Bengals Sign Hartwell - merged

[hrod382]

Quick question since I haven't seen Hartwell play a lot.

What seem like his strengths/weaknesses. I've seen run support as one of his strengths, is he simply adequate in coverage or does he struggle in that area?

All I know really is he was a tackling machine in Baltimore.

[Kazkal]

So... Forget Odell.

It's kinda hard when you witnessed his raw freakin' ability. The guy plainly didn't suck in uniform. Out of uniform is another subject altogether unfortunately. I truly pray for his return. He was an animal!

I knew there was a reason you were one of my favorite posters on here <3.

[Spor_tees]

One thing is for sure, and that is there should always be a fresh LB on the field. I see the starters as being Hartwell at Weakside, Brooks in the middle, and Jeanty at Strongside. In nickle situations, Miller will come into the middle, Landon will replace Jeanty, and Henderson will replace Hartwell. If everyone lives up to their hype, that actually isn't all that bad of a group.

IF Odell comes back, and all the young guys live up to expectations, I can definitely see the Bengals converting to the 3-4 next year. They would just have too many young talented LB's to have them just playing special teams.

Honestly, when you think that Miller and Landon are basically auditioning this year for contracts with another team next year, and young players are playing to win time on the field, you have to expect a lot of effort from the LB corps which will hopefully translate into sacks, sure tackles, and wins.

[derekshank]

Not to beat a dead horse... but Odell's name isn't even so much as mentioned in Hobson's "LB Look" on the site. http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6029

I guess I would think that if the Bengals had any plans for him in the future, that Hobson would at least give him an ounce of love. But nothing.

And by the way... that oh so impressive picture of Odell flying through the air is just another example of him bing out of position and eventually looking foolish. But by all means, keep reminding me why I won't miss him when he's gone.

[The PatternMaster]

Not to beat a dead horse... but Odell's name isn't even so much as mentioned in Hobson's "LB Look" on the site. http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6029

I guess I would think that if the Bengals had any plans for him in the future, that Hobson would at least give him an ounce of love. But nothing.

And by the way... that oh so impressive picture of Odell flying through the air is just another example of him bing out of position and eventually looking foolish. But by all means, keep reminding me why I won't miss him when he's gone.

C'mon man at least adknowledge that was a great show of athletic ability, how many 230 lb men do you know that can do that.

Also, I think that the fact that they are moving Hartwell to OLB is proof that Odell is in their plans. People should really lighten up on the guy, he had to sit and watch for a whole season, he's given his pound of flesh, forgiveness is in order. Besides it not like he pulled a gun on someone while his game day jersey, he got busted for a DUI at check point leaving a club and he failed a few drug test.

While this actions were extremely stupid for someone with such a promising career, he was on his way to Hawaii if you ask me, but it doesn't prove that he's a menace to society or a dangerous person. He's a young man who came up the hard way who made some poor choices, being that he lives his life in the public eye everyone gets to see mistakes, but at 21, 22, 23 years old who hasn't made some monumental f**k-ups?

[membengal]

Why oh why do these discussions always turn to Odell? He's not here. Until he's here, no reason to talk about him. And, reading the tea leaves, sure doesn't look like he is going to be here anytime soon.

As for what IS here, I am now relaxed at LB thanks to the Hartwell signing. Enough quality and depth in place that I expect, barring a series of catestrophic injuries once again, an actual productive year out of the team's LBers...

[HoosierCat]

Belittle the Bengals free agent ways all you want, and most of you will do just that, but I think you'd be hard pressed to come up with two better bang for the buck signings than DT Mike Myers and LB Edgerton Hartwell.

Especially in the chaotic market we saw this offseason. The Bengals have done a fine job.

Let's not go overboard here, gentlemen. The Bengals signed an aging vet DT (again) to fill a hole created by the departure of a younger player, and their recent interest in Manny Wright tells me all I need to know about Myers. Like the departed Smith, he'll be little more than a pine-riding reserve as long as marvin remains infatuated with Fear the Fanene.

Likewise, Hartwell is a temporary measure on the weak side. He's never been a sack artist, and lacks the coverage skills of his predecessor. But if he can stay healthy (which remains a big if), he will further stiffen the run D, and provides a welcome vet presence on a unit filled with youngsters.

