More Trouble for Odell?

[BengalByTheBay]

even Odell isn't stupid enough to f**k up again, is he?

......., oh wait

[HoosierCat]

IMHO, if an arrest warrant is issued, Odell is toast...

[Sandwedge]

Well said Shula!!! I've grown weary of this BS... Are we always going to be waiting for this guy to go off and do something stupid?? He's not even part of the team at the moment and look, it comes back to us..... O'Dell will end up killing himself someday, the guy is a wreck and Marvin knows it... He won't be back...

[duus]

I have found myself thinking about these things in a different manner recently. Would I fault Marvin and Co. at all if they simply cut players as Henry and Thurman? Union/contract rules aside, should they be able to do such a thing, I don't think I would be bothered at all. Would you as a fan? What percentage of Bengals fans would actually question them when/if they cut such players? I think it has to be a small percentage ... very small. Moving on.

[Sandwedge]

I have found myself thinking about these things in a different manner recently. Would I fault Marvin and Co. at all if they simply cut players as Henry and Thurman? Union/contract rules aside, should they be able to do such a thing, I don't think I would be bothered at all. Would you as a fan? What percentage of Bengals fans would actually question them when/if they cut such players? I think it has to be a small percentage ... very small. Moving on.

I don't think to many fans would be upset... Hey I was a huge O'dell fan, but he lost my respect by not being able to stay out of trouble...We have Brooks now in the middle and I have forgotten all about Thurman... Henry seems to be walking the razor's edge right now, I wouldn't bet the farm on him making it either....

[Tasher]

punk dude trying to get rich off Odell, methinks.

now, Odell shoulda nota been dere, neider.

oh, soory, Georguh drawl...

[GregCook]

I have found myself thinking about these things in a different manner recently. Would I fault Marvin and Co. at all if they simply cut players as Henry and Thurman? Union/contract rules aside, should they be able to do such a thing, I don't think I would be bothered at all. Would you as a fan? What percentage of Bengals fans would actually question them when/if they cut such players? I think it has to be a small percentage ... very small. Moving on.

I don't think to many fans would be upset... Hey I was a huge O'dell fan, but he lost my respect by not being able to stay out of trouble...We have Brooks now in the middle and I have forgotten all about Thurman... Henry seems to be walking the razor's edge right now, I wouldn't bet the farm on him making it either....

This story smells like someone just trying to stir up trouble for Odell. Of course Odell is a dumb a$$ to put himself in a situation where people could make these accusations, true or not. As far as I know Odell's problems of the past have been non-violent, he being mainly a drunk. Unlike Henry who is a mean drunk.

Need to check this out before throwing the guy under the Goodell freight train. After all, I could go to Georgia and swear out a complaint too. But I don't like Georgia and I want the Bengals to win the Super Bowl next year.

But then again, last I heard Brooks is looking pretty good. Odell will basically be taking the departed Nicholson's spot should he make the team. The guy is hanging by a thread, the worlds not fair and this could end it for him.

[derekshank]

IMHO, if an arrest warrant is issued, Odell is toast...

Dead on. Once the police are officially involved, it's not longer an internet rumor. It's not longer a skinny white kid's word against Odell's. At that point, it's a run in with the law - and we all know how Goodell feels about that.

[jjakq27]

punk dude trying to get rich off Odell, methinks.

now, Odell shoulda nota been dere, neider.

oh, soory, Georguh drawl...

Sounds a little Cajun or Jamaican to me!

[Spor_tees]

IMHO, if an arrest warrant is issued, Odell is toast...

Dead on. Once the police are officially involved, it's not longer an internet rumor. It's not longer a skinny white kid's word against Odell's. At that point, it's a run in with the law - and we all know how Goodell feels about that.

Dead on...I don't see two guys putting themselves in possible trouble for filing a false police report just to make Odell look bad. I mean besides, at this point how hard is it really to make Odell look bad?

[HairOnFire]

IMHO, if an arrest warrant is issued, Odell is toast...

Dead on. Once the police are officially involved, it's not longer an internet rumor. It's not longer a skinny white kid's word against Odell's. At that point, it's a run in with the law - and we all know how Goodell feels about that.

A couple of points.

First, the police ARE involved but only to the extent of investigating whether there's enough evidence for charges to be filed.

