Rucker suspended!

[HoosierCat]

Finally, I find it odd that anyone would agree Goodell is acting hypocritically, handing out individual punsihment unfairly, giving star players special treatment, and due to marketing and image concerns overwhelmingly targeting one NFL team above all others, and then conclude that Mike Brown is somehow at fault for refusing to support Roger Goodell when he was a candidate for the commish job.

Well, why do you think the Bengals were targeted, because God-el doesn't like the uniforms? And it isn't just Mikey's initial opposition to Goddy, it's a number of things, I'm sure. Like Mikey's habit of drafting lots of bad character guys that have in turn created all the PR problems. And the pain in the a$$ Mikey made of himself during the CBA negotiations. And the fact that few other owners apparently have any respect for Mikey and could care less if he gets kicked around. I find it odd you can't fathom this.

[DesperateDerelict]

Simply put, this isn't a crusade we're witnessing. This is marketing.

Sorry, I can't resist. HOF - you need to work for an agency (and I don't mean the CIA) !

It's obvous God-ell gets pleasure from punishing the Bengals

I believe there is no love lost between Good-all & Mikey, which now barely falls short of a vendetta. Roger Dodger is (apparently) smart enough to exercise his dictatorial powers in such a way that the media and NFLPA stay ignorant of his abuses of his office - but I'm convinced Good-all is now - and will continue to be - abusing said power.

Good-all's bigotry involves the color of a players jersey more than the color of their skin. If he's too inconsistent when punishing players for a combination of present and past indiscretions, there WILL be a hue and cry concerning the uneven handling of players' penalties based on their team colors. Therefore, he isn't obvious about it, but that doesn't mean he's fair.

For example, if Brandon Meriweather screws up, does anybody here believe that he would get an equal punishment as, say, Ahmad Brooks would for the same offense? Both had problems in college, but Meriwether now plays for the holier-than-thou Patriots, while Ahmad is already in stripes.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely . . . especially if that power is held by an attorney. Good-all SUCKS!

[The PatternMaster]

...Discrimination and racism exists both ways and is deplorable in all forms.

I agree with this statement 100%, reverse discrimination is at least as bad if not more common.

It has gotten so a white male cannot get a skilled job, even when he is the most qualified because he does not fill a spot in the quota system the company uses for hiring. All quotas based on gender or race are inherently discrimatory and need to be banned from use. Equal opportunity should be what it says, an equal opportunity for all, not just minority applicants. The best qualified person should get the job whether he/she is white, brown, green, or polka dotted.

It sure is hard to be a white man in America.

[SkinneymulleT]

...Discrimination and racism exists both ways and is deplorable in all forms.

I agree with this statement 100%, reverse discrimination is at least as bad if not more common.

It has gotten so a white male cannot get a skilled job, even when he is the most qualified because he does not fill a spot in the quota system the company uses for hiring. All quotas based on gender or race are inherently discrimatory and need to be banned from use. Equal opportunity should be what it says, an equal opportunity for all, not just minority applicants. The best qualified person should get the job whether he/she is white, brown, green, or polka dotted.

It sure is hard to be a white man in America.

It is if you want to get a job on ESPN or NFL network.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Simply put Godell has been a very bad Commish up to this point, very inconsistent and down right heavy-handed.

To me that makes Mike Brown one of only two (I think) owners that got it right in opposing him for commish in the first place.

It also seems quite obvious that all the big market teams hate Mike Brown for accuratly stating that small market teams are at a disadvantage and need some help to keep the NFL viable throughout the country. The NFL would not be interesting to me at all if it comes down to just the big market teams left, I dont care what owner can buy a championship. Let MLB and the NBA have that battle, I want the NFL to keep it's "any given Sunday" essence.

[redsbengalsbucks]

...Discrimination and racism exists both ways and is deplorable in all forms.

I agree with this statement 100%, reverse discrimination is at least as bad if not more common.

