PFT's take on all this.

[COB]

Fellas, I never said trade Chad. I never said I thought they should trade Chad. But yea, I’m wondering what we could get for him. We just got our asses handed to us by an organization that makes a living with this kind of thinking. They play guys to their peak, then get out before the downhill slide begins while the player still has market value. And for even introducing this type of thought, I get called an “idiot”, “stupid”, and it is suggested that I be booted from the forum.

Repeat: I don't think Chad's the problem. I think the players we could possibly get for him could be the solution.

[bengalboomer7]

I'll will say this. The fact he got mad about getting to the one yard line instead of celebrating a big play that got the Bengals into scoring range is completely selfish and shows a me first attitude over being a team player

Bengalboomer7 let me put a spin on this. Did 85 get mad becuase he didn't score or because he didn't score one for his team?

You can put any spin you want on it, but I still think it's trying to make chicken salad out of chicken s**t. I think he was mad he didn't score and do a dance on MNF.

[HairOnFire]

Everyone needs to calm down.

"Trade Chad!"

"Wahhh wahh wahh."

"Fire Marvin!"

"Wahh wahh wahh."

No argument. Personally I knew there'd be little or no support for the idea of trading Chad...even from the dinks who claim that Marvin needs to be fired for losing control of the team. But it's those same dinks who provide the motivation for trading Chad, because if you believe that happened then you have to trade Chad or risk the cycle being repeated. Not only would Marvin's replacement have to deal with the same problem...you've compound things by proving that the inmates are truly in charge of the asylum. And along those same lines, if you don't want to fire Marvin, what better way to demonstrate who is firmly in charge?

That said, my firm belief is that most of you screaming loudly for discipline will immediately grow silent and shrink from any idea that would provide it, but at the cost of talent.

[CPalmer9]

trading chad is a ridiculous idea...i feel dumber for even reading that post

[HairOnFire]

I don't really know what we could get for Chad, not sure anyone does. But I'd be interested to see if it was good enough.

Pure speculation, but I think the most you could get would be a single 1st round pick and a veteran player.

[damiancasey]

trading chad is a ridiculous idea...i feel dumber for even reading that post

totally agree

think the team is in a bit of chaos now? fire Marvin and trade chad and see how chaotic it is

furthermore, who the heck are we going to replace these guys with?

[Jet23]

As much as I love CJ, I now believe that he is largely responsible for a divided locker room. I don't believe that ML was referring to Chad when he was talking about Players being selfish. I think he was talking about TJ. Johnson has shown that he can tow the line when Marvin asks him to. The problem is that Marvin would rather cover up for CJ than straighten him out.

I guess it is pretty much a fact that Johnson blew up at half time of the playoff game. However, Marvin had much more of a problem with the guy that exposed it to the media. I still believe that person was Kitna.

CJ is a star now, so it's time to just shut up and play. If he does shut up, I guarantee you he will make a big deal to the media about how he is going to shut up. Me, me, me..... It's hard to preach team when you put up with a guy like that. Why was he so upset when the was tackled at the 1 year line? Was it because he was afraid his team wouldn't score? Heck no, he missed an opportunity to act like a jacka$$ in front of the entire country. Yes, he puts up the numbers, but I want to see him do it when it counts. When the game is on the line, it seems to me that Johnson is there third option (with Henry out). I liked his antics as much as the next guy, but now it is just played.

I still love the guy, I don't want to see him go. But, Marvin has failed to keep him in check. In any other city, it may have cost him his job.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

People can dog on PFT, but I think it's a little bit of 'shoot the messenger'. I'm sorry, but it does get old watching Chad get shut down and/or lose his head in big games. And he did flat-out lose his head.

WR rule #1 is you don't show up your QB because he throws you the ball. It's like a couple of years ago when somebody jokingly asked Carson if anybody can shut down 85 and he responded by saying he could, by throwing the ball to TJ. Even though it's a loss, it seems glaring by comparison who got 10 catches while Chad was busy being a baby.

Don't get me wrong, Chad can be a great guy and a great WR. But for a team with championship aspirations, you can't have a guy losing it at the worst possible time.

[HairOnFire]

As much as I love CJ, I now believe that he is largely responsible for a divided locker room.

DING!!!!!!

The million dollar question is what do you do about the above? And the answer that I keep earing is fire Marvin or do nothing.

