The defense: Good news and bad news

[cincyhokie]

Sorry for the lack of a link but I heard something interesting this morning while listening to Alan Cutler on 1530. Alan had on Chick Ludwig from the Dayton Daily News and Chick was adamant about the majority of the Bengals defense leaving the team in the offseason. Landon Johnson, Justin Smith, Madieu, Bryan Robinson, John Thorton, and I am assuming Deltha and Dexter will be gone too. The best part was he is certain the entire defensive coaching staff will be gone.

The good news? We need to start over and build a new defense. Start clean. This would be great news. However, I would like to see the Bengals retain Landon and Madieu....I think that a better defensive unit would help their play in general. Nobody on this defense is having a good season. Given a better situation I think a few of these guys could return to the form we saw in 2004-2005.

The bad news? Listening to him confirmed to me what we have been witnessing on the field on Sundays. These guys have given up. They want to leave this team and are just biding their time until the end of the season. What a complete waste of a good offense whose window is closing on some of it's key players.

Did anyone else hear this segment this morning?

[BengalszoneBilly]

Sorry for the lack of a link but I heard something interesting this morning while listening to Alan Cutler on 1530. Alan had on Chick Ludwig from the Dayton Daily News and Chick was adamant about the majority of the Bengals defense leaving the team in the offseason. Landon Johnson, Justin Smith, Madieu, Bryan Robinson, John Thorton, and I am assuming Deltha and Dexter will be gone too. The best part was he is certain the entire defensive coaching staff will be gone.

The good news? We need to start over and build a new defense. Start clean. This would be great news. However, I would like to see the Bengals retain Landon and Madieu....I think that a better defensive unit would help their play in general. Nobody on this defense is having a good season. Given a better situation I think a few of these guys could return to the form we saw in 2004-2005.

The bad news? Listening to him confirmed to me what we have been witnessing on the field on Sundays. These guys have given up. They want to leave this team and are just biding their time until the end of the season. What a complete waste of a good offense whose window is closing on some of it's key players.

Did anyone else hear this segment this morning?

I didn't hear it per se', but I can absolutely believe rats are jumping a sinking ship.

[cincyhokie]

I'll be honest. When I heard the mention that the enitre defensive staff to include our horrible interior line would be gone, it made me happy. I think this season is lost. So does the defense. Let's look towards next year. Blow this thing up and let's start with a fresh look.

[HoosierCat]

The bad news? Listening to him confirmed to me what we have been witnessing on the field on Sundays. These guys have given up. They want to leave this team and are just biding their time until the end of the season. What a complete waste of a good offense whose window is closing on some of it's key players.

I haven't seen a D that's given up. I've seen a D that's been outplayed, I've seen a D that's been outcoached, but I haven't seen one that's given up. At least yet. Frankly, I think if they get the same kind of pressure on Losman that they got on Big Jen last week, the Bengals should kill the Bills. Of course, knowing Chuck, hell decide this is the week to return to the no-rush pillow-soft zone and Losman will have al day to throw bombs to Evans.

[dave]

From Lance McAllister's blog:

Chick Ludwig this morning with Alan Cutler:

"This is a poor excuse for a defense. It's not working. They need new faces....new coaches and new players on defense. They need to blow it up. Chuck Bresnahan will be gone. And a ton of unrestricted free agents want out....Justin Smith, Landon Johnson, Caleb Miller, Brian Robinson, Madieu Williams. They all want out."

If they clean house, who the hell are they going to get to play D? They can't sign or draft a couple decent D players a year, let alone a whole slew of them.

[cincyhokie]

My point is that if you've made up your mind to leave this team, you've given up. These guys are professionals and will play hard on the field but maybe not give the extra effort....watching film, stepping up in the locker room, being leaders, etc. That is giving up. When you don't see yourself in a place for long your mind is elsewhere. In a sense you've given up. It's normal human reaction. Just my opinion.

[HairOnFire]

If they clean house, who the hell are they going to get to play D? They can't sign or draft a couple decent D players a year, let alone a whole slew of them.