It has gotten so a white male cannot get a skilled job, even when he is the most qualified because he does not fill a spot in the quota system the company uses for hiring. All quotas based on gender or race are inherently discrimatory and need to be banned from use. Equal opportunity should be what it says, an equal opportunity for all, not just minority applicants. The best qualified person should get the job whether he/she is white, brown, green, or polka dotted.

It sure is hard to be a white man in America.

A good example of reverse racism, Thank you.

[SkinneymulleT]

The only racism involved here is from people who play the race card anytime a white person does anything involving a person of another race or when race is used as an excuse or disctraction for to excuse an individuals actions. Those who raise that question without any evidence or indication of such bias are themselves racist by definition. This league is something like 85% black. College recruiting bias is even worse. Now coaches who have no nfl experience (see marvin) are given a fast lane pass just because they are of a certain ethnic background while those who do not share that ethnicity and have done nothing but be born into the world a certain color, are passed up despite thier hard work and superior qualifacations. That is racist by definition. With the exception of Tom Jackson, every single black commentator towed the line with michael vick, 1st denying he did anything, screaming racism, then immediately becoming apologists for him, even going so far as to say that his actions are part of black culture that white people dont understand and the law was biased against him! And before he served a day or was even suspended, they immediately said he should get his job back. Hmmm, what were people and groups saying about Imus and Rush? How were they treated? And Michael Irvin? Life liberty and Injustice for some...Discrimination and racism exists both ways and is deplorable in all forms, but unless there proof of such, leave it alone.

wow..talk out of your ass much, there so much that is just factually wrong in this post I don't even know were to begin.

First off your definition of racism must be something you just made up. Secondly to imply that Marvin Lewis got his job because he is black shows me that your racist. You act like the colleges and the NFL give scholarships and millions of dollars to black athletes because they want to help them out, they do that because they give the universities and NFL teams the best chance to win.

You disgust me when you imply that these guys were given something that they clearly earned through talent and hard work. The saddest part is your so delusional that you really believe what you typed to be true and that there's nothing with that.

I love it when white guys become experts on racism and discrimination, next your going to tell me what it's like to give birth twins right.

My ass must be pretty smart.

www.culturalpartnerships.org/productspubs/glossary.asp

Prejudice or discrimination based on an individual's race. It can be expressed individually or through institutional policies or practices.

A legal definition involves using an immutable characteristic (you can look that word up yourself) as a determinitive factor in providing employment,housing, education, legal and politcal procedures ect.

Your another ignorant person who ignores facts (what is factually wrong with my comments...you point out nothing that is factually wrong, which makes you stupid, fact). Marvin had no nfl experience and was hired into the league as part of the minority job hiring process. Fact. marvin never played coached or the like in the nfl before pittsburg hired him as part of such. Fact. You simply do what most ignorant people do and try to place fictions and assumptions and resort to platitudes when someone points out something you dont like. Marvin has rose to head coach based merit. Fact. His start in the league came to him through a discriminitory program. Fact. The number of athletes that play highschool football v. the number of scholarships awarded to different ethnicities presents what educated people call disparate impact of race based policies. Fact. You have no idea what ethnicity I am. Fact! You are another ignorant person that thinks god has blessed them with the ability to pick and choose what discrimination is acceptable, which is unacceptable. FACT! Your a DUMB ASS! FACT! Clearly another american that thinks all racism exists only in america and is always the white man who is to blame for any and all social ills. DUMB!

[ShulaSteakhouse]

This thread gets my vote for the most useless, boring, off-topic and long-winded thread ever.

I am not even going to bother responding to anything.

[HairOnFire]

And it isn't just Mikey's initial opposition to Goddy, it's a number of things, I'm sure. Like Mikey's habit of drafting lots of bad character guys that have in turn created all the PR problems. And the pain in the a$$ Mikey made of himself during the CBA negotiations. And the fact that few other owners apparently have any respect for Mikey and could care less if he gets kicked around. I find it odd you can't fathom this.

