The Shaun Alexander Thread

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I'll spell it out for you...Clear now?

Yeah, it's clear *now*, since that's not what you said the first time. The first time you went into a treatise regarding average length of contract and compared Alexander's potential contract to Justin Smith's, complete with incentive clauses. I have no idea what your point was there, since it's irrelevant, as the concise answer to the question was 'none of it matters because the Seahawks cut him.'

[TJJackson]

I'll spell it out for you...Clear now?

Yeah, it's clear *now*, since that's not what you said the first time. The first time you went into a treatise regarding average length of contract and compared Alexander's potential contract to Justin Smith's, complete with incentive clauses. I have no idea what your point was there, since it's irrelevant, as the concise answer to the question was 'none of it matters because the Seahawks cut him.'

well, you didn't understand what I said the first time, so I had to say it a different way. Of course I didn't say exactly the same thing....that was the point!

sheesh.

go get a sandwich or something

[ArmyBengal]

I'll toss in my thoughts here as well...

He's older, but is he better than what we have now ?? I'm not sold on that right now...

Who on the current roster gets cut ?? I really don't want to get rid of any of them at this point compared to what SA gives us.

I see the Bengals trying to generate a good news story for the fans, but in the grand scheme of things, there is no clear cut determination of how he would be used and I just can't see it happen. I will say this though, I would much rather have this conversation than talking about Chad !!!

WHODEY !!!

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

In any event, do we have any idea what kind of cash he expects? I'm in the "I could average 5 YPC behind Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson" camp, so I don't think he's as good as he looked the year he got the MVP. Behind our line I don't see him being that effective, but I'm fine with giving the local boy a try if he's cheap.

I still don't like admitting he's washed up and too old.

[Thurmanation]

LJ and SA are both not what we need.

Well naturally what we need is Adrian Peterson and Ladainian Tomlinson both signed for 5 years or more at minimum veteran salaries. Yeah.

On the other hand, in the real world where I live (and you are welcome to join me), you have the following to choose from

1) existing players on your roster

2) your draftees and signed UDCFAs

3) street free agents

4) layer acquired through a trade (although this is a pipe dream....trades outside of the draft are a fairly rare thing)

So, using those options only, tell me again what we "need"....and this time, don't tell me what we don't need, tell me what we DO need

What we need right now is to keep the players we have in our backfield in our backfield and we need to not waste money on players that will not contribute in a bigger way then what we have now. DDD and Watson both performed better last year, and there behind Rudi and Irons/Perry on the depth chart.

So i say instead of throwing money away to another OWUP, we can keep it to pay off our Chad debts from sending him away.

[HAPPYJAQ]

I'll spell it out for you

Happy Jaq said the following...I've bolded the only part I commented on, but I include it in it's entirety so you can understand why this is being discussed

I don't agree with signing Alexander. First, he's over 30 and I can't remember the last time a team signed a free agent back over 30 that had a major impact. Secondly, by all accounts his play has regressed, even to the point that Mike Holmgren thinks that T.J. Duckett, Maurice Morris and Julian Jones are better players than him at this point. I believe he was a product of an outstanding line during his best years in Seattle, as he hasn't been the same type of player since Hutchinson left. He missed time last year due to an injured arm/wrist and there were rumors that teammates began questioning his toughness and ability to play through nagging injuries. Lastly, signing him almost certainly means that you lose the 3rd round pick compensatory pick that the Bengals should receive for losing Williams, Smith and co.

I'd rather see what we have through camp and the preseason and see what happens from there, then make a snap decision based on the fact that we didn't draft a RB this year in the draft.

So Happy Jaq is claiming that if we sign Alexander, it will cause us to lose a high (he says 3rd round) compensatory pick

My response says "uh, no, wrong"

You response was "why are we talking about compensatory picks?

The answer - because Happy Jaq wrongly brought it up

Clear now?

Compensatory picks a boon to teams

By John Clayton

ESPN.com

(Archive)

Updated: March 12, 2007

Comment

Email

Print

The press release is distributed at the annual NFL owners meeting with little fanfare.

First, a review of how compensatory picks work. Under the NFL's collective bargaining agreement, teams that lose more or better "compensatory" free agents than they acquire in a year are eligible to receive compensatory draft choices. No team can receive more than four. The choices range from the third to the seventh rounds, and they are all positioned at the bottom of the round.

The NFL Management Council determines the number and value of the compensatory picks, and it guards the secrecy of its compensatory formula like Coke guards its secret recipe. This much is known: The NFL formula is based on salary, playing time, postseason awards and the net of free agents lost versus free agents signed.

