He's having surgery! He's having surgery!

[TJJackson]

I'll take a team player that makes 700-1100 yards per season, doesn't implode the team and finds the end zone a little more often

a little run blocking - you know, the effort that translates as production on SOMEONE ELSE'S stat sheet - would also be appreciated

[ArmyBengal]

I still think the Bengals were crazy to not take the Redskins offer for Chad this year and deal with developing the young WR's. Knowing you have a pass catching TE and a healthy RB corps would eleviate some of that loss. Not to mention who was still available when the 21st pick came around to add improvement to the team.

Felix Jones and Mendenhall were there, not to mention Kentwan Balmer.

Merling, Hardy, or even Rachal would have ok by me...

WHODEY !!!

[Kazkal]

I wanted to see the bengals make that trade too,but since we didn't I rather see good things happen to our team rather then pray for bad happenings against a douchebag.

[BengalPimp]

Do it at the end of the season to assure it is all healed and rehab'd properly.

Certainly the best course. That said, last time he had this procedure done he was back in 2 weeks, so I'm not anticipating a problem.

Nor am I. Its simply cleaning out some bone spurs/chips, he'll be fully healthy by the opening of training camp. As is the case most of the time, a player usually delays surgery in hopes the problem corrects itself, thats most likely why he waited.

[Ickey44]

I'll take a team player that makes 700-1100 yards per season, doesn't implode the team and finds the end zone a little more often

a little run blocking - you know, the effort that translates as production on SOMEONE ELSE'S stat sheet - would also be appreciated

Wow, that's the first thing you've said in a while that I agree with.

[gregstephens]

Do it at the end of the season to assure it is all healed and rehab'd properly.

Certainly the best course. That said, last time he had this procedure done he was back in 2 weeks, so I'm not anticipating a problem.

Nor am I. Its simply cleaning out some bone spurs/chips, he'll be fully healthy by the opening of training camp. As is the case most of the time, a player usually delays surgery in hopes the problem corrects itself, thats most likely why he waited.

Yeah...I'm not to the point of giving 85 that much benefit of the doubt. He and Rosenhaus haven't earned that.

[BengalByTheBay]

Yards are overrrated if you aren't in the endzone. Other AFC wide receivers with the same or more td's than 85 for 2007: Andre Johnson with Houston, who missed almost half the season, Santonio Holmes, Wes Welker, Braylon Edwards, TJ, Reggie Williams, Reggie Wayne. 85 thinks, and many of us (you) believe, that 85 is above all of these other receivers as an elite receiver. The scoring doesn't support that. The yards are overrated.

Is 85 one of the best football talents on the team? Sure. But when you subtract his attitude, his inability or unwillingness to play in the clutch and the permanent damage done to the team by his antics, his value is overrated.

I hope the Bengals do great this year, but I believe they can be solid contenders without 85 and show him he isn't all that on this team.

Just think you're taking it a little far in hoping that a player gets hurt and put on the PUP when -- unless I'm missing something -- you're backup for him is Maxwell. Yeah, we all get you're pissed off, but why cut off your nose to spite your face? Chad's production relates primarily to yards. It's always been that way. He's not a big red-zone threat and never has been. You're defeating your own argument by downplaying one stat to emphasize another. TD's are great, but so are yards. They're all necessary to put up points. You don't get all TJ's red zone catches unless and until you get into the red zone. You can still hate Chad without trying to make him into a bad player. That's what I'm calling an overreaction. If you think the team is better off without Chad that's fine, but you should come up with something better than how well Maxwell will replace him because he's not a loudmouth jackass like Chad. And, no, I don't think the Bengals options to replace Chad include Reggie Wayne or any of the other guys you named.

[gregstephens]

Yards are overrrated if you aren't in the endzone. Other AFC wide receivers with the same or more td's than 85 for 2007: Andre Johnson with Houston, who missed almost half the season, Santonio Holmes, Wes Welker, Braylon Edwards, TJ, Reggie Williams, Reggie Wayne. 85 thinks, and many of us (you) believe, that 85 is above all of these other receivers as an elite receiver. The scoring doesn't support that. The yards are overrated.

Is 85 one of the best football talents on the team? Sure. But when you subtract his attitude, his inability or unwillingness to play in the clutch and the permanent damage done to the team by his antics, his value is overrated.

I hope the Bengals do great this year, but I believe they can be solid contenders without 85 and show him he isn't all that on this team.

Just think you're taking it a little far in hoping that a player gets hurt and put on the PUP when -- unless I'm missing something -- you're backup for him is Maxwell. Yeah, we all get you're pissed off, but why cut off your nose to spite your face? Chad's production relates primarily to yards. It's always been that way. He's not a big red-zone threat and never has been. You're defeating your own argument by downplaying one stat to emphasize another. TD's are great, but so are yards. They're all necessary to put up points. You don't get all TJ's red zone catches unless and until you get into the red zone. You can still hate Chad without trying to make him into a bad player. That's what I'm calling an overreaction. If you think the team is better off without Chad that's fine, but you should come up with something better than how well Maxwell will replace him because he's not a loudmouth jackass like Chad. And, no, I don't think the Bengals options to replace Chad include Reggie Wayne or any of the other guys you named.