Not only do I fathom it...it's the core of my argument. It would be something entirely different if we were all sitting here discussing how fair Goodell has been when handing out punsihment to individual players. Or how even handed he's been when dealing with all teams. Or how he's consistently ruled from the moral high ground instead of making hypocritcal rulings that bow to financial or image related considerations. But you have offered your agreement that this very clearly isn't the case.

I have very little doubt that Goodell isn't happy about Mike Brown's refusal to back down when debating small market issies...never mind the fact that Brown has every right to do so, and isn't alone in his concerns. Nor do I doubt that Goodell wasn't happy with Brown's decision to vote against the last CBA....never mind the fact that several owners have since admitted that it's a bad deal that should have been examined more closely before voting. And Goodell has made it clear that he doesn't appreciate Brown's history of drafting players with questionable character after they've fallen far enough to reduce the risk....but that's something that is true of almost every team in the NFL.

None of the above changes the fact that you're currently blaming an owner whose team you freely admit is being unfairly targeted.

And that's effed up.

[HairOnFire]

This thread gets my vote for the most useless, boring, off-topic and long-winded thread ever.

I am not even going to bother responding to anything.

Any thread that you're not a part of is good thing.

Beat it.

[HairOnFire]

Simply put Godell has been a very bad Commish up to this point, very inconsistent and down right heavy-handed.

To me that makes Mike Brown one of only two (I think) owners that got it right in opposing him for commish in the first place.

It also seems quite obvious that all the big market teams hate Mike Brown for accuratly stating that small market teams are at a disadvantage and need some help to keep the NFL viable throughout the country. The NFL would not be interesting to me at all if it comes down to just the big market teams left, I dont care what owner can buy a championship. Let MLB and the NBA have that battle, I want the NFL to keep it's "any given Sunday" essence.

There it is.

[HoosierCat]

And it isn't just Mikey's initial opposition to Goddy, it's a number of things, I'm sure. Like Mikey's habit of drafting lots of bad character guys that have in turn created all the PR problems. And the pain in the a$$ Mikey made of himself during the CBA negotiations. And the fact that few other owners apparently have any respect for Mikey and could care less if he gets kicked around. I find it odd you can't fathom this.

Not only do I fathom it...it's the core of my argument. It would be something entirely different if we were all sitting here discussing how fair Goodell has been when handing out punsihment to individual players. Or how even handed he's been when dealing with all teams. Or how he's consistently ruled from the moral high ground instead of making hypocritcal rulings that bow to financial or image related considerations. But you have offered your agreement that this very clearly isn't the case.

I have very little doubt that Goodell isn't happy about Mike Brown's refusal to back down when debating small market issies...never mind the fact that Brown has every right to do so, and isn't alone in his concerns. Nor do I doubt that Goodell wasn't happy with Brown's decision to vote against the last CBA....never mind the fact that several owners have since admitted that it's a bad deal that should have been examined more closely before voting. And Goodell has made it clear that he doesn't appreciate Brown's history of drafting players with questionable character after they've fallen far enough to reduce the risk....but that's something that is true of almost every team in the NFL.

None of the above changes the fact that you're currently blaming an owner whose team you freely admit is being unfairly targeted.

And that's effed up.

So the bottom line is that the "core or your argument" is "effed up." You're making even less sense than usual.

[Bobcat Bengal]

Simply put Godell has been a very bad Commish up to this point, very inconsistent and down right heavy-handed.

To me that makes Mike Brown one of only two (I think) owners that got it right in opposing him for commish in the first place.

It also seems quite obvious that all the big market teams hate Mike Brown for accuratly stating that small market teams are at a disadvantage and need some help to keep the NFL viable throughout the country. The NFL would not be interesting to me at all if it comes down to just the big market teams left, I dont care what owner can buy a championship. Let MLB and the NBA have that battle, I want the NFL to keep it's "any given Sunday" essence.

There it is.

no offense, but those owners don't give a flying f**k as to what any of us thinks.

At the end of the day, it's all about bottom line.

[Bobcat Bengal]

...Discrimination and racism exists both ways and is deplorable in all forms.