Second, we're not talking about a skinny white kid. More accurately, we're talking about someone who was at the same late night party and part of a group of people that were said to have pulled guns on Thurman's unarmed group when things got physical. So let's be clear that we're not talking about Jon Boy getting his butt whooped, and there may have been lots of reasons why the thumpin' wasn't immediately reported to the police by the so-called victims. In this case the victims may have been ditching handguns or drugs...or might simply needed a few hours to sober up before talking.

Last, Roger Goodell may not care about any of the above. John Clayton made the observation today that Goodell hasn't been consistent about waiting for the justice system to run it's course. Instead, he picks and chooses when he'll rule proactively or when he'll drag his feet, ala Mike Vick, and claim that he can't do anything until a player has been convicted of a crime. And on that point, Clayton speculated that Goodell may simply use the investigation to stall and delay his decision to allow Odell to return.

[bengalsfansince68]

There is a guy posting on DawgPost.com, a Georgia Bulldogs message board, who claims to have been at the party and says that Odell did nothing but turn around and walk away. He says he told the police and all the police wanted to know about was the guns. I'll try to add a link but I'm not sure I know how to do it.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=135#S=135&a...73&T=589984

Scroll to centralfan33

[Kazkal]

THURMAN IS STILL A BENGAL

We've seen some creative strategies over the past few months from teams who want to disown players who have gotten in trouble with the law. The Saints tried to pretend that they'd cut practice-squad linebacker E.J. Kuale long before he was busted on weapons and drug charges. The Steelers cut linebacker Richard Seigler after they found out that a warrant had been issued for his arrest on charges that he's a pimp, but before the warrant was actually served.

The Bengals are now attempting to try out a new approach, in light of the accusations directed at linebacker Odell Thurman. Faced with the possibility that a warrant for his arrest will be issued following a Friday hearing regarding an alleged assault, the Bengals are already taking the position that Thurman isn't really on the team.

"His situation is controlled by the league, he's not officially on our roster," team spokesman Jack Brennan told the AP. "Since his possible reinstatement is in the league's hands, we would defer any comment to the league."

Oh, but he is. He's not on the active roster. But the Bengals still hold his rights as a member of the team's reserve/suspended list. If/when he's reinstated following a minimum banishment of one year for violation of the substance-abuse policy, he'll be back on the team.

So he's no less of a Bengal that Ricky Williams is a Dolphin, Pacman Jones is a Titan, and Tank Johnson is a Bear.

If the Bengals wanted to wash their hands of Thurman, they should have done so. Sure, it might have been a violation of the CBA, but it was a violation of the CBA to cut linebacker A.J. Nicholson after he was arrested last month. That didn't stop them from doing it.

Thus, until the team washes its hands of Thurman, Thurman is a member of the team.

As long he's a Bengal I'll still back him hopefully this turns out like henrys last thing (mybe some truth but alot more BS)

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

A couple of points.

First, the police ARE involved but only to the extent of investigating whether there's enough evidence for charges to be filed.

Second, we're not talking about a skinny white kid. More accurately, we're talking about someone who was at the same late night party and part of a group of people that were said to have pulled guns on Thurman's unarmed group when things got physical. So let's be clear that we're not talking about Jon Boy getting his butt whooped, and there may have been lots of reasons why the thumpin' wasn't immediately reported to the police by the so-called victims. In this case the victims may have been ditching handguns or drugs...or might simply needed a few hours to sober up before talking.

Last, Roger Goodell may not care about any of the above. John Clayton made the observation today that Goodell hasn't been consistent about waiting for the justice system to run it's course. Instead, he picks and chooses when he'll rule proactively or when he'll drag his feet, ala Mike Vick, and claim that he can't do anything until a player has been convicted of a crime. And on that point, Clayton speculated that Goodell may simply use the investigation to stall and delay his decision to allow Odell to return.

As for the kids, I totally agree, these guys don't smell like innocent victims here, and just from a legal perspective I think there's no chance in hell of a conviction.

As for your running crusade against Goodell, I've never heard him say he's waiting for a conviction with Vick, I think you may be putting words in his mouth there. However, he may be waiting for the prosecutor in VA to say the same thing for two consecutive days. Goodell can act without a conviction, but it's going to be hard to act without charges even being filed.

You're probably right on the stalling on Odell, but I don't think it will be long - I don't see an arrest coming out of this case. It won't help Odell's case for reinstatement, but Odell can say he was at a party, the s**t hit the fan, and he got out of there without any proof to the contrary except a handful of miscreants who probably have their own foot-long rap sheet.

