QB DEBATE THAT needs to be settled on Neutral ground

[Clackwoods]

My friend who is a huge bills fan posted the below message on the Buffalo message boards. All them idiots are saying Brett Favre is better than Jim Kelly, but they are voting for Kelly. Please vote so we can end this dispute me and him have been having since we were in Iraq together a couple years back.

PS: I know this is going to turn into a vote and discussion about the best ever so I am going to add that poll and some choices as well. Please vote on both and help us end this dumb discussion.

It only allows ten choices. I know I left off Steve Young and a couple of the old school qb's who I don't really know much about. I defiantly left off Tom Brady because he is 9 points away from being the next Jim "I can't win a Superbowl" Kelly. Have fun with this. GO BENGALS 2009....lol

I have a friend who is a huge Brett Favre Fan.

Personally I think he is the most overrated QB ever in Football. Yes he is a Good QB but I don't think he is the best ever or even top 5. My Friend says he is definitely top 10 ever. I mean yes he has broke all the QB records but he has also played in more games than Dan Marino.

The problem I have is everyone talks abou his Streak like it is something Great. It would be if he was not addicted to Pain Killers earlier in his career. I think that takes away from his streak.

While we were Talking about this the real question came up. He said,

"I know you don't think Jim Kelly is better than Brett Favre, I mean Jim Kelly has not even won a Super Bowl, Jim Kelly is Garbage"

The I thought about it for a few Seconds and said Yes actually I do think Kelly was better than Favre.

But when I really think about it they are very Similair and I think are pretty dead even minus the 1 Super Bowl win

So I ask what do you guys think who is the better QB?

Jim Kelly or Brett Favre?

[Pidge]

Well now, I love these discussions. Personally, I'd say I like Kelly more as a QB (not just because of my college bias). His overall game and style. I like Favre's gunslinger approach too - it's fantastic to watch as a neutral. Ultimately QBs get paid to win. It's for this reason I'll go with Favre over Kelly. Maybe not a "better" technical QB but he won when it counted. Kelly had 4 chances. Maybe unfair and it's a team etc but yeah...

I'll also go with Montana over Marino for the same reason - as modern time QBs go anyway. All four of them are very good QBs technically and will be remembered but gotta go with the rings ultimately. Probably unfair but hey winning is what counts, not looking pretty whilst almost winning. However, I haven't watched nearly as much football as many on here no doubt, especially QBs back in the day so that's just based largely on my ignorance. Aikman has won 3 SBs too but I dunno, just don't think he's as good, nevermind better, than Marino in modern times.

[Pidge]

Also, about Brady - never understood why he's hated so much. I'm not as exposed to him over here of course, but the guy gets it done. He has done for years with various journeymen before last season. That O-line hasn't always been great either. Sure he plays on a good team but then so do all the other QBs that win SBs. I dunno, the guy has a great record and might not be TEH ALL TIMEZ RECORDZ KINGER but yeah, he's gotta be up amongst the top 10 discussions by the time he retires. Could just be a side effect of the Belichick thing maybe or that he bangs hawt vimmin.

[gregstephens]

Also, about Brady - never understood why he's hated so much. I'm not as exposed to him over here of course, but the guy gets it done. He has done for years with various journeymen before last season. That O-line hasn't always been great either. Sure he plays on a good team but then so do all the other QBs that win SBs. I dunno, the guy has a great record and might not be TEH ALL TIMEZ RECORDZ KINGER but yeah, he's gotta be up amongst the top 10 discussions by the time he retires. Could just be a side effect of the Belichick thing maybe or that he bangs hawt vimmin.

Also got something to do with the pretty-boy, dates the supermodel thing. Even in our quarterbacks, American men like to root for the butt-ugly, tough as nails football players, not the metrosexual pretty-boys that are also astronomically more successful than everyone else in their class. Hence, we hate Brady.