On the plus side, Chad's brought the sexy back this season.

Or hadn't you noticed?

[HoosierCat]

There's one very simple reason you can't trade Chad: the Bengals don't have the salary cap space to absorb the circa $5 million hit they'd take in doing so.

[Bobcat Bengal]

As much as I love CJ, I now believe that he is largely responsible for a divided locker room. I don't believe that ML was referring to Chad when he was talking about Players being selfish. I think he was talking about TJ.

Care to explain this in further detail?

You just made this comment and continued on about your merry way.....

[Jet23]

As much as I love CJ, I now believe that he is largely responsible for a divided locker room.

DING!!!!!!

The million dollar question is what do you do about the above? And the answer that I keep earing is fire Marvin or do nothing.

On the plus side, Chad's brought the sexy back this season.

Or hadn't you noticed?

IMO Marvin believes he is handling the situation, but he obviously is not. Chad does a great job of not showing ML up. He will throw him a bone, every once in a while, stating Marvin yelled at him for this or that. It is not enough. Perhaps it is about time for Mike Brown to tell Marvin that Chad is to cut it out. Not tone it down, cut it out entirely. It simply is not cute anymore.

In a way, I feel sorry for Marvin, because he obviously does not have a leader to take charge of the locker room. I do not believe that Carson feels comfortable with that role. He will get in Chad's face, in the heat of the moment, but he always backs down and takes the bullet. How do you think Boomer Esiason would handle Chad? It's time to start calling players out. Willie likes to talk about how he gets his feelings hurt about ML painting everyone with the same brush, why doesn't he talk some sense into Johnson? He's got the tenure, Pro Bowls, respect....not to mention he's a big sombich.

It is not just a local thing now. Lewis is taking a lot of heat for the way he is handling CJ. I think it all started with that stupid HOF gag. Hopefully, Johnson will get the message that he is hurting the guy that coddles him. Enough is enough already. If you want to celebrate, do something to win them a game. Then, do whatever the heck you want.

[HairOnFire]

There's one very simple reason you can't trade Chad: the Bengals don't have the salary cap space to absorb the circa $5 million hit they'd take in doing so.

Sure they do. For any number of reasons, including maximizing the potential trade return, no trade is likely to be considered until the offseason.

And knowing that, how long would it take for a cap cruncher like you to find the needed cap space?

Truth be told, it came to you instantly, didn't it?

[SkinneymulleT]

PFT is a joke.

I tend to agree with this sentiment and I had a really hard time convincing myself to go ahead and post that article when I read it on another site. But it did seem relevant and I kinda' knew it would spark debate so I threw it up there just to see what would stick.

Please. You sound like some whore who is cheating on her husband...normally I am not a whore, but this time...just own up to it. We all read it. It is information, you just have to note the source and discount the info based on that. And sometimes their info is right on. Truth is truth no matter who it comes from.

[HoosierCat]

For any number of reasons, including maximizing the potential trade return, no trade is likely to be considered until the offseason.

That 's just the point. It isn't a question of "fire Marvin or do nothing" right now. It's pretty much do "nothing" because the Bengals are pretty much locked in right now. You want to call for Chad's departure next year, be my guest. In fact, I must say I'm looking forward to your arguments as to why character issues should trump exceptional talent...

[HairOnFire]

For any number of reasons, including maximizing the potential trade return, no trade is likely to be considered until the offseason.

That 's just the point. It isn't a question of "fire Marvin or do nothing" right now. It's pretty much do "nothing" because the Bengals are pretty much locked in right now. You want to call for Chad's departure next year, be my guest. In fact, I must say I'm looking forward to your arguments as to why character issues should trump exceptional talent...

First things first. You seem to have dropped your own claim that the Bengals couldn't trade Chad due to the salary cap hit. So can I assume that I was right about you being able to instantly think of a way to make such a trade feasible?

Second, trading Chad after the season should bring plenty of talent in return. Waiting dramatically increases the number of teams able to bid and allows the Bengals the time needed to find a suitable replacment.

Third, I'm not suggesting that nothing be done now. In fact, I kind of like Housh's idea of naming names and demanding accountability in front of the team. (Not the media.)

Last, only a fool would ignore how often talent does trump character. But in this example we're not talking about using a 3rd round pick on a troubled player with 1st round talent. No, we're talking about coaching talent versus player talent. And on that score I'd not only side with Marvin Lewis, but I'd commit to him fully....even if it means tearing this team apart and beginning a new rebuild.