[derekshank]

A couple of points.

First, the police ARE involved but only to the extent of investigating whether there's enough evidence for charges to be filed.

Second, we're not talking about a skinny white kid. More accurately, we're talking about someone who was at the same late night party and part of a group of people that were said to have pulled guns on Thurman's unarmed group when things got physical. So let's be clear that we're not talking about Jon Boy getting his butt whooped, and there may have been lots of reasons why the thumpin' wasn't immediately reported to the police by the so-called victims. In this case the victims may have been ditching handguns or drugs...or might simply needed a few hours to sober up before talking.

Last, Roger Goodell may not care about any of the above. John Clayton made the observation today that Goodell hasn't been consistent about waiting for the justice system to run it's course. Instead, he picks and chooses when he'll rule proactively or when he'll drag his feet, ala Mike Vick, and claim that he can't do anything until a player has been convicted of a crime. And on that point, Clayton speculated that Goodell may simply use the investigation to stall and delay his decision to allow Odell to return.

I agree... but it's not an infamous "run-in with the law" until he's arrested. I'm not sure Goodell can get away with leaving him suspended unless the thing goes further.

I also only mentioned "skinny white kid" because some others on the board had said as much... so it was not really my terminology. I'm also not insinuating that Odell is the only one guilty... but he's the only one that has a chance to be suspended by the NFL. And frankly, that's the only thing that makes this a story. So the idea that there may be other guilty parties out there is fairly irrelevant... at least in the eyes of Roger Goodell.

Also, my main point is that Goodell loves to suspend players who already have a less than perfect media image. Given his heavy suspensions to guys known more for their off-the-field problems than their on-the-field heroics (Henry, Pacman, Tank... and Odell fits squarly in that category) I see no reason to expect Odell back if an arrest takes place.

[The PatternMaster]

It's rather amazing to me how many Bengals "fans" are so willing and quick to throw Odell life away based on accusations that are sketchy at best. One poster actually said he thought Odell was going to kill himself, how you came to that conculsion based off of this incident I have no idea, but that's pretty f**ked up.

If you read the article that tells the story, the facts don't add up and the alleged victims don't seem that credible.

Like I said before, if these guy did get beat up and guns drawn on him by Odell and his brother, why did he wait so long before contacting the authorities? Also doesn't the story say that they pulled guns on Odell first? How can you pull a gun on someone and still maintain that your a victim? There's no proof that Odell laid a finger on this guy, none whatsoever.

Note to all hypocritical self righteous Bengals "fans" who can't wait to throw Odell under the bus: This is America, a place were you are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. Just because you get accused of a crime doesn't mean you are actually guilty and should be punished and just because the media reports it doesn't make it true.

[membengal]

Sigh.

No one here is "throwing Odell's life away", PatternMaster. Everyone here who is noting the implications of this on Odell's future with the league are simply acknowledging in the NFL, it DOES NOT MATTER THAT YOU ARE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY in a court of law. Goodell's big-ass stick right now has zero to do with those kinds of constitutional law protections for accused persons.

Goodell is suspending people without indictments, much less convictions (see: Jones, Pacman). He is doing this under a general authority to respond with extreme sanction to those who "embarrass the league". Unfortunately, I suspect, since the Bengals in general and Odell in specific fall under that "embarrass the league" umbrella at the moment, this IS a big deal in terms of Odell's possible re-instatement if Goodell says it is. The only way to avoid that? Don't get in those situations right now if you are Odell. Get in them? Well, you are taking a massive risk. Get mad about that all you want, it's the simple truth.

Now, to be consistent, Goodell should also be suspending Mike Vick and Joey Porter, also under the "embarrass the league" umbrella, but I happen to think Goodell is a hypocritical prick, and such suspensions won't be forthcoming. That said, since the Bengals and Thurman are on the wrong side of that Goodell-is-a-hypocritical-prick line, I don't expect a similar "blind eye" from Goodell to this allegation. I just don't.

[DesperateDerelict]

It's rather amazing to me how many Bengals "fans" are so willing and quick to throw Odell life away based on accusations that are sketchy at best. ...... Note to all hypocritical self righteous Bengals "fans" who can't wait to throw Odell under the bus: This is America, a place were you are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. Just because you get accused of a crime doesn't mean you are actually guilty and should be punished and just because the media reports it doesn't make it true.

