For once I agree with Peter King

[DuffMan]

This is from SI.com and Peter King's combine notes:

"This year's unknown offensive lineman about to strike it rich, a la Derrick Dockery a year ago: Jaguar tackle/guard Mo Williams. Detroit could be interested there ... This year's smart franchise tag that looked really stupid at first: Cincinnati's 6-7, 340-pound guard Stacy Andrews, who would have been a $7-million-a-year player somewhere (maybe Atlanta) had he tasted freedom..."

[HoosierCat]

...and that's why a long-term deal with the Dancing Bull won't come cheap. If the Bengals want him for the duration, they are going to have to give him a deal that makes his bro Shaun crap Eagle poop when he gets Stacy's call.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

If Peter King thinks it's a good idea, it's officially dumb. For this to make sense, Andrews has to be the RT of the future. I think that prospect is exceptionally questionable based on his play. I'd rather have picked up a RG cheaper somewhere and shifted Whitworth back ot RT where he belongs.

The fact that some other team would way overspend on him is irrelevant if we don't want to pay him. If the Bengals give him a long-term deal comparable to what he'd get on the open market from the dumbest, most desperate team trying to find a half-ass tackle in FA...that ain't smart.

This cascade of dumb deals that started with the signing of Willie over Steinbach has to end somewhere, and it can't be with the Bengals making Stacy Andrews one of the cornerstones of the franchise.

Because the point I keep making over all the rest of the salary cap machinations is this:

He sucks.

[HoTbOy]

I would have to agree somewhat in that if you do that the guy should be able to play right tackle and not just a guard...I just hope the Bengals know what they are doing because like i said before did he make the PB and I missed it...I did not see him being tagged, his play IMO did not warrant this, but the Bengals see him everyday, so I hope they know what they are doing...

[ShulaSteakhouse]

I "might" feel differently if the Bengals' hadn't already invested a mint in Jones and old Willie. Should've let Andrews go and drafted a high ceiling OT on day one.

Paying Andrews $7 mil a year after one year as a starter, and an average one at that, is silly.

There are two things teams see - one is the misleading lack of sacks given up (Palmer and the WR's and the RB's deserve more credit for that than the o-line with exception of 2-3 games), and the other is the fact lineman leave the Bengals and immediately become better players with a real 0-line coach and a better system/talent around them. Who wouldn't want another pro bowl caliber Goff or Steinbach in FA? Other teams put a premium on their interior lineman and o-line over-all, unlike the Bengals, who only value tackles.

[HoosierCat]

This cascade of dumb deals that started with the signing of Willie over Steinbach has to end somewhere, and it can't be with the Bengals making Stacy Andrews one of the cornerstones of the franchise.

Because the point I keep making over all the rest of the salary cap machinations is this:

He sucks.

Yeah, it can, and no, he doesn't.

[GregCook]

This cascade of dumb deals that started with the signing of Willie over Steinbach has to end somewhere, and it can't be with the Bengals making Stacy Andrews one of the cornerstones of the franchise.

Because the point I keep making over all the rest of the salary cap machinations is this:

He sucks.

Yeah, it can, and no, he doesn't.

Stacy is no pro bowler, not yet, but with him and Whitworth the Bengals have guys that play well everywhere except center. The line did an excellent job keeping Carson upright, very important. Stacy will only get better. Willie is on his last legs now, it would be crazy to lose Stacy now. Better to keep him this year, see if a RT is available in round 2-3 in a draft loaded with good prospects on the OL. Don't forget, the goal of this year's draft is to reload on defense. Lose Stacy now and they will be forced to take one in Rnd 1, what about reloading on D?

[HoosierCat]

A tidbit from Czarnecki's combine coverage...

Nobody could figure out why the Bengals placed the franchise tag on guard Stacy Andrews until I heard that five teams had him targeted in free-agency, and that he was the No. 1 prospect of the Falcons. For years, being an offensive lineman has been the best position in the NFL for collecting big paychecks. Guards now are being paid like left tackles — consider that the Seahawks have $12 million invested next season in Sean Locklear and Mike Wahle, who played like a stiff in Carolina last season.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7837770?MSNHPHMA

[HairOnFire]

If Peter King thinks it's a good idea, it's officially dumb.

Normally I'd agree with you, but the idea that Andrews was going to be a coveted free agent isn't King's idea. Most Bengal fans were well aware of it long before King and Czarnecki confirmed that multiple teams were about to engage in a bidding war for his services.

I know pet theories die hard but those of you who continue to whine about the Bengals placing a tag on Andrews need to bury your gripes in the backyard. He doesn't suck, as evidenced by the number of teams that were interested in throwing bags of money at him, and it's obvious that he's a very important part of the Bengals plans for the future.

