Marvin's analysis of last years draft

[icehole3]

from Bengals.co

Lewis not kid-ding

By GEOFF HOBSON

January 28, 2009

7 p.m.

During Wednesday's session with beat reporters, Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis gave a review of the 2008 draft class and concluded that it gave the club more than he thought it would.

He thinks left tackle Anthony Collins can be a great pro, safety Corey Lynch is going to play "lights out," and defensive tackle Pat Sims "can be as good a player as he thinks he can.":

First-rounder Keith Rivers started the first seven games with 50 tackles at the Will linebacker before Steelers receiver Hines Ward ended his season with a block that broke his jaw. Second-rounder Jerome Simpson made one catch as a rookie wide receiver plagued by foot and ankle injuries and played in just six games. He also didn't play in the finale even though starting receivers Chad Ocho Cinco and T.J. Houshmandzadeh didn't play, either.

"With Keith getting injured, you don't get the full effect of things," Lewis said. "With Jerome hurt, we're down two thereUnfortunately when ever Jerome was getting ready to be a part of things, he got hurt He's a key person for us. When you put a second-round draft pick on a player, you expect that player to contribute at some point in his rookie year and be a major contributor in his second season."

The first of their third-round picks, defensive tackle Pat Sims, didn't make his debut until the sixth game but he started six of the last seven and was a reason the Bengals held foes to less than four yards per carry during the last half of the season.

"We got more out of Pat Sims than I think we knew we could get. I thought he would be coming into his own this year," Lewis said. "He played through some injuries, he showed some toughness. He had to deal with some family issues and I think he came out of this year understanding what pro football is about, and he kind of got a taste he can be lot better player. I think he can be as good a player as he thinks he can and sometimes guys don't understand that."

Wide receiver Andre Caldwell really opened up some eyes at the end of the season with his versatility in running, catching and blocking while starting four of the last five games. He even returned a kick for 43 yards.

"We got what we expected and maybe more. As I looked at the receiver prospects," Lewis said, "if I could have identified a guy, 'Boy this guy is ready to play NFL football,' it was Andre Caldwell and watching his tape from Florida and we got that out of him."

Collins, the fourth-round tackle, got shoved into the real world when the left tackles in front of him, Levi Jones and Andrew Whitworth, went down in the Nov. 16 tie against the Eagles and he had to start the last six games. The first two, naturally, came against the NFL's top two defenses, and Lewis said he "obviously exceeded expectations."

"As a kid (he) was way better than advertised," Lewis said. "He's got a chance to be a great pro and one of those tough guys you can build around for a long time."

Fifth-rounder Jason Shirley, the monstrous 340-pound defensive tackle, got more ink for his legal problems back in Frenso, Calif., than he did for anything he did on the field. His DUI was resolved late in a season he played in just three games and Lewis says his problems are behind him. Shirley had a knock in college for lacking intensity, but Lewis likes how he's responded to the tough love of defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer and line coach Jay Hayes.

"Not as much as maybe we had hoped to get, but I think now (he) understands what NFL football isThe light is on. Because he wants to be good. Mike Zimmer and Jay climbed up his butt (every practice), so he understands what's ahead for him. He has to have a great offseason. You know what? Maybe we hit a home-run there. That would be big."

The two sixth-rounders, Lynch and tight end Matt Sherry, got hurt but Lynch flashed before missing the last eight games with a knee injury on an interception from scrimmage and five special teams tackles.

"I liked the things Corey was doing before he got hurt," Lewis said. "Being a guy that understands football and has the feel for the game like Corey Lynch, I think next year he'll play lights out and really compete hard at being a starting player and we'll be able to give him some roles."

Sherry underwent season-ending shoulder surgery during training camp, but they saw enough to keep him around on rehab.

"I think he's going to grow and develop into a bigger man and might be that kind of multi-talented tight end than can receive the ball and be more of a threat in the passing game that we kind of keep looking for," Lewis said. "He has a chance to be like some of these guys that are playing and doing a good job in the passing game and be a threat. A guy that can separate and win on third down, yet gives you the blocking and things you need out of the tight end position based on some of the (pass) protections and things we do if we're going to continue to work with three wide receivers being the primary focus of things."

Wide receiver Mario Urrutia is the one seventh-rounder who stuck around (defensive end Angelo Craig was cut after camp and ended up in New England at the end of the season), but never got off the practice squad. Lewis likes his 6-5 height, but not the excess of 230 pounds.

"He got better as the season went on," Lewis said. "He was inconsistent with his hands coming in and by the end of the year I think he caught the ball very well. His focus is to keep his weight down."

