Scouts Inc. Pats@Bengals Breakdown

[HoosierCat]

As one might expect, not too promising for the Bengals...

Everything clicking for Patriots

By Scouts Inc

Thursday, September 27, 2007

Why To Watch

Both teams have a lot of talent but their mindsets are totally different entering this game. Each has an explosive offenses that is capable of putting up a lot of points, but that is where the similarities end. The Patriots are a complete team with a smart, veteran defense and a solid special teams unit. The Bengals cannot make big plays on defense, especially against the pass, and they don't play with a lot of discipline. Quarterbacks Tom Brady and Carson Palmer are two of the best in the league and and if you like great offense this is your game. If the Bengals can put together a complete game they could climb back into the race and reclaim some of their swagger.

When the Patriots have the ball

Rushing: The Patriots have a two-headed monster at running back with Laurence Maroney and Sammy Morris, and because the passing game spreads out defenses and dictates a lot of nickel coverage the offensive line gets good blocking angles and Maroney and Morris find nice seams to run through.

New England also likes to utilize three-receiver, one-tight end sets that will make the Bengals hesitant to bring their safeties into the box and that loosen up the defense for the inside run. Cincinnati is very susceptible to over-pursuing misdirection and cut back lanes and the Bengals are too often out of position. Middle linebacker Ahmad Brooks and safeties Madieu Williams and Dexter Jackson are guys who sometimes take bad angles to the ball and they will be targeted by the Patriots. New England has an active and athletic offensive line that should be able to get out and seal off the backside, and then it will be up to the backs to make a quality move on the safeties. A strong running game by the Pats will also keep the explosive Palmer on the sideline.

Passing: Brady continues to do a great job of spreading the ball around and seeing the entire field. He distributed the ball to eight different receivers in last week's win over Buffalo last week and he is the best in the business right now at looking off defenders before coming back to his second or third option. Because his pass protection has been outstanding Brady is able to go through his progressions and he rarely makes a mistake.

The Bengals don't change up their schemes a lot and are easy to game plan against because they have consistent tendencies. They are playing a lot of man-to-man coverage schemes with limited help over the top, which makes no sense because they lack a true shutdown corner. Because the Bengals also tackle poorly look for the Patriots to maybe shorten up the passing game with three- and five-step drops and some slants and crossing routes across the formation that are designed to exploit that poor open field tackling. New England also has an excellent chance to make some big plays in the running game off play-action and will mix in some screens against an undisciplined Bengals defense. New England simply has too many weapons to cover, especially in empty formations and five-receiver sets.

When the Bengals have the ball

Rushing: The Patriots are difficult to run against because they give an offense so many pre-snap looks and alignments that the offensive line has a hard time figuring out blocking assignments and can be come confused. Add to that the fact that Cincinnati RB Rudi Johnson left last week's game with a hamstring injury and you have a Bengals offense that could struggle to move the ball. If Johnson can play the Bengals should commit to the run more than they have early in the season because the best way to protect their leaky defense is to control the clock and keep it off the field.

A strong run game would open up a the play-action package for Palmer and add an element of toughness that this team seems to be missing. The Patriots don't usually need to put eight in the box to stop the run (although their pre-snap movement will make it look that way) because they are big and physical up front. They will use some inline stunts, twists and slants to disrupt the blocking schemes, and holding blocks against this active front seven is difficult as linebackers are excellent at filling, sliding and tackling.

Passing: As well as the Bengals are throwing the ball and as hot as Palmer has been early this season, this is a passing game that tends to get greedy and always seems to be looking for home runs. That leads to a lot of three-and-out possessions that expose a defense that is on the field too often and is just not very good.

Without suspended No. 3 WR Chris Henry Cincinnati is forced to use a lot of two-receiver sets with Chad Johnson and T.J. Houshmandzadeh, with Johnson being the deep threat and Houshmandzadeh running the intermediate routes from the slot. One advantage of those slot formations, though, is that Palmer only has to read half the field and can make quicker decisions. We could see a lot of double moves as the wideouts try to get away from double coverage, but Johnson's out-and-up route takes time to develop and the pass protection must be good this week.