Pattern Master -

It doesn't matter what we fans think - it's what Good-all thinks. Since I'm a crappy typist, I'll copy it here:

With the current NFL climate, any hint of impropiety has to concern an NFL Player, and scare the sh$t out of anybody with past troubles. Good-all, for all of his noble intentions, has fostered an environment of fear and loathing that rivals the Spanish Inquisition - "You're guilty 'cause I say you're guilty".

If I'm a young idiot at a party that just got my clock cleaned, and Odell was just driving by outside, I would be tempted to mention him predominantly in my report to my friends . . . However, since it was reported that 'hush money' had already been offered, then PEOPLE WOULD BELIEVE THAT ODELL HAD BEEN INVOLVED REGARDLESS OF THE TRUTH. And, since Good-all is cleaning up an image, which is the result of people's perceptions, this could actually end his career no matter what had transpired this past weekend.

So, Pattern, the Good-all bus has Odell squarely in its high-beams, and is as implacable as the sound of a judge's gavel or a jail cell door slamming shut.

[The PatternMaster]

Sigh.

No one here is "throwing Odell's life away", PatternMaster. Everyone here who is noting the implications of this on Odell's future with the league are simply acknowledging in the NFL, it DOES NOT MATTER THAT YOU ARE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY in a court of law. Goodell's big-ass stick right now has zero to do with those kinds of constitutional law protections for accused persons.

Goodell is suspending people without indictments, much less convictions (see: Jones, Pacman). He is doing this under a general authority to respond with extreme sanction to those who "embarrass the league". Unfortunately, I suspect, since the Bengals in general and Odell in specific fall under that "embarrass the league" umbrella at the moment, this IS a big deal in terms of Odell's possible re-instatement if Goodell says it is. The only way to avoid that? Don't get in those situations right now if you are Odell. Get in them? Well, you are taking a massive risk. Get mad about that all you want, it's the simple truth.

Now, to be consistent, Goodell should also be suspending Mike Vick and Joey Porter, also under the "embarrass the league" umbrella, but I happen to think Goodell is a hypocritical prick, and such suspensions won't be forthcoming. That said, since the Bengals and Thurman are on the wrong side of that Goodell-is-a-hypocritical-prick line, I don't expect a similar "blind eye" from Goodell to this allegation. I just don't.

I expect Odell to be cleared of any wrong doing and to be re-instated by Goodell without incident. For all of Goodell's grandstanding let's not forget that he was extremely inclusive with the players as far as what strategy to take when dealing with the "offenders". TJ and Marvin sat down and talked with Goodell and gave him their input as to how to best deal with the precieved image problem the NFL is trying to correct, so what he is now doing comes with many players blessings. Goodell is fully aware that Odell's NFL future hangs in the balance and I believe he will be fair enough to let the justice system run it's course before he acts, if he acts at all. Yes, Goodell was harsh on Pacman considering he hasn't been convicted on any crime, but Pacman has a second chance, Odell doesn't.

We can't pretend to know reasoning behind's Goodell suspensions so to assume that Goodell is going to ban Thurman for life based on some weak accusations by a non-credible "victim" is jumping the gun, to say the least. Odell has done nothing wrong until proven otherwise and anyone that says anything to the contray is just spreading gossip, I don't feel comfortable with Odell's career being thrown away because of an internet rumor.

[HoosierCat]

I don't feel comfortable with Odell's career being thrown away because of an internet rumor.

No one is suggesting that it will be. However, if that internet rumor turns into an arrest warrant in a couple days, it's a whole new ball game. OTOH, if the hearing concludes there's nothing to the accusations, then it will all just go away.

[The PatternMaster]

It's rather amazing to me how many Bengals "fans" are so willing and quick to throw Odell life away based on accusations that are sketchy at best. ...... Note to all hypocritical self righteous Bengals "fans" who can't wait to throw Odell under the bus: This is America, a place were you are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. Just because you get accused of a crime doesn't mean you are actually guilty and should be punished and just because the media reports it doesn't make it true.

Pattern Master -

It doesn't matter what we fans think - it's what Good-all thinks. Since I'm a crappy typist, I'll copy it here:

With the current NFL climate, any hint of impropiety has to concern an NFL Player, and scare the sh$t out of anybody with past troubles. Good-all, for all of his noble intentions, has fostered an environment of fear and loathing that rivals the Spanish Inquisition - "You're guilty 'cause I say you're guilty".