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=7481

I think this changes my view a little about who they have on their board, I think their board (needs) maybe

1. pass rusher

2. OL

3. RB

4. OL

5. pass rusher

[Kazkal]

Even though they're just little tidbits each time I see one makes me think draft Oline ess and less,Which I don't think is as horrible as people make it out to be...Let Collins and Levi compete for starting on the left Right they plan to move him to the right and take the best guard available or look in rnds 2-4 for a RT....We Drafted collins for a reason had he stayed in school most thought he would have went alot higher this year..

But if Andre Smith falls in out laps I think you still have to think about it though I'd prefer Curry,Reyrey,Opakdo or even Reji and then take someone like Fenuki Tupou later.

[Clackwoods]

from Bengals.co

Lewis not kid-ding

By GEOFF HOBSON

January 28, 2009

7 p.m.

During Wednesday's session with beat reporters, Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis gave a review of the 2008 draft class and concluded that it gave the club more than he thought it would.

He thinks left tackle Anthony Collins can be a great pro, safety Corey Lynch is going to play "lights out," and defensive tackle Pat Sims "can be as good a player as he thinks he can.":

First-rounder Keith Rivers started the first seven games with 50 tackles at the Will linebacker before Steelers receiver Hines Ward ended his season with a block that broke his jaw. Second-rounder Jerome Simpson made one catch as a rookie wide receiver plagued by foot and ankle injuries and played in just six games. He also didn't play in the finale even though starting receivers Chad Ocho Cinco and T.J. Houshmandzadeh didn't play, either.

"With Keith getting injured, you don't get the full effect of things," Lewis said. "With Jerome hurt, we're down two thereUnfortunately when ever Jerome was getting ready to be a part of things, he got hurt He's a key person for us. When you put a second-round draft pick on a player, you expect that player to contribute at some point in his rookie year and be a major contributor in his second season."

The first of their third-round picks, defensive tackle Pat Sims, didn't make his debut until the sixth game but he started six of the last seven and was a reason the Bengals held foes to less than four yards per carry during the last half of the season.

"We got more out of Pat Sims than I think we knew we could get. I thought he would be coming into his own this year," Lewis said. "He played through some injuries, he showed some toughness. He had to deal with some family issues and I think he came out of this year understanding what pro football is about, and he kind of got a taste he can be lot better player. I think he can be as good a player as he thinks he can and sometimes guys don't understand that."

Wide receiver Andre Caldwell really opened up some eyes at the end of the season with his versatility in running, catching and blocking while starting four of the last five games. He even returned a kick for 43 yards.

"We got what we expected and maybe more. As I looked at the receiver prospects," Lewis said, "if I could have identified a guy, 'Boy this guy is ready to play NFL football,' it was Andre Caldwell and watching his tape from Florida and we got that out of him."

Collins, the fourth-round tackle, got shoved into the real world when the left tackles in front of him, Levi Jones and Andrew Whitworth, went down in the Nov. 16 tie against the Eagles and he had to start the last six games. The first two, naturally, came against the NFL's top two defenses, and Lewis said he "obviously exceeded expectations."

"As a kid (he) was way better than advertised," Lewis said. "He's got a chance to be a great pro and one of those tough guys you can build around for a long time."

Fifth-rounder Jason Shirley, the monstrous 340-pound defensive tackle, got more ink for his legal problems back in Frenso, Calif., than he did for anything he did on the field. His DUI was resolved late in a season he played in just three games and Lewis says his problems are behind him. Shirley had a knock in college for lacking intensity, but Lewis likes how he's responded to the tough love of defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer and line coach Jay Hayes.

"Not as much as maybe we had hoped to get, but I think now (he) understands what NFL football isThe light is on. Because he wants to be good. Mike Zimmer and Jay climbed up his butt (every practice), so he understands what's ahead for him. He has to have a great offseason. You know what? Maybe we hit a home-run there. That would be big."

The two sixth-rounders, Lynch and tight end Matt Sherry, got hurt but Lynch flashed before missing the last eight games with a knee injury on an interception from scrimmage and five special teams tackles.

"I liked the things Corey was doing before he got hurt," Lewis said. "Being a guy that understands football and has the feel for the game like Corey Lynch, I think next year he'll play lights out and really compete hard at being a starting player and we'll be able to give him some roles."

Sherry underwent season-ending shoulder surgery during training camp, but they saw enough to keep him around on rehab.