[Pidge]

The Jets in particular were miffed he was tagged I think. Been on their radar for a while.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

If Peter King thinks it's a good idea, it's officially dumb.

Normally I'd agree with you, but the idea that Andrews was going to be a coveted free agent isn't King's idea. Most Bengal fans were well aware of it long before King and Czarnecki confirmed that multiple teams were about to engage in a bidding war for his services.

I know pet theories die hard but those of you who continue to while about the Bengals placing a tag on Andrews need to bury your gripes in the backyard. He doesn't suck, as evidenced by the number of teams that were interested in throwing bags of money at him, and it's obvious that he's a very important part of the Bengals plans for the future.

Just because many teams go after a guy in FA doesn't mean he's good. Especially at the tackle position, how many times have we seen chumps get massive contracts in FA? The reason is because only chump tackles even GET to FA.

I still claim he sucks. Even anecdotally, I'd love to hear evidence along the lines of something good that Andrews did in a game. As opposed to, say, false starts or something. All I remember was penalties and not much push.

[skyline]

The bottom line is that we really can't afford to lose him this season. Especially since Willie's health is such a question mark, and Andrews is such a versatile player.

Sure, we could try to replace him through the draft, but we need someone who is ready now, not a year from now. Plus, that's yet another pick not spent on defense. We may end up drafting an o-lineman anyway, but we'll wait and see on that one.

[HairOnFire]

Just because many teams go after a guy in FA doesn't mean he's good. Especially at the tackle position, how many times have we seen chumps get massive contracts in FA? The reason is because only chump tackles even GET to FA.

The hard truth of the matter is teams have learned how important it's become to retain their own free agents at all costs....a strategy that increasingly means tagging their own players. As a result the players who do become free agents are overvalued precisely because they represent the last and best manner to add talent with no strings attached. That said, the hard choice that all teams face from time to time is whether to overpay for their own free agent talent or overpay for a replacement cast off by other teams. The Bengals chose the former...and they did so for all of the same reasons that would have been applauded by Falcon or Jet fans had Andrews signed with their teams.

I still claim he sucks. Even anecdotally, I'd love to hear evidence along the lines of something good that Andrews did in a game.

So you don't consider the fact that at least five teams had targeted him in an overpriced free agent market as anecdotal evidence of his talent and value?

[HairOnFire]

Sure, we could try to replace him through the draft, but we need someone who is ready now, not a year from now. Plus, that's yet another pick not spent on defense.

There it is. And for all of the talk about replacing this guy or that guy with a draft pick there's simply not enough of them, especially when the offense keeps demanding another RB, another WR, another offensive lineman, or that TE that everyone thinks will be the final piece of the puzzle, and it's only consider the final piece until another offensive starter....or backup.... is lost to injury or free agency.

[TJJackson]

Well, if he isn't signed to a cap-friendlier longer term deal by July, I'd still say this move is an utter failure.

Investing in the future is all good and well as long as "the future" is not just this year

That said....they've been trying to sign him long term for over a year now without success.....my confidence that this gets done by July is minimal.

[skyline]

Well, if he isn't signed to a cap-friendlier longer term deal by July, I'd still say this move is an utter failure.

Investing in the future is all good and well as long as "the future" is not just this year

That said....they've been trying to sign him long term for over a year now without success.....my confidence that this gets done by July is minimal.

If the team has serious hopes of going to the Super Bowl this year, then THIS year is the most important future they have to consider. THIS year, the Bengals will be a lot better with Andrews than they would be without him. Of course, you still want to sign him long term. If that doesn't happen, though, then you've at least taken care of yourself for the present. Perhaps they'll draft a talented young guy this year, and by next year they'll be in a position where they can let Andrews walk.

Now, if you don't think the Super Bowl is going to happen, then by all means...let him go now. In two seasons or so, we may get back to where we currently are as far as the o-line is concerned. Sounds like a fantastic plan to me.

[Pidge]

The Superbowl? I'll settle for a winning record at this point. We're a substantial amount of work via the next couple of drafts and FA periods away from even thinking about going anywhere but one and done in the playoffs. IMO.

[skyline]

The Superbowl? I'll settle for a winning record at this point. We're a substantial amount of work via the next couple of drafts and FA periods away from even thinking about going anywhere but one and done in the playoffs. IMO.

Whatever the reality may be, you've got to shoot for the top, right? Besides...in the NFL, there's no telling. If our offense returns to form, and we manage to have a top 20 defense, that could be enough. Wishful thinking, probably, but that's how the franchise has got to be run.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

The Jets are pissed because they probably thought Stacey would be a bargain on the market and can't believe the Bengals actually tagged him.

