Palmer

[Barbarian]

Heap isn't the best TE in the game.

Really Kev??? In your opinion, who is??? Shockey, Gonzo???

WHO?????

[kevnz]

Heap isn't the best TE in the game.

Really Kev??? In your opinion, who is??? Shockey, Gonzo???

WHO?????

Shockey could be, but he ain't. Tony G I would say, but I'm pretty damn impressed by Crumpler in Atlanta too. The difference between those guys and Heap is that heap is the focus, those other guys are after thoughts, so that increases his numbers...I may very well have said Shannon Sharpe, but he went and retired.

I'd say he is in the top 5 though....

[HoosierCat]

Todd Heap is a very talented player. Is he the best TE in football? Shoot, I dunno -- but at a minimum he's the best TE, by far, in this division, and from a Bengals perspective that's bad enough to go on with.

I look at Heap and I see the next Frank Wycheck. He was the only reason the Tits had a passing game for all those years, and Heap could do the same thing in Baltimore. Heap and Jamal can carry the Ravens a looooong way. Ain't gonna win them the Super Bowl by themselves; they have to find at least one WR and hope Boller pans out before that happens...but credit where credit is due.

As for Boller v. Palmer predictions? Hmmm...wait a sec, let me root around in the closet here for a sec...ah! Here we go: [Homer Hat] Ravens Suck! Heap Sucks! Boller Sucks! Lewis Sucks! And that other Lewis Sucks, too! Billick Really Really Really Sucks! Baltimore Sucks And Smells Bad Too! www.ravenssuck.com RULES! GO BENGALS! PALMER RULES! MARVIN LEWIS IS GAWD! WHO DEY! WHO DEY! WHO DEY! [/Homer Hat] :player:

[BengalszoneBilly]

Holy s**t!! www.ravenssuck.com really does exsist!! Great stuff there!! Jam31 and Arizona should check this site out! Oh wait...Arizona lacked the tenacity to stick around here, and bowed out until the season starts.

[Northwest Bengal]

How pathetic, to have to go to other teams' message boards and interact with their fans! Good news must be pretty lean in Arizona!

[Bobcat Bengal]

nah, arizona's still lurking.....

[Jam31]

Heap isn't the best TE in the game.

Really Kev??? In your opinion, who is??? Shockey, Gonzo???

WHO?????

Shockey could be, but he ain't. Tony G I would say, but I'm pretty damn impressed by Crumpler in Atlanta too. The difference between those guys and Heap is that heap is the focus, those other guys are after thoughts, so that increases his numbers...I may very well have said Shannon Sharpe, but he went and retired.

I'd say he is in the top 5 though....

Kevnz: you really need a clue and I wont call you numbnuts because I dont want to hurt your feelings, seriously.

I dont mean to disrespect you but come on man? Why are you so damn contrary? I know its your nature being a Bengals fan but seriously dude, Arizona's post is ON THE MONEY>

You know what? The Tennesee game hurt, it was painful to lose by a field goal at home. Yup, it hurt like sh**.

But let me tell you, we are a young team a fact with which I repeatedly beat you over the head with and we are STACKED with probowlers and good to great NFL players. In my shoes, how can you not like my position better than yours?

Im not sitting here saying that you won't be us once or even twice next year. All Arizona and I are saying is that we are sitting pretty. You guys are inspired by faith in one 8-8 season. I can belittle that because you've only had ONE 8-8 season. But I try not too because I like Marvin Lewis and I respect him as a coach.

But seriously, the Ravens have the track record of all track records and you cannot deny me on that! Can you?

Im not even trying to talk trash to you here. And the whole Heap thing, in case anyone picked this up, Arizona and I modify our arguments with "arguably" because it is true. Heap, it can be argued legitimately, is the best TE in the league. We're not saying he IS. Just that you have to include him in the discussion.

Hell Arizona and I can boast that Ogden is the best left tackle of all-time and Ray is the greatest linebacker of all time but we dont. Just to be within reason which some on here do not grasp.

Name me a better safety than Ed Reed? Roy Williams? maybe now Sean Taylor?? John Lynch??

