Ok enough with the Boycott stuff

[Spor_tees]

Ok I keep seeing all these threads about boycott this and boycott that. If there is a large enough group of true fans here, the best way to get anything done is simple. You use the media. The best thing we could do is organize a legal anti Mike Brown rally in downtown Cincinnati and invite every local newspaper, television station, and even inform ESPN about it. If you get a couple hundred organized people doing an anti-Mike Brown rally and it is covered in that many media outlets, it will get attention. Just a thought.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Ok I keep seeing all these threads about boycott this and boycott that. If there is a large enough group of true fans here, the best way to get anything done is simple. You use the media. The best thing we could do is organize a legal anti Mike Brown rally in downtown Cincinnati and invite every local newspaper, television station, and even inform ESPN about it. If you get a couple hundred organized people doing an anti-Mike Brown rally and it is covered in that many media outlets, it will get attention. Just a thought.

The most sane idea I've heard yet.

[gregstephens]

Ok I keep seeing all these threads about boycott this and boycott that. If there is a large enough group of true fans here, the best way to get anything done is simple. You use the media. The best thing we could do is organize a legal anti Mike Brown rally in downtown Cincinnati and invite every local newspaper, television station, and even inform ESPN about it. If you get a couple hundred organized people doing an anti-Mike Brown rally and it is covered in that many media outlets, it will get attention. Just a thought.

The most sane idea I've heard yet.

I agree. The whole 'everybody stop buying beer' thing just isn't going to work...on any level. I nominate Spor_tees as group organizer. I'll be there if at all possible and I got some low level connections at ESPN. I know Bill Hofheimer, their PR guy, and I might be able to get us on Erik Kuselias' Saturday radio show.

[preyer]

i'm pretty sure i already mentioned this in the other thread ~ it's the only plausible thing to do, really. it's a lock that it'll get ten seconds as filler material on some local t.v. station, given of course enough people rally around for support. i'll warn y'all, though, it takes real organization and a game plan of its own, i.e. it takes more than just putting the word out to a few people and hope for the best.

first of all, plan on it taking a lot of your time. something on the level of every waking minute while not working. imagine the co-ordination it takes for a (union) local to stage a strike. that's maybe a couple of thousand of people lead by a team of experienced union officials. now imagine doing this yourself with tens of thousands (or however many your goal is, and there should be a goal. indeed, expect it to snowball).

have your 'advertising' routes laid out in advance. go for local t.v. stations first, radio call ins, that kind of thing. i was involved in a strike (don't read that or anything else as i know how to do these things, these are just suggestions off the top of my head) that got resolved just before it turned into a national news blurb. contact the NFL channel and ESPN and ask them what criteria you'd have to meet to get some airtime. they may say get bent, they may give you a target to aim for, who knows. every way you can get the word out means more support... and more pressure on MB.

be professional. if you're not the voice of the protest, find the person who is. you or they have to have the answers to tough questions. know what you want to see happen and be reasonable. remember: you're the leader, so you can't cave in. nor can you let your daughter's recital get in the way if you have something to do. it has to be every day, every week, for several years perhaps. if you're not dedicated to it, don't start it. your appearance, overall mien, and quality of reason, not to mention how you convey that, is crucial. in essence, you're a politician.

have contingencies. for example, you have a huge rally planned on game day in the parking lot. here comes the cops and break it up. what do you do now? diffuse? bad idea. it shows how weak you are as a group and how poor you've strategized.

gather your information in packets for distribution. this tells people what your goals are and why you feel they're necessary. even union hand-outs, with all their errors in grammar, syntax, spelling and logic, tend to be rather brilliant propaganda tools. that's what these guys do for a living, but these aren't secrets and they work. this brings up another point: money. plan on spending lots of it. your cheapest article of propaganda, the hand-out, will be your most expensive overall. i would sell t-shirts with your movement's logo and slogan on them (a kind of 'down with brown' thing) and let people know this not only shows their support for the 'real' bengals but also helps defer the high cost of your own operations, such as permit fees, website costs and maintenance, petitions, paper and ink, phone calls and transportation, signs (if any), and whatever other expenditures you'll incur.

economic boycotts probably won't be terribly effective, but you should ask for that anyway. ask of your supporters not to buy junk in the stadium that day, then you might have some tangible results for your effort so when an interviewer asks you what you're doing, you can claim that. whether it's true or not doesn't really matter, you say it anyway. and be clear as to your intentions: you're not trying to destroy the bengals through economics, you're asking the season ticket holders to make a statement. you don't actually expect a non-season ticket holder not to buy a jersey for his son if it's the only game they'll attend in three years. however, season ticket holders (presuming they have PSLs) have paid a lot of money for their right to buy tickets, and you'd like, if nothing else, to protect your investment. remember, you can later re-sell these rights if you want to, and MB being so ineffective as owner is lowering the value of those seats. possibly plan on a day that season ticket holders meet outside the stadium yet don't attend the game itself. this clearly is your best bet to attract some major media attention...