I agree with this statement 100%, reverse discrimination is at least as bad if not more common.

It has gotten so a white male cannot get a skilled job, even when he is the most qualified because he does not fill a spot in the quota system the company uses for hiring. All quotas based on gender or race are inherently discrimatory and need to be banned from use. Equal opportunity should be what it says, an equal opportunity for all, not just minority applicants. The best qualified person should get the job whether he/she is white, brown, green, or polka dotted.

It sure is hard to be a white man in America.

It is if you want to get a job on ESPN or NFL network.

It is if you're not a former pro-athlete.

[HairOnFire]

So the bottom line is that the "core or your argument" is "effed up." You're making even less sense than usual.

I see no reason for you to act dense deliberately.

Really, there's no need.

First, you've claimed I can't fathom something that I very clearly do. Now you're claiming that I'm calling my own rant effed up. And this makes no sense to you, right? Well, since you're struggling to grasp the obvious let me spell it out for you as simply as I can.

It's more than a little bit effed up for you to admit that Goodell is acting unfairly, hypocritically, and abusing the powers of his office...yet somehow conclude that Mike Brown brought all of this upon himself when he refused to support a man who would act in such a manner.

Got it?

.

[HoosierCat]

It's more than a little bit effed up for you to admit that Goodell is acting unfairly, hypocritically, and abusing the powers of his office...yet somehow conclude that Mike Brown brought all of this upon himself when he refused to support a man who would act in such a manner.

And as I have said -- and you agreed -- it goes far beyond Mikey's lack of support for God-el's nomination.

Got it?

[The PatternMaster]

The only racism involved here is from people who play the race card anytime a white person does anything involving a person of another race or when race is used as an excuse or disctraction for to excuse an individuals actions. Those who raise that question without any evidence or indication of such bias are themselves racist by definition. This league is something like 85% black. College recruiting bias is even worse. Now coaches who have no nfl experience (see marvin) are given a fast lane pass just because they are of a certain ethnic background while those who do not share that ethnicity and have done nothing but be born into the world a certain color, are passed up despite thier hard work and superior qualifacations. That is racist by definition. With the exception of Tom Jackson, every single black commentator towed the line with michael vick, 1st denying he did anything, screaming racism, then immediately becoming apologists for him, even going so far as to say that his actions are part of black culture that white people dont understand and the law was biased against him! And before he served a day or was even suspended, they immediately said he should get his job back. Hmmm, what were people and groups saying about Imus and Rush? How were they treated? And Michael Irvin? Life liberty and Injustice for some...Discrimination and racism exists both ways and is deplorable in all forms, but unless there proof of such, leave it alone.

wow..talk out of your ass much, there so much that is just factually wrong in this post I don't even know were to begin.

First off your definition of racism must be something you just made up. Secondly to imply that Marvin Lewis got his job because he is black shows me that your racist. You act like the colleges and the NFL give scholarships and millions of dollars to black athletes because they want to help them out, they do that because they give the universities and NFL teams the best chance to win.

You disgust me when you imply that these guys were given something that they clearly earned through talent and hard work. The saddest part is your so delusional that you really believe what you typed to be true and that there's nothing with that.

I love it when white guys become experts on racism and discrimination, next your going to tell me what it's like to give birth twins right.

My ass must be pretty smart.

www.culturalpartnerships.org/productspubs/glossary.asp

Prejudice or discrimination based on an individual's race. It can be expressed individually or through institutional policies or practices.

A legal definition involves using an immutable characteristic (you can look that word up yourself) as a determinitive factor in providing employment,housing, education, legal and politcal procedures ect.