Look for the Patriots to give a lot of false pre-snap reads and mix up their coverages between man and zone to keep Palmer uncomfortable. Even though they may not blitz a lot, don't be surprised if New England brings a corner off the edge on a fire blitz from time to time.

Special Teams

You would expect the Patriots to be solid in the kicking game, and they are in the return game. Ellis Hobbs is explosive as a kickoff returner and Wes Welker is sure-handed and dependable as a punt returner. Their kicking game is a little less spectacular, but it doesn't have to be overwhelming at this point with the way the offense is playing.

The Bengals struggle in the kicking game and their cover teams seem to mirror their defensive deficiencies. They don't tackle well, they get out of their lanes and they just don't play with discipline. They have some explosiveness in the punt-return game, but that's about it. If there is a in this game on special teams it will likely come from New England.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/scouting?ga...eId%3d271001004

[BengalszoneBilly]

The Bengals don't change up their schemes a lot and are easy to game plan against because they have consistent tendencies.

Damn. The secret is out.

[HairOnFire]

Passing: As well as the Bengals are throwing the ball and as hot as Palmer has been early this season, this is a passing game that tends to get greedy and always seems to be looking for home runs. That leads to a lot of three-and-out possessions that expose a defense that is on the field too often and is just not very good.

Not only is this true, but the Bengals paid dearly for it against the Seahawks. Most troubling is the fact that Palmer already knows this and prior to the season claimed that he wanted to play more patiently, ala Peyton Manning. Instead, too often we've read his post-interception explanations about trying to take an opposing teams breath away early.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

They are playing a lot of man-to-man coverage schemes with limited help over the top, which makes no sense because they lack a true shutdown corner.

No s**t, Scouts Inc. Wait - blitzing the safety and leaving a rookie CB one-on-one with Braylon Edwards is a bad idea? Whodathunkit?

[HairOnFire]

Wait - blitzing the safety and leaving a rookie CB one-on-one with Braylon Edwards is a bad idea? Whodathunkit?

It wasn't man coverage. The defense on that play, as well as on the back breaker in Seattle, was Cover-2 zone. Leon Hall clearly blew the play in Cleveland, but against the Seahawks Jonathan Joseph played things far better by getting a much deeper drop into coverage. The common thread on both plays was Madiue Williams failing to recognize his responsibilites pre-snap, resulting in him being out of position to cover the WR after the CB released him.

And for those that disagree remember that Deion Sanders called Williams out after the breakdown in Cleveland and then did so again when breaking down film of the Bengal/Seattle game. Here's an exact quote from Deion Sanders describing Williams role on that play...

"Cover 2. Safety not getting over the top. There's no other responsibility. He's to the tackle side...it's not TE on that side. He should have been over the top."

Again, two weeks in a row.

[The PatternMaster]

Wait - blitzing the safety and leaving a rookie CB one-on-one with Braylon Edwards is a bad idea? Whodathunkit?

It wasn't man coverage. The defense on that play, as well as on the back breaker in Seattle, was Cover-2 zone. Leon Hall clearly blew the play in Cleveland, but against the Seahawks Jonathan Joseph played things far better by getting a much deeper drop into coverage. The common thread on both plays was Madiue Williams failing to recognize his responsibilites pre-snap, resulting in him being out of position to cover the WR after the CB released him.

And for those that disagree remember that Deion Sanders called Williams out after the breakdown in Cleveland and then did so again when breaking down film of the Bengal/Seattle game. Here's an exact quote from Deion Sanders describing Williams role on that play...

"Cover 2. Safety not getting over the top. There's no other responsibility. He's to the tackle side...it's not TE on that side. He should have been over the top."

Again, two weeks in a row.

which is why the players should be bearing the brunt, not the coaches. Madieu has been playing football far to long to consistantly make the same mistakes, isn't this a contract year for Mr. Williams.

[damiancasey]

To summarize...don't bet on the Bungles, folks...

[BengalByTheBay]

To summarize...don't bet on the Bungles, folks...

Dude, I'm not one to play the "newby" card, but take this quick note of advice ... stay away from the "Bungles" thing. I've seen it a few times from you already and, I don't know about anybody else here, but this pisses me off more than anything you could do. If you're, as you claim, a fan of this team, don't call them the "Bungles." There's way too much Chris Berman bad feeling wrapped-up with that term. If I'm wrong and you're not a Bengals fan.....then I don't care what you choose to do.