...true, they can sell the tickets and fill the seats without season ticket holders being there. but, if the holders show up, where are these people going to park? sounds funny, but it's true. instead of a couple showing up together, ask them to drive separately. getting people to forego the game *and* spend extra money is asking a lot, but that's why you emphasize the future and the fact that ESPN is here paying particular attention to your cause. PBS holds about 65,000 ~ there aren't 65,000 spots for parking (any more than there are 65,000 PSL holders). you show up early, too, earlier than you do for any tailgaiting to beat the early birds. talk about chaos. claim that you can do this again if you have to, and you're sure it'll get easier every time.

call mike brown out for a debate every chance you can. always have the list of thousands of names of dissatisfied fans on the petition. seeing as how you paid a lot of money in taxes to help make him even richer, demand he invest in his own team (for example, an indoor training facility!). any facts you can dredge up that not everyone knows will help, things that go towards proving how cheap he is, even if he's paying less to beer shuckers than other teams. you have to illustrate how and why he's not good, then make the layman understand how he's being screwed in the process. have on queue the names of every ex-bengal who laughs at the way this organization is run and what they said as further inside evidence that things need changed, that you want your investments and implied promises protected, and that the voters of hamilton county just didn't pay out a lot of money for entertainment instead of investing in schools *which raises their property values, ya dinks!* call me crazy, but i'd rather pay more taxes because my house is in a great school system rather than making a rich man richer while paying a couple hundred people pennies for overcharging beer.

i probably haven't scratched the surface. the point is, if for all this determination, finanical hardship, public ridicule, threats, loss of personal lifestyle and stress sounds like a good way to improve the quality of how you spend a few hours on sunday, not to mention its high likelihood of dismal and embarrassing failure, i wish ye the best o' luck, paddy.

any takers?

[Ickey44]

Wow, for not having scratched the surface, you've sure put a lot of thought into this.

[preyer]

heh heh, seems so, doesn't it? but, i'm not an organizer and i'm sure there are a lot of legal issues involved i've not the slightest clue about. i am, however, a business owner and union member so i have a little experience regarding a few of these things. the rest is basically just putting a minute or two of thought into it. i always try to be a 'what's the most likely thing to happen' kind of person, and i realize the value of making a phone call to get information. for instance, news organizations need news to report, but you also have to provide news-worthy material for them. find out what it takes to get them interested, and you do that by calling them up, asking who to talk to, and talk to them. if you have an inside guy that can really help.

word of mouth is great advertising, but it's not nearly enough. you still have to invest the time and money, else i wouldn't have to pay a ridiculous amount of money for an ad in the yellow book every year. and you have to be able to close the deal when a potential customer calls or stops in. so when a potential protester asks what's up you have to be ready to lay it on and get them to participate. you shouldn't give this job to just any ol' person, either, rather the kind of person who's able to go door-to-door and ask for money for a charity (i used to do this... for a week. i sucked at it, but i've seen people who are amazing at it so i know it can be done). some people can look at you and immediately sum up what they need to say to appeal to the kind of person you are.

sounds silly? probably as silly as the old method of having a fast food crew hire an older woman, a motherly figure, as part of the staff. weird and pointless? someone didn't think so. they don't do that much today, of course, and when was the last time you got your money's worth on a consistent basis?

it's hard enough finding the right person for the job when you actually pay them, so imagine the challenge of finding the perfect person to volunteer. co-ordinating thousands of people in an effort to be effective is impossible for even an experience person to do on their own.

just some thoughts....

[walzav29]

The only protest should be for him to hire a GM. There is NO WAY he would sell the team. A protest is humiliating a little, but us hoping for him to sell is a waste of time. A GM though. That seems reasonable.

[Spor_tees]

The only protest should be for him to hire a GM. There is NO WAY he would sell the team. A protest is humiliating a little, but us hoping for him to sell is a waste of time. A GM though. That seems reasonable.

The key to success is to show how much of an embarrassment Mike Brown has made the Bengals look like and how it directly affects the NFL. You can draw even more attention to the fact Mike Brown is costing all the other owners in the NFL money by not putting a product on the field that is going to contribute financially to the collective bargaining agreement. The other NFL owners and the commissioner of the NFL do have a say on who can, and does own an NFL franchise. If you don't think something has been said to Mike Brown before, you are probably wrong. Think back until the year Marvin got hired...Mike Brown was getting a lot of visits from the Commissioner and negative press from other owners. If you were another NFL owner and you watched what Mike Brown has done over the past 15+ years wouldn't you start to get kinda pissed off? I mean when the Bengals come into your town, it's hard for you to sell out your stadium because who wants to watch a pathetic excuse for a team like the Bengals play? Part of every Sunday game is visiting teams fans that travel to watch their team...how many Bengals fans do you think are traveling to watch this team right now? If the NFL starts to see how fed up even people that are still Bengals fans are, who knows what can be accomplished. That is the main objective of anything and we all know it...this team will never change as long as Mike Brown has a say.

Worst case scenario, the Commissioner does what they did in Major League Baseball when they wanted to get rid of Marge Schott. The commissioner hired John Allen as GM for the Reds and gave him complete control to run the everyday operations of the team. I would be happy with something like that, but ultimately I want to see Mike Brown gone.

As for being the organizer, I have to decline. Being a cell phone salesperson I do not have the community clout that someone else might have. We would need someone that is a leader in the community, like a lawyer, doctor, policeman, etc. I am all for helping in any way I can, and I will make sure that I will be there, but I can't be the organizer of the event.

[preyer]

part of what my point is is that it's not a one-event proposition, it's a marathon you win by attrition.

demanding a GM, i think, would establish a lot of those needed things the bengals need, so i think that's probably your top priority. for instance, a GM will certainly put a real scouting team in place. i don't feel it's a 'worst case scenario' at all. in fact, i feel as if that's your main goal while keeping fantasy expectations out of it.

to reiterate, a one-time event won't accomplish much if anything. you have to be ghandi here, and just keep hammering away for as long as it takes. you're trying to crack a sherman tank with .22 calibre shells, so, yeah, it's a sustained attack kind of thing. any less and you're a footnote to an asterick to a trivia question. in my opinion, of course.

with miami's turnaround, maybe it won't be as hard. those guys have paved the way, especially if they win games.

[volcom69]

This team is already embarrising why not make it worse.

