Shirley gets 30 days in orange W/O stripes

[CJBestInAFC]

They were saying the same thing about Sims and look how well he has worked out for the Bengals.

Who made that call? Who determined when Sims was capable of winning as many battles as he lost? Who determined when Sims had lost enough weight that he was finally able to reach down and touch his own dick?

It wasn't you, was it?

Look, I'm not arguing AGAINST playing time. I'm suggesting in my own colorful manner that coaches are in the best position to make the call.

Besides, as was proven in the Anthony Collins example, the Bengals could begin playing Shirley this week and half of you clowns wouldn't notice for another month.

Well it took for JT to become injured and JT saying that Sims should be more part or the defensive line rotation. JT is not a coach but is forcing their hand to make changes on the defense. Why is JT so smart and can notice that Sims needed to get some playing time? Is it going to take JT voicing his opinion to get the coaches to give Shirley some playing time? I sure hope not, but hey according to you the coaches know better about football than all of us fans do and we should just shut up, right? That's why they listened to JT instead of making the decision to play Sims on their own. I can understand the coaches not playing an inexperienced rookie if they were still in contention for the playoffs but the Bengals aren't going to the playoffs and have only won one game this season. Obviously what they are doing isn't working, and that falls on the coaches and the personel on the field. If you are running a company and your sales continue to fall do you keep using the same strategy and employees that got you into the mess in the first place? No you make changes just as the Bengals should do.

[Pidge]

They were saying the same thing about Sims and look how well he has worked out for the Bengals.

Who made that call? Who determined when Sims was capable of winning as many battles as he lost? Who determined when Sims had lost enough weight that he was finally able to reach down and touch his own dick?

It wasn't you, was it?

Look, I'm not arguing AGAINST playing time. I'm suggesting in my own colorful manner that coaches are in the best position to make the call.

Besides, as was proven in the Anthony Collins example, the Bengals could begin playing Shirley this week and half of you clowns wouldn't notice for another month.

If our line coaches proved they were anything other than garden variety then I'd agree. I don't really care either way but questioning the wisdom of most of the coaching staff isn't a radical idea given the tepid s**t they've served up for quite a while.

Of course they are actually paid by a team for their wisdom and experience and I'm just a schlub on the intawebz.

[HairOnFire]

Well it took for JT to become injured and JT saying that Sims should be more part or the defensive line rotation. JT is not a coach but is forcing their hand to make changes on the defense. Why is JT so smart and can notice that Sims needed to get some playing time? Is it going to take JT voicing his opinion to get the coaches to give Shirley some playing time? I sure hope not, but hey according to you the coaches know better about football than all of us fans do and we should just shut up, right?

Well, now that you mention it I wouldn't mind it very much if you just shut up. But I'm not demanding, or even asking that you do. In fact, I want to hear even more of this theory of yours.

The one about how John Thornton is calling the shots.

[HairOnFire]

I don't really care either way but questioning the wisdom of most of the coaching staff isn't a radical idea given the tepid s**t they've served up for quite a while.

Question away.

But try to keep in mind their jobs are on the line and it's entirely plausible, if not likely...the coaches are actually playing the best guys they've got.

BTW, what makes any of you think Shirley is suddenly ready to go? Outside of the changes that took place within a California courtroom....what's different today than yesterday?

[CJBestInAFC]

Well it took for JT to become injured and JT saying that Sims should be more part or the defensive line rotation. JT is not a coach but is forcing their hand to make changes on the defense. Why is JT so smart and can notice that Sims needed to get some playing time? Is it going to take JT voicing his opinion to get the coaches to give Shirley some playing time? I sure hope not, but hey according to you the coaches know better about football than all of us fans do and we should just shut up, right?

Well, now that you mention it I wouldn't mind it very much if you just shut up. But I'm not demanding, or even asking that you do. In fact, I want to hear even more of this theory of yours.

The one about how John Thornton is calling the shots.