And let's not forget Step, an offensive lineman that even the offensive-line-challenged Cardinals threw away. He was an RFA and they didn't even bother to tender him.

The Bengals did what they could (which was very little) in FA after locking themselves down by franchising Smith, and their FA losses still far outweigh their gains. Hopefully we find a couple gems among our 2007 draft picks and the '06 guys who spent last year on IR or the PS. We're going to need them.

[derekshank]

C'mon man at least adknowledge that was a great show of athletic ability, how many 230 lb men do you know that can do that.

Alright. It was a great show of athletic ability. A show that did absolutley nothing to help the team. In fact, had he decided to show a little less athletic ability and just be patient, he might have gotten a sack. Of course, we wouldn't have an impressive picture to post on a Bengals forum time and time again reminding us all of how impressively one can waste athletic ability.

All of that to say, althetic ability doesn't count for s**t if you can't show the discipline and patience to make a damn tackle.

Also, I think that the fact that they are moving Hartwell to OLB is proof that Odell is in their plans.

I don't know if I've ever seen a more inaccurate deduction. Hartwell's move to OLB has been repeatedly explained by the presence of Ahmad Brooks at MLB. By the way, I think Brooks is the better athlete compared to Odell... so if he can be more disciplined than Odell (which shouldn't be too difficult), it will be pretty easy to forget about old #51.

I'll admit that I am prone to hyperbole, but what I'm really saying is, with the presence of Ahmad Brooks, I don't think I ever want to see Odell Thurman as the MLB. That has everything to do with ability... nothing to do with his suspension (although the fact that he's one mistake away from another year off is another great argument not to rely on his services).

Why oh why do these discussions always turn to Odell? He's not here. Until he's here, no reason to talk about him. And, reading the tea leaves, sure doesn't look like he is going to be here anytime soon.

Agreed. I don't know why Odell is so hard to get over for so many fans. He had a lot of Int's... but he wasn't really that great. Lots of potential that has been yet unreached - and by the looks of it, possibly never will.

[The PatternMaster]

C'mon man at least adknowledge that was a great show of athletic ability, how many 230 lb men do you know that can do that.

Alright. It was a great show of athletic ability. A show that did absolutley nothing to help the team. In fact, had he decided to show a little less athletic ability and just be patient, he might have gotten a sack. Of course, we wouldn't have an impressive picture to post on a Bengals forum time and time again reminding us all of how impressively one can waste athletic ability.

All of that to say, althetic ability doesn't count for s**t if you can't show the discipline and patience to make a damn tackle.

Also, I think that the fact that they are moving Hartwell to OLB is proof that Odell is in their plans.

I don't know if I've ever seen a more inaccurate deduction. Hartwell's move to OLB has been repeatedly explained by the presence of Ahmad Brooks at MLB. By the way, I think Brooks is the better athlete compared to Odell... so if he can be more disciplined than Odell (which shouldn't be too difficult), it will be pretty easy to forget about old #51.

I'll admit that I am prone to hyperbole, but what I'm really saying is, with the presence of Ahmad Brooks, I don't think I ever want to see Odell Thurman as the MLB. That has everything to do with ability... nothing to do with his suspension (although the fact that he's one mistake away from another year off is another great argument not to rely on his services).

Why oh why do these discussions always turn to Odell? He's not here. Until he's here, no reason to talk about him. And, reading the tea leaves, sure doesn't look like he is going to be here anytime soon.

Agreed. I don't know why Odell is so hard to get over for so many fans. He had a lot of Int's... but he wasn't really that great. Lots of potential that has been yet unreached - and by the looks of it, possibly never will.

As far as Hartwell's position is concerned it would make more sense to me to put a seasoned & experienced guy who has played the inside lb spot at a Pro Bowl level in here instead of a guy who has like 4 games expereince, plus putting Brooks at ROLB will allow him to come off the edge and use his physical gifts to get after the qb.

Edit: Also I was reading Bengals.com and found this little tidbit I thought was pretty interesting regarding the position of the newly acquired Hartwell...

Marvin Lewis wouldn't comment earlier this week when asked where Hartwell would play. The Bengals have penciled in second-year man Ahmad Brooks in the middle

Until Marvin says something everything else is just speculation, no one knows were Hartwell will be playing.