[bengalsfansince68]

I still claim he sucks. Even anecdotally, I'd love to hear evidence along the lines of something good that Andrews did in a game. As opposed to, say, false starts or something. All I remember was penalties and not much push.

WOW!! The short-sighted among us are everywhere. Something good that Stacey did in a game? You gotta be either kidding or blind. Stacey and Whit in tandem, held our line together last year. Each of them played pretty admirably at 3 different positions. Christ, Stacey would start a game at RT and by the second series be forced to move to LG. Our line was a pf**king carousel. The only guy who was able to practice and play at the same position all year was B. Wlliams. Making the pro-bowl is a pretty tall order for most players, our fans opinions notwithstanding. I would submit that making a pro-bowl while having to practice 3 different positions every day, would be a daunting task that few players could live up to.

I have asked the question before...

I ask it again...

What the hell did you people expect under the circumstances in '07?

[ShulaSteakhouse]

The Superbowl? I'll settle for a winning record at this point. We're a substantial amount of work via the next couple of drafts and FA periods away from even thinking about going anywhere but one and done in the playoffs. IMO.

It's funny Bengals' fans are conditioned to think this way annually, despite having a top 5 QB and WR, a supposably "great" o-line, 3 capable RB's, 3 franchise OT's, a top 10 draft pick + compensatory picks, a big bucks DE not far removed from a 13 sack year, two promising 1st round CB's with experience and a nickel corner was a Pro Bowl starter in 2005, a promising young SS, and rougly $25 mil under the cap.

Yep, lots of work there, just not quite there yet, better not set the bar too high or anything.

[Pidge]

The Superbowl? I'll settle for a winning record at this point. We're a substantial amount of work via the next couple of drafts and FA periods away from even thinking about going anywhere but one and done in the playoffs. IMO.

Whatever the reality may be, you've got to shoot for the top, right? Besides...in the NFL, there's no telling. If our offense returns to form, and we manage to have a top 20 defense, that could be enough. Wishful thinking, probably, but that's how the franchise has got to be run.

True enough, which is why I didn't totally hate the tagging of Stacey. Even if it does turn out to be a one year thing. Our line isn't as strong as many believe IMO, although it isn't bad in anyway. Willie is a concern as well so Stacey and Whit are worth their weight in gold.

I'd be more hopeful of having a defense in the top 20 this upcoming season if we in any way looked to be trying to make some moves in FA as well as the draft. Same old same old most likely though.

As you say though, you never know which way the wind will blow until the season starts. The only disadvantage we have right now is being an AFC team and not an NFC team.

[Pidge]

The Superbowl? I'll settle for a winning record at this point. We're a substantial amount of work via the next couple of drafts and FA periods away from even thinking about going anywhere but one and done in the playoffs. IMO.

It's funny Bengals' fans are conditioned to think this way annually, despite having a top 5 QB and WR, a supposably "great" o-line, 3 capable RB's, 3 franchise OT's, a top 10 draft pick + compensatory picks, a big bucks DE not far removed from a 13 sack year, two promising 1st round CB's with experience and a nickel corner was a Pro Bowl starter in 2005, a promising young SS, and rougly $25 mil under the cap.

Yep, lots of work there, just not quite there yet, better not set the bar too high or anything.

I can't tell whether you agree with me or disagree. I get that sarcasm is meant to be a factor in your post but I'm still not sure which to way to read it.

[HairOnFire]

The Jets are pissed because they probably thought Stacey would be a bargain on the market and can't believe the Bengals actually tagged him.

The tag may or may not have have been unexpected, but there's no way any team should have expected Andrews to be a bargain. He would have had a half dozen teams, or more, bidding for his services...and driving his price up.

[BengalByTheBay]

The Superbowl? I'll settle for a winning record at this point. We're a substantial amount of work via the next couple of drafts and FA periods away from even thinking about going anywhere but one and done in the playoffs. IMO.

It's funny Bengals' fans are conditioned to think this way annually, despite having a top 5 QB and WR, a supposably "great" o-line, 3 capable RB's, 3 franchise OT's, a top 10 draft pick + compensatory picks, a big bucks DE not far removed from a 13 sack year, two promising 1st round CB's with experience and a nickel corner was a Pro Bowl starter in 2005, a promising young SS, and rougly $25 mil under the cap.

Yep, lots of work there, just not quite there yet, better not set the bar too high or anything.

I can't tell whether you agree with me or disagree. I get that sarcasm is meant to be a factor in your post but I'm still not sure which to way to read it.

Allow me to translate -- you and all other Bengals fans are douches for believing anything said by ownership. The coaches, players (except when it suits as above) and owner all suck, but you should still expect to win the superbowl or you're just one more lackey.