The bottom line is that the Ravens are stacked and while it may not translate into a Super Bowl title this season, we Ravens fans can be 100% secure in our upcoming performance and in drafting Kyle Boller based on our front office's track record.

Last but not least, Id argue that your contention that Heap gets more "stats" because he is the focus is off base as well. Heap suffers because he has proven to be our ONLY receiving threat.

Once one receiver be it Taylor or Johnson or whoever steps it up and you can't double Heap, his numbers will increase.

Im not asking for you guys to agree with everything Arizona and I say but you have to admit that we make LOGICAL arguments.

Not "your city is full of STDs" and "we are better because we have a 'second year' quarterback" who has not even taken a snap.

Reason is on the side of my Ravens and we will continue to argue accordingly. Not to be "d**ks*" but rather to keep you guys grounded in reality....

[kevnz]

Kevnz: you really need a clue and I wont call you numbnuts because I dont want to hurt your feelings, seriously.

I dont mean to disrespect you but come on man? Why are you so damn contrary? I know its your nature being a Bengals fan but seriously dude, Arizona's post is ON THE MONEY>

You know what? The Tennesee game hurt, it was painful to lose by a field goal at home. Yup, it hurt like sh**.

But let me tell you, we are a young team a fact with which I repeatedly beat you over the head with and we are STACKED with probowlers and good to great NFL players. In my shoes, how can you not like my position better than yours?

Im not sitting here saying that you won't be us once or even twice next year. All Arizona and I are saying is that we are sitting pretty. You guys are inspired by faith in one 8-8 season. I can belittle that because you've only had ONE 8-8 season. But I try not too because I like Marvin Lewis and I respect him as a coach.

But seriously, the Ravens have the track record of all track records and you cannot deny me on that! Can you?

Im not even trying to talk trash to you here. And the whole Heap thing, in case anyone picked this up, Arizona and I modify our arguments with "arguably" because it is true. Heap, it can be argued legitimately, is the best TE in the league. We're not saying he IS. Just that you have to include him in the discussion.

Hell Arizona and I can boast that Ogden is the best left tackle of all-time and Ray is the greatest linebacker of all time but we dont. Just to be within reason which some on here do not grasp.

Name me a better safety than Ed Reed? Roy Williams? maybe now Sean Taylor?? John Lynch??

The bottom line is that the Ravens are stacked and while it may not translate into a Super Bowl title this season, we Ravens fans can be 100% secure in our upcoming performance and in drafting Kyle Boller based on our front office's track record.

Last but not least, Id argue that your contention that Heap gets more "stats" because he is the focus is off base as well. Heap suffers because he has proven to be our ONLY receiving threat.

Once one receiver be it Taylor or Johnson or whoever steps it up and you can't double Heap, his numbers will increase.

Im not asking for you guys to agree with everything Arizona and I say but you have to admit that we make LOGICAL arguments.

Not "your city is full of STDs" and "we are better because we have a 'second year' quarterback" who has not even taken a snap.

Reason is on the side of my Ravens and we will continue to argue accordingly. Not to be "d**ks*" but rather to keep you guys grounded in reality....

You can argue things back and forth all day. all I'm saying is that if your team is so great, and you have all of these great players why didn't you beat a battered Titans team at home on top of it? Maybe just maybe your team and it's players are bit over rated? I've never said you didn't have a good team. But to say you have the track record of track records is crazy. Your team has had three winning seasons since it moved to Baltimore.

Also, I have never ever once said anything negative about the city of Baltimore, and I never will half of my family is from there.

I simply don't like your position beause of the QB situation. I laughed on draft day when your team traded to get him. For all the talk of offensive genius and Brian "I know QB's" Billick, Boeller is an Akili waiting to happen.

You just like to beat your chest and shout for joy...I can understand that...You lost the NFL (or had it stolen actually) and now that you guys have it back you are a bit blinded by the shiney colours that you see. That's cool. Enjoy it, but honestly if your team was so good you would have done more in the playoffs, cause that's when it counts...

Safety....Williams in Dallas, Harrison in NE just to name 2....Your secondary benefits from the pass rush you are able to generate. and hey, that's a good thing, it makes good players look better.

