This sheds light on drafting Rivers instead of Ellis

[walzav29]

This arrest happend before the draft, so if you think about it Rivers was the smart pick instead of moving up for Ellis. Cross my fingers but the DT's have players Thorton, Peko and Meyers that stay out of trouble. The linebackers are a total mess. Bringing in a high character guy, is a phenomenal move and definitely clears up the 1st rnd pick for me. I have watched alot of videos of interviews of draft picks and no one seems like more of a boy scout than Rivers. Kudos Bengals.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

This arrest happend before the draft, so if you think about it Rivers was the smart pick instead of moving up for Ellis. Cross my fingers but the DT's have players Thorton, Peko and Meyers that stay out of trouble. The linebackers are a total mess. Bringing in a high character guy, is a phenomenal move and definitely clears up the 1st rnd pick for me. I have watched alot of videos of interviews of draft picks and no one seems like more of a boy scout than Rivers. Kudos Bengals.

I'm not going to disagree with you - to me, it seemed like there was more talent on the LBs but they were all a little unpredictable, while the DTs were model citizens that simply can't play. I'd have been OK with Odell, Jeanty, and Jones as starters, rolling the dice with a later round LB (say 3rd, where we got Sims), Schlegel (who they apparently felt they could cut), and maybe a later FA signing.

I suppose it depends how much it would have cost to jump the 2 spots - if it took a 3rd I could see saying forget it, but for a 4th I'd have probably done it even still.

You're also assuming that the Bengals knew about the Brooks thing well before charges were filed. Unless Ahmad told them, I don't know how they would know.

In the end, I'm just glad they went defense, but I've been wanting to see an early pick at DT for a long time now. it just seems to me that it's not a 'sexy' position so the Bengals ignore it.

[jjakq27]

I think the pick falls in with their traditional view of first round picks. For the most part they have always put a premium on QB, CB, OT, DE and LB but have not taken too many (if any) DT, S, G or C in the first. I think Rivers was their man all along.

Why the same money to a guy that might only be on the field for two downs (DT) versus a guy that might be out there for three downs (LB)?

[kingwilly]

Why the same money to a guy that might only be on the field for two downs (DT) versus a guy that might be out there for three downs (LB)?

well, for starters they pay Thornton a good chunk of coin to play poorly, as evidenced by the teams continued low defensive rankings, so a relative comparison for a new DT who can improve talent and results may be worth it.

next, a purely economic, plays-to-$ ratio assumes an LB, in 3 plays per 4, can improve the D as much as a DT can, in 2 plays per 4. To be honest, I'd pay $10M a year to a DT who could get us some 1-and-outs via turnovers...see my point? if player salaries were driven by how many plays they got in a game I think we'd need to re-think what we reward.

[Wraith]

At my workplace you must report any misconduct as soon as it occurs. I am sure Ahmad was booked that night

[fattyjay]

At my workplace you must report any misconduct as soon as it occurs. I am sure Ahmad was booked that night

He has not been arrested for this incident because it was not witnessed by the police. He has only received a court summons. I believe if you read the Enquirer article it states that it was a class 4 assault (or something like that). This type of assault requires the police to have witnessed it to make an arrest.

I really don't think this has anything to do with picking Rivers in the draft.

[Pidge]

At my workplace you must report any misconduct as soon as it occurs. I am sure Ahmad was booked that night

I really don't think this has anything to do with picking Rivers in the draft.

I agree with this. We got Rivers because the Bengals were unable/unwilling to trade up. If we did draft Rivers due to the Brooks situation then it's very likely we'd have drafted at least another LB as Odell is far from a nailed on starter either (although I hope with every fibre of my being that he makes it onto the final roster and team) and the rest of the LB corps aren't exactly pro bowlers.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Why the same money to a guy that might only be on the field for two downs (DT) versus a guy that might be out there for three downs (LB)?

Why pay the same money to a guy who only touches the ball 5 times a game if he's lucky (WR) versus a guy who touches the ball every play ©? It matters what you do when you're out there, not how often you're out there, which willy points out so eloquently.