As far as Kelly and Favre, you can't compare them. First, I don't care who you are, leading a team to four straight Super Bowls, even without winning one, is a feat that requires some genuflection. Kelly's numbers are obviously not close to Brett's, but that's because he only played, what, 12 seasons? And he had a running game that was so good it took away from his numbers. Favre has really never had that in any of his Packer incarnations.

Plus, I hate to fall back on this, but the game was tremendously different in Kelly's time and Favre's. Defenses are quicker and more complex now. That cuts for Favre. Of course, offenses have more tools and more complex schemes now, cutting for Kelly.

I think the argument is tantamount to asking if Johnny U or Roger Staubach was better. There is no way of 'answering' the question, but it's fun as crap to debate.

For the record, my vote goes Kelly. Much more controlled QB. Much more poise. Favre is controlled chaos, which isn't necessarily bad.

[Ickey44]

My vote was for Marino. I know he didn't win any championships, but in my opinion nobody did as much with so little as Marino did. I don't think Marino had a 1000 yard rusher but maybe once in his entire tenure with the Dolphins while every other QB on that list had it almost every year. Marino completed passes when the defense knew he was going to throw the ball. Favre's had weapons of offense over the years. So did Kelly, Montana, and Elway (for the last few years of his career).

Anyway, that's my two cents....

[Pidge]

True enough. I like Kelly as a QB more and given the choice in the playground of who I'd like on my team it would be Jim. Plus he's a Cane so bonus points for him but as a 9 yr old when I watched him on late telly over here behind my parents' backs I didn't know about his association with my future alma mater.

Favre is erratic and I love watching games with him in them for that very reason. I dunno though, the Packers did win the thing. Had Kelly and the Bills just won one of them, I'd go for him over Favre without doubt.

Anyhoo, I don't think Favre is the best QB the Packers have ever had, nevermind the NFL. Oh to be as half as talented as him though. I'd settle for just a tenth of his wealth too.

/bitter

[gregstephens]

True enough. I like Kelly as a QB more and given the choice in the playground of who I'd like on my team it would be Jim. Plus he's a Cane so bonus points for him but as a 9 yr old when I watched him on late telly over here behind my parents' backs I didn't know about his association with my future alma mater.

Favre is erratic and I love watching games with him in them for that very reason. I dunno though, the Packers did win the thing. Had Kelly and the Bills just won one of them, I'd go for him over Favre without doubt.

Anyhoo, I don't think Favre is the best QB the Packers have ever had, nevermind the NFL. Oh to be as half as talented as him though. I'd settle for just a tenth of his wealth too.

/bitter

Yeah, but it fairness, you can blame that d@mn kicker for Kelly not winning at least one of those.

[Ickey44]

And as far as picking between Kelly and Favre, I think I'd go with Favre. Kelly was a damn good QB, but I think Favre is better and way more explosive. He can make things happen when a play breaks down. Kelly, not so much.

[Pidge]

Yeah, but it fairness, you can blame that d@mn kicker for Kelly not winning at least one of those.

I just have the "LACES OUT, DIE DAN!" image from Ace Ventura in my head now.

[Ickey44]

Wasn't that dude's name Scot Norwood? I wonder how he's treated in Buffalo now....

[gregstephens]

Wasn't that dude's name Scot Norwood? I wonder how he's treated in Buffalo now....

That's the guy. I'm pretty sure he gets the 'Bartman'.

[gregstephens]

Yeah, but it fairness, you can blame that d@mn kicker for Kelly not winning at least one of those.

I just have the "LACES OUT, DIE DAN!" image from Ace Ventura in my head now.

Excellent movie. I watched that after the first day of the bar exam. Everybody else stayed hunkered in their hotel rooms cramming wills and property, I sat in my bathtub for two hours (because my hotel had a tv in the bathroom) watching 'LACES OUT!'