[damiancasey]

i'm pretty sure i already mentioned this in the other thread ~ it's the only plausible thing to do, really. it's a lock that it'll get ten seconds as filler material on some local t.v. station, given of course enough people rally around for support. i'll warn y'all, though, it takes real organization and a game plan of its own, i.e. it takes more than just putting the word out to a few people and hope for the best.

first of all, plan on it taking a lot of your time. something on the level of every waking minute while not working. imagine the co-ordination it takes for a (union) local to stage a strike. that's maybe a couple of thousand of people lead by a team of experienced union officials. now imagine doing this yourself with tens of thousands (or however many your goal is, and there should be a goal. indeed, expect it to snowball).

have your 'advertising' routes laid out in advance. go for local t.v. stations first, radio call ins, that kind of thing. i was involved in a strike (don't read that or anything else as i know how to do these things, these are just suggestions off the top of my head) that got resolved just before it turned into a national news blurb. contact the NFL channel and ESPN and ask them what criteria you'd have to meet to get some airtime. they may say get bent, they may give you a target to aim for, who knows. every way you can get the word out means more support... and more pressure on MB.

be professional. if you're not the voice of the protest, find the person who is. you or they have to have the answers to tough questions. know what you want to see happen and be reasonable. remember: you're the leader, so you can't cave in. nor can you let your daughter's recital get in the way if you have something to do. it has to be every day, every week, for several years perhaps. if you're not dedicated to it, don't start it. your appearance, overall mien, and quality of reason, not to mention how you convey that, is crucial. in essence, you're a politician.

have contingencies. for example, you have a huge rally planned on game day in the parking lot. here comes the cops and break it up. what do you do now? diffuse? bad idea. it shows how weak you are as a group and how poor you've strategized.

gather your information in packets for distribution. this tells people what your goals are and why you feel they're necessary. even union hand-outs, with all their errors in grammar, syntax, spelling and logic, tend to be rather brilliant propaganda tools. that's what these guys do for a living, but these aren't secrets and they work. this brings up another point: money. plan on spending lots of it. your cheapest article of propaganda, the hand-out, will be your most expensive overall. i would sell t-shirts with your movement's logo and slogan on them (a kind of 'down with brown' thing) and let people know this not only shows their support for the 'real' bengals but also helps defer the high cost of your own operations, such as permit fees, website costs and maintenance, petitions, paper and ink, phone calls and transportation, signs (if any), and whatever other expenditures you'll incur.

economic boycotts probably won't be terribly effective, but you should ask for that anyway. ask of your supporters not to buy junk in the stadium that day, then you might have some tangible results for your effort so when an interviewer asks you what you're doing, you can claim that. whether it's true or not doesn't really matter, you say it anyway. and be clear as to your intentions: you're not trying to destroy the bengals through economics, you're asking the season ticket holders to make a statement. you don't actually expect a non-season ticket holder not to buy a jersey for his son if it's the only game they'll attend in three years. however, season ticket holders (presuming they have PSLs) have paid a lot of money for their right to buy tickets, and you'd like, if nothing else, to protect your investment. remember, you can later re-sell these rights if you want to, and MB being so ineffective as owner is lowering the value of those seats. possibly plan on a day that season ticket holders meet outside the stadium yet don't attend the game itself. this clearly is your best bet to attract some major media attention...

...true, they can sell the tickets and fill the seats without season ticket holders being there. but, if the holders show up, where are these people going to park? sounds funny, but it's true. instead of a couple showing up together, ask them to drive separately. getting people to forego the game *and* spend extra money is asking a lot, but that's why you emphasize the future and the fact that ESPN is here paying particular attention to your cause. PBS holds about 65,000 ~ there aren't 65,000 spots for parking (any more than there are 65,000 PSL holders). you show up early, too, earlier than you do for any tailgaiting to beat the early birds. talk about chaos. claim that you can do this again if you have to, and you're sure it'll get easier every time.

call mike brown out for a debate every chance you can. always have the list of thousands of names of dissatisfied fans on the petition. seeing as how you paid a lot of money in taxes to help make him even richer, demand he invest in his own team (for example, an indoor training facility!). any facts you can dredge up that not everyone knows will help, things that go towards proving how cheap he is, even if he's paying less to beer shuckers than other teams. you have to illustrate how and why he's not good, then make the layman understand how he's being screwed in the process. have on queue the names of every ex-bengal who laughs at the way this organization is run and what they said as further inside evidence that things need changed, that you want your investments and implied promises protected, and that the voters of hamilton county just didn't pay out a lot of money for entertainment instead of investing in schools *which raises their property values, ya dinks!* call me crazy, but i'd rather pay more taxes because my house is in a great school system rather than making a rich man richer while paying a couple hundred people pennies for overcharging beer.

i probably haven't scratched the surface. the point is, if for all this determination, finanical hardship, public ridicule, threats, loss of personal lifestyle and stress sounds like a good way to improve the quality of how you spend a few hours on sunday, not to mention its high likelihood of dismal and embarrassing failure, i wish ye the best o' luck, paddy.

any takers?

wow - verbose - I'm sure there's some good stuff in here but my attention span just isn't this long...need some cliff notes

[gregstephens]

i'm pretty sure i already mentioned this in the other thread ~ it's the only plausible thing to do, really. it's a lock that it'll get ten seconds as filler material on some local t.v. station, given of course enough people rally around for support. i'll warn y'all, though, it takes real organization and a game plan of its own, i.e. it takes more than just putting the word out to a few people and hope for the best.