Compensatory picks aren't sexy picks, but they can be very important.

John Clayton is a senior writer for ESPN.com.

Since the UFA signing period began we have lost Willams, Smith, Stepanovich, Robinson and L. Johnson. Alternatively, we have signed Odom, B. Johnson, Blackstock, Gabriel and Utech. Smith, Williams and L. Johnson were signed to large contracts and figure to be starters for their respective teams. Odom and Utech also signed larger contracts with the Bengals, and figure to start or receive significant playing time this year. An Alexander signing would also add another starter, as if it very unlikely that he would sign here to be a backup, even if he signs a contract that is lower in dollar value (It is also likely that he would sign for anywhere near the veteran minimum and I would think it would be somewhere close to the 4 year, $23 million dollar deal that Ahman Green signed last year with Houston, for whatever teams that signs him). So in review, if we signed him we would have basically signed 3 starters and lost 3 in addition to signing 6 UFA's and losing 5 UFA's, regardless of the fact he was released by the 'Hawks. If he contributes a decent season, I believe this might affect our compensatory picks. That was my only point on signing him related to compensatory picks.

[Kazkal]

What would it hurt to sign him cheap? let him compete against rudi and who ever shows they have more is the starting RB

[HoosierCat]

What would it hurt to sign him cheap?

All other arguments aside, he won't sign cheap. At least not now. Why? Chances are some team loses an RB its counting on in camp (see Irons, Kenny, 2007) and is scrambling for an RB in August. He will be politely noncommital, the Bengals will be the same, and if it should come to pass that Rudi and/or Perry cant be relied on, we may be one of the teams in the running for his services in a couple months. Right now, though, he has no reason to sign anything but a big money deal, and that he is not going to get here, and probably not anywhere else right now.

[HAPPYJAQ]

What would it hurt to sign him cheap?

All other arguments aside, he won't sign cheap. At least not now. Why? Chances are some team loses an RB its counting on in camp (see Irons, Kenny, 2007) and is scrambling for an RB in August. He will be politely noncommital, the Bengals will be the same, and if it should come to pass that Rudi and/or Perry cant be relied on, we may be one of the teams in the running for his services in a couple months. Right now, though, he has no reason to sign anything but a big money deal, and that he is not going to get here, and probably not anywhere else right now.

You're dead on with that assesment, Hoosier. His agent is trying to create a market for him after the draft and the Bengals seem always willing to oblige when it comes to veteran free agents in decline (see Sapp, Warren or Sharper, Jamie). His value is low on the open market right now but after Monday his agent will have a better idea of what the market is for Shaun, which will help in contract negotiations with other teams (possibly including the Bengals) later this Summer.

[BengalszoneBilly]

What would it hurt to sign him cheap? let him compete against rudi and who ever shows they have more is the starting RB

Why don't you throw Watson into that mix? Kenny really impressed me in '07. I believe he will keep bringing it in '08.

[TJJackson]

what we need right now is to keep the players we have in our backfield in our backfield and we need to not waste money on players that will not contribute in a bigger way then what we have now.

Rudi's average has gone way down, as has his size, and speed. Meanwhile, his tendency to fumble has increased

Perry is made of glass and balsa.

Watson did well, I grant you. I've always liked him, but then again I have a fondness for good special teamers. So -- that's one. You need 3-4 reliable backs

DDD is small and cannot frequently carry the load. He also ended the season injured, or did you miss that as well?

Irons is not expected back by the start of camp

so

I'd say you need at least one more back

what else you got?

[TJJackson]

if he (Alexander) signs a contract that is lower in dollar value (It is also likely that he would sign for anywhere near the veteran minimum and I would think it would be somewhere close to the 4 year, $23 million dollar deal that Ahman Green signed last year with Houston, for whatever teams that signs him)

No, he was released a week or two ago,and no one has signed him. He will not get big money, he'll get a minimum contract

In any case, since he was cut rather than had his contract expire, he doesn't figure into the comp picks scenario regardless

[TJJackson]

he has no reason to sign anything but a big money deal, and that he is not going to get here, and probably not anywhere else right now.

I follow you....but let me add that I'd have no interest in signing him for anything bigger than veteran minimum regardless of our RB situation, and certainly not if he has not been in the earlier camps to absorb the offense.