[Wraith]

I'll go so far as to say that Boomer Esiason was a better QB:

Boomer: 37,920 Passing Yards 247 Passing TDs 81.1 QB Rating 184 INTs 1598 Rushing Yards 7 Rushing TDs

Kelly: 35,467 Passing Yards 237 Passing TDs 84.4 QB Rating 175 INTs 1049 Rushing Yards 7 Rushing TDs

Boomer threw for more yards, more TDs and rushed for more yards and perfected the no-huddle offense that Kelly used to his advantage. Boomer was the best play-action QB I have ever seen and Boomer did not have the luxury of having a Hall of Fame RB or a Hall of Fame DE.

[gregstephens]

I'll go so far as to say that Boomer Esiason was a better QB:

Boomer: 37,920 Passing Yards 247 Passing TDs 81.1 QB Rating 184 INTs 1598 Rushing Yards 7 Rushing TDs

Kelly: 35,467 Passing Yards 237 Passing TDs 84.4 QB Rating 175 INTs 1049 Rushing Yards 7 Rushing TDs

Boomer threw for more yards, more TDs and rushed for more yards and perfected the no-huddle offense that Kelly used to his advantage. Boomer was the best play-action QB I have ever seen and Boomer did not have the luxury of having a Hall of Fame RB or a Hall of Fame DE.

I will never debate against the greatness of Boomer and have been skewered on here for suggesting he's the best QB in Bengals' history (sorry Kenny Anderson). Boomer did have some good talent around him, though, with a fairly decent pack of runners, a good corps of receiver and an excellent TE.

Plus, Boomer played on a couple of bad Bengals teams, not to mention horrid Jets and Cardinals teams.

[HoTbOy]

I voted for JKelly, even though they never won a SB they still went 4 straight times, and alot of that was because of him...On the other list I voted for JMontana, what he did with the 49'ers speaks for itself, that drive that eneded in a JTaylor TD in the SB still hurts me to this day...

[derekshank]

Just to throw my two cents in on the QB debate... No one did more with less in his career than John Elway. He rarely had decent WR's, didn't have a decent RB his entire career prior to Terrell Davis, and still managed 148 career wins... most notably his 47 4th quarter come from behind wins.

Montana was a great QB who had amazing poise... but look at his weapons compared to Elway. If they change teams, I think Elway does a lot more. I think at one time he had the most rushes for a QB in NFL history (He might still have it). He was an amazing 5 star athlete who mixed that with intelligence and poise. It's rare to get two out of three of those (Montana had everything but the absolute raw athleticism). Elway had it all.

[rudi32]

Plus, I hate to fall back on this, but the game was tremendously different in Kelly's time and Favre's. Defenses are quicker and more complex now. That cuts for Favre. Of course, offenses have more tools and more complex schemes now, cutting for Kelly.

I think the argument is tantamount to asking if Johnny U or Roger Staubach was better. There is no way of 'answering' the question, but it's fun as crap to debate.

For the record, my vote goes Kelly. Much more controlled QB. Much more poise. Favre is controlled chaos, which isn't necessarily bad.

I don't buy into the argument that because Kelly played in a so-called simpler era, he had an inherent advantage. Consider rule changes. Most of Favre's career was played in an era where DB's have basically been prohibited from touching a receiver downfield. I think that helped to pad his stats, even though he did manage to throw more INTs than any other QB.

I'd go with Kelly too. His consistency over the years was amazing, especially considering the weather he had to play in at Buffalo. I know Favre played in the cold at Green Bay, but Buffalo had the cold and the wind coming across Lake Erie.

As for the comparison with Boomer, remember that Kelly two years tearing up the USFL. Per Wikipedia:

The Buffalo Bills selected Kelly in the first round of the 1983 NFL Draft, but because of the Bills having two back-to-back 2 and 14 seasons, poor attendance, and the cold weather, he instead signed with the Houston Gamblers of the rival United States Football League. In two seasons in Houston, running coach Mouse Davis' run-and-shot offense, he threw for 9,842 yards and 83 touchdowns, completing 63% with an average of 8.53 yards per attempt but with 45 interceptions. He was the USFL MVP in 1984, when he set a league record with 5,219 yards passing and 44 TD passes.