"I think he's going to grow and develop into a bigger man and might be that kind of multi-talented tight end than can receive the ball and be more of a threat in the passing game that we kind of keep looking for," Lewis said. "He has a chance to be like some of these guys that are playing and doing a good job in the passing game and be a threat. A guy that can separate and win on third down, yet gives you the blocking and things you need out of the tight end position based on some of the (pass) protections and things we do if we're going to continue to work with three wide receivers being the primary focus of things."

Wide receiver Mario Urrutia is the one seventh-rounder who stuck around (defensive end Angelo Craig was cut after camp and ended up in New England at the end of the season), but never got off the practice squad. Lewis likes his 6-5 height, but not the excess of 230 pounds.

"He got better as the season went on," Lewis said. "He was inconsistent with his hands coming in and by the end of the year I think he caught the ball very well. His focus is to keep his weight down."

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=7481

I think this changes my view a little about who they have on their board, I think their board (needs) maybe

1. pass rusher

2. OL

3. RB

4. OL

5. pass rusher

I really like the majority of last year's draft outside of Jerome Simpson. I don't think it is so much him, but if they knew they were going to take another WR in round 3 then why would they get two picks when Chad is under contract for a while. Obviously they assumed that they would be losing both WR's after this season.

The main issue I have with Jackson is the players we passed on to get him:

Desean Jackson

Ray Rice

[ArmyBengal]

Hard to know how much stock to put into all of this. I really don't remember Simpson being on the injured list as much as they claim. I can only remember Marvin saying that he had to develop and get to a point where the coaches feel he's earned his spot on the active roster so I don't quite get that. If this is what they truly believe to be the case and is a basis for looking at the draft, I think you can write in a defensive player at the #6 spot. I'm really hoping they are going to try to being some players in during FA to free up their decisions in the draft.

[Kazkal]

I remember hearing he was nicked up and it seemed like week to week...Bengals medical staff at it's best!

[Pidge]

Even though they're just little tidbits each time I see one makes me think draft Oline ess and less,Which I don't think is as horrible as people make it out to be...

I don't mean this in a nasty, Oh I'm sooo sarcastic and thuper thmart - I rule, kind of way, but you did watch us this season right? I sorta get what you're saying but this O-line needs help and not just by drafting more mid round project guards which we'll franchise tag 3 or 4 yrs down the road as we've earmarked them as a franchise tackle based on nothing but sunshine and farts.The line play was f**king horrible to witness. Injuries or not. One big clusterf**k.

As you say yourself, if one of the top two tackles are there, I think we take them. Hopefully we won't be picking this close to the top 5 again in our recent future so we might as well use it. Having said that if both of the top 2 are gone, then yeah, go with defence and pick up a quality lineman in the second.

If we want to beef up our guards then pick mid round tackles because that's what 95% of mid round quality tackles become in the NFL.

Levi, for example, will most likely be off next yr and the chances of us picking up a franchise LT in FA isn't going to happen because of our recent history in FA and the fact that teams don't let genuine franchise quality tackles in their prime get to FA in the first place. Levi will be around for another yr but who knows after that. I'd rather not wait until the last minute to get in a replacement if we can help it. It's not like we're talking about a kick returner here.

So, if Levi does kick up a fuss or is knackered for another season we'll have Collins, Whitworth maybe and a rookie, without a yr in the system to learn and improve, we might pick up in the draft next yr to protect Carson. Excuse me while I vomit in my mouth. It's frustrating to to think of putting the most important aspect of any team anywhere but #1 on the list of things to fix if it's broken, like it can wait for another yr and we'll be OK in the mean time.

Don't reach for a subpar prospect at the tackle position but if a true prospect is there at #6 then take it. Or go with D and get a talent in the second to have ready for the season after. No more mid round afterthoughts from Podunk U that we spot whilst we're there watching their long snapper who we plan draft in the second round based on his awesome hairdo please.

No idea why this post became so long as we pretty much agree but that statement jumped out at me and here I am typing this last sentence.

[Kazkal]

Two ways would like to see the line this year

LT:Anthony Collins

LG:Whitworth

C:Vet like birk or brown

RG williams

RT:Sign a solid Vet whos only has a few years left in him and develop a RT from 3rd or 4th rnd

or Draft a LG ot go after incognito and move whitworth to the right,I just feel we have choices and it's not must to take a tackle at 6...I would be ecstatic if we got Andre Smith

[HoosierCat]

Please, people, our offensive line needs no help! Here's what Marv had to say yesterday:

On Stacy Andrews: "There’s a chance he’d be ready to start training camp. He’s doing very well. It could be PUP situation or he could be ready, I can’t tell you that right now. I’ll have a little better feel for that in June if he were back. It’s going to be a process but I think as time goes on they feel more comfortable given the prognosis. He’s doing very well."