[damiancasey]

To summarize...don't bet on the Bungles, folks...

Dude, I'm not one to play the "newby" card, but take this quick note of advice ... stay away from the "Bungles" thing. I've seen it a few times from you already and, I don't know about anybody else here, but this pisses me off more than anything you could do. If you're, as you claim, a fan of this team, don't call them the "Bungles." There's way too much Chris Berman bad feeling wrapped-up with that term. If I'm wrong and you're not a Bengals fan.....then I don't care what you choose to do.

Dude - I am a newby and I am a fan of the team and if it's something that pisses you off - I apologize.

However - I'm not really sure why that particular term gets you so worked up. If you're that thin skinned about the Bengals getting made fun of then you probably can't watch any espn, listen to the radio, or even talk to anyone not from cincinnati about football. Because the Bengals have and do get made fun of quite a bit. Furthermore - I'm not making fun of one of your relatives - I'm poking harmless fun at a the Bengals.

I want the Bengals to go to the superbowl as bad as anyone - lighten the hell up.

BUT - again - if that touched a nerve with you it wasn't my intention.

Just an FYI - in the future if you are going to give people constructive criticism or sage advice about the unwritten rules of the message board you should probably do it using a private message. This looks an awful lot to me like you are calling me out in front of everyone and that's BS.

[CarsonCity]

To summarize...don't bet on the Bungles, folks...

Dude, I'm not one to play the "newby" card, but take this quick note of advice ... stay away from the "Bungles" thing. I've seen it a few times from you already and, I don't know about anybody else here, but this pisses me off more than anything you could do. If you're, as you claim, a fan of this team, don't call them the "Bungles." There's way too much Chris Berman bad feeling wrapped-up with that term. If I'm wrong and you're not a Bengals fan.....then I don't care what you choose to do.

Well said, and I agree completely.

As for Madieu Williams, he really has disappointed since his rookie season. Some were touting him as one of the Bengals' stars on defense. It seems Madieu will make some spectacular plays (blow up the QB, make a great tackle in the backfield for a loss), but far too often will get shredded in coverage or simply blow an assignment. As PatternMaster said, he's been playing far too long to make these BIG mistakes. We all know the situation with our (injured) LBers and (very young) corners, but I'd go so far as to say our safeties are hurting our defense the most right now.

[The PatternMaster]

To summarize...don't bet on the Bungles, folks...

Dude, I'm not one to play the "newby" card, but take this quick note of advice ... stay away from the "Bungles" thing. I've seen it a few times from you already and, I don't know about anybody else here, but this pisses me off more than anything you could do. If you're, as you claim, a fan of this team, don't call them the "Bungles." There's way too much Chris Berman bad feeling wrapped-up with that term. If I'm wrong and you're not a Bengals fan.....then I don't care what you choose to do.

Well said, and I agree completely.

As for Madieu Williams, he really has disappointed since his rookie season. Some were touting him as one of the Bengals' stars on defense. It seems Madieu will make some spectacular plays (blow up the QB, make a great tackle in the backfield for a loss), but far too often will get shredded in coverage or simply blow an assignment. As PatternMaster said, he's been playing far too long to make these BIG mistakes. We all know the situation with our (injured) LBers and (very young) corners, but I'd go so far as to say our safeties are hurting our defense the most right now.

Madieu will make one good play and then he thinks the game is over.

Vs. Cleveland he puts really good hit on Braylon Edwards, did his little dance thought he was hot s**t and then helped give 51 pts vs. the Browns lead by the great Derek Anderson.

vs. the seahawks he got a nice pick and return but failed to get deep enough to cover the wr on at the end of the game and gave up the game winning touchdown.

He needs to be more consistant for 60 minutes, not just make one good play think he's done his job for the whole game.

[BengalByTheBay]

To summarize...don't bet on the Bungles, folks...