[HoosierCat]

You seem to have dropped your own claim that the Bengals couldn't trade Chad due to the salary cap hit.

No, I haven't. Right now, they can't take the cap hit. Which makes your now-multi-thread rant about trading Chad rather useless as a solution to the Bengals' immediate problems.

Last, only a fool would ignore how often talent does trump character. But in this example we're not talking about using a 3rd round pick on a troubled player with 1st round talent.

No, we're talking about trading a troubled player with first round talent. Same principle. And if Chad's truly a problem than I support getting what we can for him...just like I would have supported passing on guys like Odell.

[HairOnFire]

You seem to have dropped your own claim that the Bengals couldn't trade Chad due to the salary cap hit.

No, I haven't. Right now, they can't take the cap hit. Which makes your now-multi-thread rant about trading Chad rather useless as a solution to the Bengals' immediate problems.

You're ducking the issue, as is your habit. Point blank, will the Bengals have the cap room needed to trade Chad Johnson after this season?

As for what should be done immediately, read my post again and scroll down to the third paragraph. Once there you'll find what I'd do right now.

[HoosierCat]

You're ducking the issue, as is your habit.

And you can't read, as usual: I said they could not afford to trade Chad because of the $5 million cap hit -- a hit that is only applicable to this season!

[HairOnFire]

No, we're talking about trading a troubled player with first round talent. Same principle. And if Chad's truly a problem than I support getting what we can for him...just like I would have supported passing on guys like Odell.

It's not the same principle at all. In one example you're adding a high impact player like an Odell Thurman or a Chris Henry only after they've dropped so far in the draft that the risk is not only modest, but less than the potential reward. In the other example you're weighing the impact of keeping a very talented player whose behavior YOU'VE CLAIMED has resulted in the head coach losing control of his team.

[HairOnFire]

You're ducking the issue, as is your habit.

And you can't read, as usual: I said they could not afford to trade Chad because of the $5 million cap hit -- a hit that is only applicable to this season!

Then answer the question in the same point blank manner that it was asked. Will the Bengals have the cap room needed to trade Chad Johnson after this season?

The correct answer you can't bring yourself to say is yes.

[HoosierCat]

It's not the same principle at all.

Yeah, it is. Do you ignore character issues because of talent or not? And really, if only a fool wouldn't ignore character issues to take a potential 1st rounder in the 3rd, wouldn't it take an even bigger fool to not discount character in the face of proven Pro Bowl talent?

In the other example you're weighing the impact of keeping a very talented player whose behavior YOU'VE CLAIMED has resulted in the head coach losing control of his team.

Well, that's a different issue. That's not about character versus talent, that's about whether the coach has the ability to control said talented character. And yeah, I'd certainly say this team has made a good case for its avoiding character risks, because it hasn't shown any ability to handle them.

[HoosierCat]

Will the Bengals have the cap room needed to trade Chad Johnson after this season?

I never said they wouldn't, did I?

The correct answer you can't bring yourself to say is no.

[kenyon1977]

OK I made it through a page and a half of these posts and had to stop.

To those of you that say "trade Chad", you must have lost your minds.

The best wide out in the league and you want to trade him???? Who in the hell do you think is going to want to be traded to Cincy right now??? The team is unable to attract top notch freeagents let alone trade for a big name. Who wants to come live in Cincy when there are so many other nice cities to live in where it's warm year round? Hell they take pay cuts to go play for championship teams.

On ESPN radio there was an analyst that said the Bengals have the money to go get Haynesworth to shore up the D.

[Bengals1]

On ESPN radio there was an analyst that said the Bengals have the money to go get Haynesworth to shore up the D.

I heard that too, it was Peter King of SI who said that to Colin Cowherd on his radio program the day after the NE debacle.

They both agreed that Haynesworth was exactly the kind of high motor, high character leader the kitties need and that they could afford him if SoP would just break out his check book.

King was a lot kinder to the kitties than I expected, especially after their Monday night performance. He basically blamed a lot of their woes and all the "low character" players the franchise had brought in over the last few years and blamed them for bringing down the team. He praised Hall as exactly the kind of high character guy the kitties need more of and liked the pick immensely.

For his part, Cowherd wasn't as derogatory toward the team as he has been before and since. Maybe King mellowed him some.