Stacy Andrews - Prisco's #1 Breakout Player

[HoosierCat]

What's hard is that he isn't going to sign any contract for any amount of money and remain with the Bengals. He wants to go play with bubby in Philly. The end.

Bulls**t.

Stacy has said it would be great to play with his bro -- and why wouldn't it? -- but has never said it's an issue. In fact, he has specifically said that he's not upset about being in Cincy.

Moreover, last I checked, Philly has two good veteran tackles already, and has spent 2 high picks (1 1st, 1 2nd) on tackles and about 5 4-5th rounders on guards, in the last five years. So he's going to what, go work for minimum in Philly? Hardly.

No, the team he certainly has his eye on is the Jets, who chatted him up as a RFA last season, remember? It's all about the money, baby. And if he makes the plays, he'll get paid.

[skyline]

No, it makes no sense to give him snaps when he is gone next year, because now is the time to build a cohesive line that you expect to be together not just in 2008, but also in 2009

The mistake (7.5 million salary guarenteed regardless of whether he plays at all) has already been made. Don't make it worse by giving Stacey snaps that the player who will take his spot in 2009 needs NOW.

The player that might replace Stacey WILL get snaps this season. That said, you don't want a rookie offensive lineman getting too many snaps unless you enjoy seeing Palmer on his back.

This gives us a year to develop Collins, and if Andrews is gone next season, then at least we bought ourselves a year while the young guy learns.

Here's hoping the reports are true, and the Bengals are able to work something out with Whitworth. We can't afford to lose him, that's for sure.

[membengal]

Exactly.

Collins may well be the future answer, but NO WAY would I want this season to be put at risk if Willie comes up lame again with all eggs in a fourth round rookie tackle basket. Soooooo, they have insurance in Andrews. For one year. For a contract that, while large, didn't cost them going after players they wanted. In fact, it would appear the Bengals, for whom everyone seems to yell "CHEAP BASTARDS" at every opportunity, spent rather large to protect themselves at a key position.

I have NO problems with this, and applaud their having done so.

[TJJackson]

I remember the Jets courting him as a RFA, I do indeed. There was also some talk at the time of San Fran having some interest.

*shrug*

All of us are guessing based on what we have seen and heard. That said, if he plays a lot this year and plays well, I hope you're right - that they do finally sign him long term contract. I'm just pessimistic about that possibility, is all.

[Ickey44]

I watched every game last year and don't seem to remember his name being called positively or negatively. So, I can't say I'm disappointed that we kept him, just disappointed in the cost. I actually hope we're able to work out a long term deal with him as well. I'm not sure how much Willie has left in the tank.

[fattyjay]

Soooo let's see, they have Levi, Willie, and Stacey all making franchise tackle money this year and are negotiating with Whitworth on an extention not to mention the rookie Collins. I would say the chances of Stacey staying at this point look pretty bleak. If Levi and Willie remain as the starters for next season, how could they justify signing Stacey and Whit to large extentions?

[HoosierCat]

Soooo let's see, they have Levi, Willie, and Stacey all making franchise tackle money this year

Uh, no. Stacy is making franchise coin, about $7.5 million, with an equivalent cap hit. Willie is making about $4 million in salary and workout bonuses (if he even qualified for the latter this year, which he probably didn't since he didn't show for the voluntaries, meaning he's making closer to $3 million), and has a $4.4 million cap number, while Levi is making in the $3.5 million neighborhood with a cap number of $5.3 million.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Soooo let's see, they have Levi, Willie, and Stacey all making franchise tackle money this year

Uh, no. Stacy is making franchise coin, about $7.5 million, with an equivalent cap hit. Willie is making about $4 million in salary and workout bonuses (if he even qualified for the latter this year, which he probably didn't since he didn't show for the voluntaries, meaning he's making closer to $3 million), and has a $4.4 million cap number, while Levi is making in the $3.5 million neighborhood with a cap number of $5.3 million.

Cap numbers are manipulated year-to-year. Are you counting pro-rated signing bonuses in those numbers? All in all, Levi and Willie are making pretty danged good money - certainly better than backup money. I think Fatty's point is that between Willie, Andrews, Whitworth, and Levi, you have four guys making money that you don't want to pay to backups - and those four guys will be occupying 3 spots.

[HoosierCat]

Cap numbers are manipulated year-to-year.

And how much of that do the Bengals do? Pretty much none, right?

Are you counting pro-rated signing bonuses in those numbers?

