Marvin's drafts/Marvin's worst 5

[nechemia]

Sorry to dwell on the negative, but i was just thinking how unbelievable it is that in 5 NFL drafts, Marvin Lewis had not drafted ONE....ONE pro bowl player (except Carson Palmer, but he doesn't count because he was more or less the consenus #1 pick that year) Can someone please correct me if I am wrong. Injuries and suspensions aside, and forget the pro bowl, how about ONE impact player, ONE... Geathers? eh, depressing man, this team has been coasting for years on the talents of pre-marvin drafts. I am curious what someone else can do with the talent that Lewis walked into. anyone else?

[AnonymousBengalFan]

Sorry to dwell on the negative, but i was just thinking how unbelievable it is that in 5 NFL drafts, Marvin Lewis had not drafted ONE....ONE pro bowl player (except Carson Palmer, but he doesn't count because he was more or less the consenus #1 pick that year) Can someone please correct me if I am wrong. Injuries and suspensions aside, and forget the pro bowl, how about ONE impact player, ONE... Geathers? eh, depressing man, this team has been coasting for years on the talents of pre-marvin drafts. I am curious what someone else can do with the talent that Lewis walked into. anyone else?

I agree with you to some extent. I feel that there was talent on hand when Marvin arrived and for the most part I think we've watched that talent slowly be turned over by Marvin. If they cut Willie loose there will be another one gone. One thought that I have is that Cincy tries to hard to come up with sleeper or high potential players that they are going to nurture or bring along that will end up being a good player. (i.e. Andrews, Fanane, Rucker) Many teams can't really afford to do this and I wonder how productive it is for Cincinnati. Is this worthwhiole or are they deliberately trying to be cheap?

On the other hand, I can't recall but didn't Odel Thurman have a probowl year in his rookie season. I don't know if he got the vote but his tackling and 5 interceptions loomed large that year.

[kingwilly]

I don't consider the success of a draft based on how many Pro Bowl players are produced. It is about the starters and wins.

As for ML's drafts, he has been jammed with injuries and character issues. The biggest thing to me has been his willingness to roll the dice on questionable dudes. As we have seen, it is just not worth it.

[kurgan74]

It is also an indictment to how small the scouting department is. It is time for the team to expand the scouting department.

[ArmyBengal]

How many people are still around from pre-Marvin ?? Not many, so I don't think it is able to be argued that we have been coasting on pre-Marvin draft picks... Some of our pro-bowlers have been brought in via free agency. Are you willing to give credit to Marvin for bringing them in when he did ?? Tory James, Deltha Oneil, and Shayne Graham come to mind. Just saying...

WHODEY !!!

[nechemia]

How many people are still around from pre-Marvin ?? Not many, so I don't think it is able to be argued that we have been coasting on pre-Marvin draft picks... Some of our pro-bowlers have been brought in via free agency. Are you willing to give credit to Marvin for bringing them in when he did ?? Tory James, Deltha Oneil, and Shayne Graham come to mind. Just saying...

WHODEY !!!

When I say "coasting on pre-Marvin picks", I am referring to 5 players: CJ, TJ, Rudi, Willie A, and Levi J, (again, not including Carson who was the consenus #1 that year, but who actually has been most responsible for whatever success we have had under Marvin)....When someone else says, look at how many people are still around from before Marvin, it means very little. Anybody can draft bodies, "starters" is a very relative word. I mean how many of our "starters" would be starting on any playoff team. I can tell you exactly, the same players as mentioned above....and MAYBE Geathers, M. Williams, J Joseph, L Hall, J Johnson, A Whitworth.....you see as soon as those 5 players started getting hurt or playing poorly, the team went down with them, thats what I mean

[GregCook]

I say "coasting on pre-Marvin picks", I am referring to 5 players: CJ, TJ, Rudi, Willie A, and Levi J, (again, not including Carson who was the consenus #1 that year, but who actually has been most responsible for whatever success we have had under Marvin)....When someone else says, look at how many people are still around from before Marvin, it means very little. Anybody can draft bodies, "starters" is a very relative word. I mean how many of our "starters" would be starting on any playoff team. I can tell you exactly, the same players as mentioned above....and MAYBE Geathers, M. Williams, J Joseph, L Hall, J Johnson, A Whitworth.....you see as soon as those 5 players started getting hurt or playing poorly, the team went down with them, thats what I mean

Right.