A better question might ask who would you want to keep from the list of players who are said to want out? Madieu was average at best last season and has been just horrible this year. Since he'll be a free agent the Bengals will probably have to overpay to keep him...assuming they even want to. Times up. Justin is Justin, and regardless of if the Bengals have anyone better they simply can't justify continuing to pay him what it would take to retain him. In fact, I've always felt the franchise tag was used simply to buy them a much needed year before searching in earnest for his replacement. Times up. B-Rob not only doesn't make enough plays to shed a tear over, but he's not the type of player a rebuilding program should be built around. Times up. Caleb has never challenged for a strters position and can't stay healthy whenever called upon. As for Landon, He's the only name mentioned that I'd fight to keep.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

A better question might ask who would you want to keep from the list of players who are said to want out? Madieu was average at best last season and has been just horrible this year. Since he'll be a free agent the Bengals will probably have to overpay to keep him...assuming they even want to. Times up. Justin is Justin, and regardless of if the Bengals have anyone better they simply can't justify continuing to pay him what it would take to retain him. In fact, I've always felt the franchise tag was used simply to buy them a much needed year before searching in earnest for his replacement. Times up. B-Rob not only doesn't make enough plays to shed a tear over, but he's not the type of player a rebuilding program should be built around. Times up. Caleb has never challenged for a strters position and can't stay healthy whenever called upon. As for Landon, He's the only name mentioned that I'd fight to keep.

Agree on the list. My favorite play from Sunday was the one where Justin chased somebody down from behind across the field, and the announcers loved it, thought he made a great play. Of course they didn't notice that the play started on Justin's side, and he got out of position on the misdirection. Had he stood his ground, would have been a loss.

Career in a nutshell.

[cincyhokie]

Who I'd like to see next year from this year's defense:

Starting:

Geathers

Landon

Brooks

Hall

Joseph

Peko

Ndukwe

Key Back-ups:

Jeanty

Myers

We'd need a starting SS, OLB, DT, and a DE. What if Pollack came back? We would still need to get a couple of FA safeties, a DT, and a DE. Draft? Maybe...to start and be effective we would need a stud like Dorsey.

We need to give the D-line an enima and clean it out. We've got to get a push up front next year.

[GregCook]

Uhhh, Ludwig is stating the obvious as most journalists do. Does anyone think this defense right here will be back next season? Forget the coaches for a minute, look on D, who has distinguished themselves this season? I count two: Peko and Geathers. Landon has been ok. Hall is a rook and its just not fair to fail him yet. JJ is a 1st rounder and must start. Landon will get an offer from the Bengals, but I don't think any of the remaining FA's will.

Now to the coaches. If only 4 starters are kept, doesn't it make sense to bring in new coaches on D, Special Teams, Secondary? Marvin has one more year to show this team is building a foundation for success. He has to do some serious weed removal. Of course Mike Brown might see things another way.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Does anyone think this defense right here will be back next season?

God I hope not, otherwise it will be more of the same.

Forget the coaches for a minute, look on D, who has distinguished themselves this season? I count two: Peko and Geathers. Landon has been ok. Hall is a rook and its just not fair to fail him yet. JJ is a 1st rounder and must start. Landon will get an offer from the Bengals, but I don't think any of the remaining FA's will.

I'll concur with this assessment. I definitely hope we retain Landon Johnson. At least he shows some fire.

Now to the coaches. If only 4 starters are kept, doesn't it make sense to bring in new coaches on D, Special Teams, Secondary? Marvin has one more year to show this team is building a foundation for success. He has to do some serious weed removal. Of course Mike Brown might see things another way.

The way I see it is that as long as Marvin stays, this present coaching staff will remain intact, which IMHO is a terrible thing.

The whole Mike Brown as owner thing is beyond any hope of changing, so therefore I must keep my hopes within a realistic POV.

[cincyhokie]

Of course Mike Brown might see things another way.

Hell, man, Breshnahan should have been fired this PAST offseason. Especially after the Chargers and Falcons game debacles. I HOPE the defensive coaching staff gets fired but with Mikey nothing is ever a given. ANY other team and Bresh would have been toast after the last season.

IF Mikey and Co can see that the only thing to fix the defense is to blow it up then that is great news. Since this was the only thing I have ever read or heard about the defense changing I thought that it was significant.