first of all, plan on it taking a lot of your time. something on the level of every waking minute while not working. imagine the co-ordination it takes for a (union) local to stage a strike. that's maybe a couple of thousand of people lead by a team of experienced union officials. now imagine doing this yourself with tens of thousands (or however many your goal is, and there should be a goal. indeed, expect it to snowball).

have your 'advertising' routes laid out in advance. go for local t.v. stations first, radio call ins, that kind of thing. i was involved in a strike (don't read that or anything else as i know how to do these things, these are just suggestions off the top of my head) that got resolved just before it turned into a national news blurb. contact the NFL channel and ESPN and ask them what criteria you'd have to meet to get some airtime. they may say get bent, they may give you a target to aim for, who knows. every way you can get the word out means more support... and more pressure on MB.

be professional. if you're not the voice of the protest, find the person who is. you or they have to have the answers to tough questions. know what you want to see happen and be reasonable. remember: you're the leader, so you can't cave in. nor can you let your daughter's recital get in the way if you have something to do. it has to be every day, every week, for several years perhaps. if you're not dedicated to it, don't start it. your appearance, overall mien, and quality of reason, not to mention how you convey that, is crucial. in essence, you're a politician.

have contingencies. for example, you have a huge rally planned on game day in the parking lot. here comes the cops and break it up. what do you do now? diffuse? bad idea. it shows how weak you are as a group and how poor you've strategized.

gather your information in packets for distribution. this tells people what your goals are and why you feel they're necessary. even union hand-outs, with all their errors in grammar, syntax, spelling and logic, tend to be rather brilliant propaganda tools. that's what these guys do for a living, but these aren't secrets and they work. this brings up another point: money. plan on spending lots of it. your cheapest article of propaganda, the hand-out, will be your most expensive overall. i would sell t-shirts with your movement's logo and slogan on them (a kind of 'down with brown' thing) and let people know this not only shows their support for the 'real' bengals but also helps defer the high cost of your own operations, such as permit fees, website costs and maintenance, petitions, paper and ink, phone calls and transportation, signs (if any), and whatever other expenditures you'll incur.

economic boycotts probably won't be terribly effective, but you should ask for that anyway. ask of your supporters not to buy junk in the stadium that day, then you might have some tangible results for your effort so when an interviewer asks you what you're doing, you can claim that. whether it's true or not doesn't really matter, you say it anyway. and be clear as to your intentions: you're not trying to destroy the bengals through economics, you're asking the season ticket holders to make a statement. you don't actually expect a non-season ticket holder not to buy a jersey for his son if it's the only game they'll attend in three years. however, season ticket holders (presuming they have PSLs) have paid a lot of money for their right to buy tickets, and you'd like, if nothing else, to protect your investment. remember, you can later re-sell these rights if you want to, and MB being so ineffective as owner is lowering the value of those seats. possibly plan on a day that season ticket holders meet outside the stadium yet don't attend the game itself. this clearly is your best bet to attract some major media attention...

...true, they can sell the tickets and fill the seats without season ticket holders being there. but, if the holders show up, where are these people going to park? sounds funny, but it's true. instead of a couple showing up together, ask them to drive separately. getting people to forego the game *and* spend extra money is asking a lot, but that's why you emphasize the future and the fact that ESPN is here paying particular attention to your cause. PBS holds about 65,000 ~ there aren't 65,000 spots for parking (any more than there are 65,000 PSL holders). you show up early, too, earlier than you do for any tailgaiting to beat the early birds. talk about chaos. claim that you can do this again if you have to, and you're sure it'll get easier every time.

call mike brown out for a debate every chance you can. always have the list of thousands of names of dissatisfied fans on the petition. seeing as how you paid a lot of money in taxes to help make him even richer, demand he invest in his own team (for example, an indoor training facility!). any facts you can dredge up that not everyone knows will help, things that go towards proving how cheap he is, even if he's paying less to beer shuckers than other teams. you have to illustrate how and why he's not good, then make the layman understand how he's being screwed in the process. have on queue the names of every ex-bengal who laughs at the way this organization is run and what they said as further inside evidence that things need changed, that you want your investments and implied promises protected, and that the voters of hamilton county just didn't pay out a lot of money for entertainment instead of investing in schools *which raises their property values, ya dinks!* call me crazy, but i'd rather pay more taxes because my house is in a great school system rather than making a rich man richer while paying a couple hundred people pennies for overcharging beer.

i probably haven't scratched the surface. the point is, if for all this determination, finanical hardship, public ridicule, threats, loss of personal lifestyle and stress sounds like a good way to improve the quality of how you spend a few hours on sunday, not to mention its high likelihood of dismal and embarrassing failure, i wish ye the best o' luck, paddy.

any takers?

wow - verbose - I'm sure there's some good stuff in here but my attention span just isn't this long...need some cliff notes

In summary--he wants everyone to not buy hotdogs and beer at the next home game (?).

[Spor_tees]

i'm pretty sure i already mentioned this in the other thread ~ it's the only plausible thing to do, really. it's a lock that it'll get ten seconds as filler material on some local t.v. station, given of course enough people rally around for support. i'll warn y'all, though, it takes real organization and a game plan of its own, i.e. it takes more than just putting the word out to a few people and hope for the best.

first of all, plan on it taking a lot of your time. something on the level of every waking minute while not working. imagine the co-ordination it takes for a (union) local to stage a strike. that's maybe a couple of thousand of people lead by a team of experienced union officials. now imagine doing this yourself with tens of thousands (or however many your goal is, and there should be a goal. indeed, expect it to snowball).