Look at why, its not lacking PB caliber players its lacking players from the draft. Look at the 2004 Draft class. Most aren't on the team or didn't play. Then the Day 1 2005 draft didn't play this season. What has saved the Bengals is one Carson Palmer and the really good late round picks they've had before and during the Marvin era. You're right about lacking depth, they just don't have it.

Off topic, but watching the playoffs was so depressing. Seeing the intensity, skill, playing up to the stakes made me realize how far the Bengals are from the playoffs. Marvin is right, blowing it up is the way to go.

Lots of guys need to go this year and load up with angry young men with chips on their shoulders in the draft and FA(drug addicts not welcomed however).

[cincyhokie]

I'll give Marvin the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the draft picks because I think Mike Brown has more in the decision of draft picks than we think.

The real problem is that we have drafted defense in the higher rounds, except 2004, we then place these higher draft picks into a defense that sucks. The reason it sucks is the Bengals have not addressed the DT position EVER. The fact that year after year we place Thorton and Robinson in the starting lineup keeps this defense from getting pressure on the QB. The opposing offenses have the advantage and there is NO player in the NFL that are going to come out of college and excel in this defense and THEN make the Pro Bowl. Not going to happen. Thurman may have come the closest but we know what happened to him.

Address and fix the front 4 and we're going to have a much better defense. Then Hall and Joseph and Ndukwe WILL have a chance to make the Pro Bowl.

[nechemia]

Here are the five worst picks of the Marvin Lewis era (and still drive me crazy when i think about them):

1) Frostee Rucker, he had bust written all over him before he even got to his first training camp and has done nothing to prove otherwise, meanwhile other established college DE's that year who the Bengals could have had, i.e. Mark Anderson, continued to flourish in the NFL, jesus, if you are too cheap to hire more scouts, watch some f-ing Sortscenter or something, so you'll know who is good....plus anyone named Frostee shouldn't go before the 5th round

2)Kenny Irons, what do you do when your former #1 pick RB, i.e. Chris Perry, can't get on the field because he is so freaking brittle? You ignore addressing the worst Defense in the NFL, which you assembled, and take a tiny, injury-prone RB with your 2nd round pick to replace him, who then proceeds to blow out his knee in his first pre-season game, shocking, plus it turns out that if Marvin could evaluate talent, he would have seen that the team would have been fine with Watson, Dorsey, and very occassionally Rudi Johnson, until Perry comes back.....way to go Marv, great pick, speaking of.......

3)Chris Perry, I actually like Chris Perry, and I still am optimistic that he will be good, possibly real good, as long as they can fit him with a full-length protective body cast when he plays that also allows some movement. It is just that when they could have taken S. Jackson with the same pick, we are talking about a dynasty right now, and possibly 1 or 2 Super Bowls, despite the worst defense in the NFL, that is insane....you suck Marv, it was right there for the taking, what was the quote, I believe it was "we wanted someone who fits our sytem"

4)Kewain Ratliff, (I think that is how you spell it), when someone is slow coming out of college, they are not likely to become faster once they get to the NFL, last I saw he was cut by th Bucs....nice one Marv, no wonder you were a defensive guru

5)Jeff Rowe, is there any reason in the world to think that this guy will be better or more valuable than Casey Bramlet, Ryan Fitzpatrick, or any number of scrubs you can plug into this position should Carson go down, someone needs to let Marv know he has the worst defense in the NFL, they can't afford to be drafting back up QB's who he will probably cut in a year or two

thoughts?

[AMC]

Way off.

1) Odell Thurman

2) Chris Perry

3) Matthias Askew

4) Caleb Miller

5) Keiwan Ratliff

Best Picks Given Time

1) N Duke

2) Ethan Kilmer

3) Whitworth

4) Marvin White

5) Geathers

[Bobcat Bengal]

(sigh)

Looks like we got another Bengals.com transplant.......

Bring on the complaining and negativity.

Cmon man, Kenny Irons? Can the dude get a redshirt season at least?

I just hope you don't decide to bring anymore of your fellow posters with you.