Yes, of course.

All in all, Levi and Willie are making pretty danged good money - certainly better than backup money.

Yeah, and they are the 2 starters, right?

I think Fatty's point is that between Willie, Andrews, Whitworth, and Levi, you have four guys making money that you don't want to pay to backups - and those four guys will be occupying 3 spots.

Whit's making a whole $720k this season. So, in the end, we have 3 guys in Levi, Willie and Andrews who combined are making about as much as two franchise tackles. With more than $13 million invested in Palmer this year, what is the problem with that? The money being paid to our tackles is not out of line, and letting Stacy go only increases the chance our megabucks QB gets torn up again.

[fattyjay]

Cap numbers are manipulated year-to-year.

And how much of that do the Bengals do? Pretty much none, right?

Are you counting pro-rated signing bonuses in those numbers?

Yes, of course.

All in all, Levi and Willie are making pretty danged good money - certainly better than backup money.

Yeah, and they are the 2 starters, right?

I think Fatty's point is that between Willie, Andrews, Whitworth, and Levi, you have four guys making money that you don't want to pay to backups - and those four guys will be occupying 3 spots.

Whit's making a whole $720k this season. So, in the end, we have 3 guys in Levi, Willie and Andrews who combined are making about as much as two franchise tackles. With more than $13 million invested in Palmer this year, what is the problem with that? The money being paid to our tackles is not out of line, and letting Stacy go only increases the chance our megabucks QB gets torn up again.

Actually those 3 guys only occupy 2 starting spots and are counting close to $18 mil (about 15% of the total) against the cap. My problem with this is what about next year? By all indications Levi and Willie don't plan on leaving and Andrews wants starter money. So, a. what kind of extention are they giving Whitworth, 2. why would they pay 3 guys to start in two spots, and c. I have no problem with spending money to protect Carson but how about spending some of that tackle money on the defensive kind?

[TippCityRick]

OK, time to chime in again. Yes the Bengals want to and should protect Palmer, and Andrews has shown a penchant for pass protection. However to be paid as an elite tackle one would think he would also show a penchant for RUN blocking . . . especially your RIGHT tackle. This young Mr. Andrews has not shown, at least not at an elite level. $7.5M is an especially high insurance policy when you have Whitworth available. They have been unable to come to terms with Andrews and now that has been tabled for the end of the year. I'd say that since these talks have been going on for two years it's unlikely they will reach agreement even after this year on Andrews' value. $7.5m rent-a-tackle. There were no other available options in FA for a lesser cost than this when we have so many holes on the other side of the ball? That is the question I pose.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Hopefully Andrews stays on the bench except for mop up duty this season and his value drops because he still has not shown much progress. In fantasy land, this will allow the Bengals to sign him long term to thier deal and he becomes an All-Pro Tackle in a couple of years.

[TippCityRick]

You have more hope for the dancing bear than I do. Run blocking is attitude and I don't see it in him.

[HoosierCat]

My problem with this is what about next year?

Well, what about it? I can see any number of scenarios. Pay Stacy, cut Willie, for instance. And all your troubles go poof.

how about spending some of that tackle money on the defensive kind?

Sounds great. But who? What DT was available in FA this year that they didn't get because of money issues?

[TippCityRick]

QUOTE(fattyjay @ Jul 17 2008, 12:26 PM)

My problem with this is what about next year?

Well, what about it? I can see any number of scenarios. Pay Stacy, cut Willie, for instance. And all your troubles go poof.

. . . and so does your running game! Again what have you seen that gives you the impression that Andrews is an elite right tackle that can run block?

[HoosierCat]

QUOTE(fattyjay @ Jul 17 2008, 12:26 PM)

My problem with this is what about next year?

Well, what about it? I can see any number of scenarios. Pay Stacy, cut Willie, for instance. And all your troubles go poof.

. . . and so does your running game! Again what have you seen that gives you the impression that Andrews is an elite right tackle that can run block?

One. More. Time: THAT'S WHAT WE WILL FIND OUT THIS YEAR!

If Stacy does not "break out" he will go. If he does, he'll get paid.

[fattyjay]

My problem with this is what about next year?

Well, what about it? I can see any number of scenarios. Pay Stacy, cut Willie, for instance. And all your troubles go poof.

how about spending some of that tackle money on the defensive kind?

Sounds great. But who? What DT was available in FA this year that they didn't get because of money issues?