Yup, Levi and the left, Stacy on he right, and it's Michael Crabtree here we come in the first!

[Kazkal]

Here I thought we were gonna go with Chris Wells :| Damn

Meanwhile, Lewis said the Bengals, who have 10 unrestricted free agents, have no intentions of using the franchise tag on wide reciever T.J. Houshmandzadeh and kicker Shayne Graham.

Other prominent free agents include running back Cedric Benson and offensive lineman Stacy Andrews.

Franchise Stacey now!

[Pidge]

or Draft a LG ot go after incognito and move whitworth to the right,I just feel we have choices and it's not must to take a tackle at 6...I would be ecstatic if we got Andre Smith

True enough. I would be ecstatic too. Even the Bengals have to catch a break and have one of the tackles available at #6 and also maybe a couple from Orapko, Rey/Curry and Raij (sp?) to pick from depending on our FA dealings or lack thereof. We have options and we need them.

Nice to know Marvin will wait until a few short weeks before the season starts to see if we're in the s**t or not, Hoosier. And please nobody say "but they'll plan for just in case" cuz we know they won't. Cross your fingers time.

[ArmyBengal]

Here's my thing. I think they are more than willing to stick with Levi and see what Collins gives them as well. Collins can also play the right. Sure we could get a top 2 OT this year, but for the most part most drafts see a good portion of 1st round talent and can be had even through the middle of the first and later. We could be addressed next draft and still be relatively safe. Look at this draft, there will be a stupid amount of OT's taken in the first.

I'm just pretty much sold on it being a defensive pick in the first especially if they get something in free agency. Free agency is really the key to everything going into this years draft. I've said it before and will say it again, this very well may be the MOST important free agency period in Marvin's tenure as head coach. Hope they are ready...

[HairOnFire]

...I would be ecstatic if we got Andre Smith

Yup. And for whatever it might be worth....I had no problem picking Smith in the recent poll.

Rather, it's the idea of using #6 on Oher that gives me the yips.

[Kazkal]

...I would be ecstatic if we got Andre Smith

Yup. And for whatever it might be worth....I had no problem picking Smith in the recent poll.

Rather, it's the idea of using #6 on Oher that gives me the yips.

You would put FFdraft forum in tears,They want Oher above monroe,smith and every other prospect in the draft.

[HAPPYJAQ]

I've been at draft enthusiast since the James Francis draft and can't remember a draft as deep in OL (OT and C, in particular) as this one. That said, the Bengals should be able to get a decent prospect after the first round. Guys like Loadholt, Eben Britton (Levi Jones clone), Ciron Black and William Beatty are all good prospects that would be 1st rounders in other years. I think there are 10 OT's that can start on opening day in this draft.

All that said, the Bengals have to select the player at 6 that will have the biggest impact on the team. You would like to have a blue chipper at that point, but this draft is not your typical draft where there are unquestionable blue-chippers availabe in the top 10. Nearly all the prospects, including the consensus best prospect in Stafford, have holes in their games or question marks.

Salary and the salary at that position, have to be considered. That is why the Bengals will not select a DE, DT, CB or QB at #6. A running back would be ideal, but it would be a reach for the Bengals to draft Beanie or McCoy that high. That would leave LB, OT and WR. Levi's cap number is too large for him to be traded or released, so expect him to start at LT with Collins at RT, opening day. It's looking more and more to me that Rey-Rey will be the pick, or Crabtree if the Bengals move one of the WR's. I would much rather have Curry, but I believe that the Browns will pick him to be their rush LB in Mangini's 3-4.

1. Rey Maualuga, LB, USC

2. Eben Britton, OT, Arizona

3. Connor Barwin, DE/TE, Cincinnati

4a. Eric Wood, C/G, Louisville

4b. Rashad Jennings, RB, Liberty

5. Keenan Lewis, CB, Oregon State

6. Jeremiah Johnson, RB, Oregon

7. Mike Teel, QB, Rutgers

[Kazkal]

Doubt Britton,Wood or Jennings would be there but hey if they are better for us

[GregCook]

I think Marvin gave a fair reading of last year's draft, would like to hear him anaylze the 2006 and 2007 drafts too. Considering Jerome Simpson was the only true flop from last season and they got a keeper in the 4th round in Collins, yeah I agree he did well. Still, we're cursed with first round picks going down with injuries. One can only hope Heinz Ward doesn't get to play this Sunday. If they can string back to back productive drafts, something not seen here in years, they'll have the makings of 8-8 again.

[HairOnFire]

You would put FFdraft forum in tears....

