What has changed in the last two years?

[jjakq27]

Two years ago to the day the Bengals defeated the Steelers in Pittsburgh to take a commanding lead in the AFC North race. The Bengals would clinch the division with a win at Detroit a couple of weeks later.

The Bengals were the toast of the town and one of the up-and-comers in the NFL. The sky was the limit and the Super Bowl seemed to be within reach. Since then things have steadily eroded to the point that In Marvin We No Longer Trust and In Mike We Blame.

So how did we get to where we are now? What changed?

[HoosierCat]

So how did we get to where we are now? What changed?

Well, in no particular order...

Braham retired.

An absolute explosion of high-pick draft busts (Chris Perry, Pollack, Ratliff, Rucker, Caleb) and behavior flameouts (Odell, Henry).

Mediocre, uneven development of other picks (Landon, Madieu, JJoe).

Injuries to both tackles.

Injuries to Carson.

Free agency follies. Keeping mediocre talent at a high price (Smith), letting vets go (Steinbach, Simmons, K2, Stewart), signing junk (Adams, Dexter, Chatman).

Reliance on UDFAs and low-round picks to fill key roles (Tab Perry, Kilmer, Dan Coats).

[redsbengalsbucks]

Injuries to what seems like every LB on the team, plus any that the team picked up.

Injuries to Palmer, Rudi, CJ, TJ, Tab and Cris Perry, Chatman, Anderson, Levi, Deltha, JJoe, Kilmer, Indiana Jones, M. Williams, Bluto and Graham

Missed opportunities at the end of games for the offense all this season and the final 2 games last season.

This team is not far from being very good, it just needs to get healthy and draft some more young defensive studs (it makes no sense to draft anything on Offense other than a lineman).

The Bengals due to injuries are in a similar place as the Browns were last season, close to being good but lacking some key position players.

It is sad that so many fans dont realize that this team has the potential to be very good next season, if the injured players can get and stay healthy.

[HoosierCat]

This team is not far from being very good, it just needs to get healthy and draft some more young defensive studs (it makes no sense to draft anything on Offense other than a lineman).

Didn't we just do that last season? Weren't we all wishing/hoping/praying that Willie and Levi and the two Perrys and JJoe and Pollack would all be healthy, and that Odell would be reinstated? And didn't we let a bunch of experienced vets go in favor of young (alleged) studs?

So now...you propose we wish/hope/pray that Willie and Levi and the two Perrys and Kenny Irons and Pollack and Brooks will all be healthy, and that Odell will be reinstated -- and that we clear out more vets for more young (alleged) studs?

I've quoted Albert Einstein before and will do so again: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is a functional definition of insanity.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Reason #1: They're the Bengals

Reason #2: The Bengals' are losers and the 4-headed incompetent monster of Paul Jr., Mike, Katie and Troy are terrible at what they do and their track record proves it over and over

Reason #3: No participation in free agency outside of fodder and cheap depth to make up for bad/suspended/injured draft picks year after year

Reason #4: Poor coaching

Reason #5: Low Standards

Reason #6: Fans keep keep paying for season tickets and selling out home games after being fooled in 2005 that things were changing...they haven't

Truth hurts.

[jjakq27]

So 2005 was a fluke?

[redsbengalsbucks]

This team is not far from being very good, it just needs to get healthy and draft some more young defensive studs (it makes no sense to draft anything on Offense other than a lineman).

Didn't we just do that last season? Weren't we all wishing/hoping/praying that Willie and Levi and the two Perrys and JJoe and Pollack would all be healthy, and that Odell would be reinstated? And didn't we let a bunch of experienced vets go in favor of young (alleged) studs?

So now...you propose we wish/hope/pray that Willie and Levi and the two Perrys and Kenny Irons and Pollack and Brooks will all be healthy, and that Odell will be reinstated -- and that we clear out more vets for more young (alleged) studs?

I've quoted Albert Einstein before and will do so again: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is a functional definition of insanity.

