Marvin Wants a GM?

[Kazkal]

MARVIN WANTS A G.M.

Plagued for years by the inadequate devotion of resources to the personnel department, the Cincinnati Bengals have no G.M. and not enough scouts.

A league source now tells us that coach Marvin Lewis is lobbying internally for the hiring of a General Manager who would assume responsibility for shaping the team's personnel. Though we assume that Lewis would want to maintain final say over the 53-man roster, Lewis apparently realizes that not enough time, money, and/or effort has been devoted to ensuring that the right players are added to the team.

The Bengals have developed a reputation for drafting guys whom other teams take off of their boards. The problem, as it's been explained to us, is that when players like Frostee Rucker and Chris Henry and A.J. Nicholson are available in lower rounds than their talent might otherwise dictate, the Bengals go for the talent not because they don't care about bad character, but because they lack the confidence to identify the best of the players who haven't slid down the board.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Interesting, and hopefully true. Marvin needs to be focused on preparing and coaching his team, not worrying about contracts, media relations and personnel issues so much as well.

This is news I'm guessing, as the Bengals' pseudo-facto GM has always been the three-headed monster of Mike, Katie and Paul Jr. I'm guessing (and hoping) Marvin is lobbying for someone to come in from the outside who has a track record as a GM.

The problem there is I'm doubting, one, that Mike Brown would want to pay for a quality GM, and two, he would almost assuredly hire someone "in the family" so as not to break his father's ultimate credo of "letting someone become too powerful." -- Even though that is absolutely irrelevant in this day and age, and with the contract the Brown family has with the city/county etc..., So I tend to attribute a lot of these things to pure lazy stubborness on the part of Mike Brown.

Maybe the GM will get 'em a frickin practice bubble like everyone else as well.

The Bengals' operate at a distinct disadvantage to almost all the other teams and people here make too little of it for some reason.

I give you the Bengals' track record the last 16 years as proof of that.

Whatch you got? (for those who believe the Bengals' are doing things the right way and don't need to change anything)

I can absolutely guarantee you Marvin agrees with me above (and everyone else who believes this - it's not as if I'm stating anything new or enlightening obviously)

[kingwilly]

well, well, well....

If Marvin can pull off getting a GM, then there is hope. I think the issue is purely time. I do not think that an NFL head coach, in what is already a compressed schedule, can find the time to adequately evaluate and manage the talent queue for this team.

Mikey B cannot do it. ML does not have the time. Said it before, I'll say it again;They need a GM.

[Bengals1]

I know i'm a pessimist but I do not see this happening at any time while SoP runs the team.

The kitties have needed a true GM for more than decade, what's different now? I'm also dubious of this whole story. It makes sense don't get me wrong. But that's just it, it almost makes too much sense if you get what I mean.

It's almost as if somebody who wants to make this happen is planting a story to spark debate and not really reporting a true rumor. And PFT.com doesn't exactly have a stellar reputation on these things.

We'll see, but I'm willing to make a bet this doesn't come to fruition anytime soon.....

[bengalboomer7]

I won't get too much into PFT(far more credible than anyone here will admit) and I'd say he's at least mentioned the idea to Mikey, but answer me this, coaches are very controlled people, so why would Marvin lobby for some of that to be taken away?

And can we please let the "bubble" die. It ain't happening and the advantage isn't that meaningful

[mgi]

How many other teams (and how successful are they) don't have a GM?

[Spor_tees]

Your first GM of the Cincinnati Bengals...

John Cooper

[BengalszoneBilly]

How many other teams (and how successful are they) don't have a GM?

Good questions. Inquiring minds want to know.

[cincyhokie]

The problem with Mike Brown is this:

It's not that he doesn't want to win. He does.

Mike wants to live up to his father and be successful the way Paul was. The problem is that just because Paul Brown was successful AND frugal does not mean it will work NOW. Mike Brown wants to do it the way his father did. This is what makes him a stubborn a**. This is why we as fans have been banging our heads against a wall since 1991.