Dude, I'm not one to play the "newby" card, but take this quick note of advice ... stay away from the "Bungles" thing. I've seen it a few times from you already and, I don't know about anybody else here, but this pisses me off more than anything you could do. If you're, as you claim, a fan of this team, don't call them the "Bungles." There's way too much Chris Berman bad feeling wrapped-up with that term. If I'm wrong and you're not a Bengals fan.....then I don't care what you choose to do.

Dude - I am a newby and I am a fan of the team and if it's something that pisses you off - I apologize.

However - I'm not really sure why that particular term gets you so worked up. If you're that thin skinned about the Bengals getting made fun of then you probably can't watch any espn, listen to the radio, or even talk to anyone not from cincinnati about football. Because the Bengals have and do get made fun of quite a bit. Furthermore - I'm not making fun of one of your relatives - I'm poking harmless fun at a the Bengals.

I want the Bengals to go to the superbowl as bad as anyone - lighten the hell up.

BUT - again - if that touched a nerve with you it wasn't my intention.

Just an FYI - in the future if you are going to give people constructive criticism or sage advice about the unwritten rules of the message board you should probably do it using a private message. This looks an awful lot to me like you are calling me out in front of everyone and that's BS.

If it's just me that hates that term then okay. If it's not, then pay attention. If you think I'm thin skinned, consider this guy who thinks he's getting "called out" in front of a message board and gets his panties wadded-up.

[damiancasey]

To summarize...don't bet on the Bungles, folks...

Dude, I'm not one to play the "newby" card, but take this quick note of advice ... stay away from the "Bungles" thing. I've seen it a few times from you already and, I don't know about anybody else here, but this pisses me off more than anything you could do. If you're, as you claim, a fan of this team, don't call them the "Bungles." There's way too much Chris Berman bad feeling wrapped-up with that term. If I'm wrong and you're not a Bengals fan.....then I don't care what you choose to do.

Dude - I am a newby and I am a fan of the team and if it's something that pisses you off - I apologize.

However - I'm not really sure why that particular term gets you so worked up. If you're that thin skinned about the Bengals getting made fun of then you probably can't watch any espn, listen to the radio, or even talk to anyone not from cincinnati about football. Because the Bengals have and do get made fun of quite a bit. Furthermore - I'm not making fun of one of your relatives - I'm poking harmless fun at a the Bengals.

I want the Bengals to go to the superbowl as bad as anyone - lighten the hell up.

BUT - again - if that touched a nerve with you it wasn't my intention.

Just an FYI - in the future if you are going to give people constructive criticism or sage advice about the unwritten rules of the message board you should probably do it using a private message. This looks an awful lot to me like you are calling me out in front of everyone and that's BS.

If it's just me that hates that term then okay. If it's not, then pay attention. If you think I'm thin skinned, consider this guy who thinks he's getting "called out" in front of a message board and gets his panties wadded-up.

My panties are un-wadded. Actually - I have boxers on right now.

...just filling you in on a rule of thumb for dealing with people...looked like you hadn't heard it before

FYI - there are all types of fans out there. Some more casual than others. You sound like you would fall in the "hardcore" category. You shouldn't let names get you all wroked up - trust me - you'll live longer!

[The PatternMaster]

Save it for the game fellas, it's like TC around here, can't wait for MNF!!!

[bengalsfansince68]

If it's just me that hates that term then okay. If it's not, then pay attention.

Damien, be sure that by the bay is not the only one who hates the term, Bungles!

I want to jam my foot up the asses of stealer fans who use it!!

I don't appreciate it any more from one of our own.

[damiancasey]

If it's just me that hates that term then okay. If it's not, then pay attention.

Damien, be sure that by the bay is not the only one who hates the term, Bungles!

I want to jam my foot up the asses of stealer fans who use it!!

I don't appreciate it any more from one of our own.

I read you loud and clear, guys, and if it pisses you off that much I'll lay off.

But - take a deep breath and think about what it is that's making you want to go on a killing spree - it's really not that big of a deal. Lighten up...

[HairOnFire]

As for Madieu Williams, he really has disappointed since his rookie season. Some were touting him as one of the Bengals' stars on defense. It seems Madieu will make some spectacular plays (blow up the QB, make a great tackle in the backfield for a loss), but far too often will get shredded in coverage or simply blow an assignment.

