For those of you who wanted Alex Mack in Rd. 2......

[HAPPYJAQ]

.....Please check out the NFL Networks coverage of the Senior Bowl practices this week.

B.J. Raji and Sam Brace have been eating him alive all week, consistently pushing him 3-4 yards in the backfield on both one-on-one drills and the team drills. It got to the point he had to be replaced with Max Unger, just so the Bengals coaches could continue the "play install". He looked too much like Ghiaciuc, for my liking. HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT. I would be surprised if the Bengals are still looking at him as a first-day pick. Unger did a decent job when he came in, though.

That Raji kid is a beast! If Mack thinks he's tough, wait until he sees Hampton, Ngata and Rogers. Phil Loadholt looked like a player that could be a swing lineman, like the Bengals like.

Coaches Jeff FitzGerld and Mike Zimmer are the real deal, though. Extremely intense. Bratkowski has looked rather disinterested in the ongoings at practice, which I found surprising. It's kinda cool watching the squad run some of the same plays that the Bengals ran during the regular season.

[COB]

I think that columnist for the Dallas Morning News has been watching those practices on the tube as well.

[HoosierCat]

So, let me get this straight...despite a stellar college career Mack is now garbage because of a couple of questionable practices (and I can find you accounts of him doing just fine, too) next to guys he's never played with before while being coached by the Bengals staff???

Get a grip, happy.

[Bearcat1975]

could he be dogging it based on his agents advice? ("The Bengals REALLY need a center. What team did you say you didn't want to play for again, son?")

[Kazkal]

God forbid him have few bad practices when the guy played entire season as the best center in college football but hey he is garbage now because of a few practices...same with reyrey you know his play for 4 years means nothing because hes had few bad practices he's now trash.....

PS,I was reading that Max Unger was getting owned pretty bad too

could he be dogging it based on his agents advice? ("The Bengals REALLY need a center. What team did you say you didn't want to play for again, son?")

Alexander needs be showing him some film on carson when he had Rich Braham,you can be the difference mr mack

guys he's never played before while being coached by the Bengals staff???

But but but I thought paul alexander was a great Oline coach heh

PS,Wasn't sims known for not giving it his all in practice...how did he look in a game on the field?

[HairOnFire]

So, let me get this straight...despite a stellar college career Mack is now garbage because of a couple of questionable practices (and I can find you accounts of him doing just fine, too) next to guys he's never played with before while being coached by the Bengals staff???

A couple of points. First, most of the drills in question are ones where the defensive player has a built in advantage either due to no play reading demands or the exaggerated amount of room lineman have to move. Second, the Bengals coaching staff, offensive line in particular, has been singled out for praise by the observers. Last, despite all of that it does come down to this. Mack has looked bad. Specifically, he lacks power and is getting pushed around routinely. And for whatever it might be worth, Unger has looked better. Perhaps not more powerful, but textbook strong. Perfect technique.

[HoosierCat]

Mack has looked bad. Specifically, he lacks power and is getting pushed around routinely. And for whatever it might be worth, Unger has looked better. Perhaps not more powerful, but textbook strong. Perfect technique.

Blah blah blah. Hey, what say we ask some people who are actually there...?

Matt McGuire @ walterfootball.com

http://www.walterfootball.com/seniorbowl2009practice2.php

Alex Mack pulled away in the center battle with Max Unger and he displayed a lot of strength and great technique.

Russ Lane @ Sporting News

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=509309

Alex Mack, C, California

Definitely looked the part in uniform with thick lower body. Showed good quickness out of stance to get into blocking position fast and gets hands up and onto DT quickly. Did a good job overall, but was overmatched and driven backwards by B.J. Raji one time.

Max Unger, C, Oregon

Struggled with strength as he was jolted and driven backward numerous times by Raji and Ron Brace. Did not look like he is strong enough to handle NFL defensive tackles.

Jon Cozart @ gbn

http://www.gbnreport.com/seniorbowlreport.htm

The big news pehaps from this mornings North pracice was that the offensive line, which appeared to have missed the wake-up call from their pre-practice naps yesterday afternoon, was collecively much sharper. C Alex Mack and Okalhoma OT Phil Loadholt have looked good.  In fact, I haven’t witnessed Loadholt getting beat in either practice so far. Loadholt has consistently gotten great arm extension and has displayed much more active feet than expected. Mack hasn’t been as dominate but is taking care of business in his own right.  He gives himself a solid base and can anchor against the big men like 340-pound Boston College DT Ron Brace.

[HairOnFire]

Blah blah blah. Hey, what say we ask some people who are actually there...?

Blah, blah, blah yourself.

Were YOU there?