And I apologize that, in all your reading and writing, you missed my post stating that I don't actually wish harm on 85. I don't. It's called venting frustrations like so many of us do on this board on a myriad of different topics. That's why we are a fan web site. We vent.

Having said that...I can just as easily argue that you are overemphasizing the yardage stat. It is overrated. Particularly in 85's case since he had five games over 100 yards (including one over 200 yards) that distract you from the fact that, for eleven other games, he was pretty average. And look who he got those against: Browns, Titans, Seahawks, Jets and Dolphins.

Conversely, 85 had one game in the 90s, 3 in the 80s, 2 in the 70s, 1 in the 60s, 2 in the 50s and 2 in the 40s. We're not talking about seven or eight games over one hundred or anything like that. He was not consistent in 2007 in his yard production and he only scored in four games.

Unless you can give me the stat showing me how many other touchdowns were scored off of his 1,400 yards continuing drives, etc., the argument can go back and forth with no winner and not necessarily anyone being right or wrong. But don't buy into the Kool Aid of 85 where this team needs him more than he needs them. He's an important part of the team, when's he's acting like a teammate, but he's not irreplaceable.

[BengalByTheBay]

He's an important part of the team, when's he's acting like a teammate, but he's not irreplaceable.

No one is irreplaceable. The question is whether the team is better with him or without him right now and, if without, who will be there instead. We may happen to disagree on the answer to that question, but I don't think it's legitimate to suggest that Chad's not a big part of this team's offense. It seems you don't really disagree with that, but it's a little hard to tell because I think you're position has changed a little - which is cool. I do see this as venting and you're hardly the only one. But when you look at it rationally, the Bengals probably are best served to get Chad to produce at as high a level as possible while these new receivers are working into the mix. FWIW, probably the most important aspect of this season is that Palmer will not force the ball to Chad as much as he was last season (particularly at the beginning of the season), so Chad's numbers will probably go down in any event. That reality will only be emphasized if Chad blasts his mouth more. So, the likely result is that Chad will be punished in the sense that he will get less, rather than more, interest in his game as he becomes marginalized. After all, isn't that really the fate worse than death for somebody who needs the adulation so much?

[Ickey44]

Are we a better team without CJ? Hard to say. Many people think the reason the Giants pulled together at the end of last year and were able to upset everyone to win the Superbowl is because their loud mouth superstar (Shockey) was hurt and not a part of the team.

On one hand, you could argue that we need Chad's 90 receptions and 1400 yards. On the other, you could say the team would pull together and play better as a whole without him disrupting everything and ruining everyone's morale.

I personally believe this offense would be even more effective if Chad would give his all on every play and just stop whining about how much he gets the ball. It seems to me that he only gives 100% on plays where his number is called. On other plays, and especially running plays, he just doesn't try. I really wish Marvin would hold him accountable for that.

Anyhow, we'll won't know anything until September.....WHO DEY!

[gregstephens]

He's an important part of the team, when's he's acting like a teammate, but he's not irreplaceable.

No one is irreplaceable. The question is whether the team is better with him or without him right now and, if without, who will be there instead. We may happen to disagree on the answer to that question, but I don't think it's legitimate to suggest that Chad's not a big part of this team's offense. It seems you don't really disagree with that, but it's a little hard to tell because I think you're position has changed a little - which is cool. I do see this as venting and you're hardly the only one. But when you look at it rationally, the Bengals probably are best served to get Chad to produce at as high a level as possible while these new receivers are working into the mix. FWIW, probably the most important aspect of this season is that Palmer will not force the ball to Chad as much as he was last season (particularly at the beginning of the season), so Chad's numbers will probably go down in any event. That reality will only be emphasized if Chad blasts his mouth more. So, the likely result is that Chad will be punished in the sense that he will get less, rather than more, interest in his game as he becomes marginalized. After all, isn't that really the fate worse than death for somebody who needs the adulation so much?

No, I'll admit to softening with the venting, and I don't suggest 85 isn't an integral part of the offense, but his skills aren't the only factors in any of this. If he plays like he's capable AND knocks off the antics, he's possibly the most valuable part of the offense. If he plays, but continues to act like an idiot, his overall value falls, and I don't think either of us are disagreeing on that point.

I will agree also on this point: Carson wasn't the same last year, probably due in large part to the crappy line, and he wasn't as accurate, he was throwing passes into double coverage and he was trying to force the ball to all of his receivers.

Overall, we all want one thing: success for the team. Let's all hope 85 and the rest of the band can put that together.

[membengal]

This is a better team with a focused CJ. Here's hoping that, now that his tantrum has run its course, we get that for 2008.