Does Justin Smith Suck?

[walzav29]

There was an article on CBS Sportsline and it was talking about the draft 3 years ago. Here is what was said about misses.

"Who wishes they could do it all over again in that first round: Green Bay (Jamal Reynolds), Cleveland (Gerard Warren), Cincinnati (Justin Smith), Chicago (David Terrell), Tampa Bay (Kenyatta Walker), Denver (Willie Middlebrooks), Oakland (Derrick Gibson), St. Louis (Damione Lewis and Ryan Pickett), Miami (Jamar Fletcher)."

Smith is not a big sacker, but he is one of the few guys that have remained a starter on that defense, so the question is. Is Smith a bust or not?

[BengalszoneBilly]

I wouldn't say "bust", but I would say he hasn't reached the level of play that the team and fans thought he would! This may be his year to prove his worth, or Marvin may kick him to the curb!

[Kirkendall]

I wouldn't say "bust", but I would say he hasn't reached the level of play that the team and fans thought he would! This may be his year to prove his worth, or Marvin may kick him to the curb!

I agree Billy.

[Barbarian]

I'm saying BUSTOLA!!! You would think that a guy selected as a 3rd pick overall would get more than 3 sacks a year.

The guy has one move and no technique.

However, at least Justin Smith has SOME production. How about Cleveland's gem of a pick--Gerard Warren??? YIKES.

Or even better--how about Tampa's pick of Kenyatta Walker??? This guy has sucked for the Bucs from day 1, training camp. He's got a real s**tty attitude as well. For as big as Walker is--he plays like a little girl.

[The Brew Man]

Im not ready to call him a bust yet, but he certainly has underachieved. Not sure what to blame it on. I give him the benefit of the doubt though for at least one more season. :player:

[Jam31]

Ill take him if you dont want him

[Zilla]

With some help on the D line this year, he will have a monster year! Every game I watched last year, he gets doubled every play, and still put pressure on.

Breakout year upcomming.

[Kirkendall]

With some help on the D line this year, he will have a monster year! Every game I watched last year, he gets doubled every play, and still put pressure on.

Breakout year upcomming.

That's what I thought about the '03 season signing all of the DL in the off-season. I hope you're right

[Scottishbengal]

But didn't he set the Bengals record for sacks in a rookie season with 8.1/2 (or was it 9.1/2?).

Anyway, for some rookie to come in and set a record shows there must be some talent there. Perhaps it been negated by the system/position he's being asked to play.

[Bobcat Bengal]

I don't know about that...but I'll tell you this much...

he definitely wasn't worth a 4th overall pick....

[chrishcovga]

Well being the Draft guy that I am, in 2001 I felt we should have drafted Richard Seymour over Justin Smith.

* The knock on Smith was his short arms! Hard to create separation or get leverage on any tackle when you're already in his chest!

I also don't think he's a bust either! Considering the fact that '01 former first rounder Kenyatta Walker a guy that Smith had 3 sacks against in his rookie year will be released next week (June-1st), should say something.

- With the additions to the D-line, and Hardy back to the Strong Side, Smith should have more one on one opportunities.

[turningpoint]

um calling justin smith a bust is completely retarded.

look at the #1 pick that year, it was MIcheal Vick he was supposed to be that good why the falcons gave up so much for him.

the #2 pick Lenord Davis was drafted to be a tackle, but was way to fat and slow to play that position, so now he's a gaurd, but no way a gaurd is worth a #2 overall pick. He hasn't even made the probowl, albiet he is in arizona though.

The #3 pick gerrard " the retard" Warren hasn't done a f**king thing. btw look up definition of a bust he's it.

NOw Smith he would of been defensive rookie of the year, if he signed during training camp and actually played all 16 games. He had 2 ints and 8.5 sacks in 14 games. not to mention has been a great contributor when it comes to drawing double teams, and offensive holding.

#5 LT, ok fine he lived up to potential, but RB's usually aren't bust when drafted this hi ( f**k kijana).