I think a good DT has a huge impact on the running game and passing game. You do have to rotate them more often than LBs, but I think the impact of an anchor in the middle of the line is huge.

Not that we would know, we haven't had a great DT since Def Leppard was cool.

[jjakq27]

Why the same money to a guy that might only be on the field for two downs (DT) versus a guy that might be out there for three downs (LB)?

well, for starters they pay Thornton a good chunk of coin to play poorly, as evidenced by the teams continued low defensive rankings, so a relative comparison for a new DT who can improve talent and results may be worth it.

next, a purely economic, plays-to-$ ratio assumes an LB, in 3 plays per 4, can improve the D as much as a DT can, in 2 plays per 4. To be honest, I'd pay $10M a year to a DT who could get us some 1-and-outs via turnovers...see my point? if player salaries were driven by how many plays they got in a game I think we'd need to re-think what we reward.

I'm saying that the Bengals believe that there are certain position groups worthy of first round money (CB, QB, RB, LB, DE, OT) and a few (DT, G, C and S) that are not. I think this is part of their basic draft philosophy and goes back to when the old man was still around. They believe they can get wideouts, interior linemen and safeties later in the draft.

Look at their "success" with Big Daddy (DT) in 1994 and Rickey Dixon (S) 1988. They haven't drafted a player in the first round at either position group since they selected those guys. And over the last twenty years, the only other group represented besides one of the major five or six is WR where the selected Warrick in 2000.

Since 1988:

1988 Rickey Dixon (S)

Note: Dixon played safety in college but was drafted to play corner

1989 Eric Ball (RB)

1990 James Francis (LB)

1991 Alfred Williams (LB/DE)

1992 David Klingler (QB)

1993 John Copeland (DE)

1994 Dan Wilkinson (DT)

1995 Ki-Jana Carter (RB)

1996 Willie Anderson (OT)

1997 Reinard Wilson (LB/DE)

1998 Takeo Spikes (LB)

1999 Akili Smith (QB)

2000 Peter Warrick (WR)

2001 Justin Smith (DE)

2002 Levi Jones (OT)

2003 Carson Palmer (QB)

2004 Chris Perry (RB)

2005 David Pollack (DE/LB)

2006 Jonathan Joseph (CB)

2007 Leon Hall (CB)

2008 Keith Rivers (LB)

[Kazkal]

I wanted Ellis I wanted him really bad but I'm glad we got Rivers along with Sims and Shirley.

[HAPPYJAQ]

Why the same money to a guy that might only be on the field for two downs (DT) versus a guy that might be out there for three downs (LB)?

well, for starters they pay Thornton a good chunk of coin to play poorly, as evidenced by the teams continued low defensive rankings, so a relative comparison for a new DT who can improve talent and results may be worth it.

next, a purely economic, plays-to-$ ratio assumes an LB, in 3 plays per 4, can improve the D as much as a DT can, in 2 plays per 4. To be honest, I'd pay $10M a year to a DT who could get us some 1-and-outs via turnovers...see my point? if player salaries were driven by how many plays they got in a game I think we'd need to re-think what we reward.

I'm saying that the Bengals believe that there are certain position groups worthy of first round money (CB, QB, RB, LB, DE, OT) and a few (DT, G, C and S) that are not. I think this is part of their basic draft philosophy and goes back to when the old man was still around. They believe they can get wideouts, interior linemen and safeties later in the draft.

Look at their "success" with Big Daddy (DT) in 1994 and Rickey Dixon (S) 1988. They haven't drafted a player in the first round at either position group since they selected those guys. And over the last twenty years, the only other group represented besides one of the major five or six is WR where the selected Warrick in 2000.