I never said JT was calling the shots. I don't know where you got that from, all I was saying is that it took JT to make comments about Sims to get him more playing time. I never said that he was calling the shots, maybe you read more into what I wrote above a little too much. I think the coaches have a hard time justifying playing a guy with little experience and a low salary to a player with declining skills that is getting payed $4million a season. What's the reason again for JT? Oh that's right he is such a great lockeroom guy. JT is not the future so why keep giving him snaps when we all know he will not be with the Bengals next year? You never know about Shirley he could be a dominator in there but the coaches wouldn't want to see what the guy brings by playing him in a real game. Smart strategy if you ask me! (sarcasm). Practice is one thing and playing in a game is another. You can't fully evaluate how well a player plays from practice.

[HairOnFire]

I never said JT was calling the shots. I don't know where you got that from, all I was saying is that it took JT to make comments about Sims to get him more playing time. I never said that he was calling the shots, maybe you read more into what I wrote above a little too much.

"JT is not a coach but is forcing their hand to make changes on the defense." ---TheDsucks

Practice is one thing and playing in a game is another. You can't fully evaluate how well a player plays from practice.

Well, what makes you think Shirley is doing anything worth mentioning in practice? What if he's actually playing like the project Marvin Lewis has always said he was? Should the Bengals draw first blood now simply because your level of interest is higher than it would be in better days?

[Ickey44]

I don't really care either way but questioning the wisdom of most of the coaching staff isn't a radical idea given the tepid s**t they've served up for quite a while.

Question away.

But try to keep in mind their jobs are on the line and it's entirely plausible, if not likely...the coaches are actually playing the best guys they've got.

BTW, what makes any of you think Shirley is suddenly ready to go? Outside of the changes that took place within a California courtroom....what's different today than yesterday?

Nobody is saying he's ready to go, at least I'm not. I just want him to start getting some playing time so when next season starts, he will (hopefully) be ready to go. There's really no point trying to win out when you have no chance at the playoffs. Now's the time to develop young guys to replace those who won't be here next year.

I think all of us would like to see Shirley, Simpson, and Caldwell get some playing time. There's a very real chance that Thornton, Loco Cinco, and Houshmandzadeh won't be here next year. Why not start getting these guys ready now?

[Kazkal]

....whereas Shirley might actually, you know, *improve* with some snaps under his belt.

It'll never happen, Jackson.

Two words, TJ....."Coach Hayes"

In Hayes defense,what have we given him to work with since he's been here at DT ? We've pretty much ignored the position till Peko & Sims.

[gregstephens]

I don't really care either way but questioning the wisdom of most of the coaching staff isn't a radical idea given the tepid s**t they've served up for quite a while.

Question away.

But try to keep in mind their jobs are on the line and it's entirely plausible, if not likely...the coaches are actually playing the best guys they've got.

BTW, what makes any of you think Shirley is suddenly ready to go? Outside of the changes that took place within a California courtroom....what's different today than yesterday?

Nobody is saying he's ready to go, at least I'm not. I just want him to start getting some playing time so when next season starts, he will (hopefully) be ready to go. There's really no point trying to win out when you have no chance at the playoffs. Now's the time to develop young guys to replace those who won't be here next year.

I think all of us would like to see Shirley, Simpson, and Caldwell get some playing time. There's a very real chance that Thornton, Loco Cinco, and Houshmandzadeh won't be here next year. Why not start getting these guys ready now?

This is starting to be a silly argument. Why did this brain-fart team even draft players that can't be ready to even stick in a game and be given a shot by the mid-way point of the season? We're not talking quarterbacks here that need a year to learn the system (Matt Ryan ). Did we truly just piss off this year's draft on guys that will never play in the NFL?

[HairOnFire]

There's really no point trying to win out when you have no chance at the playoffs.

See, this is where our opinions differ the most, and why I think we keep having scraps over players like Collins and Shirley. Because I can easily get behind the idea of developing young players to a point, but I think it's of utmost importance this team continues doing everything it can to win each of the remaining games. So I say let the coaches determine who plays and who sits and then at seasons end judge how the players who did get on the field played for their coaches.