Do you even read posts before you start your tirades, where do I suggest getting rid of our vets? That would be all the fans willing to give up and overhaul the entire team, when minor tweaks are in order.

Why is it unreasonable to expect that a team decimated by injury this season might be better next season?

The NFL is very competitive, there is a small difference between most teams and there is room for great improvement when a team can actually field their #1 starters for more than a couple games a season. If the Bengals can get healthy and stay away from complete injury failure next year I have hope that a big turn-around will be made.

[jjakq27]

This team is not far from being very good, it just needs to get healthy and draft some more young defensive studs (it makes no sense to draft anything on Offense other than a lineman).

Didn't we just do that last season? Weren't we all wishing/hoping/praying that Willie and Levi and the two Perrys and JJoe and Pollack would all be healthy, and that Odell would be reinstated? And didn't we let a bunch of experienced vets go in favor of young (alleged) studs?

So now...you propose we wish/hope/pray that Willie and Levi and the two Perrys and Kenny Irons and Pollack and Brooks will all be healthy, and that Odell will be reinstated -- and that we clear out more vets for more young (alleged) studs?

I've quoted Albert Einstein before and will do so again: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is a functional definition of insanity.

Do you even read posts before you start your tirades, where do I suggest getting rid of our vets? That would be all the fans willing to give up and overhaul the entire team, when minor tweaks are in order.

Why is it unreasonable to expect that a team decimated by injury this season might be better next season?

The NFL is very competitive, there is a small difference between most teams and there is room for great improvement when a team can actually field their #1 starters for more than a couple games a season. If the Bengals can get healthy and stay away from complete injury failure next year I have hope that a big turn-around will be made.

I do believe that there are some core issues with the team that need to be fixed. However I agree that injuries have been a major factor in the decline of this team.

To back your point about the level of competition in the NFL, there are currently 11 teams with either a 5-7 or 4-8 record. That is over 1/3 of the teams in the league. Unfortunately there is a lot of bad football being played in the NFL this year. If you throw in the 6-6 teams the number becomes 15 teams which is nearly half of the entire league.

[HoosierCat]

Do you even read posts before you start your tirades, where do I suggest getting rid of our vets?

Where, precisely, do you want to put all these young defensive studs you call for them to draft? If they go all defense in the first three rounds, as everyone is calling on them to do, that's likely four alleged defensive studs to work in. So we have to let guys like Justin, Dexter, Madieu and Landon go to fit them in, right? Again, that's we we did last year: shed veterans, insert youngsters. Didn't exactly work out, did it?

Why is it unreasonable to expect that a team dissemated by injury this season might be better next season?

The word you're looking for is "decimated." And it's because it isn't very likely to get much better. Willie's injuries are said to be essentially permanent, something he'll have to deal with for the rest of his life. Levi's knees remain a question mark. Pollack isn't likely to play again. Neither Perry has shown any ability to stay healthy in the NFL.

The NFL is very competative, there is a small difference between most teams and there is room for great improvment when a team can actually feild thier #1 starters for more than a couple games a season. If the Bengals can get healthy and stay away from complete injury failure next year I have hope that a big turn-around will be made.

Yeah, I know, and I predicted weeks ago that would be the line coming out of PBS after the season. Oh, we had all these injuries and bad luck, we're only a couple players away, no need for major changes, coaching changes, ways of doing business changes. Stay the course. Steady as she goes. We've almost got this oxcart out of the ditch. Congrats on being ahead of the curve.

[Kirkendall]

However I agree that injuries have been a major factor in the decline of this team.

Heck, Jakster, I'd say it's THE reason. Every single spot has been affected one way, or another, by injury -- even QB when a failed rushing attack puts 56,000 tons of pressure on his shoulders. I know, I know. Happens to every team. Blah, blah, blah. But at that point, the issue is depth, not injury. Without the injuries, we don't worry about depth.