have your 'advertising' routes laid out in advance. go for local t.v. stations first, radio call ins, that kind of thing. i was involved in a strike (don't read that or anything else as i know how to do these things, these are just suggestions off the top of my head) that got resolved just before it turned into a national news blurb. contact the NFL channel and ESPN and ask them what criteria you'd have to meet to get some airtime. they may say get bent, they may give you a target to aim for, who knows. every way you can get the word out means more support... and more pressure on MB.

be professional. if you're not the voice of the protest, find the person who is. you or they have to have the answers to tough questions. know what you want to see happen and be reasonable. remember: you're the leader, so you can't cave in. nor can you let your daughter's recital get in the way if you have something to do. it has to be every day, every week, for several years perhaps. if you're not dedicated to it, don't start it. your appearance, overall mien, and quality of reason, not to mention how you convey that, is crucial. in essence, you're a politician.

have contingencies. for example, you have a huge rally planned on game day in the parking lot. here comes the cops and break it up. what do you do now? diffuse? bad idea. it shows how weak you are as a group and how poor you've strategized.

gather your information in packets for distribution. this tells people what your goals are and why you feel they're necessary. even union hand-outs, with all their errors in grammar, syntax, spelling and logic, tend to be rather brilliant propaganda tools. that's what these guys do for a living, but these aren't secrets and they work. this brings up another point: money. plan on spending lots of it. your cheapest article of propaganda, the hand-out, will be your most expensive overall. i would sell t-shirts with your movement's logo and slogan on them (a kind of 'down with brown' thing) and let people know this not only shows their support for the 'real' bengals but also helps defer the high cost of your own operations, such as permit fees, website costs and maintenance, petitions, paper and ink, phone calls and transportation, signs (if any), and whatever other expenditures you'll incur.

economic boycotts probably won't be terribly effective, but you should ask for that anyway. ask of your supporters not to buy junk in the stadium that day, then you might have some tangible results for your effort so when an interviewer asks you what you're doing, you can claim that. whether it's true or not doesn't really matter, you say it anyway. and be clear as to your intentions: you're not trying to destroy the bengals through economics, you're asking the season ticket holders to make a statement. you don't actually expect a non-season ticket holder not to buy a jersey for his son if it's the only game they'll attend in three years. however, season ticket holders (presuming they have PSLs) have paid a lot of money for their right to buy tickets, and you'd like, if nothing else, to protect your investment. remember, you can later re-sell these rights if you want to, and MB being so ineffective as owner is lowering the value of those seats. possibly plan on a day that season ticket holders meet outside the stadium yet don't attend the game itself. this clearly is your best bet to attract some major media attention...

...true, they can sell the tickets and fill the seats without season ticket holders being there. but, if the holders show up, where are these people going to park? sounds funny, but it's true. instead of a couple showing up together, ask them to drive separately. getting people to forego the game *and* spend extra money is asking a lot, but that's why you emphasize the future and the fact that ESPN is here paying particular attention to your cause. PBS holds about 65,000 ~ there aren't 65,000 spots for parking (any more than there are 65,000 PSL holders). you show up early, too, earlier than you do for any tailgaiting to beat the early birds. talk about chaos. claim that you can do this again if you have to, and you're sure it'll get easier every time.

call mike brown out for a debate every chance you can. always have the list of thousands of names of dissatisfied fans on the petition. seeing as how you paid a lot of money in taxes to help make him even richer, demand he invest in his own team (for example, an indoor training facility!). any facts you can dredge up that not everyone knows will help, things that go towards proving how cheap he is, even if he's paying less to beer shuckers than other teams. you have to illustrate how and why he's not good, then make the layman understand how he's being screwed in the process. have on queue the names of every ex-bengal who laughs at the way this organization is run and what they said as further inside evidence that things need changed, that you want your investments and implied promises protected, and that the voters of hamilton county just didn't pay out a lot of money for entertainment instead of investing in schools *which raises their property values, ya dinks!* call me crazy, but i'd rather pay more taxes because my house is in a great school system rather than making a rich man richer while paying a couple hundred people pennies for overcharging beer.

i probably haven't scratched the surface. the point is, if for all this determination, finanical hardship, public ridicule, threats, loss of personal lifestyle and stress sounds like a good way to improve the quality of how you spend a few hours on sunday, not to mention its high likelihood of dismal and embarrassing failure, i wish ye the best o' luck, paddy.

any takers?

wow - verbose - I'm sure there's some good stuff in here but my attention span just isn't this long...need some cliff notes

In summary--he wants everyone to not buy hotdogs and beer at the next home game (?).

Here is the problem with that...first off if you pay to go to a game, you want to enjoy yourself. Secondly, a lot of the people that work there get paid according to how much they sell. So in a sense you aren't really hurting Mike Brown, you are hurting your fellow hard working man/woman. If someone wants to step up and do that anti-Mike Brown rally I am all for helping with that, but I am not in the camp that recommends not enjoying yourself at the game thinking that is going to make a difference. In this day and age the only thing that makes a difference is negative publicity and media exposure. If you get a LEGAL demonstration in downtown Cincinnati during lunch hour on say a Friday afternoon, you are going to get a TON of exposure. Do you really think that Roger Goddell is going to ignore something like that if it is televised on a media outlet like ESPN? Eventually people are going to take notice. Just my 2 cents...with the economy it might only be worth 1 and a half cents by tomorrow.

[combatbengal]

Not trying to be negative, but s protest with the media won't work. The team has been in the newspapers, radio news, TV news, etc, and nothing has changed. All these sources have made recommendations to trading or cut players, firing coaches, hiring a GM, getting rid of MB, etc. Bottom line, Bengals organization don't care what's being said or written about them. They cash their pay checks every week and smile! The only thing that will affect this organization is to hit them where it hurts. That area involves the check book, and wallets of the higher echelon running the organization. I’m no financial expert and have no course of action to take. They’ve sold out the stadium this year, people continue to purchase Bengal merchandise, they continue to pay for food and beverages at the games, etc.