Back to the drafting....Mikey has a hard on for offense, always has. If there is a stellar offensive threat on the board, he's going to grab him.

I honestly think that Marvin is TRYING to get Mike to change his drafting philosophies.........this is good, but it's going to take time, if it happens at all. Until Mike gives up control or passes away, I think we will be fighting the same issues year in and year out.

As much as it hurts to have games like the SD game last year and the Cleveland game this year........it may be the only way that Mikey gets his a** in gear and gets some studs on defense.

[BengalszoneBilly]

The problem with Mike Brown is this:

It's not that he doesn't want to win. He does.

Mike wants to live up to his father and be successful the way Paul was. The problem is that just because Paul Brown was successful AND frugal does not mean it will work NOW. Mike Brown wants to do it the way his father did. This is what makes him a stubborn a**. This is why we as fans have been banging our heads against a wall since 1991.

Back to the drafting....Mikey has a hard on for offense, always has. If there is a stellar offensive threat on the board, he's going to grab him.

I honestly think that Marvin is TRYING to get Mike to change his drafting philosophies.........this is good, but it's going to take time, if it happens at all. Until Mike gives up control or passes away, I think we will be fighting the same issues year in and year out.

As much as it hurts to have games like the SD game last year and the Cleveland game this year........it may be the only way that Mikey gets his a** in gear and gets some studs on defense.

Mikie couldn't carry his daddy's hat, and that's a fact.

Sure...I've seen him wear the same fedora as his dad did, and it's about as silly as seeing Rosie O'Donnell in Carmen Electra's bikini.

[Spor_tees]

Thing is, Paul Brown always had good coaches...not just head coaches, assistant coaches. Arguably one of the best offensive coaches of all time, Bill Walsh was a coach in Cincy. You can draft marginal players if you have the right guys in place to develop them. Now if you have guys like Chuck B., Jay Hays, ect in place you better be bringing in stars, or you are pretty much screwed.

[cincyhokie]

Thing is, Paul Brown always had good coaches...not just head coaches, assistant coaches. Arguably one of the best offensive coaches of all time, Bill Walsh was a coach in Cincy. You can draft marginal players if you have the right guys in place to develop them. Now if you have guys like Chuck B., Jay Hays, ect in place you better be bringing in stars, or you are pretty much screwed.

How much did good coaches "cost" then? Or better yet, how easy was it to get good coaches back then?

My point is this....I think contracts and money are much more a part of the scenario now than they were then. Let me put it this way. If you are a successful coach or an upcoming successful coach do you go to a frugal team such as the Bengals who will pay you less or do you go to a better offer? It's 1975....it's much more attractive to coach for a legend like Paul Brown than it is to coach for Mike Brown.

If Paul Brown was alive and did not have his successes as a head coach, I think we'd be in the same scenario.

Hence, Mike B. = Paul B.

The problem is that Mike is not a legend like Paul was.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Thing is, Paul Brown always had good coaches...not just head coaches, assistant coaches. Arguably one of the best offensive coaches of all time, Bill Walsh was a coach in Cincy. You can draft marginal players if you have the right guys in place to develop them. Now if you have guys like Chuck B., Jay Hays, ect in place you better be bringing in stars, or you are pretty much screwed.

True Spor_tees, but you have to remember Paul Brown was the owner/GM/head coach/head of scouting staff/anything else you'd care to mention. His numb nuts/over privileged/short bus riding his retarded a$$ to special ed school son thinks he has the ability to do the same thing just because he shares his daddy's last name.

I firmly believe that if God Almighty allowed Paul Brown one day to return to this earth...he'd spend it kicking the living s**t out of his son.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Thing is, Paul Brown always had good coaches...not just head coaches, assistant coaches. Arguably one of the best offensive coaches of all time, Bill Walsh was a coach in Cincy. You can draft marginal players if you have the right guys in place to develop them. Now if you have guys like Chuck B., Jay Hays, ect in place you better be bringing in stars, or you are pretty much screwed.

