You have to hand it to Chad. His plan might work

[HairOnFire]

No, I believe he would have played as well as he could strictly in terms of yards and catches in order to enhance his trade value and put more pressure on the team through higher interest from other teams.

The better Chad performs the less this team will want to trade him. He knows that. Thus, he offered numerous empty statements about not tanking....(Don't worry, you'll get the same old Chad)....just prior to sleepwalking through the worst season of his career.

But it's just a coincidence, right? After acting like a complete douchebag for six months or so the worst professional on the roster just caught a bad break and had a bad season?

Or even better, it was all somebody elses fault.

[HairOnFire]

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80e75e24

My favorite nuggets....poorly quoted.

"I lost my mind for awhile." --- The Ocho

"Chad's the type of guy who'll act on impulse and every now and then has to be pulled back." --- Neon

"Every time you say you're fine you take a step back." --- Rich E.

"You know TJ doesn't want to come back. We're just play acting now, but we both know the truth. Tj doesn't want to come back." --- Neon

[BengalByTheBay]

The better Chad performs the less this team will want to trade him. He knows that. Thus, he offered numerous empty statements about not tanking....(Don't worry, you'll get the same old Chad)....just prior to sleepwalking through the worst season of his career.

It's just as valid to say that the better Chad performs the more other teams will want him. The worse he performs, the more likely other teams will look at his age and say.....not the same old Chad anymore. We're looking at the same facts and forming different conclusions, that's all. Agree to disagree (again)?

[HairOnFire]

It's just as valid to say that the better Chad performs the more other teams will want him.

But that's Job Two. Job One is convincing the Bengals they'd be better off without Chad than with him. And on that front, I think we're almost there.

The worse he performs, the more likely other teams will look at his age and say.....not the same old Chad anymore.

That won't happen overnight or after a single season. Rather, after this seasons tank job some teams will look at the situation and blame the Bengals first and Chad second. In fact, I'd bet they'll offer the same excuses as you guys are making.

We're looking at the same facts and forming different conclusions, that's all.

It's all a part of life's rich tapestry, ehh?

[HoosierCat]

[We're looking at the same facts

Facts?

OK, here's some facts.

2008 vs. 2007 the Bengals attempted 4 fewer passes a game.

Chad averaged 2 fewer catches/game.

Housh averaged 1 fewer catche/game.

Henry averaged 1 fewer catch/game.

I'm not seeing much support for either the "tank" or "minimize touches" theory. I am seeing support for fewer passes = fewer catches....I think I'll take that one.

[Kazkal]

Drops went up too though no?

[ArmyBengal]

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80e75e24

My favorite nuggets....poorly quoted.

"I lost my mind for awhile." --- The Ocho

"Chad's the type of guy who'll act on impulse and every now and then has to be pulled back." --- Neon

"Every time you say you're fine you take a step back." --- Rich E.

"You know TJ doesn't want to come back. We're just play acting now, but we both know the truth. Tj doesn't want to come back." --- Neon

Hey don't forget what came immediately following the bolded underlined portion of your quote from Sanders.

"Heck, YOU don't even want to come back."

Take that one of two ways. Either one, Sanders is just trying to stir the pot or two is speaking the absolute truth due to the fact they were just speaking of how they spoke all season long to help Chad deal with things and he's in the best position to know this. Chads reaction to that comment spoke volumes in my opinion.

[Bearcat1975]

from stripehype.com...

http://stripehype.com/2009/01/30/chad-i-missed-me-this-year/

check out the video next to the highlights. Here is what is pasted to the video link:

Good segment on NFL Network with Chad Johnson. It sounds as if Ocho Cinco may finally be getting it. Highlights:

* “I’m going to be a Bengal for a while” based on conversations with people inside and outside the organization, and that he will “do what I can do” to get the Bengals to the postseason.

* “We will definitely get 9 back — and we will get 84 back.”

* “I’m at peace thanks to you [Deion Sanders] and Ray [Lewis] and a few others.”

* “Defensively we played great football, on offense if we had played like [2005] I believe we would be here [in Tampa] today.”

* Why did they struggle? “T.J. and I didn’t practice all offseason.” Says they and Carson Palmer “need to get into a flow.”

* “We had a good backup in Fitzgerald.”

* “T.J. wants to come back.” Why? “To be with me. We’ve been together since college, why break up now?”

[ArmyBengal]

I'll move this to the other thread already talking about it...

