eliminate those, he projects as a an RG/RT type.

I'm fine with him on the right side. It's exactly what this team needs and just so happens to be where I think Smith fits best. But yeah, there are questions now about his work ethic and his so-called love for the game, and Smith has nobody but himself...and his hand-picked agent....to blame.

[HairOnFire]

-5.28 who expected him to run fast...plus oher and monroe only ran 5.23's....

According to an Alabama newspaper article the 5.28 was Smith's best official timing ever. So yeah, you do have to wonder what some people were expecting.

-19 reps okay that's pretty bad but oher had 21 and is gets praised about his athleticism

True, but Oher is in the midst of his own slide. A better example might be Monroe, a prospect who put up comparable reps but is still being considered as a Top 5 prospect despite concerns about his strength and skill as a run blocker.

-looked fat and not best of shape ...Everyone knew this when he was playing college ball but still considered him the best tackle in the draft...

Did anyone catch the nugget about some applause breaking out when Smith's weight of 325 was announced? Call me naive if you must but prior to the Pro Day I assumed that would be what everyone focused on. Well, that and the position drills.

[HairOnFire]

New York Giants offensive line coach Pat Flaherty, who worked with Smith, Antoine Caldwell and Marlon Davis in positional drills, said Smith looked good but still has plenty of room for improvement.

"He looked better. He can still get better, and he will once he stays after his routine and conditioning," Flaherty said. "I was looking for how he moved on the field. I watched him on tape; he's a very good football player. I was anxious to see what type of condition he was in and what he's done since the season ended. We got some answers."

As to how those answers will affect where he's selected in next month's draft, Flaherty couldn't say.

"I guess you'd have to go to the individual clubs to say how he did," Flaherty said. "All he can control right now is going forward. You just have to be ready for each and every club that wants to work you out. It's a job interview so you have to take it seriously and do the best you can. I thought he did that today."

[HairOnFire]

And one more....

News, observations and reader questions about the Oakland Raiders

March 11, 2009

Jason Jones - Sacramento Bee

Potential Raider draft pick has a down day

The reports from the Alabama tackle Andre Smith's Pro Day have been underwhelming.

He only bench-pressed 225 pounds 19 times.

His 40-yard dash times were 5.28 and 5.33 seconds according to NFL.com. He weighed in at 325 pounds and reports had him looking noticeably overweight.

I spoke to a scout prior to Smith's Pro Day and based on that discussion I was told to expect this kind of performance.

"He's not going to be strong, but on the field he's powerful," the scout said.

"And no matter what you do, he's not going to look pretty," the scout added, noting he wasn't going to have the prototype body of a Jake Long.

The scout said the Raiders, however, would be crazy to pass on Smith if were to fall to them in the draft because he's shown on the field that he's a dominant player that is rarely knocked off his feet.

"He'd struggle early but he could be their starting right tackle as a rookie," my anonymous scout said.

The Raiders still haven't fully addressed their needs at tackle. Perhaps the team will sign Orlando Pace or make a stronger play for Marvel Smith.

If that hasn't happened by late April, Smith could be there for the taking.

[UF_Gators_15]

Nuff said, he's 325 pounds who can only bench 225 19 times, somebody that fat cannot be that weak.

[WhoDey93285]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_...?urn=nfl,147436

We haven't lived in the Kiper era of endless NFL draft information for very long, but in that time, I can't recall anyone's draft stock falling quite like Andre Smith's. Picture Wilford Brimley's frail and helpless body tumbling end-over-end off a cliff, picking up speed as it goes (Note: Do not picture this if you are Wilford Brimley, or someone who knows him). That's about what we're looking at here.

He (Smith, not Brimley) was once considered a possible number one overall pick, and now, he might not even be a second-day pick. If Andre Smith was the stock market, he'd be ... well, he'd be a lot like the stock market is right now.

It all started at the combine, when Smith basically did everything the exact opposite of how it should have been done, and then left in the middle of it without telling anyone where he was going. But it was thought that Smith would have a chance to redeem himself, at least partially, at his Pro Day earlier this afternoon.