The funny thing is that after 2005 we were saying that the defense could get better than it's 24th ranking. In 2006 it ranked 28th. Then this year you had to think that it could get better than 28th. Now I don't know what their exact ranking is right now in yards allowed but this is the worst Bengals defense that I can remember seeing as a fan. Injuries or not it is a disaster.

[cincyhokie]

Forget the coaches for a minute, look on D, who has distinguished themselves this season?

Nobody has looked good. The unit sucks. Get some talent on the defense ESPECIALLY at the DT position and everyone will have better seasons....the LBs the DBs....everyone. Hell, Adalius Thomas would be having a bad season on this defense.

[cincyhokie]

I was completely wrong about the defense. They haven't given up at all

This defense, this team, has no backbone. They have no accountability and they flat out suck. Right now I reall don't give a f*ck if they lose the rest of their games. The higher the draft pcik the better.

[membengal]

Seems to me that another coaching staff with a fresh vision might realize what a gift this team has in someone like Robert Geathers, and help him to maximize his impact on a game.

This staff? No. f**kin'. clue.

I have progressed to hating them.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Seems to me that another coaching staff with a fresh vision might realize what a gift this team has in someone like Robert Geathers, and help him to maximize his impact on a game.

This staff? No. f**kin'. clue.

I have progressed to hating them.

Welcome to my new club!

[HoosierCat]

I have to agree with this sentiment from Lance's blog...

I don't know how you could go into next week's game with Chuck Bresnahan as defensive coordinator, and expect to maintain any credibility as an organization.

Then again, that is assuming the organization has any credibility.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I have to agree with this sentiment from Lance's blog...

I don't know how you could go into next week's game with Chuck Bresnahan as defensive coordinator, and expect to maintain any credibility as an organization.

Then again, that is assuming the organization has any credibility.

They don't. The coaching staff lost it last season with the playoffs on the line.

[HairOnFire]

The way I see it is that as long as Marvin stays, this present coaching staff will remain intact, which IMHO is a terrible thing.

I'm not sure that's fair since he's fired his defensive coordinator before, and each year brings a different mix of available (Just Fired) coaches.

[BengalszoneBilly]

The way I see it is that as long as Marvin stays, this present coaching staff will remain intact, which IMHO is a terrible thing.

I'm not sure that's fair since he's fired his defensive coordinator before, and each year brings a different mix of available (Just Fired) coaches.

You're right Hair, it's not fair. He should have resigned and saved us all this trouble.

[HairOnFire]

The way I see it is that as long as Marvin stays, this present coaching staff will remain intact, which IMHO is a terrible thing.

I'm not sure that's fair since he's fired his defensive coordinator before, and each year brings a different mix of available (Just Fired) coaches.

You're right Hair, it's not fair. He should have resigned and saved us all this trouble.

I'm sorry, I should have seen you were in a lather.

If you don't mind I'll wait here until you're finished.

[BengalszoneBilly]

The way I see it is that as long as Marvin stays, this present coaching staff will remain intact, which IMHO is a terrible thing.

I'm not sure that's fair since he's fired his defensive coordinator before, and each year brings a different mix of available (Just Fired) coaches.

You're right Hair, it's not fair. He should have resigned and saved us all this trouble.

I'm sorry, I should have seen you were in a lather.

If you don't mind I'll wait here until you're finished.

No...you go ahead. I'm so lathered up I'm down to the little bubbles. You gave me s**t about being on the case of this team in the preseason too. I stand my quite firm ground.

[HairOnFire]

No...you go ahead. I'm so lathered up I'm down to the little bubbles. You gave me s**t about being on the case of this team in the preseason too. I stand my quite firm ground.

Relax, I give everybody s**t....including myself.

As for those who doubted everything....you were right to do so. In every case.

[BengalszoneBilly]

No...you go ahead. I'm so lathered up I'm down to the little bubbles. You gave me s**t about being on the case of this team in the preseason too. I stand my quite firm ground.

Relax, I give everybody s**t....including myself.

As for those who doubted everything....you were right to do so. In every case.

Hair, you are by far my favorite antogonist. Your wit and humor is exceeded by none. Consider your ass kissed.