[MARVIN=W'S]

Khalid Abdullah

Dennis Weathersby

and the dude who went to central mich who has been hurt since he got here, lineman.

enough said.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I was highly annoyed by the Irons pick before I saw two things:

1) he looked decent in extremely limited action before his injury, and

2) before realizing just how much of a toll Rudi's tough carries might be having.

So I'd rather not have blown a 2nd round pick on him, but do remember that defense got absolutely cleaned out right before we picked. I wasn't ecstatic about the pick, but, meh. Not the worst. I'm not going to play the injury card, nobody could have predicted that.

It's also tough to evaluate picking because drafting is such an inexact science. So do you grade on results or on what they should have known?

Ratmeat looks like crap now, but spending a 2nd rounder on a DB looked like a good idea then. Weathersby looked like a steal at the time, we didn't know that life was going to take a crap on him.

The most utterly indefensible is Frostee. Waste a 3rd on a slow DE who had a long list of character issues against him, including being accused of sexual assault, being kicked out of school, and word hitting the street right BEFORE the draft that he was going to be charged. I almost threw large objects at the TV when I heard the pick.

Next on my list is Perry. Spending a 1st on a RB then when we needed D so bad was insane. I won't blame them for not knowing he would be constantly injured.

[damiancasey]

(sigh)

Looks like we got another Bengals.com transplant.......

Bring on the complaining and negativity.

Cmon man, Kenny Irons? Can the dude get a redshirt season at least?

I just hope you don't decide to bring anymore of your fellow posters with you.

Couldn't agree more...this subject/bashing is getting very old...give it a rest.

[nechemia]

(sigh)

Looks like we got another Bengals.com transplant.......

Bring on the complaining and negativity.

Cmon man, Kenny Irons? Can the dude get a redshirt season at least?

I just hope you don't decide to bring anymore of your fellow posters with you.

here is some more negativity, you are kind of a tool dude, say something interesting

[COB]

Couldn't agree more...this subject/bashing is getting very old...give it a rest.

Seconded.

[HairOnFire]

Cancer.

I don't like it.

No sir.

Thoughts?

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Cancer.

I don't like it.

No sir.

Thoughts?

I like it. Weeds out the weak.

[Bobcat Bengal]

(sigh)

Looks like we got another Bengals.com transplant.......

Bring on the complaining and negativity.

Cmon man, Kenny Irons? Can the dude get a redshirt season at least?

I just hope you don't decide to bring anymore of your fellow posters with you.

here is some more negativity, you are kind of a tool dude, say something interesting

well click on my link, and see if I have anything interesting to say....

for starters, a couple of posters co-signed my comment.

secondly, your inauguration on this board begins with you complaining like a typical Bengal fan, and you call ME a tool?

whatever.

[COB]

Cancer.

I don't like it.

No sir.

Thoughts?

"To date, Cancer is a disappointment. For mankind, it's been a tough patch so far dealing with Cancer. But I'm confident we're on the right track.

Inter-arterial chemotherapy has a Grade-A motor, but there aren't many King Kongs. We've almost got the oxcart out of the ditch, but it's really loaded up with Cancer, so it's heavy.

What we need is a world-class research oncologist with a couple decades clinical experience in treating pancreatitis. But I'm just going to give the job to my nephew instead. He's a bright kid (14th in his class at Moeller, Class of '07!), so we should be ok." - Mike Brown, President, Southeast Section, American Cancer Society.

[Bobcat Bengal]

THat was a LONG way for a laugh, dude.

I applaud your effort though.

[HoosierCat]

Cancer.

I don't like it.

No sir.

Thoughts?

"To date, Cancer is a disappointment. For mankind, it's been a tough patch so far dealing with Cancer. But I'm confident we're on the right track.

Inter-arterial chemotherapy has a Grade-A motor, but there aren't many King Kongs. We've almost got the oxcart out of the ditch, but it's really loaded up with Cancer, so it's heavy.

What we need is a world-class research oncologist with a couple decades clinical experience in treating pancreatitis. But I'm just going to give the job to my nephew instead. He's a bright kid (14th in his class at Moeller, Class of '07!), so we should be ok." - Mike Brown, President, Southeast Section, American Cancer Society.