At that point, I'd just as soon have a young FA with fresh legs

[HAPPYJAQ]

Shaun signed a 8 year, 62 million dollar contract less than 2 years ago. Including his 15 million in guarantees, he made close to 27 million over since he signed the deal. I highly doubt that he'll be signing a contract worth $477,000 per year, which is the veteran minimum. It might even be closer to the 2 year, 6 million dollar deal that Warrick Dunn signed with Tampa Bay this year, coming off a down season in Atlanta.

[Kazkal]

2million a Year would be fine with me because if he beat out rudi you'd be saving money.

[kingwilly]

if he (Alexander) signs a contract that is lower in dollar value (It is also likely that he would sign for anywhere near the veteran minimum and I would think it would be somewhere close to the 4 year, $23 million dollar deal that Ahman Green signed last year with Houston, for whatever teams that signs him)

No, he was released a week or two ago,and no one has signed him. He will not get big money, he'll get a minimum contract

In any case, since he was cut rather than had his contract expire, he doesn't figure into the comp picks scenario regardless

he will get decent coin...$1.5-2M.

someone will get hurt and a team will pay him...maybe SF with Gore, maybe ATL with Turner, maybe STL with Jackson, or NYJ or maybe Cincy...someone will want him.

Here, I could see Rudi just not having any gas left, getting cut on June 1. Then, Perry sprains his hair...IR for him, and Watson and Dede are the only RBs in camp...Alexander will look pretty attractive then to most folks. I am not one of them as I think he is as cooked as Rudi...

Alexander just needs to sit back and wait for the injury reports to tell him where he is needed and who will pay him.

[BengalszoneBilly]

he will get decent coin...$1.5-2M.

someone will get hurt and a team will pay him...maybe SF with Gore, maybe ATL with Turner, maybe STL with Jackson, or NYJ or maybe Cincy...someone will want him.

Seriously, out of those aforementioned teams, I see the Bengals inking him.

[bengalsfansince68]

Then, Perry sprains his hair...

That damned sprained hair, again?

I hate it when that happens.

Good one, King.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Shaun signed a 8 year, 62 million dollar contract less than 2 years ago. Including his 15 million in guarantees, he made close to 27 million over since he signed the deal. I highly doubt that he'll be signing a contract worth $477,000 per year, which is the veteran minimum. It might even be closer to the 2 year, 6 million dollar deal that Warrick Dunn signed with Tampa Bay this year, coming off a down season in Atlanta.

I agree he'll get a deal for above vet minimum, but that $62M contract he signed might as well have not happened. The last two years he's looked pretty bad, and the thinking is maybe having the best left side of a line in football in front of him helped more than people realized.

I say give him a look, but don't overpay.

[agreen_112]

Then, Perry sprains his hair...

That damned sprained hair, again?

I hate it when that happens.

Good one, King.

And you call yourself a fan? What a joke.

[BengalPimp]

The dude is GARBAGE...Plain and simple...

He is like a 1985 Mercedes, I mean yeah its a Mercedes, but its old and has a whole lotta miles on it...you know what i mean?

At this point in his career, he is nothing more than a name....You pay for performance, not a name.

Seriously, has anybody seen the way he's played(or hasnt played) the last 2 seasons?

But what I really dont understand, is all the people who say cut Rudi Johnson because of his decline the past couple of seasons, but they want

another RB on the same decline the past couple of seasons sign with the team.

.....Ridiculous....

[bwillycuse]

The dude is GARBAGE...Plain and simple...

He is like a 1985 Mercedes, I mean yeah its a Mercedes, but its old and has a whole lotta miles on it...you know what i mean?

At this point in his career, he is nothing more than a name....You pay for performance, not a name.

Seriously, has anybody seen the way he's played(or hasnt played) the last 2 seasons?

But what I really dont understand, is all the people who say cut Rudi Johnson because of his decline the past couple of seasons, but they want

another RB on the same decline the past couple of seasons sign with the team.

.....Ridiculous....

He outperformed Rudi...Take that for what its worth......Not much in either case.

[jonf45uk]

whats the score with kenny irons??- i've seen perry claiming to be fit, but haven't heard a lot about kenny.

will be interesting to see who gets cut as we still have a lot of rbs on the roster.

jon

[TJJackson]

There's actually been several mentions of Kenny Irons in the papers - all say the same thing - the word is that he will NOT be ready by training camp

[jjakq27]

There's actually been several mentions of Kenny Irons in the papers - all say the same thing - the word is that he will NOT be ready by training camp

I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up on IR for the year. If he is not completely healthy at the start of the year or can't play until midseason, I doubt that they hold a roster spot for him.