[preyer]

there are certainly different ways to look at it.

no one wants to hurt our fellow working man living on commission. even if they really only do put in one day of real work in a week (i work 14+ hours a day between my business and my day job building military humvee engines, so it's tough to dredge up much sympathy for guys schlocking overpriced novelties for a couple of hours every now and then between probably the herculean task of maintaining a website and/or standing behind a cash register.). i'm sure these guys have other avenues of compensation other than living off their wages made during *only* game day at home. and if they can make enough to last them the entire year just by doing that for half the year, well, more power to 'em, i guess, but, yeah, i'll not be shedding tears of pain just because they might have to get a second job. i don't believe this is the case at all, but if they can make a living off of this *only* selling bengals merchandise during the season then i'd say they make an inordinate amount of money for their skill set of having basically to order merchandise from a supplier getting it from china or some third world sh!thole and making change.

(that said, i know people who do t-shirts and high school jerseys make about 75% of their money in one month's time. that is if they're lucky to get the job these days: there's always some dumb ass new to the process who thinks they're actually saving time and money ordering online. but, that's opposite ends of the same field as stadium retailers are purely middlemen and price-gouging. shutting one of them down most likely means they'll have to step up another outlet. in other words, i question whether or not we're hurting anyone other than an employee making a bit more than minimum wage who could just as easily work somewhere else. and for those people living on commission know to plan for bad times. besides, think of how much more they might sell if the bengals actually won games.)

i'm not sure who else other than the retailers you're talking about might be put out. you mentioned the economy, so i would hope people have more sense than to buy a bunch of crap right now in the first place. i'd wager those retailers have felt the pinch themselves. someone selling beer and hotdogs aren't on a sliding wage scale, only people who make tips, like waitresses and pole dancers, and commission don't have to be paid minimum wage (people like hairdressers rent their booths and, unless i'm mistaken, are considered largely self-employed. hm, i'll have to ask my wife about that...). besides, people don't care about economic theory else they wouldn't buy foreign cars they way they do. drive around cincy for a bit and you'd think there wasn't a chevy dealership around for a hundred miles.

who specifically would be hurt, spor?

of course people want to go their to enjoy themselves. that's the problem. someone who says they can't afford a couple of bucks for a protest probably shouldn't be going to football games in the first place. if a person can't (and they typically won't unless you point it out to them) see that they can participate in a once in a lifetime event and be a part of something with potential to change your entertainment forever, then you all you can do is wish them a good day, enjoy being so selfish and narrow-minded that they can't grasp the significance of being in a singular event, and be sure to buy plenty of crap made in china from a vendor. maybe you'll see them in wal*mart further ruining the economy. (i'm not a fan of the wally world cult.)

the problem with a friday protest is people have to work. to top it off, people are lazy. you work hard through the week, and the last thing you want to do is walk a picket line in the cold. *that's* not fun. whatever pitiful protest most anyone could concoct is practically dead before it gets out of the gate. people want to spend their time having fun. after all, football is just entertainment.

sure, media exposure works, that's the entire point. but don't dismiss the power of an economic boycott, either. like i said, when it comes to economic boycott it's a war of attrition ~ who can stand it the longest? an economic boycott most assuredly will fail only because people have no solidarity: there are always just enough people to attend games and buy junk to support the enemy. i swear, were we at war with japan people would still buy toyotas. they idea behind not attending the game is to create media awareness, to let people know you're mad as hell and aren't going to take it anymore.

what's MB's incentive for changing things? people still buy junk (and don't think that he doesn't care if beer sales drop 50%, either) and go to games, and other than a bunch of people on the internut crying about how bad things are STILL goes to the game and buys junk. no NFL team to my knowledge has ever faced an organized, prolonged protest, and MB doesn't expect one now. i promise this: were he to face this, he'd handle it the same way he handles his team ~ poorly.

sorry for being so verbose, but if you want real opinions, then there they are.

[Spor_tees]

there are certainly different ways to look at it.

no one wants to hurt our fellow working man living on commission. even if they really only do put in one day of real work in a week (i work 14+ hours a day between my business and my day job building military humvee engines, so it's tough to dredge up much sympathy for guys schlocking overpriced novelties for a couple of hours every now and then between probably the herculean task of maintaining a website and/or standing behind a cash register.). i'm sure these guys have other avenues of compensation other than living off their wages made during *only* game day at home. and if they can make enough to last them the entire year just by doing that for half the year, well, more power to 'em, i guess, but, yeah, i'll not be shedding tears of pain just because they might have to get a second job. i don't believe this is the case at all, but if they can make a living off of this *only* selling bengals merchandise during the season then i'd say they make an inordinate amount of money for their skill set of having basically to order merchandise from a supplier getting it from china or some third world sh!thole and making change.