Since 1988:

1988 Rickey Dixon (S)

Note: Dixon played safety in college but was drafted to play corner

1989 Eric Ball (RB)

1990 James Francis (LB)

1991 Alfred Williams (LB/DE)

1992 David Klingler (QB)

1993 John Copeland (DE)

1994 Dan Wilkinson (DT)

1995 Ki-Jana Carter (RB)

1996 Willie Anderson (OT)

1997 Reinard Wilson (LB/DE)

1998 Takeo Spikes (LB)

1999 Akili Smith (QB)

2000 Peter Warrick (WR)

2001 Justin Smith (DE)

2002 Levi Jones (OT)

2003 Carson Palmer (QB)

2004 Chris Perry (RB)

2005 David Pollack (DE/LB)

2006 Jonathan Joseph (CB)

2007 Leon Hall (CB)

2008 Keith Rivers (LB)

Excellent post. The highest paid positions in the game on defense (and have been for many years or DE, CB and LB. I am one who believe that Ellis will be only average in the NFL. The one thing that strikes me as how much better a lot of people thought that Dorsey was than Ellis. Many people had Dorsey as the top player in the draft and Ellis, no better than top 7. Furthermore, NO was willing to offer a 1st, 3rs and 1st next year to move up to get Dorsey, as reported on the NFL Network on draft day. The fact that Kansas City could have accepted that trade (and maybe still get Ellis)and didn't says something, especially considering by all accounts DT wasn't their top need. To get the best LB, and no worse than the 4th best DT with the picks that would have been traded in the Ellis deal is a steal! Consider the fact that it gave the Bengals the chance to address the WR position again earlier (with Caldwell....we had to get 2 good WR's), makes it even better! Lastly, I'll take my odds; the draft is a crapshoot...I'd rather have a chance at a superstar out of 2 picks as opposed to 1.

[BengalPimp]

So what if he punched a chick in the face?

SHE HAD IT COMING....THE TRICK OWED HIM SOME MONEY.......

PIMPIN' AINT EASY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jjakq27]

So what if he punched a chick in the face?

SHE HAD IT COMING....THE TRICK OWED HIM SOME MONEY.......

PIMPIN' AINT EASY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Careful there Pimp.

[DesperateDerelict]

I wanted Ellis and I wanted him real bad but ....

then she started talkin about LOVE and talkin' about SIN.

I said "Honey, I'll live with you, for the rest of my life".

She said, "No Huggy, No Kissy, 'till you make me your wife"

"My honey, my baby, don't put my love up on a shelf"

She said, "Don't hand me no lines, and keep your hands to yourself"

oooooooooops, sorry

[GregCook]

I wanted Ellis and I wanted him real bad but ....

then she started talkin about LOVE and talkin' about SIN.

I said "Honey, I'll live with you, for the rest of my life".

She said, "No Huggy, No Kissy, 'till you make me your wife"

"My honey, my baby, don't put my love up on a shelf"

She said, "Don't hand me no lines, and keep your hands to yourself"

oooooooooops, sorry

See this is where that story is wrong, its backwards.

Once a wife has got her kids, its "where's the money, why don't you earn more, why don't you clean up and keep your hands to yourself"!

As for Brooks, he's way out of line slugging a women 1/2 his size...now if a guy wants to call him out and beg for a fight...that is different. For his own career he should take a pass...but those NFL big boys aren't used to that.

This isn't a huge deal to me especially since he's been no trouble since his drafting.

[TJJackson]

So what if he punched a chick in the face?

SHE HAD IT COMING....THE TRICK OWED HIM SOME MONEY.......

PIMPIN' AINT EASY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Careful there Pimp.

No worries....the admins and mods here are OK with this sort of thing, it seems

[BengalszoneBilly]

So what if he punched a chick in the face?

SHE HAD IT COMING....THE TRICK OWED HIM SOME MONEY.......

PIMPIN' AINT EASY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Careful there Pimp.

No worries....the admins and mods here are OK with this sort of thing, it seems

Actually we're not. Another thread closed.

[jjakq27]

So what if he punched a chick in the face?

SHE HAD IT COMING....THE TRICK OWED HIM SOME MONEY.......

PIMPIN' AINT EASY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Careful there Pimp.

No worries....the admins and mods here are OK with this sort of thing, it seems

Actually we're not. Another thread closed.

Guy's gotta keep messing up a perfectly good thread with stupid remarks. Maybe someone should start a thread that is for all inappropriate, politically incorrect and idiotic comments. Then they could insult and belittle each other there and the rest of the world while we continue on without them.