BTW, how can there be any question about whether a culture of losing exists when Bengal fans routinely wonder if it wouldn't be better if the team went winless OR wonder aloud why players are still trying to win after going 0-8? Cripers, how crazy is it when Bengals fans are openly disappointed by any win?

Try this. Ask yourself if you felt the same after a 2-14 season as you did after a 6-10 tilt? Because ultimately they're the same thing, right? So why does one feel dramatically worse to me than the other?

[Ickey44]

I'm not saying we shouldn't try to win, but the choice now is to keep trying to win or develop young players. I think it's more beneficial for the team's future to develop our draft picks now since we are out of playoff contention. It just makes more sense to me.

[COB]

I'm sort of fascinated by the prospects for our man-sasquatch. But back at the end of July, Curnette reported on Oklahoma drills at the first day of camp. The quote was, "Right tackle Stacy Andrews moved rookie defensive tackle Jason Shirley 15 yards downfield with a lightning-fast start." That image never left my mind. When you are as massive and as strong as Shirley, how unsound must your technique be to get driven back 15 yards? You can be beaten, anyone can. But to be driven 15 yards downfield, you basically don't know what the hell you're doing. I don't know any more than anyone else in regards to where he is now in his development, but it was and may still be a steep learning curve.

"He moved me around without much problem." - signed, some guy in Fresno who was taking a crap when Jason Shirley drove his car into him and knocked him off the john and across the bathroom.

[gregstephens]

I'm sort of fascinated by the prospects for our man-sasquatch. But back at the end of July, Curnette reported on Oklahoma drills at the first day of camp. The quote was, "Right tackle Stacy Andrews moved rookie defensive tackle Jason Shirley 15 yards downfield with a lightning-fast start." That image never left my mind. When you are as massive and as strong as Shirley, how unsound must your technique be to get driven back 15 yards? You can be beaten, anyone can. But to be driven 15 yards downfield, you basically don't know what the hell you're doing. I don't know any more than anyone else in regards to where he is now in his development, but it was and may still be a steep learning curve.

"He moved me around without much problem." - signed, some guy in Fresno who was taking a crap when Jason Shirley drove his car into him and knocked him off the john and across the bathroom.

Which leads me back to my question of why this team is obviously drafting guys, in early rounds no less, that may very well never play in the NFL? It has to go past the whole no-scouting department issue also. What would possess us to draft Shirley, Simpson, et al when they apparently are no closer to stepping on the field in an NFL game than I?

It's a good thing we didn't do the trade of Fredo to Washington. We wouldn't gotten anything useful out of those draft picks either.

[Passepartout]

Just how many Bengals is that being arrested.

About at least 11 or 12!

[HairOnFire]

What would possess us to draft Shirley, Simpson, et al when they apparently are no closer to stepping on the field in an NFL game than I?

Falling drunk from the stands is not the same as stepping on the field.

I'm fine with the idea of drafting projects. After all, the guy pushing Shirley 15 yards downfield used to be a project, right? And how much playing time did the Dancing Bear get in his first year? Or for that matter his second?

But yeah, for those of us who once had hopes this time might be able to "rebuild on the fly" the idea of getting so little from first day draft picks like Simpson and Caldwell, well.....it grinds a little. And if you're mood is even darker then I can see how it would still gring when we start talking about second day picks.

But I'm in no real hurry to see a DT who just might get pushed 15 yards downfield. So I say let's wait until the coaches show him how to brake. And I'm in really not in a hurry to see a LT who may or may not have been blown up on his first NFL sweep. Ease him in and let him find some sort of comfort zone. And I'm not in a hurry to see young nickleback prospects like David Jones anytime soon. If ever.

Continue developing young players? Sure. Give 'em some playing time in controlled situations. Certainly.

But keep the floodgates closed.