(that said, i know people who do t-shirts and high school jerseys make about 75% of their money in one month's time. that is if they're lucky to get the job these days: there's always some dumb ass new to the process who thinks they're actually saving time and money ordering online. but, that's opposite ends of the same field as stadium retailers are purely middlemen and price-gouging. shutting one of them down most likely means they'll have to step up another outlet. in other words, i question whether or not we're hurting anyone other than an employee making a bit more than minimum wage who could just as easily work somewhere else. and for those people living on commission know to plan for bad times. besides, think of how much more they might sell if the bengals actually won games.)

i'm not sure who else other than the retailers you're talking about might be put out. you mentioned the economy, so i would hope people have more sense than to buy a bunch of crap right now in the first place. i'd wager those retailers have felt the pinch themselves. someone selling beer and hotdogs aren't on a sliding wage scale, only people who make tips, like waitresses and pole dancers, and commission don't have to be paid minimum wage (people like hairdressers rent their booths and, unless i'm mistaken, are considered largely self-employed. hm, i'll have to ask my wife about that...). besides, people don't care about economic theory else they wouldn't buy foreign cars they way they do. drive around cincy for a bit and you'd think there wasn't a chevy dealership around for a hundred miles.

who specifically would be hurt, spor?

of course people want to go their to enjoy themselves. that's the problem. someone who says they can't afford a couple of bucks for a protest probably shouldn't be going to football games in the first place. if a person can't (and they typically won't unless you point it out to them) see that they can participate in a once in a lifetime event and be a part of something with potential to change your entertainment forever, then you all you can do is wish them a good day, enjoy being so selfish and narrow-minded that they can't grasp the significance of being in a singular event, and be sure to buy plenty of crap made in china from a vendor. maybe you'll see them in wal*mart further ruining the economy. (i'm not a fan of the wally world cult.)

the problem with a friday protest is people have to work. to top it off, people are lazy. you work hard through the week, and the last thing you want to do is walk a picket line in the cold. *that's* not fun. whatever pitiful protest most anyone could concoct is practically dead before it gets out of the gate. people want to spend their time having fun. after all, football is just entertainment.

sure, media exposure works, that's the entire point. but don't dismiss the power of an economic boycott, either. like i said, when it comes to economic boycott it's a war of attrition ~ who can stand it the longest? an economic boycott most assuredly will fail only because people have no solidarity: there are always just enough people to attend games and buy junk to support the enemy. i swear, were we at war with japan people would still buy toyotas. they idea behind not attending the game is to create media awareness, to let people know you're mad as hell and aren't going to take it anymore.

what's MB's incentive for changing things? people still buy junk (and don't think that he doesn't care if beer sales drop 50%, either) and go to games, and other than a bunch of people on the internut crying about how bad things are STILL goes to the game and buys junk. no NFL team to my knowledge has ever faced an organized, prolonged protest, and MB doesn't expect one now. i promise this: were he to face this, he'd handle it the same way he handles his team ~ poorly.

sorry for being so verbose, but if you want real opinions, then there they are.

Do you know anyone that works at a stadium selling food and beverages? Why do you automatically assume they only work one day per week only at home games and are able to make enough money for the entire year!? VERY VERY bad assumptions on your part. First off it isn't an easy job to carry all that crap up and down stairs all game long. If you think that is an easy, cushy job, you're wrong. Secondly they do not make enough money doing this to take off the rest of the week, or the rest of the year for that matter. Most, that being the ones with a family and the responsibilities of paying bills, work another full-time job. I don't know about the rest of the board, but your long post that usually consist of at least 2 paragraphs or more tooting your own horn about working a job and running a business are getting old. If you are passionate about the Bengals and want to let others know about it, that's great! Now on the other hand, if you want to keep telling us about yourself and how we should do this and do that, please chill out, because you have done that enough. And if you think that my comment, "Just my 2 cents...with the economy it might only be worth 1 and a half cents by tomorrow," was me bringing up the economy as part of this discussion you are once again wrong. I guess it was a lame attempt at humor that you decided to use once again to lengthen your very long post.

[gregstephens]

there are certainly different ways to look at it.

no one wants to hurt our fellow working man living on commission. even if they really only do put in one day of real work in a week (i work 14+ hours a day between my business and my day job building military humvee engines, so it's tough to dredge up much sympathy for guys schlocking overpriced novelties for a couple of hours every now and then between probably the herculean task of maintaining a website and/or standing behind a cash register.). i'm sure these guys have other avenues of compensation other than living off their wages made during *only* game day at home. and if they can make enough to last them the entire year just by doing that for half the year, well, more power to 'em, i guess, but, yeah, i'll not be shedding tears of pain just because they might have to get a second job. i don't believe this is the case at all, but if they can make a living off of this *only* selling bengals merchandise during the season then i'd say they make an inordinate amount of money for their skill set of having basically to order merchandise from a supplier getting it from china or some third world sh!thole and making change.

(that said, i know people who do t-shirts and high school jerseys make about 75% of their money in one month's time. that is if they're lucky to get the job these days: there's always some dumb ass new to the process who thinks they're actually saving time and money ordering online. but, that's opposite ends of the same field as stadium retailers are purely middlemen and price-gouging. shutting one of them down most likely means they'll have to step up another outlet. in other words, i question whether or not we're hurting anyone other than an employee making a bit more than minimum wage who could just as easily work somewhere else. and for those people living on commission know to plan for bad times. besides, think of how much more they might sell if the bengals actually won games.)

i'm not sure who else other than the retailers you're talking about might be put out. you mentioned the economy, so i would hope people have more sense than to buy a bunch of crap right now in the first place. i'd wager those retailers have felt the pinch themselves. someone selling beer and hotdogs aren't on a sliding wage scale, only people who make tips, like waitresses and pole dancers, and commission don't have to be paid minimum wage (people like hairdressers rent their booths and, unless i'm mistaken, are considered largely self-employed. hm, i'll have to ask my wife about that...). besides, people don't care about economic theory else they wouldn't buy foreign cars they way they do. drive around cincy for a bit and you'd think there wasn't a chevy dealership around for a hundred miles.

who specifically would be hurt, spor?