[Kirkendall]

The word you're looking for is "decimated." And it's because it isn't very likely to get much better. Willie's injuries are said to be essentially permanent, something he'll have to deal with for the rest of his life. Levi's knees remain a question mark. Pollack isn't likely to play again. Neither Perry has shown any ability to stay healthy in the NFL.

There is a silver lining here. Knowing what you know is very powerful right now for the Bengals. Last season, we had the core of our 2005 team fall victim to injury. The hope was they'd recover and not worry about replacements. That idea, to completely underscore the impact, didn't work.

This time around, with your points above, are known quantities and with Lewis one more bad season away from being fired, I doubt the team takes the same approach heading into next season.

See, there's always positive in each negative. We just have to search hard for it. Though, being Bengals fans, we're experienced at it like no other.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Do you even read posts before you start your tirades, where do I suggest getting rid of our vets?

Where, precisely, do you want to put all these young defensive studs you call for them to draft? If they go all defense in the first three rounds, as everyone is calling on them to do, that's likely four alleged defensive studs to work in. So we have to let guys like Justin, Dexter, Madieu and Landon go to fit them in, right? Again, that's we we did last year: shed veterans, insert youngsters. Didn't exactly work out, did it?

Why is it unreasonable to expect that a team dissemated by injury this season might be better next season?

The word you're looking for is "decimated." And it's because it isn't very likely to get much better. Willie's injuries are said to be essentially permanent, something he'll have to deal with for the rest of his life. Levi's knees remain a question mark. Pollack isn't likely to play again. Neither Perry has shown any ability to stay healthy in the NFL.

The NFL is very competative, there is a small difference between most teams and there is room for great improvment when a team can actually feild thier #1 starters for more than a couple games a season. If the Bengals can get healthy and stay away from complete injury failure next year I have hope that a big turn-around will be made.

Yeah, I know, and I predicted weeks ago that would be the line coming out of PBS after the season. Oh, we had all these injuries and bad luck, we're only a couple players away, no need for major changes, coaching changes, ways of doing business changes. Stay the course. Steady as she goes. We've almost got this oxcart out of the ditch. Congrats on being ahead of the curve.

Sorry Chicken Little, I forgot the sky is falling and there is no hope.

Have you ever heard of replacing depth with draft choices? Depth is the problem when injuries start to mount and your depth suddenly become starters. Just having the same starting LB's for more than 2 games in a row would improve this D alot.

As for spelling corrections, grow up, I am not a student of yours, you have nothing you can teach that I want to learn.

[Kirkendall]

Have you ever heard of replacing depth with draft choices? Depth is the problem when injuries start to mount and your depth suddenly become starters.

I know this is is a back-and-forth between best friends, but my only counter to the draft argument is Lewis' track record. I'm not confident right now that he'll pick the players to fill the gaps.

[HoosierCat]

Sorry Chicken Little, I forgot the sky is falling and there is no hope.

No, it isn't, and yes, there is. But you aren't going to fix things, especially on defense, with a few tweaks.

Have you ever heard of replacing depth with draft choices? Depth is the problem when injuries start to mount and your depth suddenly become starters. Just having the same starting LB's for more than 2 games in a row would improve this D alot.

Depth isn't the issue -- hell, guys we dragged in off the beach like Dhani Jones were better than our starters! The problem is that too many of our starters suck! You want to draft for depth, fine, what are you going to do about Justin, Madieu, and Landon, none of whom have proven the building blocks we hoped and all of whom are set to walk? Or Thornton, an overpaid underachiever? Or Deltha, a head case who wants out over money?

This is not a "tweak" situation where you can improve things by shuffling in a few more rookies. This is a "blow it up" situation. Of the guys actually out there on the field, Geathers, Peko, Hall, Joseph, Nduke, and Jeanty are worth looking at building around. Everybody else ought to be under the gun. Take a page from 2003: flush the crap, use FA to find a few hopefully impact vets, and go ahead and draft alleged defensive studs.

[HoosierCat]

Have you ever heard of replacing depth with draft choices? Depth is the problem when injuries start to mount and your depth suddenly become starters.