[Spor_tees]

Chad actually sounded like he had 2 cents in his head in that interview. There were a couple of things he said that had me worried...one he said this year he was a 365 degree difference than the year Larry Fitzgerald is having. Chad, 365 degrees is a full circle, that means you would be in the same place as Fitzgerald. Secondly he said he got suspended for that one game because he was late to the meeting and then fell asleep in the meeting. He then went on to blame it on TJ going to the special teams meeting instead of the offensive meeting. I'll try to quote him as best I can, "I was in bed all alone..." Chad and TJ don't share a bed during the season do they? Mike Brown can't be so cheap that he makes his players share beds can he?

Chad is very adamant that TJ will be back. I think he already knows TJ is going to get tagged.

[GregCook]

[We're looking at the same facts

Facts?

OK, here's some facts.

2008 vs. 2007 the Bengals attempted 4 fewer passes a game.

Chad averaged 2 fewer catches/game.

Housh averaged 1 fewer catche/game.

Henry averaged 1 fewer catch/game.

I'm not seeing much support for either the "tank" or "minimize touches" theory. I am seeing support for fewer passes = fewer catches....I think I'll take that one.

If true these are interesting but don't explain Chad's contribution to 0-8 then 4-11-1. Chad's well documented behavioral issues were off the field, not on it. Those off field actions can poison a locker room or keep him from playing. As for his on field performance, we all saw him play this season, undisciplined comes to mind, lack of effort comes to mind and that was especially true when Carson was slinging it at the beginning of the season. TJ had a couple big games, one against the NYG, Chad didn't have a big game all season. His best game all season long was around 80 yards, a modest effort for Chad in his prime.

[COB]

* “I’m at peace thanks to you [Deion Sanders] and Ray [Lewis] and a few others.”

* “Defensively we played great football, on offense if we had played like [2005] I believe we would be here [in Tampa] today.”

* Why did they struggle? “T.J. and I didn’t practice all offseason.” Says they and Carson Palmer “need to get into a flow.”

So Chad's spiritual advisors are an ex player who couldn't get enough spotlight (Sanders), and the team leader for our huge division rival (Ray Lewis)? Typical for someone like Chad who doesn't want to be held accountable. He can give his self-serving version of things to his advisors who live in other cities, then when they advise him he can go off and do whatever he wants because they're not around to check him.

And why anyone would be the least bit interested in Chad's opinion on why the Bengals struggled last year is beyond me. One big reason is they lack team chemistry thanks to him. Another reason is he drops balls like crazy, and won't block for our running game.

It cracks me up when simpering fools like Chad announce they were wrong and are willing to "take the rap." Or they say this one's on me, etc. If Chad were really accountable, he'd pay back half his salary. That's not realistic.

Ok, how about he admits his lack of practice hurt the team, then announces he's staying in Cincinnati the whole offseason to work out and practice. Accountability is admiting the wrong, then taking steps to make sure you fix it.

I give the new Chad a big grade of Fail.

[ArmyBengal]

He says the right things in regards to knowing him and TJ weren't there for the minicamps and training camp, but the proof will be in what he does this year if he (I assume he will be) stays with the team. If he fails to show up and try to make right then you have your answer. If he shows and makes an effort, you never know. I think he also knows that if the offense can get back to the way it was or at least close, the defense could make things interesting.

I remember Chad making a comment in an interview about wanting to come to Cincinnati and makes things good again. He has that chance and nothing would cast him back into the good graces like a stellar season that sees the Bengals into the post season.

[HairOnFire]

Chad's well documented behavioral issues were off the field, not on it.

Do they keep stats for that sort of thing? Pouting? Sleeping in meetings? Acting like a douche for months?

Those off field actions can poison a locker room or keep him from playing.

Yup. And a nationally televised game means one thing to Chad. A chance to act out on a national stage. A chance to hold his breath and turn blue. A chance to sa...."Hey, look at me. I'm still pouting."

As for his on field performance, we all saw him play this season, undisciplined comes to mind, lack of effort comes to mind and that was especially true when Carson was slinging it at the beginning of the season.

Let's not talk about what we've seen with our own eyes. Hoosier has a stat.

[BengalByTheBay]

[We're looking at the same facts

Facts?

OK, here's some facts.

2008 vs. 2007 the Bengals attempted 4 fewer passes a game.

Chad averaged 2 fewer catches/game.

Housh averaged 1 fewer catche/game.

Henry averaged 1 fewer catch/game.

I'm not seeing much support for either the "tank" or "minimize touches" theory. I am seeing support for fewer passes = fewer catches....I think I'll take that one.