Your another ignorant person who ignores facts (what is factually wrong with my comments...you point out nothing that is factually wrong, which makes you stupid, fact). Marvin had no nfl experience and was hired into the league as part of the minority job hiring process. Fact. marvin never played coached or the like in the nfl before pittsburg hired him as part of such. Fact. You simply do what most ignorant people do and try to place fictions and assumptions and resort to platitudes when someone points out something you dont like. Marvin has rose to head coach based merit. Fact. His start in the league came to him through a discriminitory program. Fact. The number of athletes that play highschool football v. the number of scholarships awarded to different ethnicities presents what educated people call disparate impact of race based policies. Fact. You have no idea what ethnicity I am. Fact! You are another ignorant person that thinks god has blessed them with the ability to pick and choose what discrimination is acceptable, which is unacceptable. FACT! Your a DUMB ASS! FACT! Clearly another american that thinks all racism exists only in america and is always the white man who is to blame for any and all social ills. DUMB!

Look here buddy, I'm not going to get into a name calling contest with you, BUT just like I don't you, you don't know me.

If you want to discuss this further we can start a separate thread in a non-football section of this forum.

[Stripes]

If you want to discuss this further we can start a separate thread in a non-football section of this forum.

Personal messages please.

[HairOnFire]

It's more than a little bit effed up for you to admit that Goodell is acting unfairly, hypocritically, and abusing the powers of his office...yet somehow conclude that Mike Brown brought all of this upon himself when he refused to support a man who would act in such a manner.

And as I have said -- and you agreed -- it goes far beyond Mikey's lack of support for God-el's nomination.

Got it?

I've had it from the start and without your help, thank you very much. Just struggling to understand why you're so quick to defend behavior that you've described as unfair, vindictive, hypocritical, and the result of a personal grudge.

[Bobcat Bengal]

If you want to discuss this further we can start a separate thread in a non-football section of this forum.

Personal messages please.

nah, I'd actually like to see their debate if you don't mind......

[HoosierCat]

I've had it from the start and without your help, thank you very much. Just struggling to understand why you're so quick to defend behavior that you've described as unfair, vindictive, hypocritical, and the result of a personal grudge.

I'm not defending it, I'm explaining it. You seem to believe that terms like "unfair" or "vindictive" are synonyms for "irrational" or (to borrow from DC) "arbitrary." They aren't. Mikey opposed God-el from the start, has publicly attacked Goodell's CBA extension multiple times, and as recently as today (see fox sports) reiterated publicly that while he may have been forced to avoid character risks in the draft this year, he won't in the future, Goody's policies be damned. In short, if Mikey continues to use the media to flip the bird to the Commish, what do you think will happen when he has to rule on Bengals players?

You want God-el to cut the bengals the same kind of slack he cut KC with Allen or Miami with Porter? Well, call me crazy, but Im gonna bet that Mikey swearing off character risks in the draft and shutting-TFU (publicly at least) about the CBA just might get the ball rolling.

[HairOnFire]

I've had it from the start and without your help, thank you very much. Just struggling to understand why you're so quick to defend behavior that you've described as unfair, vindictive, hypocritical, and the result of a personal grudge.

I'm not defending it, I'm explaining it. You seem to believe that terms like "unfair" or "vindictive" are synonyms for "irrational" or (to borrow from DC) "arbitrary." They aren't. Mikey opposed God-el from the start, has publicly attacked Goodell's CBA extension multiple times, and as recently as today (see fox sports) reiterated publicly that while he may have been forced to avoid character risks in the draft this year, he won't in the future, Goody's policies be damned. In short, if Mikey continues to use the media to flip the bird to the Commish, what do you think will happen when he has to rule on Bengals players?

You want God-el to cut the bengals the same kind of slack he cut KC with Allen or Miami with Porter? Well, call me crazy, but Im gonna bet that Mikey swearing off character risks in the draft and shutting-TFU (publicly at least) about the CBA just might get the ball rolling.

Well, theres the rub because few of us need to have things "explained" to us. Nor do we need to rehash the reasons behind Goodell's grudge. What's harder to understand is why you feel compelled to defend what can only be described as an abuse of power.

Does Goodell's grudge against Mike Brown justify his attempts to essentially railroad Bengal players out of the NFL using standards and tactics that don't apply to other teams? Does Goodell's grudge justify using legal tactis that you characterize as "reed thin"?