I know this is is a back-and-forth between best friends, but my only counter to the draft argument is Lewis' track record. I'm not confident right now that he'll pick the players to fill the gaps.

Lewis' challenge hasn't been picking players to fill the gaps. It's been picking players in the first place.

[BengalszoneBilly]

What has changed in the last two years?

I'm betting it wasn't Mikies preference for Salvation Army suits.

Someone needs to tell this fool he's a walking disaster when it comes to making a sartorial statement. Jesus...how can people trust in a man to run a professional football team when you see drunks on skid row dressing better than him. All Mikies missing is the big urine wet spot on the front of his britches, and a fifth of MD 20-20 hanging out of his pocket, and you'd never know the difference.

[Bengals1]

Nuff' said:

[ShulaSteakhouse]

The point of "my" tirades is that every year there's an excuse, when it's really a philosophical/organizational flaw that's been in existence for many years.

This team is not under-achieving just because of injuries to Irons, Pollack, Willie and Brooks. Give me a break.

None of those guys have proven a thing in the NFL beyond Willie. And they had all off-season to replace Pollack and find a competent LB to replace Odell, but they didn't. And they down-graded at the guard and center positions, as well as tackle since they had to put Whit at guard.

But yet people are acting like they were blind-sided by all of this. Cmon.

Should we start lining up the excuses for next year? How much longer can we milk the Odell and Pollack absences? 3, 4 more years?

[HairOnFire]

I've quoted Albert Einstein before and will do so again: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is a functional definition of insanity.

Einstein was douche who believe the universe was in a constant state, neither expanding or retracting.....an opinion he continued to hold even after proof was found that the universe is indeed ever expanding. And Einstein admitted he rejected the proof simply because he preferred thinking of the universe in the neater less messy constant state....thereby rejecting reality.

Seriously, you've got to stop quoting that guy.

[Jet23]

I've quoted Albert Einstein before and will do so again: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is a functional definition of insanity.

Einstein was douche who believe the universe was in a constant state, neither expanding or retracting.....an opinion he continued to hold even after proof was found that the universe is indeed ever expanding. And Einstein admitted he rejected the proof simply because he preferred thinking of the universe in the neater less messy constant state....thereby rejecting reality.

Seriously, you've got to stop quoting that guy.

Did you just call Einstein a douche? Stephen Hawking now believes that matter disappears. Everyone knows that only Chris Angel can make stuff disappear.

[redsrule2500]

A lot of you are too much doom and gloom.

We haven't had a losing season in 3 years. Last year we SHOULD have had a winning season and playoffs if wern't for rediculous blown calls by Refs (sack) or a missed FG by Graham.

One bad season and everyone is FREAKING OUT!

We've had tons of injuries, suspensions, etc....the Steelers had a bad year and then the next year BAM! Superbowl.

Don't keep telling me this team is bad, we suck, blah blah...get real.

[HairOnFire]

Did you just call Einstein a douche?

Sure did. Einstein was still championing the constant state theory long after it had been disproven, and did so based upon a personal preference that rejected all evidence. So why should his feelings on what defines insanity be given weight? The man knowingly rejected reality.

Einstein = Douchebag

[redsrule2500]

Did you just call Einstein a douche?

Sure did. Einstein was still championing the constant state theory long after it had been disproven, and did so based upon a personal preference that rejected all evidence. So why should his feelings on what defines insanity be given weight? The man knowingly rejected reality.

Einstein = Douchebag

[ArmyBengal]

Well, because of injuries and suspensions and whatever else, YES this team does suck and if nothing else, THIS DEFENSE SUCKS BALLS !!!

Can that be overcome ?? Yes. Will it ?? That remains to be answered...

WHODEY !!!

[jjakq27]

Did you just call Einstein a douche?

Sure did. Einstein was still championing the constant state theory long after it had been disproven, and did so based upon a personal preference that rejected all evidence. So why should his feelings on what defines insanity be given weight? The man knowingly rejected reality.

Einstein = Douchebag