Fair enough, but I would point out that Chad's yards per catch was the lowest of his career (10.2). He was at 15.5 last season and 11.8 in 2001. That's a pretty impressive drop off. I suppose its fair to argue whether that was due to the inability to get him the ball deep due to Fitz being at the helm or whether they were, indeed, limiting Chad's role in the offense (calling a 6 yard slant vs. a post). I'm saying a good bit of it was intentional, but it's not like I'm hanging out in the coach's lounge or anything. It's just my impression that there was a level of punitive Chad-freezing.

[HairOnFire]

Ok, how about he admits his lack of practice hurt the team, then announces he's staying in Cincinnati the whole offseason to work out and practice.

Exactly. If I wanted to argue Chad didn't purposely tank the entire season I'd first have to conclude his unforced actions had little or no impact on his performance. And I can't do that. Furthermore, neither could Charlie Casserly, who reported early in the season how Chad hadn't lifted a weight during the entire offseason. And neither could Marvin Lewis, who openly suggested Chad's failure to repeat his past offseason work habits were the cause of Chad's miserable season. Furthermore, our own stat boy Dave, aka Mr.StripeHype, isn't buying Chad's excuses either....

"I can’t speak for anyone else, but my eyebrows rose when Chad admitted he was responsible at least in part for the offense’s poor showing last season because he and T.J. Houshmandzadeh skipped the offseason program and thus didn’t get into a “flow” with Carson Palmer."

So eyebrows are raised because Chad admits his role in last seasons staggering offensive decline? Please. The only thing even remotely shocking about Chad's remarks relate to statements about accepting blame, not about whether Chad tanked in exactly the same manner that many predicted.

Of course Chad continues to portray TJ's actions as no different than his own...conveniently ignoring the months Chad has spent spewing venom. Conveniently ignoring the following months of sullen passive-aggressive pouting. Conveniently ignoring the sleepy meltdown that lead to a team suspension. And most importantly, completely ignoring the vast differences in the two players respective performances.....and attitudes.

As for those differences in production, take a quick glance at TJ's numbers from last season. Despite team related circumstances that were EXACTLY the same there was no significant change in Housh's production....or his attitude. And this wouldn't be possible if Housh hadn't actually done the very things he claimed he was doing. Specifically, busting ass.

So who amongst us really thinks Chad busted ass last offseason?

Bottom Line: He tanked. And now he's promising not to do it again. Well, hooray I guess.

[BengalByTheBay]

So who amongst us really thinks Chad busted ass last offseason?

Bottom Line: He tanked. And now he's promising not to do it again. Well, hooray I guess.

So he "tanked" practice? I don't see anybody saying Chad busted ass or wasn't a jackass last offseason. At least not me -- he didn't and he was. He clearly didn't participate until he had to. That's true of TJ as well, as far as that goes. IIMO Chad's production was way down for 2 reasons...he didn't play particularly well and he wasn't used as a big part of the offense. Which one of those factors was biggest, hey that's a matter of opinion I suppose. I believe both were factors, however. The team marginalized him and -- after you take away the deep threat -- Chad's game isn't all that impressive. I was somewhat surprised that he played "hurt" although I have no idea whether a torn labrum actually hurts or whether it mainly just limits range of movement. In any event, it probably would've been a better strategy to get that fixed and, in essence, to sit out the season. Don't know why he didn't, but I expected that every week of the season. As it turned out it was just strange. He played without making many meaningful catches. Occasionally, he seemed somewhat into it, but the majority of the season he looked disinterested. To me that's not so much "tanking" as pouting, but maybe it's the same thing to some. I see tanking as intentionally playing poorly (or faking injury) to piss off the coaches/owners. IMO he pouted some, the team pouted back and everybody kind of lost. It really made no sense for anybody and the result was pretty lame. As for TJ, he's shown he can blow off team activities and still appear motivated and productive during the season. Chad's, not surprisingly, not a strong enough emotional personality to do that.

[COB]

IIMO Chad's production was way down for 2 reasons...he didn't play particularly well and he wasn't used as a big part of the offense.

Those two factors aren't mutually exclusive. One leads to the other. An NFL starting receiver who doesn't lift or workout in the offseason, then doesn't participate in any organized team activities, then misses preseason with an ankle surgery?

That receiver isn't going to be able to get off dbs jamming him at the line fast enough to be able to run his route within the timing scheme that the play dictates. He will also drop a lot of balls. He will also run sloppy routes.

That poor play doesn't occur in one world, and the freezing out by the playcalling occur in another world. Quarterbacks see that, can't find him to throw to. Coaches see that, can't be bothered to call a play they know won't work. Pretty soon, the player's role in the offense is marginalized. It's inevitable.

There aren't many, if any, skill players in the NFL who could pull off what Chad tried. No offseason work, no ota's or any team activities, no preseason. Any receiver would have a year like Chad, no matter how hard the coaches try to feed them the ball. That's my opinion.