#6 Richard seyour..... ok maybe we should have drafted him.

#7 Andre Carter really hasn't done all that much, probably the best comparision you can make to justin smith. he has 25.5 sacks and 111 tackles.

while smith has come up with 20 sacks and 149 tackles, not to mention 2 ints, and he's a better run stuffer.

[HoosierCat]

Justin Smith is not a bust by any stretch of the imagnation. I don't have time to go dig up all the numbers (again!) today but if you go compare his first three seasons with those of the first three seasons of top DEs around the league, he stacks up very well. And that's even more impressive considering that the rest of the line has been sub-par for most of his time here.

[JPW]

I'm saying BUSTOLA!!!  You would think that a guy selected as a 3rd pick overall would get more than 3 sacks a year.

Smith started the last 11 games and set a Bengals rookie RECORD with 8.5 sacks in 2001...

Smith led the team with 6.5 sacks in 2002.....

Smith was 1 sack behind the team leader with 5 sacks in 2003....

"His 15 sacks over his first two Bengals seasons were the most by any Bengal in his first two Cincinnati campaigns since 1976-77.

He also led the defensive line in tackles for the second consecutive season and was on the field for 95.5 percent of the plays in 2002."

"In 2003 Defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier wanted to keep their sacks leader on the sideline more often, keeping him fresh for late in the game.

In his first two seasons, Smith developed a reputation as one of the Bengals' most active players. Smith also has been one of the leaders in the weight room. He's not one to ease up -- or stand and watch.

He's a very intense guy. To stand on the sideline is foreign to him."

Smith is not the type of player who needs to be rested a lot.

The "keep him fresh for late in the game" idea did not work out all that well in 2003.

And ML has already indicated that he is expecting Good things from Smith in 2004 and hinted that will be on the field more this year.

Justin Smith is no "BUSTOLA".

Where did you get 3 sacks a year ?

Looks more like 7 Sacks a year to me.

He may not have reached the level of play that was hoped for yet, but he has been productive.

And don't forget, he came out a year early, he is only 24 years old.

The guy still has a big up-side.

He will benifit from the improvement that we will see across the rest of the DL this year.

Teams will not be able to double him as much.

I agree will ML and am looking for a Big year for him.

BTW I believe that he was the 4TH pick over-all not the 3RD.

Play Offs in 04....

[Barbarian]

I'm saying BUSTOLA!!!  You would think that a guy selected as a 3rd pick overall would get more than 3 sacks a year.

Smith started the last 11 games and set a Bengals rookie RECORD with 8.5 sacks in 2001...

Smith led the team with 6.5 sacks in 2002.....

Smith was 1 sack behind the team leader with 5 sacks in 2003....

"His 15 sacks over his first two Bengals seasons were the most by any Bengal in his first two Cincinnati campaigns since 1976-77.

He also led the defensive line in tackles for the second consecutive season and was on the field for 95.5 percent of the plays in 2002."

"In 2003 Defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier wanted to keep their sacks leader on the sideline more often, keeping him fresh for late in the game.

In his first two seasons, Smith developed a reputation as one of the Bengals' most active players. Smith also has been one of the leaders in the weight room. He's not one to ease up -- or stand and watch.

He's a very intense guy. To stand on the sideline is foreign to him."

Smith is not the type of player who needs to be rested a lot.

The "keep him fresh for late in the game" idea did not work out all that well in 2003.

And ML has already indicated that he is expecting Good things from Smith in 2004 and hinted that will be on the field more this year.

Justin Smith is no "BUSTOLA".

Where did you get 3 sacks a year ?

Looks more like 7 Sacks a year to me.

He may not have reached the level of play that was hoped for yet, but he has been productive.

And don't forget, he came out a year early, he is only 24 years old.

The guy still has a big up-side.

He will benifit from the improvement that we will see across the rest of the DL this year.

Teams will not be able to double him as much.

I agree will ML and am looking for a Big year for him.