If I'm a young idiot at a party that just got my clock cleaned, and Odell was just driving by outside, I would be tempted to mention him predominantly in my report to my friends . . . However, since it was reported that 'hush money' had already been offered, then PEOPLE WOULD BELIEVE THAT ODELL HAD BEEN INVOLVED REGARDLESS OF THE TRUTH. And, since Good-all is cleaning up an image, which is the result of people's perceptions, this could actually end his career no matter what had transpired this past weekend.

So, Pattern, the Good-all bus has Odell squarely in its high-beams, and is as implacable as the sound of a judge's gavel or a jail cell door slamming shut.

I honestly don't think Goodell is out of control when it comes to suspensions, yes Pacman has been convicted but he was around enough s**t in 1 years time that it was plainly obivious that he was making horrible decisions. Odell's situation is total different from Pacman's though, Odell hasn't been accused of being involved in shooting up a strip club doing the NBA All-Star Weekend, so you can't compare the two.

You mention that hush money was offered, that is pure speculation taken from a non-credible gossip website, you can hardly use that proof that Odell is guilty of anything and deserves to be punished.

Like I said, I would be extremely surprised if Goodell ended Thurman's career based on allegations, keep in mind for all of the suspensions Goodell has meeded out, he has yet to ban anyone from the league, he gave a few repeat offenders their truly last chance to redeem themselves and lead productive lives as NFL players.

[agreen_112]

A fight at a party is not a big deal, he shouldn't be there, but it's not breaking any rules/laws. Kicking the guy in the face... Hearing this just makes me want to see Odell on the field 100 x's more than before. I'm sure, if true, Odell's side to the story needs to be heard. And unless Odell actually had a gun in his possession and someone has a picture of it, I'm not worried about that one bit... Your damn right I'm coming back with a weapon if someone pulled one on me!

Patternmaster,

Actually I was speaking in defense to Odell, since at the time of my post the "rumor" was that someone pulled a gun on Odell first, then his boys came to back him up with their own guns... All I have to say, is that if someone pulls a gun on me they damn well better shoot me or I'm gonna f**k their ass up!!! Sometimes as a man, you gotta take the law into your own hands. Another man pulls a gun on me, I'm not calling the police. A man touches my daughter, I'm definitely not calling the police... I guess I just come from a different side of the fence than some of you.

Anyways, good luck Odell.

[The PatternMaster]

I don't feel comfortable with Odell's career being thrown away because of an internet rumor.

No one is suggesting that it will be. However, if that internet rumor turns into an arrest warrant in a couple days, it's a whole new ball game. OTOH, if the hearing concludes there's nothing to the accusations, then it will all just go away.

Please see post #63, 64, 74, 75, & 78.

Some poeple already have the noose ready(emm. Shula) and Sandwedge thinks Odell will kill himself in the near future. Obviously some people are forming their own conculusions based off an internet rumor.

Thank you

[ShulaSteakhouse]

I don't feel comfortable with Odell's career being thrown away because of an internet rumor.

No one is suggesting that it will be. However, if that internet rumor turns into an arrest warrant in a couple days, it's a whole new ball game. OTOH, if the hearing concludes there's nothing to the accusations, then it will all just go away.

Yep, probably. Ecspecially if Odell truly didn't do anything stupid other than be there (which he probably shouldn't have been any ways, considering his situation).

Supposably his brother put a gun in someone's mouth - I'm sure that's what the police are concerned about - that's a felony. WTF is Odell doing even putting himself in that situation? It doesn't get much dumber.

What the situation tells me though, is that Odell is still clueless, reckless, and stupid off the field and that he doesn't "get it" yet.

Therefore, maybe it's just a matter of time before he does screw up again in the future, and therefore Marvin may not even want anything to do with him - we don't know.

I hope Odell finds a way to ditch hanging out with the wrong people and commit himself to football instead of partying.

Apparently nothing's changed with him - who knows.

I am really frustrated with him - boggles the mind that someone who is now supposably "sober," can still make these poor decisions. Doesn't speak well for his future IMO, but, I dont' know everything.

[membengal]

It's NOT an internet rumor. It's an investigated incident. People are forming conclusions not on the incident, but on Goodell's possible reaction to the investigated incident.

Surely you must acknowledge that it is less than ideal that Thurman has put himself in this position vis a vis Goodell...