[HairOnFire]

So he "tanked" practice?

No, he tanked the entire offseason. Then he tanked practice.

I don't see anybody saying Chad busted ass or wasn't a jackass last offseason. At least not me -- he didn't and he was. He clearly didn't participate until he had to.

Translation: After tanking the entire offseason Chad reported only when forced to. And his willingness to do as little as possible, rather than prepare as he once did, was later reflected by Chad's lack of production.

That's true of TJ as well, as far as that goes.

Actually, it isn't. TJ, like Chad, didn't attend workouts if he didn't have to. But TJ hadn't spent the previous months attacking the team, had he? And TJ's offseason prep wasn't directly called into question by Charlie Casserly or Marvin Lewis. And last, despite playing in the exact same offensive mess TJ's production AND attitude didn't crater in the same way Chad's did.

He played without making many meaningful catches. Occasionally, he seemed somewhat into it, but the majority of the season he looked disinterested. To me that's not so much "tanking" as pouting.....

Let me get this one straight. Being disinterested and unproductive for an entire season isn't tanking?

I see tanking as intentionally playing poorly (or faking injury) to piss off the coaches/owners.

How about popping off for months about how you're underpaid, underappreciated, and horribly disrespected....then doing as little as possible in a manner impossible to ignore....then playing an entire unproductive season as if you're disinterested? That isn't tanking?

As for TJ, he's shown he can blow off team activities and still appear motivated and productive during the season. Chad's, not surprisingly, not a strong enough emotional personality to do that.

So ask yourself how might an emotionally weak person react to feelings of being underappreciated and underpaid? A strong player like TJ might amp it up just to prove his remaining doubters wrong, but IMHO the emotionally weak person will very often deliberately underperform to a level they feel better matches their level of pay.

[BengalByTheBay]

IIMO Chad's production was way down for 2 reasons...he didn't play particularly well and he wasn't used as a big part of the offense.

Those two factors aren't mutually exclusive. One leads to the other.

I agree 100%. I also think the offseason campaign by Chad did a lot to limit his role when the bullets started flying.

[BengalByTheBay]

I see tanking as intentionally playing poorly (or faking injury) to piss off the coaches/owners.

How about popping off for months about how you're underpaid, underappreciated, and horribly disrespected....then doing as little as possible in a manner impossible to ignore....then playing an entire unproductive season as if you're disinterested? That isn't tanking?

See above -- intentionally playing badly or faking an injury -- just half-assing it is ... half-assing it.

[HairOnFire]

See above -- intentionally playing badly or faking an injury -- just half-assing it is ... half-assing it.

Don't kid yourself. Just half-assing it IS intentionally playing badly.

[COB]

See above -- intentionally playing badly or faking an injury -- just half-assing it is ... half-assing it.

Yup, I've been half-assing it in here for years. The difference between Chad and me is that I'm not yelling for Bengalszone to trade me to the go-bengals, or any of the places that hate the Bengals, like the Revolution website, or the Enquirer. Instead I just quietly do my job. Horribly.

I'm kind of like an honorary Hayes brother.

[Pidge]

See above -- intentionally playing badly or faking an injury -- just half-assing it is ... half-assing it.

Yup, I've been half-assing it in here for years. The difference between Chad and me is that I'm not yelling for Bengalszone to trade me to the go-bengals, or any of the places that hate the Bengals, like the Revolution website, or the Enquirer. Instead I just quietly do my job. Horribly.

I'm kind of like an honorary Hayes brother.

Is this where we're meant to disagree? Oh no man, hey - HEY - you're alright, you're good n stuff.

[agreen_112]

The bottom line is that Chad didn't tank '08... His mind wasn't right and he was NOT focused. There's a big difference betweeen tanking and a lack of focus. He realizes now that Cincinnati is where he wants to be. He's ready to do work and he has enough reason to believe that TJ will also be in stripes in '09, good enough for me.. Lets forget about '08 and look forward to '09.

This team has a ton of potential. Finally we have a D cordinator worth his job titile. We have young, fast, hard hitting, smart defensive players. This defense will continue to grow under Zimmer, look at what one season did. Throw in an impact MLB and a pass rushing DT and this defense is a steady 10-15 ranked D, maybe even better.

Our offense needs help on the line. We need a Center. L. Jones, Whitworth, ?, B. Williams, S. Andrews can get it done. That is a solid offensive line. Without that anchor in the middle we will continue to struggle. Gaychik is NOT an anchor... Guys, we're litteraly a few players away. This team has WAY more talent than most of your '08 playoff teams.

#1 pick should be Defense

#2 C, OT