BTW I believe that he was the 4TH pick over-all not the 3RD.

Play Offs in 04....

JPW--you quoted me. The quote was AN EXAGGERATION. See, I'm lazy. I relax while you stat nerds pick that s**t up for me.

And explain Smith's drop off in production numbers from when he was a rookie???

Usually, as you gain experience, you get BETTER, right???

To me--the dropoff in production numbers (sacks) means to me that Justin Smith (like I said before) has one move and no technique. And Offensive Linemen around the league figured it out.

I would also say that Justin Smith's DEVELOPMENT has plateau'ed. Meaning his DL coaching sucks. That would also explain the lack of a pass rush or lack of sack production from the DL?!?!?!?!

"He may not have reached the level of play that was hoped for yet, but he has been productive."

Yep. And I stated this in the first post. Then I labelled all the absolute busts in that draft. Maybe you should go back and read my original post instead of jumping to other conclusions???

[JPW]

I'm saying BUSTOLA!!!  You would think that a guy selected as a 3rd pick overall would get more than 3 sacks a year.

The guy has one move and no technique.

However, at least Justin Smith has SOME production.  How about Cleveland's gem of a pick--Gerard Warren???  YIKES.

Or even better--how about Tampa's pick of Kenyatta Walker???  This guy has sucked for the Bucs from day 1, training camp.  He's got a real s**tty attitude as well.  For as big as Walker is--he plays like a little girl.

I did read your whole post Barbarian.

Saying that Smith did have "SOME" production does not mean much, once you have already Labeled him as a "BUSTOLA".

The fact is, neither statement is true.

Seven Sacks a year is not bad at all, and "SOME" (as in very little) production is not a fair description of the man's career so far.

As for Tampa's pick and the Buc's pick, I could care less.

So I didn't bother to quote that part of your post.

As for you question: "And explain Smith's drop off in production numbers from when he was a rookie???"

1) Maybe being double teamed on most every play since his 2nd year ?

2) Maybe not being IN the game as much last year, "In 2003 Defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier wanted to keep their sacks leader on the sideline more often, keeping him fresh for late in the game." ?

As for your statement concerning the Bengals Coaching Staff: "I would also say that Justin Smith's DEVELOPMENT has plateau'ed. Meaning his DL coaching sucks. That would also explain the lack of a pass rush or lack of sack production from the DL?!?!?!?!"

1) I will take a pass, on rendering my judgement on the Bengals Coaching Staff, I am sure that you can find enough wrong with them for all of us.

2) I will trust ML's judgement to right anything that might be lacking with his Coaching Staff.

Play Offs in 04....

[Northwest Bengal]

Kind of hard to build your sack production when the other team is running it up your interior line's gut with only token resistance! What are you trashers of Smith looking at? The guy is the total package! He definitely has a spin AND a swim so I don't have a clue what you guys talking about one move being all he has?! Put a true penetrating DT next to him and you've got an irrefutable star! Terrific player!

[Kirkendall]

While I'm not willing to call him either a bust or an all-star but reflect on this, whom could we have had in the first round of that less than good draft?

Was he worth a 4th round pick? Well LaDainian Tomlinson, Deuce McAllister, Kenyatta Walker and Todd Heap suggest otherwise. In otherwords, we didn't miss much picking Smith a tthat slot. We could have Tomlinson or McAllister, but everyone agrees our RB situation is just fine, and was fine at the time. We could have had Heap, and boy I wouldn't mind having him, but we have the TEs that we need with the offense we use. We could have had Walker, but I'm sure everyone also agrees that Jones and Anderson are more than suitable.

Smith has made some big plays to stop key drives during games in which we won. This is essential for a successful defense.

However, in games we've lost, his side has given up big yards per carry; not saying he's the reason, but he didn't prevent it either.

[schweinhart]

Kind of hard to build your sack production when the other team is running it up your interior line's gut with only token resistance! What are you trashers of Smith looking at? The guy is the total package! He definitely has a spin AND a swim so I don't have a clue what you guys talking about one move being all he has?! Put a true penetrating DT next to him and you've got an irrefutable star! Terrific player!