Left Tackle...I had to laugh at that one. Everyone that knows football knows the best LT of all time is in Canton wearing a Bengals jersey...deal with it.

Lewis...best linebacker...probably in the top 5, but not the top...take your fan boy glasses off

[Jam31]

You can argue things back and forth all day. all I'm saying is that if your team is so great, and you have all of these great players why didn't you beat a battered Titans team at home on top of it? Maybe just maybe your team and it's players are bit over rated? I've never said you didn't have a good team. But to say you have the track record of track records is crazy. Your team has had three winning seasons since it moved to Baltimore.

Also, I have never ever once said anything negative about the city of Baltimore, and I never will half of my family is from there.

I simply don't like your position beause of the QB situation. I laughed on draft day when your team traded to get him. For all the talk of offensive genius and Brian "I know QB's" Billick, Boeller is an Akili waiting to happen.

You just like to beat your chest and shout for joy...I can understand that...You lost the NFL (or had it stolen actually) and now that you guys have it back you are a bit blinded by the shiney colours that you see. That's cool. Enjoy it, but honestly if your team was so good you would have done more in the playoffs, cause that's when it counts...

Safety....Williams in Dallas, Harrison in NE just to name 2....Your secondary benefits from the pass rush you are able to generate. and hey, that's a good thing, it makes good players look better.

Left Tackle...I had to laugh at that one. Everyone that knows football knows the best LT of all time is in Canton wearing a Bengals jersey...deal with it.

Lewis...best linebacker...probably in the top 5, but not the top...take your fan boy glasses off 

OK, but tell me how was Tennesee battered? We didn't have Boulware or Thomas, 2 probowlers. If anything we were at the disadvantage. They wore us down by running at the edges (Suggs who was inexperienced as a run stopping linebacker) and it cost us.

I meant track record in drafting as Arizona laid out. Our drafting track record is untouchable.

I also never said that you bashed Baltimore, I was speaking more towards other posters on here.

RE our respective positions, the bottom line to me is that Boller has to be maybe the 20th best player on our team. Palmer has to jump right in and be the 2nd or 3rd best player on your team.

Again, I believe in team-building and there once was a time when Super Bowl champions lost in the playoffs before they took the next step. Id like to think my boys will savor that flavor of bitter defeat and redeem themselves next season. We lost by a field goal. I know a loss is a loss but I am not going to hang my head in shame over their performance in that game.

I grew up watching Munoz and the Bengals so I know all about him, but Ogden is at least the best tackle since him. He gives up 2 or 3 sacks a season.

And I will never relent on the Ray Lewis debate. He is the best linebacker ever

[LABengalsFan09]

Now this is a rivalry boys....

The 'Nati and Baltimore...does it get any more exciting than bad blood?

I can't wait to see Boller and his terrible college and pro completion % this year... Delta and Tory are going to be jumping in front of everything, when its not sailing over Ravens' receivers heads... I watched Boller play in the Pac-10, and never once did he look impressive...Ask Suggs, he dined on the guy!!!! Don't worry B-more, your 11 pro-bowlers had you in the race until the last week of the year with our 2 all-stars. To me, The ravens are like the Japanese in Pearl Harbor. All I'm afraid you have done is awaken a sleeping giant. In 2004 the Bengals will ROAR!

Who-Dey :player: :player: :player:

[Bobcat Bengal]

I watched Boller play in the Pac-10, and never once did he look impressive...Ask Suggs, he dined on the guy!!!!

Who-Dey :player: :player: :player:

Maybe thats because you're probably an Trojans fan....

[LABengalsFan09]

Yes, I am a Trojans' fan. But look at Bollers completion percentage, barely over 50% his "great" senior year. Plus, they didn't beat anybody special, either. My buddy who went to Cal and works for the NFL network said he is highly overrated! Weathersby and T-Rob were probably excited when they heard he was a Raven and they were Bengals... :player:

[kevnz]

OK, but tell me how was Tennesee battered? We didn't have Boulware or Thomas, 2 probowlers. If anything we were at the disadvantage. They wore us down by running at the edges (Suggs who was inexperienced as a run stopping linebacker) and it cost us.