True Spor_tees, but you have to remember Paul Brown was the owner/GM/head coach/head of scouting staff/anything else you'd care to mention. His numb nuts/over privileged/short bus riding his retarded a$$ to special ed school son thinks he has the ability to do the same thing just because he shares his daddy's last name.

I firmly believe that if God Almighty allowed Paul Brown one day to return to this earth...he'd spend it kicking the living s**t out of his son.

I think all of the above is true. 1) Mikey doesn't have his Dad's talent. 2) This is a different era with the salary cap - his Dad's style wouldn't work now. You can't run a team with a one-man band. Of course Paul would have probably adapted while Mikey hasn't, which is point #1.

[BengalszoneBilly]

2) This is a different era with the salary cap - his Dad's style wouldn't work now.

I disagree with this point. The ability to make the right decisions, and to recognize talent and ability is timeless!

[cincyhokie]

2) This is a different era with the salary cap - his Dad's style wouldn't work now.

I disagree with this point. The ability to make the right decisions, and to recognize talent and ability is timeless!

Agreed. Paul had emmense talent. But he was a tightass. Listen to stories from Lapham and Fulcher sometime about how the club was run. THAT style wouldn't work now. The question would be would Paul be able to adapt and innovate.

We all know that Mikey can't do that......so all of this is really just moot.

[BengalszoneBilly]

The question would be would Paul be able to adapt and innovate.

Good point, but IMHO Paul Brown was always an innovator, and hence adaptation would likely follow.

[cincyhokie]

The question would be would Paul be able to adapt and innovate.

Good point, but IMHO Paul Brown was always an innovator, and hence adaptation would likely follow.

True.

Maybe the milkman is Mikey's dad in reality.

[BengalszoneBilly]

The question would be would Paul be able to adapt and innovate.

Good point, but IMHO Paul Brown was always an innovator, and hence adaptation would likely follow.

True.

Maybe the milkman is Mikey's dad in reality.

That's an amusing thought, but he looks too much like his father for me to believe it. I guess he got his mothers football sense, huh?

[HoosierCat]

MARVIN WANTS A G.M.

Plagued for years by the inadequate devotion of resources to the personnel department, the Cincinnati Bengals have no G.M. and not enough scouts.

A league source now tells us that coach Marvin Lewis is lobbying internally for the hiring of a General Manager who would assume responsibility for shaping the team's personnel. Though we assume that Lewis would want to maintain final say over the 53-man roster, Lewis apparently realizes that not enough time, money, and/or effort has been devoted to ensuring that the right players are added to the team.

The Bengals have developed a reputation for drafting guys whom other teams take off of their boards. The problem, as it's been explained to us, is that when players like Frostee Rucker and Chris Henry and A.J. Nicholson are available in lower rounds than their talent might otherwise dictate, the Bengals go for the talent not because they don't care about bad character, but because they lack the confidence to identify the best of the players who haven't slid down the board.

That makes far too much sense to be true.

That said, it would take more than a personnel guy; it would also take the addition of several more scouts.

[HairOnFire]

MARVIN WANTS A G.M.

Plagued for years by the inadequate devotion of resources to the personnel department, the Cincinnati Bengals have no G.M. and not enough scouts.

A league source now tells us that coach Marvin Lewis is lobbying internally for the hiring of a General Manager who would assume responsibility for shaping the team's personnel. Though we assume that Lewis would want to maintain final say over the 53-man roster, Lewis apparently realizes that not enough time, money, and/or effort has been devoted to ensuring that the right players are added to the team.

The Bengals have developed a reputation for drafting guys whom other teams take off of their boards. The problem, as it's been explained to us, is that when players like Frostee Rucker and Chris Henry and A.J. Nicholson are available in lower rounds than their talent might otherwise dictate, the Bengals go for the talent not because they don't care about bad character, but because they lack the confidence to identify the best of the players who haven't slid down the board.

I don't believe a word of it. Not one.