So how'd that go for him? Here's a snippet from TFYDraft.com:

The situation has gone from bad to worse for Andre Smith. His bench press results were a pitiful 19-reps. His position work was also very mediocre. One scout has told us is it the "worst workout he ever saw" and a number of scouts are cranky that they made the long trip to Alabama to watch the pitiful workout. A second scout has told us "Smith lost millions of dollars".

And from NFL.com:

To put Smith’s workout in perspective, he did not post a single number that would have placed him in the top performers at his position at the combine and many of his numbers were not even close to the top 10 at his position at the combine.

And PFT quotes a league source as saying that Smith "bombed."

The way things are going, teams will be drafting equipment managers before they draft Andre Smith. Most decent stadium hot dog vendors are more highly sought-after. Dan Leone will be drafted before Andre Smith.

It hurts to even think about this guy. Put yourself in his shoes. A month ago, he was on track to become a household name, had won just about every major award for which he was eligible, and was set to become one of the wealthiest people on the planet ... and now he's a guy without a college degree (he left Alabama after his junior season) who might not even have a future in the game.

I feel like giving him a hug, but I'm afraid I'd knock him down and scouts would send him even farther down scouts' lists.

Come on, Andre. Get it together, baby. Nothing's over, nothing's decided. You can still be the stud you were intended to be.

[Kazkal]

double

[Kazkal]

OTHER OPINIONS EMERGE ABOUT ANDRE SMITH WORKOUT

Posted by Mike Florio on March 12, 2009, 8:32 a.m. EDT

On Wednesday, while Aaron Wilson was minding the PFT store (among other things, he refused to sell a calzone to a hipster doofis who wanted to pay for it in pennies), we posted a couple of stories regarding the horrendous workout of Alabama tackle Andre Smith.

Smith also had a nightmarish Scouting Combine, with reportedly horrible interviews followed by an unexpected no-show for his Saturday workout.

But some contrary voices are emerging regarding Smith’s supposedly poor Pro Day showing — which included a 40-yard dash in the 5.2-second range.

And, as is usually the case this time of year, it’s virtually impossible to separate the bull’s-eye from the bullsh-t.

Said one veteran scout, “I just looked up the Combine 40 [times] for [tackles] and Smith ran equal to or faster than most. Yup, he had a poor workout. An out-of-shape fat guy ran better than most of the guy who were supposed to be in shape.”

It could be that Smith’s biggest mistake on Wednesday was to shed the modesity and run without a shirt. (CBS42 has the video. And, yes, there is considerable jiggling.)

“They say he was fat and the flab was all over the place,” the source said. “What the f–k did they expect? A body builder’s physique? Smith is a fat guy. He has always been a fat guy. That’s his genetics. It’s never going to change.

“When he was dominating the SEC last fall he was a 340-pound fat guy, and everybody said he was a top three [draft pick] and maybe the top guy. He is too good a player who got some poor advice and it has hurt him a little. But it hasn’t hurt him a lot.

“Here’s the fact — the a-holes making the comments are scouts who are not decision-makers, or they are people who want the kid to fall to them. Mark it down — he still goes high.”

Said another source, “While the [smith] workout wasn’t one for the ages, it also wasn’t that bad, either. I would say if a team liked him yesterday they still like him today.”

And that’s where this pre-draft process gets incredibly screwed up. The teams that like a player will say bad things about him privately, in the hopes that he’s still on the board when they pick. The teams that don’t like the player will talk him up, so that someone in front of that team will take him, pushing farther down the board one or more of the players that the team truly covets.

So, basically, it’s hard to know what to believe, and the job of the media in all of this is to at least try to discern the potential biases and prejudices of the folks who are saying the good or bad things.

That said, the scout from whom we heard works for a team that, based on their current roster, probably would draft Smith in round one, if he’s still on the board. So it looks like we can believe him.

The guy can play football that's what people care about....What did people really expect from a frea

[HairOnFire]

I'm not sure who I hate more, PFT or the whole freaking blogosphere.

I say this after reading 57 googled articles about Andre Smith early yesterday. Only one turned out to be an original article written by someone who actually attended Smith's Pro Day. (Chicago Sun Times)

Of the remaining 56 articles roughly 70% quoted PFT's unqualified blatherings while the remaining 30% or so made due by recycling Gil Brandt's NFL.com nuggets. To be perfectly fair, several did try to do the reader a favor by providing links and tired quotes from both, but there wasn't an original thought in the whole bunch.