And if not, have you bothered watching the coverage?

Or are you just a well trained monkey who knows how to cut and paste the opinions of others?

[HoosierCat]

Blah blah blah. Hey, what say we ask some people who are actually there...?

Blah, blah, blah yourself.

Were YOU there?

No

And if not, have you bothered watching the coverage?

Yes. And I agree with the opinions of the others, not you.

Here, I'll even throw you another one...

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/ins...%3fid%3d3847029

On Monday, we said that Boston College DT B.J. Raji is the clear front-runner to emerge as the top prospect at lineman -- defensive or offensive -- in his class by the time we leave Mobile. After this morning's practice, we now feel that he is one of the top two or three prospects here regardless of position. Raji continues to showcase his rare blend of size, burst and agility, and he manhandled highly touted Oregon C Max Unger on more than one occasion. In fact, he got under Unger's pads, drove him back and then put him on his back on one snap during one-on-one pass-rushing drills.

While Unger clearly had problems sinking his hips and anchoring in pass protection Tuesday despite weighing in at a respectable 299 pounds, Cal C Alex Mack fared better. Missouri DT Ziggy Hood did beat Mack with a spin move during one-on-one pass rush drills, but Mack did a better job of holding his ground. In addition, he looks to be a split-second quicker than Unger.

[GregCook]

I go over to UC Berkeley's Maxwell field throughout the fall and there is this huge poster of the lad hanging on Memorial Stadium and I've wondered if he'd be going from Berkeley to Cincinnati, kind of the reverse of my own travels! If he is picked, I think he'll do fine. Pac 10 is a tough conference and the conferences' defensive linemen picked him as the best Olinemen during his career. He might fall in their lap, but odds are against it.

[Clackwoods]

Blah blah blah. Hey, what say we ask some people who are actually there...?

Blah, blah, blah yourself.

Were YOU there?

And if not, have you bothered watching the coverage?

Or are you just a well trained monkey who knows how to cut and paste the opinions of others?

You two sound like some Browns fans. The scouts no what they are doing and they will determine the best prospect!

[HoosierCat]

The scouts no what they are doing and they will determine the best prospect!

The Bengals have scouts?

[HAPPYJAQ]

So, let me get this straight...despite a stellar college career Mack is now garbage because of a couple of questionable practices (and I can find you accounts of him doing just fine, too) next to guys he's never played with before while being coached by the Bengals staff???

Get a grip, happy.

Im not saying that he's "garbage".

I'm just saying that, based on what I saw, he didn't consistently fare well against better talent than he's seen in the Pacific 10.

Alex Mack is a very smart, technically sound, athletic Center, by all accounts. What the Bengals need is a mauler who can hold his own at the point of attack and get positive movement in the running game. The Bengals face physically imposing DT's/NT's 6 games a year in Shaun Rogers, Haloti Ngata and Casey Hampton. The only way the Bengals will ever have a chance against these teams is to be more physical up front and that starts with the Center position. It has been long understood prior to the Senior Bowl that Mack lacks upper body strength but what I was hoping to see that he could use leverage and angles to combat that negative to his game and from what I saw, he was dominated. These practices are extremely vanilla....Single safety high, no stunts or blitzing....and he looked equally bad in the one-on-one drills. I have gone back and read where some analysts have said that he was solid, though.

Center is most likely the most difficult position to master in the game, behind only QB. I'm still hoping that the Bengals use that #38 pick overall on a player that can help them immediately, as opposed to 3-4 years from now.

Oh yeah, he was a Pac-10 All conference selection and All-American so he must be good, right? Bonus points if you remember how this former All-American Center and Bengals draftee fared:

http://bentley.umich.edu/athdept/football/...am/aapayner.htm

[ArmyBengal]

I don't want to see another Center in stripes that weighs in the 290's range. They just aren't going to be big enough against the AFCN opponents. I'm still liking Luigs at Center and if he can be had in the top of the 3rd, I would be all over that pick... That said, Mack is still the best option at this point.

[kentjett]

What about Wood. Everybody seems to think that he is becoming the best C in the draft. He is also from Cincy and it would be easier to keep him here long term if need be.

[HAPPYJAQ]

What about Wood. Everybody seems to think that he is becoming the best C in the draft. He is also from Cincy and it would be easier to keep him here long term if need be.

I watch almost every U of L game and can tell you that Eric Wood is a very, very good C. He might not be as athletic as Mack or even Giauchic, but he is very strong at the point of attack, can also play guard effectively and has good strength. He helped paved a lot of running holes for Michael Bush and Kolby Smith while they were here and Victor Anderson this past season.