You can't believe how easily I can live with that.

They want Oher above monroe,smith and every other prospect in the draft.

I've said it before and I'll repeat it now. Oher is screwing up my entire draft noodlings....and it's only gotten worse since the Senior Bowl. From the start I disagreed with his early Top 5 ranking, and I watched with some satisfaction as he steadily fell on most draft boards. But now I'm watching him rise back up to his previous position...or even higher. In fact, on half of the draft sites I visited this week I found Oher ranked as the highest rated OT, and it's no trick to find mock drafts with Oher going as high as #2, thereby dropping Andre Smith into the Bengals laps. And yeah, that works for me just fine.

But still, what do I make of Oher? I mean c'mon, I don't hate the guy and I think he's a pretty good prospect, but I've got him lumped with the 12-15 bunch.

There, I said it.

[Wraith]

As far as OT prospects I have.

Andre Smith #1

Eugene Monroe #2

Jason Smith #3

Michael Oher #4

and by the time I am done Britton may move ahead of Oher (I confess to not watching a single Arizona Game all season). I have heard from 3 sources I find reputable that Oher is DUMB and the easiest way to tank a franchise is to take DUMB Football Players high in the draft.

Needless to say the only 2 prospects I feel are worth the #6 pick in the draft from an OLine perspective are Smith (who will be gone I am betting) and Monroe.

[Pidge]

Is Jason Smith the guy from Baylor?

[GregCook]

As far as OT prospects I have.

Andre Smith #1

Eugene Monroe #2

Jason Smith #3

Michael Oher #4

and by the time I am done Britton may move ahead of Oher (I confess to not watching a single Arizona Game all season). I have heard from 3 sources I find reputable that Oher is DUMB and the easiest way to tank a franchise is to take DUMB Football Players high in the draft.

Needless to say the only 2 prospects I feel are worth the #6 pick in the draft from an OLine perspective are Smith (who will be gone I am betting) and Monroe.

From a tear jerker I read a few weeks ago, Oher had a horrible childhood, then got taken care of by a white family in Mississippi, basically they became foster parents. His education was non existent until they took an interest in him. Was conditionally accepted into a private religious school because of his new parents pleadings over his lack of education. Stayed in though and the rest is history. Dumb? Don't know. A guy that had absolutely little go his way prior to high school? For sure. I like guys like that who can rise above it all. Whether he sould be drafted at #6, who knows, but there's interviews to come, Wonderlic, and hours of tape of him.

[Wraith]

Yup Jason Smith from Baylor.

[membengal]

Michael Lewis, the one who wrote "Money Ball", wrote a book about Oher and how he came to be playing at Ole Miss. He grew up in Memphis, and the local family here that took him in was Sean Tuohey's family. Tuohey is a former Ole Miss PG and currently does the color work for Memphis Grizzlies games. He also owns a series of fast food restaurants in the area. Tuohey is generally a stand-up guy, and the work he did rescuing Oher is admirable. The book Lewis wrote is worth a read, if only because Lewis tells a good story.

I wouldn't worry about Oher's smarts too much, he may not be Mensa, but he will be able to block plenty well in the NFL. I still rate him behind Smith and Monroe, in my own person membengal mental draft board, and think he is probably a really good pick at the 10-20 area of the draft. Oher will be a really good pro, but I don't consider him as "can't miss" or potential all-pro as Smith and Monroe, but, hey, what do I know? That's just the opinion of a shlep from a computer in Memphis, Tennessee. If it were me, and Smith or Monroe are gone, I wouldn't want them to reach for Oher at #6.

[ArmyBengal]

Turned into another draft thread...

What about Marvin's analysis of last years draft ??

[Clackwoods]

Here I thought we were gonna go with Chris Wells :| Damn

Meanwhile, Lewis said the Bengals, who have 10 unrestricted free agents, have no intentions of using the franchise tag on wide reciever T.J. Houshmandzadeh and kicker Shayne Graham.

Other prominent free agents include running back Cedric Benson and offensive lineman Stacy Andrews.

Franchise Stacey now!

I hope you are joking. YEA, let's franchise a guy that tore his ACL and was part of a squad that got our QB killed. Smart move.

[HairOnFire]

What about Marvin's analysis of last years draft ??

To be fair, I burned a little when I read the comments about Jerome Simpson and I'd love to know why things will be any different this season. But it was encouraging to read the bit about possibly hitting a home run with Shirley because it implies Lewis saw more from the guy than the amount of playing time implied. Furthermore, Rivers was a very solid pick and both Sims and Collins were better than I expected.