Then again, how could there be? Most of the bloggers never leave their basements, right?

[Kazkal]

True take it as what you will but thing like highlighted points people are acting shocked about andres shape/numbers when everyone knew the guy was fat but if he can play gameday so be it...or you could have a Stacey Andrew who was a supposed have freakish athleticism totally suck on the field...

[HAPPYJAQ]

I'm admittedly warming to the idea of taking Smith, but not much. In all fairness, I can remember that after Chad scorched every DB at the Senior Bowl he was projected as a Top 5-10 pick. He then went to Indianapolis and not only ran a much slower than expected at the Combine (4.6 range, I believe), but turned more than a few teams off with his "attitude" in interviews and ended up falling to us in the second round. Maybe they were right about his attitude, but he is argurably the greatest Bengals receiver ever.

If Smith can convince the team he can be a Top 5 RT in time, I'd be OK with the pick. I'd be more than OK if the team thinks he's a LT, but he doens't appear to be a fit on the left side in our division.

Something just tells me that if Monroe of Jason Smith don't fall, the pick is going to be an Offensive player (if Orakpo is gone). I could see the talk being Maclin this time next month. I have to admit, he just LOOKS like a Bengal-type player and he's electrifying in the return game, which is an area they obviously want to address. I'd much rather have him than Crab.

[COB]

but if he can play gameday so be it...or you could have a Stacey Andrew who was a supposed have freakish athleticism totally suck on the field...

You know who would have been incredible at the combine? The same scouts carpet bombing Smith would have been tagging him as a can't miss, 10 year starter? So athletic, and look at that physique! Now that's a player.

Ahmad Brooks.

[HAPPYJAQ]

but if he can play gameday so be it...or you could have a Stacey Andrew who was a supposed have freakish athleticism totally suck on the field...

You know who would have been incredible at the combine? The same scouts carpet bombing Smith would have been tagging him as a can't miss, 10 year starter? So athletic, and look at that physique! Now that's a player.

Ahmad Brooks.

You mean, Ahmad "I would've been a 1st round pick, if football was actually important to me" Brooks?

No more MLB's picked early in the draft, please.

Bennie Brazzell and Sean Brewer would've wowed those same scouts, too.

[TJJackson]

No more MLB's picked early in the draft, please.

Yeah, it sure would have sucked having Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis on the Bengals. Just awful.

[HAPPYJAQ]

No more MLB's picked early in the draft, please.

Yeah, it sure would have sucked having Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis on the Bengals. Just awful.

For every Ray Lewis drafted, there are ten Andy Katzenmoyers or Bobby Carpenters.

[TJJackson]

No more MLB's picked early in the draft, please.

Yeah, it sure would have sucked having Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis on the Bengals. Just awful.

For every Ray Lewis drafted, there are ten Andy Katzenmoyers or Bobby Carpenters.

so what you REALLY meant to say was "let's improve our evaluation of MLBs" instead of "let's not ever draft an MLB"......

got it

God knows there are never ever never ever busts at any other position other than MLB. Never ever.

[HAPPYJAQ]

No more MLB's picked early in the draft, please.

Yeah, it sure would have sucked having Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis on the Bengals. Just awful.

For every Ray Lewis drafted, there are ten Andy Katzenmoyers or Bobby Carpenters.

so what you REALLY meant to say was "let's improve our evaluation of MLBs" instead of "let's not ever draft an MLB"......

got it

God knows there are never ever never ever busts at any other position other than MLB. Never ever.

I understand that this may be a little much for you to comprehend, so I'll simplify/dumb down my original comment for you.

NFL teams can draft very productive MLB's in the middle rounds of the draft and MLB's typically are "boom or bust" selections early, IMO. We've witnessed two examples of this in the last 5 seasons. I posted a few weeks ago about how few MLB's have been drafted high in the last 18 years and there is a valid reason for that. Related to this draft, I think guys like Beckwith, Ellerbe, McKillop, Brinkley or Arnouz are players who could upgrade the Bengals at MLB without sacrificing a very valuable 1st or 2nd round pick.

[TJJackson]

Your point is easy enough to understand. I just don't happen to agree with it.

First....chart the other positions. You'll find a high percentage of busts in every position

Second...if a draft selector believes (drafting is all about belief, backed up by as much fact as possible, but ultimately it's all about belief) player X will make the biggest positive impact on his team's success, he selects that player. He doesn't then say "oh wait, he's a MLB, we cant draft MLBs this high, give me lesser player Y instead" If you truly believe Rey (for example, and I do not mean that *I* believe he is, this is just an example) is the second coming of Patrick Willis, why the hell wouldn't you draft him at 6?

[Kazkal]

NFL teams can draft very productive MLB's in the middle rounds of the draft and MLB's typically are "boom or bust"

First Round & 2nd MLB's in the nfl right now

-Patrick WIllis

-Ray Lewis

-Brian Urlacher

-Jerod Mayo

-Jonathan Vilma

-Jon Benson

-Lofa Tatupu

-Keith Bulluck

-James Farrior

-Napoleon Harris

-D'Qwell Jackson

-DeMeco Ryan

Sure list goes on but I'm guessing you get the point teams put high value on MLB's and most of the better ones come from higher rounds not lower.....sure you find serviceable ones in the later rounds but if you want a "Force" in the middle of your defense you better look early.....

[HairOnFire]

I'm admittedly warming to the idea of taking Smith, but not much.

You're warming to the idea NOW?

I might be the only one who still cares but it sure seems like the guy just slid right past us...into the waiting arms of some team drafting in the teens or twentys.

[HairOnFire]

From the San Francisco Chronicle....

Forget the combine, scouts like Smith

John Crumpacker, Chronicle Staff Writer

Friday, March 13, 2009

(03-12) 18:38 PDT -- Although Alabama tackle Andre Smith was definitely getting "jiggly" with it when he ran his 40-yard dash shirtless in his pro day workout, the 49ers nevertheless came away with a positive opinion about this potential draft pick on April 25.

The word from San Francisco's scouting department on the 325-pound Smith? "Impressed."

That's not easy to do for someone who showed up at the NFL combine last month out of shape and announced he would not be working out, and then left Indianapolis the next day without informing anyone.

For his pro day in Tuscaloosa on Wednesday, he unwisely chose to run his 40 shirtless, causing a sort of "torso tsunami" with his shapeless build. He's the opposite of the "ripped" athletic specimen.

All that means little in helmet and pads, however, and Smith is still regarded as a first-round talent, although surely the third tackle now behind Baylor's Justin Smith and Virginia's Eugene Monroe. Smith is known to have a nasty disposition on the field, which might endear him to coach Mike Singletary nearly as much as his apparent devout Christian faith.

The 49ers, drafting 10th on April 25th, might see his name still available on the draft board. They need a right tackle as the team looks to upgrade a position manned by Jonas Jennings, Adam Snyder and Barry Sims the last two seasons. Smith was named the Outland Trophy winner for 2008, emblematic of college football's best lineman.

[HAPPYJAQ]

I'm admittedly warming to the idea of taking Smith, but not much.

You're warming to the idea NOW?

I might be the only one who still cares but it sure seems like the guy just slid right past us...into the waiting arms of some team drafting in the teens or twentys.

I'll give you this, there are plenty of "experts" still very high on Smith, despite all his flaws. I've heard it mentioned numerous times that he won't get past San Francisco at #10 but I've also read where some "experts" say he's a 3rd round prospect, at best.

I believe this is going to be the year we trade down, possibly out of the Top 20. All we need is for one team fall in love with Crabtree, Maclin or Sanchez. I'd be all for taking Smith at that point and would consider him to be a steal there.

[Kazkal]

Cool with me bring on Maualuga !!!!!!!

[Whur CHad At?]

I would love Maualuga

[ArmyBengal]

After his workouts, I really thought he would be out of consideration at #6, but the more this goes on, the thought of him being a top 10 pick are still very real. I will be honest and say I'm not quite as comfortable as I was prior to his workout, but I'm still not ready to say that I would be really pissed off if he were the pick.