I meant track record in drafting as Arizona laid out. Our drafting track record is untouchable.

Name 1 good WR you guys have drafted???? Come on now....

Come on, the titans almost had to roll McNair out on a stretcher he was so beaten up. The Titans had no running game all season but they beat you guys running the ball? Some defense. You lost that game cause your offense is worse than terrible and you couldn't stop the run....That wins championships don't it? If your team is so deep and so talented how come you couldn't compensate for losing 2 guys? You're stacked aren't you? Everybody has to deal with injuries, so what makes your team so special that two guys (and if I'm not mistaken i think Boulware had been out a few weeks before that game too?) go down and it's okay to lose?

[El dubaya]

Heap isn't the best TE in the game.

Really Kev??? In your opinion, who is??? Shockey, Gonzo???

WHO?????

Shockey could be, but he ain't. Tony G I would say, but I'm pretty damn impressed by Crumpler in Atlanta too. The difference between those guys and Heap is that heap is the focus, those other guys are after thoughts, so that increases his numbers...I may very well have said Shannon Sharpe, but he went and retired.

I'd say he is in the top 5 though....

Kevnz: you really need a clue and I wont call you numbnuts because I dont want to hurt your feelings, seriously.

I dont mean to disrespect you but come on man? Why are you so damn contrary? I know its your nature being a Bengals fan but seriously dude, Arizona's post is ON THE MONEY>

You know what? The Tennesee game hurt, it was painful to lose by a field goal at home. Yup, it hurt like sh**.

But let me tell you, we are a young team a fact with which I repeatedly beat you over the head with and we are STACKED with probowlers and good to great NFL players. In my shoes, how can you not like my position better than yours?

Im not sitting here saying that you won't be us once or even twice next year. All Arizona and I are saying is that we are sitting pretty. You guys are inspired by faith in one 8-8 season. I can belittle that because you've only had ONE 8-8 season. But I try not too because I like Marvin Lewis and I respect him as a coach.

But seriously, the Ravens have the track record of all track records and you cannot deny me on that! Can you?

Im not even trying to talk trash to you here. And the whole Heap thing, in case anyone picked this up, Arizona and I modify our arguments with "arguably" because it is true. Heap, it can be argued legitimately, is the best TE in the league. We're not saying he IS. Just that you have to include him in the discussion.

Hell Arizona and I can boast that Ogden is the best left tackle of all-time and Ray is the greatest linebacker of all time but we dont. Just to be within reason which some on here do not grasp.

Name me a better safety than Ed Reed? Roy Williams? maybe now Sean Taylor?? John Lynch??

The bottom line is that the Ravens are stacked and while it may not translate into a Super Bowl title this season, we Ravens fans can be 100% secure in our upcoming performance and in drafting Kyle Boller based on our front office's track record.

Last but not least, Id argue that your contention that Heap gets more "stats" because he is the focus is off base as well. Heap suffers because he has proven to be our ONLY receiving threat.

Once one receiver be it Taylor or Johnson or whoever steps it up and you can't double Heap, his numbers will increase.

Im not asking for you guys to agree with everything Arizona and I say but you have to admit that we make LOGICAL arguments.

Not "your city is full of STDs" and "we are better because we have a 'second year' quarterback" who has not even taken a snap.

Reason is on the side of my Ravens and we will continue to argue accordingly. Not to be "d**ks*" but rather to keep you guys grounded in reality....

anthony munoz is the best left tackle of all time

[Jam31]

Name 1 good WR you guys have drafted???? Come on now....

Come on, the titans almost had to roll McNair out on a stretcher he was so beaten up. The Titans had no running game all season but they beat you guys running the ball? Some defense. You lost that game cause your offense is worse than terrible and you couldn't stop the run....That wins championships don't it? If your team is so deep and so talented how come you couldn't compensate for losing 2 guys? You're stacked aren't you? Everybody has to deal with injuries, so what makes your team so special that two guys (and if I'm not mistaken i think Boulware had been out a few weeks before that game too?) go down and it's okay to lose?