Exactly. Smith is all over the place. When they talk about NFL fast, he's it.

If anybody hasn't lived up to their billing, it's Thornton.

[BENGALTHEM]

Justin Smith is not a bust, in fact he is are best defensivelineman. If you subtract J. Smith from that line.....................then are Dline is s**tty. It's up to the other players on the DL to step up in order to make J smith's job easier.

When you look at him play, I see him doubled teamed alot, plus they got him dropping back into coverage sometimes.

But I think the main reason why he hasn't had a big sack total is are secondary has been givin up ass since he has been here. Only one person can sack the qb at a time so your oppurtunities are limited, if the secondary isnt locking up the recievers and te's. Overall I dont think are secondary has really given are Dline a descent amount of time to get to the QB. Most of the time the opposing Qb back hikes the ball, and within 3 to 4 seconds the ball is thrown.

When is the last time the Bengals got a coverage sack?

Justin Smith is a dawg. :player:

[stuck]

Smith is fine. Getting a bunch of sacks is nice, but he gets his share of double teams, spends time in the opponent's backfield, pressures the qb, and stretches the opponent's O-line.

When other clubs game-plan they have to factor him in.

[Barbarian]

Justin Smith is not a bust, in fact he is are best defensivelineman. If you subtract J. Smith from that line.....................then are Dline is s**tty. It's up to the other players on the DL to step up in order to make J smith's job easier.

When you look at him play, I see him doubled teamed alot, plus they got him dropping back into coverage sometimes.

But I think the main reason why he hasn't had a big sack total is are secondary has been givin up ass since he has been here. Only one person can sack the qb at a time so your oppurtunities are limited, if the secondary isnt locking up the recievers and te's. Overall I dont think are secondary has really given are Dline a descent amount of time to get to the QB. Most of the time the opposing Qb back hikes the ball, and within 3 to 4 seconds the ball is thrown.

When is the last time the Bengals got a coverage sack?

Justin Smith is a dawg. :player:

And if you keep Justin Smith in that DL, they're still s**tty--or do you like the Defense giving up THAT many rushing yards??? However, if Justin Smith is your sack threat, then you have serious problems, since he only had 5 last year.

I'll second the "coverage sack" thing. So, when was the last time??? Anyone know??? Was it back in the 80s???

[redsfan2]

Justin Smith is not a bust by any stretch of the imagnation. I don't have time to go dig up all the numbers (again!) today but if you go compare his first three seasons with those of the first three seasons of top DEs around the league, he stacks up very well. And that's even more impressive considering that the rest of the line has been sub-par for most of his time here.

What he said.

Smith has always had trouble shedding blocks. He's getting better tho, and that is why he drew the double team so often last year. That and with the play of the rest of the line, the opponents could afford to double him.

Could he have been better ??? With a defense ranked 28th, they All could have been better. The best that can be said for him ... that can't be said about some others ... is that he didn't have major gaffs that cost us ... and when he did get his chances / shots he took full advantage.

Want more production out of him ?? Put better people on the line with him.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Want more production out of him ?? Put better on the line with him.

That's been done. Come kickoff time we'll see the results! :player:

[redsfan2]

Want more production out of him ?? Put better on the line with him.

That's been done. Come kickoff time we'll see the results! :player:

I don't know that it's been done yet, but I hope so.

As to results, I think we're going to see them across the board. The way Lewis prides himself on defense, you just know he ate about 50 pounds of Rolaids last year on his way to being 28th in the league.

Didn't want to use a new thread for it, but there's a really good article about Abdullah on Bengals.com. The linebackers showed flashes last year before falling off. Hopefully this year they will show sustained improvement. Better play by the linebackers and the secondary are only going to help the ends and tackles do their jobs.

Got a good feeling about this Abdullah kid. I liked him last year, and this year he seems if anything, even more intense.