Oh, and I did read the article from FoxSports that quoted Mike Brown, and he not only admitted that his habit of taking risks on players of questionable character had hurt the team last season, but would be more guarded when considering those types of players in the future. So I'm not sure what grounds Goodell or you have for further complaint. Regardless, it's absolutely ridiculous to claim that Brown's statements could be seen as flipping the bird to the Commish. In fact, his statement about not changing relates only to the satisfaction he gets from watching players come back from adversity of all types, including from a questionable past.

Don't believe me? Well here are his words.

"It was mainly the public pressure. We were stigmatized and didn't want that. The league had raised the bar. Now that Roger (Goodell) is commissioner, he's made this a point of emphasis. The standards are higher. The sanctions are more severe." --- Mike Brown

"And internally, we didn't want to have to deal with that. Our coach didn't want to have to deal with that. It's just hard to handle players you can't depend on. Are they going to be here? Are they going to work hard when they're here? We have set about to bring in people we think are going to be dependable." --- Mike Brown

"When players come back from adversity of any kind, it pleases me to see them do it whether it's physical injury or personal problems. I think most people feel that way. We all want somebody to come around and prove they can do well. I plead guilty to that if that's a problem. I don't plan to change." --- Mike Brown

"When you live through things, you learn a lot," he said. "Would I do things differently? Based on what I knew at the time, I don't think (so). How will it impact me in the future? Well, I'm going to be a little more guarded than I have been." --- Mike Brown

"Our team has been hurt by this and we're trying to get it behind us. The way to do that is to not have this sort of thing happen. We're going to try and do that." --- Mike Brown

[HoosierCat]

Nor do we need to rehash the reasons behind Goodell's grudge.

Ah, good. We have finally established there are reasons that explain God-el's actions. That's something, I suppose.

What's harder to understand is why you feel compelled to defend what can only be described as an abuse of power.

Nope, sorry, it can't only be described as that. They are a use of power -- the only power the Commish has, under the CBA -- and their ultimate target is...Mike Brown. The point isn't to punish guys like Odell or Henry or Rucker, they are just caught in the crossfire. The point is to get Mikey to change his ways. Which he continues to reiterate that he won't. As you pointed out:

"When you live through things, you learn a lot," he said. "Would I do things differently? Based on what I knew at the time, I don't think (so). How will it impact me in the future? Well, I'm going to be a little more guarded than I have been." --- Mike Brown

"A little more guarded" is not Goody's goal. His goal is to break Mikey of his habit of taking character risks in the draft (among other things).

[HairOnFire]

"A little more guarded" is not Goody's goal. His goal is to break Mikey of his habit of taking character risks in the draft (among other things).

All teams take character risks in the draft. So how is "breaking" one owner while largely ignoring the actions of 31 others something worth defending? And are you seriously going to claim that Goodell will willingly ruin the careers of a few players, impose restrictions on one franchise that he doesn't apply to all others, and in general unfairly upset the competitive balance within the NFL because he's got a grudge against Mike Brown? And it's all justified because the new CBA and Goodell's confirmation weren't passed unanimously?

As for Mikey's quotes, you've now read them at least twice and still haven't comprehended what he said. In fact, you continue to insist he's saying things that he very clearly hasn't. For example:

"The point is to get Mikey to change his ways. Which he continues to reiterate that he won't." --- HoosierCat, responding to the FoxSports article

"Our team has been hurt by this and we're trying to get it behind us. The way to do that is to not have this sort of thing happen. We're going to try and do that." --- Mike Brown, quoted in the FoxSports article that Hoosier didn't understand.

[HairOnFire]

Nor do we need to rehash the reasons behind Goodell's grudge.

Ah, good. We have finally established there are reasons that explain God-el's actions. That's something, I suppose.

I'd say it was a given from the very start. Sadly, on this point you've either been arguing with yourself or busy pointing out the basics to posters who were already well aware of the things you were trying so hard to explain.

And for whatever it might be worth, I think you lost the "arbitrary" debate quite badly.