The idea that Lewis is lobbying for less personnel control is absurd and can probably be rejected outright. As for drafting character risks, this may be the one issue that Marvin Lewis and Mike Brown haven't been in lockstep, but Mike has claimed that he's learned his lesson and to his credit last years draft looked like roll call at a boy scout meeting. While their opinions may still differ on that subject the relationship between the two men seems as sound and solid as any in the NFL. So why would Lewis lobby for another level of management, not to mention the addition of a boss who presumably would have the authority to fire him.

[bengalboomer7]

MARVIN WANTS A G.M.

Plagued for years by the inadequate devotion of resources to the personnel department, the Cincinnati Bengals have no G.M. and not enough scouts.

A league source now tells us that coach Marvin Lewis is lobbying internally for the hiring of a General Manager who would assume responsibility for shaping the team's personnel. Though we assume that Lewis would want to maintain final say over the 53-man roster, Lewis apparently realizes that not enough time, money, and/or effort has been devoted to ensuring that the right players are added to the team.

The Bengals have developed a reputation for drafting guys whom other teams take off of their boards. The problem, as it's been explained to us, is that when players like Frostee Rucker and Chris Henry and A.J. Nicholson are available in lower rounds than their talent might otherwise dictate, the Bengals go for the talent not because they don't care about bad character, but because they lack the confidence to identify the best of the players who haven't slid down the board.

I don't believe a word of it. Not one.

The idea that Lewis is lobbying for less personnel control is absurd and can probably be rejected outright. As for drafting character risks, this may be the one issue that Marvin Lewis and Mike Brown haven't been in lockstep, but Mike has claimed that he's learned his lesson and to his credit last years draft looked like roll call at a boy scout meeting. While their opinions may still differ on that subject the relationship between the two men seems as sound and solid as any in the NFL. So why would Lewis lobby for another level of management, not to mention the addition of a boss who presumably would have the authority to fire him.

That's what I think, why would a control freak coach want to give up any control. What I hope he's doing is lobbying for a better scouting dept.

[HoosierCat]

That's what I think, why would a control freak coach want to give up any control. What I hope he's doing is lobbying for a better scouting dept.

Well, that's just it. Like I said earlier, just a GM or personnel alone guy doesn't help -- he or she would need a staff of scouts to do any good. Could I see Marvin lobbying for more scouts and a personnel expert to co-ordinate them? Yeah, easy. He could still be a "control freak" and over-rule the guy if he wants to (after all he has this 1-to-1 pipeline with Mikey, right?) but he ends up with a lot more, deeper, and detailed insight into potential picks and FA, right? Why would any coach not want that?

[bengalboomer7]

That's what I think, why would a control freak coach want to give up any control. What I hope he's doing is lobbying for a better scouting dept.

Well, that's just it. Like I said earlier, just a GM or personnel alone guy doesn't help -- he or she would need a staff of scouts to do any good. Could I see Marvin lobbying for more scouts and a personnel expert to co-ordinate them? Yeah, easy. He could still be a "control freak" and over-rule the guy if he wants to (after all he has this 1-to-1 pipeline with Mikey, right?) but he ends up with a lot more, deeper, and detailed insight into potential picks and FA, right? Why would any coach not want that?

You make it sound too logical. Mikey will never go for it

[HairOnFire]

He could still be a "control freak" and over-rule the guy if he wants to (after all he has this 1-to-1 pipeline with Mikey, right?) but he ends up with a lot more, deeper, and detailed insight into potential picks and FA, right?

Uhhh, no. That's the point. GM's have the power to ignore Marvin's wishes in regards to draft picks, free agents, or his own roster. And that same GM could ignore performance and because a personality clash fire Marvin in exactly the same manner that resulted in Marty Schottenheimer spending his Sunday afternoons watching his grandaughter make a boombie.

Or am I supposed to believe that Marvin is lobbying for a powerless GM, and if he is....what's the point? Isn't someone already opening the mail and watering the plants? And doesn't Vinnie Cerrato already have a job?

Sorry, this one feels like the time PFT used it's sources inside the Bengal's inner sanctum to break the news that Carson Palmer had a serious shoulder injury. Pure crap.