Well, the way things have been playing out the Bengals look like they are going to just let Willie call his own shots, so I don't really see them cutting him. As far as the suggestion for a DT goes, I wasn't inferring that they missed out on anyone in particular, but just saying there are other roster spots that need attention besides OT. I actually am fairly pleased with their offseason efforts in trying to upgrade the DT position. I do however think they reached for Shirley, he probably could've been signed as a UDFA but that's hindsight.

Maybe I should be more clear in my thoughts regarding the franchising move. I think if they wanted to move forward with Stacy then they needed to tell Willie its time for him to hang it up. Now, maybe franchising Stacy is a very passive aggressive way of telling Willie just that, but then why can't they be more direct? Frankly I think its a problem the Bengals have at several postions with other players...Thornton, O'Neal, and DJax to name a few. I understand that they value their veteran leadership, but when their skills have diminshed to the point that they will be battling in camp for a starting role isn't it time for them to move on?

[TippCityRick]

One. More. Time: THAT'S WHAT WE WILL FIND OUT THIS YEAR!

If Stacy does not "break out" he will go. If he does, he'll get paid.

I don't know what you were watching last year, but I watched Andrews consistantly get beat in the run game. Run blocking is about attitude and I did not see that from him last year . . . his third or fourth in the league. He ain't no rook.

As far as being paid, he's getting "paid" $7.5m THIS YEAR! Hell of a gamble to see if he "breaks out" or as an insurance policy. My feeling is that there may have been cheaper insurance policies out there.

[membengal]

Tipp City...while he is definitely "no rook", he is still a football player with vastly less experience than other similarly situated players. There still may be a ton of upside in terms of his familiarity and ability to play the position against the run in terms of learning curve. I am glad the Bengals are willing to find out.

[HoosierCat]

I think if they wanted to move forward with Stacy then they needed to tell Willie its time for him to hang it up. Now, maybe franchising Stacy is a very passive aggressive way of telling Willie just that, but then why can't they be more direct? Frankly I think its a problem the Bengals have at several postions with other players...Thornton, O'Neal, and DJax to name a few. I understand that they value their veteran leadership, but when their skills have diminshed to the point that they will be battling in camp for a starting role isn't it time for them to move on?

Well, first, I think there's a world of difference between Willie and the others you mention. None of them have ever been consistent Pro Bowl-caliber players. Willie, if healthy, is one of the best around. You can't simply toss that aside. At the same time, his recent injuries mean you can't let Andrews walk either. If Willie gets through 2008 OK, then they can look at him and Andrews and Collins and Whit next offseason and determine which way to go. But for now, we have a better chance to win with Stacy than without.

As to Deltha, Thornton and Dexter, Dexter may not make it out of camp, Deltha (now bumped down to nickle) will be gone after this year and Thornton probably too. Keeping John makes sense because they need the time to develop the raw Shirley.

[ArmyBengal]

A very small blurb I found amusing was the thought of the Bengals trading Andrews, a 3rd next year, and another pick later to Tennessee for Haynesworth. It was from Hobson's piece about Andrews today... Will it happen ?? I think NO WAY, but amusing nonetheless...

WHODEY !!!

[Ickey44]

A very small blurb I found amusing was the thought of the Bengals trading Andrews, a 3rd next year, and another pick later to Tennessee for Haynesworth. It was from Hobson's piece about Andrews today... Will it happen ?? I think NO WAY, but amusing nonetheless...

WHODEY !!!

Probably won't happen, but if it did that would be great.

[HAPPYJAQ]

A very small blurb I found amusing was the thought of the Bengals trading Andrews, a 3rd next year, and another pick later to Tennessee for Haynesworth. It was from Hobson's piece about Andrews today... Will it happen ?? I think NO WAY, but amusing nonetheless...

WHODEY !!!

Probably won't happen, but if it did that would be great.

They won't trade Fat Albert, especially since the NFL doesn't have sign-and-trades and franchise players cannot be renegotiated until after the season, at this point. Besides, Haynesworth means to much to their defense and is a clear Top-5 at his position, whereas Andrews is still a question mark with tremendous potential. I think that he and T.J. will be gone next year, which could be good as the Bengals could position themselves to FINALLY land an impact defender while still having their successors already in the fold in Whitworth/Collins and Simpson/Calsdwell (and maybe even Henry). Not resigning both would allow them over 10 million in cap room, in the what looks to be the final year of a salary cap in the NFL and possibly Carson's best chance to win a Super Bowl, if that happens.