of course people want to go their to enjoy themselves. that's the problem. someone who says they can't afford a couple of bucks for a protest probably shouldn't be going to football games in the first place. if a person can't (and they typically won't unless you point it out to them) see that they can participate in a once in a lifetime event and be a part of something with potential to change your entertainment forever, then you all you can do is wish them a good day, enjoy being so selfish and narrow-minded that they can't grasp the significance of being in a singular event, and be sure to buy plenty of crap made in china from a vendor. maybe you'll see them in wal*mart further ruining the economy. (i'm not a fan of the wally world cult.)

the problem with a friday protest is people have to work. to top it off, people are lazy. you work hard through the week, and the last thing you want to do is walk a picket line in the cold. *that's* not fun. whatever pitiful protest most anyone could concoct is practically dead before it gets out of the gate. people want to spend their time having fun. after all, football is just entertainment.

sure, media exposure works, that's the entire point. but don't dismiss the power of an economic boycott, either. like i said, when it comes to economic boycott it's a war of attrition ~ who can stand it the longest? an economic boycott most assuredly will fail only because people have no solidarity: there are always just enough people to attend games and buy junk to support the enemy. i swear, were we at war with japan people would still buy toyotas. they idea behind not attending the game is to create media awareness, to let people know you're mad as hell and aren't going to take it anymore.

what's MB's incentive for changing things? people still buy junk (and don't think that he doesn't care if beer sales drop 50%, either) and go to games, and other than a bunch of people on the internut crying about how bad things are STILL goes to the game and buys junk. no NFL team to my knowledge has ever faced an organized, prolonged protest, and MB doesn't expect one now. i promise this: were he to face this, he'd handle it the same way he handles his team ~ poorly.

sorry for being so verbose, but if you want real opinions, then there they are.

Do you know anyone that works at a stadium selling food and beverages? Why do you automatically assume they only work one day per week only at home games and are able to make enough money for the entire year!? VERY VERY bad assumptions on your part. First off it isn't an easy job to carry all that crap up and down stairs all game long. If you think that is an easy, cushy job, you're wrong. Secondly they do not make enough money doing this to take off the rest of the week, or the rest of the year for that matter. Most, that being the ones with a family and the responsibilities of paying bills, work another full-time job. I don't know about the rest of the board, but your long post that usually consist of at least 2 paragraphs or more tooting your own horn about working a job and running a business are getting old. If you are passionate about the Bengals and want to let others know about it, that's great! Now on the other hand, if you want to keep telling us about yourself and how we should do this and do that, please chill out, because you have done that enough. And if you think that my comment, "Just my 2 cents...with the economy it might only be worth 1 and a half cents by tomorrow," was me bringing up the economy as part of this discussion you are once again wrong. I guess it was a lame attempt at humor that you decided to use once again to lengthen your very long post.

Dude, you've actually been reading his posts??!

Seriously, let's all chill here. No one is boycotting anything. We are all Bengals' fans, which means by nature, we take it up the rear. Thanks again, SoP.

[preyer]

i write long posts.

maybe i didn't make myself clear or you missed what i was saying: i wasn't saying people who sell beer work one day a week, i was talking about the retailers in an attempt to make sense of your claim that regular hard-working joes are the ones being hurt. the people who get paid based on their sales are not the beer and hotdog concession workers, to say they'd be hurt somehow is silly. the entire idea of a sliding wage scale applies to vendors of jerseys and such, no? adn even then it's the booth 'owners,' not the actual workers. if others are involved, who are they?

to even imagine a hotdog vendor makes enough money in a few days to support himself for the rest of the year is utterly laughable and not what i meant at all ~ in fact, i'm not sure where you even made that leap. i don't think i made many, if any, bad assumptions. the most arguable one, imo, is how much they get paid: i said a bit over minimum wage, but it's probably closer to $9/hr.. considering urban areas are generally more expensive, i'd say this is close to their real minimum. i don't know about you, but where i live, in a dayton suburb, a living wage is at least $15 hr., and that's with costs relatively low. right now your gas prices are about 35 cents a gallon more than mine.

look, i don't know how people who sell hotdogs support themselves, just that i find it hard to believe they can work a day or two a week and survive like that. it's not as if PBS has events every day. what you say about them having another full-time job is exactly what i was saying, and i think it's goofy to villify protesters who would 'hurt' part-timers certainly able to work a different part-time job. these are not people who work on commission as if they were carnival barkers. no need to tell me how hard what they do is, my wife and i own a convenience store and trophy/awards shop ~ don't you think i might have some better insight into retail than the average person? should i *not* bring that up?

it seems as if we pretty much agree on the surface details here. except that i attempt to add some of my reasoning which unfortunately takes up space.

i bring my work into the discussion when i feel it's appropriate, as i did above. i'm not sure where i've bombarded people with my schedule, but if i did then i have to apologize for that.

i'm not trying to tell people how to think or feel. it's my opinion (i constantly say 'i think' or 'i feel,' etc.), i think i took the time to illustrate my viewpoint, and i invite a discussion. as far as the current discussion, seeing as how i earlier said the same thing as the OP did and didn't get a response, i wanted to elaborate on that to the best of my ability. agree or not, i hope at least it's food for thought the next time someone comes up with a boycott/protest idea. i've added thoughts and ideas based on observation and having *some* relatable side experience around these things. i defer to those with more experience, i'll cede a point when i'm wrong.

since you mentioned the economy, what i'd not thought to have brought up otherwise, i went with it. no, i know you weren't making some statement and i didn't think it was particularly lame. what's lame is saying 'i'm spor tees and i approve this message.'

i'm preyer and i approve this message.

[preyer]

'Dude, you've actually been reading his posts??!'

no doubt. i write these things for posterity. and, of course, to further my nefarioius goals.

just that if anyone actually ever *was* serious, well, there ya go, this is the thread to check out, eh?