Another reason that I am not sold on drafting Mack at the top of the 2nd is that this is an extremely deep and talented group of Centers in this year's draft. You can get a guy like Wood, Antoine Caldwell or Jonathan Luigs in the 3rd or 4th round this year, who could easily have been 2nd rounders in a normal draft. All of those players will be good pros and I don't think they are that far away in overall grade from Mack.

[HoosierCat]

Im not saying that he's "garbage".

I'm just saying that, based on what I saw, he didn't consistently fare well against better talent than he's seen in the Pacific 10.

Well, if you were watching, you didn't see any of the centers fare very well, especially against Raji, which I think says more about him than them.

Alex Mack is a very smart, technically sound, athletic Center, by all accounts. What the Bengals need is a mauler who can hold his own at the point of attack and get positive movement in the running game.

Which, from all I've seen and read, Mack is. He creates huge holes in the run game; he does have a tendency to give up a bit too quickly on blocks, though. That can be fixed.

[HairOnFire]

And if not, have you bothered watching the coverage?

Yes. And I agree with the opinions of the others, not you.

Here, I'll even throw you another one...

How about offering your own opinion for once?

[HairOnFire]

It has been long understood prior to the Senior Bowl that Mack lacks upper body strength but what I was hoping to see that he could use leverage and angles to combat that negative to his game and from what I saw, he was dominated. These practices are extremely vanilla....Single safety high, no stunts or blitzing....and he looked equally bad in the one-on-one drills. I have gone back and read where some analysts have said that he was solid, though.

Exactly. So in the end what do you choose to believe, your own eyes OR what you've read?

[HairOnFire]

Another reason that I am not sold on drafting Mack at the top of the 2nd is that this is an extremely deep and talented group of Centers in this year's draft. You can get a guy like Wood, Antoine Caldwell or Jonathan Luigs in the 3rd or 4th round this year, who could easily have been 2nd rounders in a normal draft. All of those players will be good pros and I don't think they are that far away in overall grade from Mack.

Luigs is another center who lacks power at the point of attack and is said to be weak when facing NT's. Caldwell has better power but lacks athleticism. Wood is said to be good at everything but not really great at anything...and he looks dramatically smaller than Caldwell when lined up side to side.

Just saying....

[Kazkal]

I don't want to see another Center in stripes that weighs in the 290's range. They just aren't going to be big enough against the AFCN opponents. I'm still liking Luigs at Center and if he can be had in the top of the 3rd, I would be all over that pick... That said, Mack is still the best option at this point.

Good because Alex mack is 6'4 316,People covering the senior bowl point out how these drills mainly set up to favor the defense still would be more happy to burn a 2nd on Mack I just doubt he'll be there.

[Whur CHad At?]

Give me Eric Wood Rd.3

[derekshank]

Give me Eric Wood Rd.3

Pass. He's a Ghiaciuc clone.

His lower body is very weak. He gets bull-rushed easily by stronger opponents, and his style of pass blocking involves trying to turn a defender and ride him out of the pocket. Doesn't this sound like the turnstyle we all came to know and love as Bluto?

[BlainThePain]

I think this little tidbit from draftdaddy.com is relevant to this conversation.

http://www.draftdaddy.com/blog/nfldraft.htm

Russ Lande of The Sporting News looks at how 25 Notable prospects have fared at The Senior Bowl.

DD.comment: We like putting these links up, because most of it is great content. But we think it's silly to seriously disparage and to vaguely write off some of these players that have had great college careers (i.e McKillop and Cosby) because they did not look real sharp in one or two practices at an all-star game. Keep in mind a few years ago a different mainstream media draft analyst wrote linebackers Patrick Willis and Paul Posluszny were "overrated" and would have a tough time in the N.F.L. because they looked sluggish at the first few Senior Bowl practices. Another wrote ex-Nebraska linebacker Stewart Bradley couldn't cover well enough in Mobile and predicted he'd be a total flop at the next level. All three have fared extremely well as pros, so far.

[HairOnFire]

This one seems to fit this thread well enough...

I just finished watching the coverage of Day 4 South and noticed Luigs was struggling with snaps out of the shotgun formation. For example, on one play Luigs long snaps perfectly...on the next he rolls a dribbler between his legs. I watch the replay and it's unforced. Luigs appears to "dead arm" the snap and the ball never rises more than a few inches off the turf, and never rolls more than a yard behind the LOS. So it's not just a bad snap...there's no energy.

I wasn't going to mention it since it was just a single play, but the show closed with a Jags assistant coach noting how much trouble the South team had all week snapping the ball out of the shotgun formation, and how odd that was considering both of his top centers, Luigs and Caldwell, have extensive experience in shotgun formations.

Just saying....