OK look I have never said that the Titans did not beat us. They manned up and beat us and I am man enough to admit that. However it was by a field goal that barely had enough distance.

Now I am NOT making excuses, I will always say that Tennesee wanted it more than us and took care of business.

All Im saying is that you can't call Tennesee banged up when in reality we were.

Its "okay to lose" if you want to call it that, because as I have repeatedly stated, we are the 3rd youngest team in the league. We aren't going anywhere.

Anyway Arizona "went away" for awhile because of these arguments. All we can really do is agree to disagree and that's fine but you're argument is the bottom line that we lost in the playoffs. My argument is that bottom line we won the division and we are the 3rd youngest team in the league.

Id rather be a Ravens fan precisely for my answer to your orginal question posted above. OK we have drafted Travis Taylor (a solid NFL starter) and I could (IM NOT SERIOUSLY ARGUING HERE) argue that we drafted Devard Darling and he will be a good one. This is the equivalent to what you guys are doing with your draft picks. Madieu Williams does not scare anyone in the NFL, the other guys you drafted as far as I am concerned (including Perry) are reaches. Im not saying they won't pan out just that the Ravens/Ozzie Newsome have had the most productive drafts since their "inception" in 1996.

The Ravens have a track record of drafting great players. Your Bengals however have not drafted basically one decent player outside of the receiver position.

Ill let you have the last word now.

There's Nothing Better Than Being A Baltimore Raven's Fan!!!

[Scottishbengal]

There's Nothing Better Than Being A Baltimore Raven's Fan!!!

How about having your plums nailed to a board, dowsed in petrol and set alight, only to have the full troupe of The Lancashire Clog Dancing Society attempt to stamp out the flames whilst wearing their heavy, lead soled hobnail clogs.

Then having your wife declare she's going to leave you and run off with a tax man, who himself presents you with an enormous tax demand - payable immediately.

[LABengalsFan09]

"How about having your plums nailed to a board, dowsed in petrol and set alight, only to have the full troupe of The Lancashire Clog Dancing Society attempt to stamp out the flames whilst wearing their heavy, lead soled hobnail clogs.

Then having your wife declare she's going to leave you and run off with a tax man, who himself presents you with an enormous tax demand - payable immediately. "

I don't know, I love me plums mahn. Ah who cares...that's better than be a Billick fan...I hate him!

Who-Dey

[Bobcat Bengal]

"How about having your plums nailed to a board, dowsed in petrol and set alight, only to have the full troupe of The Lancashire Clog Dancing Society attempt to stamp out the flames whilst wearing their heavy, lead soled hobnail clogs.

Then having your wife declare she's going to leave you and run off with a tax man, who himself presents you with an enormous tax demand - payable immediately. "

I don't know, I love me plums mahn. Ah who cares...that's better than be a Billick fan...I hate him!

Who-Dey

so what do you think about Leinart LA?

You think he's better than Palmer?

Or it is the USC system?

[LABengalsFan09]

"so what do you think about Leinart LA?

You think he's better than Palmer?

Or it is the USC system? "

Good questions Terry/Kelley...

Matt Leinart is an outstanding QB, but he was also surrounded by all-world talent last year @ USC, it will be interesting to see how he fares W/O Mike Williams, Keary Colbert, Winston Justice, and Jacob Rogers... A lot has to be said about the fact he got his first start @ Auburn, and led the team to a fairly easy victory. Sure I think the system helps him, but not like the old Florida system or what is currently being run @ Texas Tech to put up huge numbers with BJ Symmons and Kliff Kingsbury before him. I wouldn't put him in Palmer's class just yet, but there is definitely some statistical points that draw the comparisons. If Mike Williams returns this fall, Leinart or Williams would have to factor in heavily in the Heisman race, possibly cancelling each other out so that Darren Sproles would take it.

Life-long USC and Bengals fan...what could be better than Palmer to the Bengals?!?!?!?!?!?

Kenechi Udeze or Will Poole would have been real nice...Let's wait a couple years for the SS Darnell Bing... :player: