Do you have faith in Carson ??

[ArmyBengal]

I want to keep this thread about Carson, so try to respond with that thought in mind please...

Do you think Carson has the ability to lead this offense without Chad and TJ to throw to ??

The thing I keep bringing up is that you have people agreeing with a 20 year old blogger that thinks Carson is better than Tom Brady. I contend that Carson isn't better than Big Ben at this point in time. However, I do have faith in the fact that if Carson has OTA's, minicamps, camp, and preseason games to develop the youngsters, he will be successful in the passing game to a degree that will be more than satisfying for the fans of this team.

I think people are forgetting that TJ was a 7th round pick who flourished in this system with a top end QB and #1 WR in Chad. Those two haven't been in camps and when they came, they were more of a distraction than anything else. Hell, there was more news about Chad doing absolutely nothing when he reported last year than anything else. This team doesn't need that.

This team needs to continue the focus on building the lines, running game, and defense. All of those things will assist Carson be more successful in the passing game then holding onto two WR's whose time has come and gone when the team is obviously rebuilding. No I don't believe the team is one player away.

So, what's the verdict ?? Faith or no faith in Carson's ability ??

I say bring on the youngsters and lets see what happens. We can win 4 games with or without those two. (ESPN take there)

[BengalszoneBilly]

I want to keep this thread about Carson, so try to respond with that thought in mind please...

Do you think Carson has the ability to lead this offense without Chad and TJ to throw to ??

The thing I keep bringing up is that you have people agreeing with a 20 year old blogger that thinks Carson is better than Tom Brady. I contend that Carson isn't better than Big Ben at this point in time. However, I do have faith in the fact that if Carson has OTA's, minicamps, camp, and preseason games to develop the youngsters, he will be successful in the passing game to a degree that will be more than satisfying for the fans of this team.

I think people are forgetting that TJ was a 7th round pick who flourished in this system with a top end QB and #1 WR in Chad. Those two haven't been in camps and when they came, they were more of a distraction than anything else. Hell, there was more news about Chad doing absolutely nothing when he reported last year than anything else. This team doesn't need that.

This team needs to continue the focus on building the lines, running game, and defense. All of those things will assist Carson be more successful in the passing game then holding onto two WR's whose time has come and gone when the team is obviously rebuilding. No I don't believe the team is one player away.

So, what's the verdict ?? Faith or no faith in Carson's ability ??

I say bring on the youngsters and lets see what happens. We can win 4 games with or without those two. (ESPN take there)

Without an offensive line to protect him, without a running game to take the pressure off, this is a definite no for me. Palmer has not demonstrated an ability to to me to make chicken soup out of chicken s**t.

[Baraka]

i have faith in carson if:

-the o-line can keep him off his back

-we can get any semblance of a rushing attack

-chad returns to form or we can get production from simpson and henry

i've said it before, carson can make average receivers good and good receivers great, and i think henry, simpson and caldwell can all be good, add chad in the mix (chad johnson, not ocho psycho) and we can have a top ten passing attack again.

that's a lot of "if's" but this is the ultimate team game and not even the greatest QB's of all time can do it by themselves.

[Kazkal]

Besides Big Ben being so hard to sack why is he a better QB? Just wondering...

I have Faith in Carson if he has the tools around him(more then WR's)...Keep Improving the Defense,Run the ball more often and I think Carson will do just fine...

[walzav29]

I want to puke for saying this but Bens escapabilty is what makes him better. His line was awful last year. I beleive he was the most sacked QB, and I know he had at least 1 concussion, but he hung in there and got the receivers the ball. I still say Palmer is the better thrower. It's just the other things that he can do. It's like Marino and Elway. Elway could beat you a hundred ways, and Marino could only do it throwing. Having a receiver like Hines Ward makes a big difference.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I want to puke for saying this but Bens escapabilty is what makes him better. His line was awful last year.

Some QBs are just better suited for different types of offeneses (including bad ones). The analogy I'd make is comparing a Ferrari to a beat-up old Jeep. Now, in any reasonable conditions, in a race, I'll take the Ferrari. But if the course is rocky and rutted, you just won't be able to drive the Ferrari at all. But that doesn't mean the Ferrari isn't a good car.

Same thing here. If Carson has absolutely no help, there's not much he can do. He doesn't make plays with his feet. But at the same time, almost all the HoF QBs would have looked like crap for the Bengals last year, including (for instance) Joe Montana.

As far as Toothlessburger...I think the problem was more the fact that he holds the ball forever than his line. I'd hate to block for that guy.

[mgilgris]

I love Carson and think he is a good QB but not an elite one and not in the same class as Big Ben or Brady.

[cincy9275]

carson has everything you want in a qb, the real problem is the people that manage this team. i have no faith what so ever that mikey boy and company will do what is needed to make sure he is successful.

[BengalByTheBay]

I want to keep this thread about Carson, so try to respond with that thought in mind please...

Do you think Carson has the ability to lead this offense without Chad and TJ to throw to ??

Yeah, but the running game needs to be more stable/productive to get him back close to 2005 form.

[Pidge]

Yes. Give him an O-line worthy of the name and some help with a decent (or maybe we go nuts and become good) running game and Carson could throw the ball to one armed midgets with success.

Carson has shown he can win games, even without a D when given some support on offense. Just think what we might do if we re-sign Benson, fix the O-line up and the D shows further improvement.

I'm not suggesting threepeating SBs or anything but I'd fancy our chances to get to the post season and be looking to cause some damage. He can't do it alone though. He has shown he has the ability - he has a disgusting amount of ability, and the gumption to use that ability in big games. He might not be a rah rah leader kind of guy but he has the physical and mental attributes to win SBs. Let's hope the franchise don't piss about any longer and squander those talents for even one more season or they'll just be years of missed opportunities to be ticked off.

[Bearcat1975]

As of now, we have zero proof and zero results that Carson can even return to his pre injury 2006-2007 form, much less his pre-pre-injury 2005 form.

After a while things can take their toll.

He had to change the way he plants his right leg after the injury. Now the arm problem. Carson just seems so far removed from what got him drafted at #1 at this point.

Maybe he can come back and be successful. Odds are against it...who knows.

But do I have "faith" that he will?

Not really. My "willing suspension of disbelief" will be in full force this season.

[HoTbOy]

If CPalmer and BRothlisberger switched teams, would CPalmer get the Steelers to the SB?, I say this because the Steelers O-line was worst than ours, BRothlisberger was the most sacked QB this past season, but his escapability got him to extend plays,while I think that CPalmer is the better pure passer, Big Ben has other entangibles that a QB should have that CPalmer doesn't which is he can shake off LB's CB's and S and still make a play...If we can get our D to perform a little better this year and run the ball better then I have the faith that he can get us where we want to go, but if we have to rely on his arm then I would have to say no, because we have not won anything with that formula and without TJ and maybe CJohnson and just a couple of 2nd year WR's and CHenry I wouldn't expect anything to change unless the D became #1 in the league this year...

[Pidge]

If CPalmer and BRothlisberger switched teams, would CPalmer get the Steelers to the SB?, I say this because the Steelers O-line was worst than ours, BRothlisberger was the most sacked QB this past season, but his escapability got him to extend plays,while I think that CPalmer is the better pure passer, Big Ben has other entangibles that a QB should have that CPalmer doesn't which is he can shake off LB's CB's and S and still make a play...If we can get our D to perform a little better this year and run the ball better then I have the faith that he can get us where we want to go, but if we have to rely on his arm then I would have to say no, because we have not won anything with that formula and without TJ and maybe CJohnson and just a couple of 2nd year WR's and CHenry I wouldn't expect anything to change unless the D became #1 in the league this year...

As you say though, they aren't the same kind of QB. BR can not only scramble, but he does it brilliantly. Better than any other QB in the league at this point. Carson is a pure pocket passer, maybe the best in the league in terms of ability although that is highly debatable with PM and TB currently earning a wage in the league. This has always been the case from day one that he was drafted. Bit of a head scratcher that the O-line has been left to wither an die then. Some might say short sighted and others might say absolutely f**king insane and amateurish. I'll say this though - all well and good saying Carson doesn't win the SBs with Pitt - maybe right, maybe not. I'm inclined to agree but with their D you never know. One thing is for sure, with our team of the last couple of seasons, BR wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs these last two seasons with the Bengals , nevermind winning the SB.

I completely disagree with you about we can't rely on his arm. We can and have done in the past and the offense was just stupidly good. The D was non-existent though. Utterly and completely. Culminating in the Chargers game a couple of seasons back.

As it stands though, our D is still a work in progress, our O-line is back to square one basically. Solid to good guards, one promising tackle and utter dross or injured/s**t everywhere else, starting wise and depth wise. Need help. 5 or 6 new guys who are all good/servicable for starters and depth on the O-line alone. Once that is addressed we need to have a RB capable of using that improved O-line to help take the pressure off Carson and manage the clock/wear down the opposing D.

Frankly, the only two things I feel really good about on the Bengals team right now are Carson and the young secondary. He is the least of our problems and on about 28 other teams in the league, he'd be the prized asset.

[ArmyBengal]

Ok, I think others have expressed my opinions for me in regards to Rottenfurburger, but I will add once again that I said, "At this time". I say that because I to believe if the Bengals can get Carson the protection he needs and a running game that enables him to NOT have to throw the ball every down to make something happen, then he will be great. I agree that Carson is probably the better pure thrower, but that's only a portion of the big picture.

Anyway, the thought again is that we rebuild the line either through FA or the draft, get a running game together, and go with what we have and will get in the draft, if trades are made. I honestly could envision (not saying it's happening) a trade of Chad and getting another top end WR in the draft. Hell there are many that are saying that is going to happen if we get rid of Chad or not, so why not make the moves NOW and start moving in the direction we all know it's going to end up in within the next couple of years anyway ?? What kind of market do you think there is going to be for Chad when he's two years older ??

[HairOnFire]

Do you think Carson has the ability to lead this offense without Chad and TJ to throw to ??

Lead the offense where? Palmer's ability is mostly unquestioned if allowed to operate in a system that suits his playing skills AND his personality....so there's little question Palmer can lead a new offense to respectability even if surrounded by less talented WR's provided the replacements are adequately prepared to play. Right now it's impossible to argue that's true, but the fault isn't Palmer's, is it?

The thing I keep bringing up is that you have people agreeing with a 20 year old blogger that thinks Carson is better than Tom Brady. I contend that Carson isn't better than Big Ben at this point in time.

Carson Palmer is potentially better than nearly every QB you could name, but he very clearly hasn't been able to play at the highest level capable due to the failures surrounding him. That said, Tom Brady is far superior to Palmer and Big Ben is far more accomplished....so those players have nothing to prove. Conversely, all Palmer has proven is that he can perform his job at a very high level. He hasn't proven himself to be a great player, he hasn't won a championship, and due to injuries his career may or may not be at a crossroads. He has much to prove.

However, I do have faith in the fact that if Carson has OTA's, minicamps, camp, and preseason games to develop the youngsters, he will be successful in the passing game to a degree that will be more than satisfying for the fans of this team.

There it is again. Put Carson in a normal environment and he'll succeed....end of story. But he's not in a normal environment, is he? Instead, he's trying to keep his dignity while standing in the center ring of a 3-ring Circus. Worse, he's the guy who might be most responsible for keeping happy a player who actually changed his name to a number.

Hell, there was more news about Chad doing absolutely nothing when he reported last year than anything else. This team doesn't need that.

No, it doesn't. But wanting Chad gone is an entirely different matter than him actually being gone.

[JoePong]

I have faith in Carson Palmer just like I have faith in Chris Perry. So far, since he came to the NFL, he's had one entire season where he didn't play at all, and 3 other years he had season ending injuries. That's 4 years down the drain and he's not even been in the NFL that long. Pretty soon he will be past his prime and we will be looking for a new QB and wondering what might have been...

Add to that the fact that he missed an entire year in college with a separated shoulder, you just can't rely on the guy. He's looking like the next Greg Cook. Flashes of briliance, but a wasted career due to injury.

[HairOnFire]

Am I the only one who thinks a Joe Pong double-post is a tragic sorta thing?

[ArmyBengal]

Do you think Carson has the ability to lead this offense without Chad and TJ to throw to ??

Lead the offense where? Palmer's ability is mostly unquestioned if allowed to operate in a system that suits his playing skills AND his personality....so there's little question Palmer can lead a new offense to respectability even if surrounded by less talented WR's provided the replacements are adequately prepared to play. Right now it's impossible to argue that's true, but the fault isn't Palmer's, is it?

The thing I keep bringing up is that you have people agreeing with a 20 year old blogger that thinks Carson is better than Tom Brady. I contend that Carson isn't better than Big Ben at this point in time.

Carson Palmer is potentially better than nearly every QB you could name, but he very clearly hasn't been able to play at the highest level capable due to the failures surrounding him. That said, Tom Brady is far superior to Palmer and Big Ben is far more accomplished....so those players have nothing to prove. Conversely, all Palmer has proven is that he can perform his job at a very high level. He hasn't proven himself to be a great player, he hasn't won a championship, and due to injuries his career may or may not be at a crossroads. He has much to prove.

However, I do have faith in the fact that if Carson has OTA's, minicamps, camp, and preseason games to develop the youngsters, he will be successful in the passing game to a degree that will be more than satisfying for the fans of this team.

There it is again. Put Carson in a normal environment and he'll succeed....end of story. But he's not in a normal environment, is he? Instead, he's trying to keep his dignity while standing in the center ring of a 3-ring Circus. Worse, he's the guy who might be most responsible for keeping happy a player who actually changed his name to a number.

Hell, there was more news about Chad doing absolutely nothing when he reported last year than anything else. This team doesn't need that.

No, it doesn't. But wanting Chad gone is an entirely different matter than him actually being gone.

Well, it's a general question, but I suppose lead the offense to wins. Sure Carson is "potentially" better than most. Wasn't Mathias Askew "potentially" better than almost any DT coming out of the draft that year ?? I think we are online with everything else there and agree that wanting Chad gone and him being somewhere else are VERY different. I wish it wasn't that way, but I fully expect Chad in stripes this coming season.

[HAPPYJAQ]

Carson Palmer is still an Elite NFL QB, and he's not even 30 years old yet. I would be willing to bet that at least 27 other teams would trade their starting QB for a healthy Carson Palmer, straight up. From a skills and attributes standpoint, Carson is a better football player than either QB that played in this year's Super Bowl, IMO. Every quaterback outside of Peyton Manning and Brett Favre suffer through injuries. Sometimes, those injuries are season-ending (ask Tom Brady, Donovan McNabb, Drew Brees, Dante Culpepper and others)

To answer the question, I have faith in Carson as he is a proven winner, leader and competitor. There's a question about how strong of an arm he'll have now, but I think he is intelligent and accurate enough to still be a major force on offense.

The real question is, can the Bengals protect him?

[ArmyBengal]

The real question is, can the Bengals protect him?

That use to be a priority. Then Braham retired and didn't bother to find a quality center. Then they thought it was a good idea to let Steinbach go to give Big Willie the big dollar deal. Then they thought it was a good idea to let Big Willie go while franchising Andrews. Then players start going down and the next thing you know there are street free agents no one has heard of getting the start.

I think they need to rethink their thinking and get to the business of protecting Carson...

[gregstephens]

Short answer, and this answer has nothing to do with injuries, o-lines, or the nut-case twins. I don't have full faith in Carson. Here's why. I can think of four or five games from 2005 forward where Carson was put in a two-minute drill, need to score to win type of situation, where he didn't deliver, usually giving the ball up on a careless interception. That, to me, is what seperates Brady, Manning, even Big Ben. The elite takes situations where the team falls behind late in the game, marches the team to where they need to be, and sets the team up for a score. Can anyone on this board think of one specific game where Palmer has done that?

[Passepartout]

Everybody has a bad year. And Carson had it in, 2008.

Really I think he will, become a better player and person, due to this!

[Pidge]

Can anyone on this board think of one specific game where Palmer has done that?

The Broncos game when St. f**kface couldn't do the one single thing he's paid a stupid amount on money to do properly. But I guess that Carson's fault maybe - for not being enough of a leader.

Put Brady on this team back in 2001 - he does sweet FA in his career. Good players are good players (and Brady is one of the best ever) but they only ever see success when they're in the right environment.

[membengal]

To answer the question, if they give him protection, this team has zero worries at the qb spot. If they protect like last year, not even a hoss like Roeth would be standing by week 6.

[Thurmanation]

I want to puke for saying this but Bens escapabilty is what makes him better. His line was awful last year.

Some QBs are just better suited for different types of offeneses (including bad ones). The analogy I'd make is comparing a Ferrari to a beat-up old Jeep. Now, in any reasonable conditions, in a race, I'll take the Ferrari. But if the course is rocky and rutted, you just won't be able to drive the Ferrari at all. But that doesn't mean the Ferrari isn't a good car.

Same thing here. If Carson has absolutely no help, there's not much he can do. He doesn't make plays with his feet. But at the same time, almost all the HoF QBs would have looked like crap for the Bengals last year, including (for instance) Joe Montana.

As far as Toothlessburger...I think the problem was more the fact that he holds the ball forever than his line. I'd hate to block for that guy.

exactly. Big Ben wouldn't be as good on a team with a terrible defence. He buys time, sometimes holds the ball for too long but somehow manages to make a play half the time, and he has his defence/running game to rest on the other half the time.