We barely touched on this during the offseason but the Bengals are facing a hard decision in regards to trying to keep Williams or simply let him depart in free agency. His upside is undeniable and at first glance he looks like one of the most promising young players the Bengals could build around. But there's something missing when a player of his ability consistently fails to be in position to defend routine plays. In his defense the Bengals openly challenged Williams to make a greater number of impact plays this season and he's doing that, but IMHO Williams has been far more responsible for the Bengals miserable pass defense rankings than most believe.

As for the Bungle thing, the word doesn't bug me nearly as much as the fondness so many Bengal fans have for making fun of their own team.

[damiancasey]

As for Madieu Williams, he really has disappointed since his rookie season. Some were touting him as one of the Bengals' stars on defense. It seems Madieu will make some spectacular plays (blow up the QB, make a great tackle in the backfield for a loss), but far too often will get shredded in coverage or simply blow an assignment.

We barely touched on this during the offseason but the Bengals are facing a hard decision in regards to trying to keep Williams or simply let him depart in free agency. His upside is undeniable and at first glance he looks like one of the most promising young players the Bengals could build around. But there's something missing when a player of his ability consistently fails to be in position to defend routine plays. In his defense the Bengals openly challenged Williams to make a greater number of impact plays this season and he's doing that, but IMHO Williams has been far more responsible for the Bengals miserable pass defense rankings than most believe.

As for the Bungle thing, the word doesn't bug me nearly as much as the fondness so many Bengal fans have for making fun of their own team.

Well, to be honest I've seen 4 types of criticism here

1) Harsh but constructive criticism - quite a bit

2) Angry, frustrated finger pointing - quite a bit

3) Mean-spirited trash talking - very little

4) Harmless fun poking (making fun of your own team) - a little

If I were the thin skinned type I think I would be most pissed off at the second category because it's very emotional and serious but irrational. Number 2 is exactly how bad decisions are made.

As for making fun of your own team...if you can't see the humor in your own plight...well..you need to get a sense of humor...

[BengalszoneBilly]

Well, to be honest I've seen 4 types of criticism here

1) Harsh but constructive criticism - quite a bit

2) Angry, frustrated finger pointing - quite a bit

3) Mean-spirited trash talking - very little

4) Harmless fun poking (making fun of your own team) - a little

Put me firmly in the #1 camp.

[Stripes]

2) Angry, frustrated finger pointing - quite a bit

I'd attribute 90% of the negativity here to this.

[damiancasey]

2) Angry, frustrated finger pointing - quite a bit

I'd attribute 90% of the negativity here to this.

completely agree

[HairOnFire]

Yeah, in retrospect it seems obvious I really sould get a sense of humor.

[kenyon1977]

Pats vs Bengals. Hmmm. I wonder how long it took to write that breakdown up? Screw it. That's why they play the games. I expect a good game and will be cheering for them to bring some pain to the Brady Bunch.

The one thing I kept seeing in the report is that the defense plays with no disapline. OK. We need to get everyone a shock collar and zap them when they screw up, that'll cut down on the mistakes.

As for the Bungles thing, it pisses me off because half of the games during the year they earn the damn nickname and the other 8 games they look like a top playoff team. I hear it enough from a couple of my prick steeler fan friends, but I don't end a friendship over the thing. It will stop when the Bengals win a damn superbowl, until then we could win 12 games thsi year and would still be called Bungles.

As for calling someone out on the message board, we what did you expect, a pm??? This is not your office, this is a message board and I guarentee it will happen often which I have seen since joining quite a bit. Get over it and move on. There's college football on today so grab a beer and some wings!!!!

[BengalszoneBilly]

As for calling someone out on the message board, we what did you expect, a pm??? This is not your office, this is a message board and I guarentee it will happen often which I have seen since joining quite a bit. Get over it and move on. There's college football on today so grab a beer and some wings!!!!

There sure is, and there was a great game on last night as FSU jumped on West Viginia early and held on for the upset.

[Tasher]

A. Wrong Board.

B. Wrong Year.

EDIT: Dear Mods, Sorry, totally OFF topic related to Scouts Inc Pat v Bengals breakdown...

...now for required on topic comment:

"eh"