[Walrus]

I don't know why Odell is so hard to get over for so many fans. He had a lot of Int's... but he wasn't really that great. Lots of potential that has been yet unreached - and by the looks of it, possibly never will.

Unfortunately, the best-case scenerio for Odell would be for him to quietly come back and work his way from the back of the pack into a position where he could see some playing time as a backup MLB. Everyone knows that the lack of continuity and talent at MLB has been a key weakness of this D. As much talent as he brings, Odell simply isn't a guy who can provide the other component we need: stability. Unfortunately, due to his disciplinary status he'll never be more than a talented guy who CANNOT be counted on in any team's long-range plans.

[derekshank]

Until Marvin says something everything else is just speculation, no one knows were Hartwell will be playing.

How about Hartwell's own words? http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/

Hartwell: “We’re going to leave [brooks] in the middle. I’m going to slide over to the Will linebacker. Using my experience can help the other linebackers there and teach them some of the things that I’ve learned coming up in the league.

Seems like a pretty sure thing to me. Unless of course this is a conspiracy theory that Hartwell is a part of.

As far as Hartwell's position is concerned it would make more sense to me to put a seasoned & experienced guy who has played the inside lb spot at a Pro Bowl level in here instead of a guy who has like 4 games expereince

The same argument could be made against putting Odell back in the middle since he was so often out of position. Brooks has been placed in the middle. If Odell wants to play for the Bengals again, it will either be as a back-up or at the weak-side.

[The PatternMaster]

Until Marvin says something everything else is just speculation, no one knows were Hartwell will be playing.

How about Hartwell's own words? http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/

Hartwell: "We're going to leave [brooks] in the middle. I'm going to slide over to the Will linebacker. Using my experience can help the other linebackers there and teach them some of the things that I've learned coming up in the league.

Seems like a pretty sure thing to me. Unless of course this is a conspiracy theory that Hartwell is a part of.

As far as Hartwell's position is concerned it would make more sense to me to put a seasoned & experienced guy who has played the inside lb spot at a Pro Bowl level in here instead of a guy who has like 4 games expereince

The same argument could be made against putting Odell back in the middle since he was so often out of position. Brooks has been placed in the middle. If Odell wants to play for the Bengals again, it will either be as a back-up or at the weak-side.

how do you know it's NOT a conspiracy!!!

[Jet23]

Perhaps he wants a pony...

No Pony. It turns out that MB was saving all of his ponies for grievances and injury settlements...

[Kazkal]

And by the way... that oh so impressive picture of Odell flying through the air is just another example of him bing out of position and eventually looking foolish. But by all means, keep reminding me why I won't miss him when he's gon

But Caleb or our other young backers were never out of postion,Brooks after barley getting any playing time i'm sure will be caught of postion it happens to young players.

[WhoDeyForever]

Where have I been? I just saw this signing..Good signing..Hopefully he can stay healthy and make a big contribution to this team..I think he can..Thank you Mike Brown & Marvin Lewis for finally signing a good FA.

[jjakq27]

Where have I been? I just saw this signing..Good signing..Hopefully he can stay healthy and make a big contribution to this team..I think he can..Thank you Mike Brown & Marvin Lewis for finally signing a good FA.

No it was probably only Marvin.

[bengalsfansince68]

And by the way... that oh so impressive picture of Odell flying through the air is just another example of him bing out of position and eventually looking foolish. But by all means, keep reminding me why I won't miss him when he's gone.

Derek, if you can't see the positive effect that Odell could have, you must have slept through '05.

He sure made a lot of plays for a guy who was always out of position.

[derekshank]

And by the way... that oh so impressive picture of Odell flying through the air is just another example of him bing out of position and eventually looking foolish. But by all means, keep reminding me why I won't miss him when he's gone.

Derek, if you can't see the positive effect that Odell could have, you must have slept through '05.

He sure made a lot of plays for a guy who was always out of position.

Possibly why he made so many Int's? The QB's weren't expecting him to be so far out of position.

As far as me sleeping through the '05 season... no I remember how bad our rush defense was that year. Worse than it was last year with a bunch of 3rd string LB's. But none of that was Odell's fault, right?

Look. My only point is that Odell didn't play nearly as well as he was given credit for. Basically, I see no reason to go on wishing and hoping he'd come back in superhero form. He wasn't bad... but he wasn't that great to begin with, so there's no reason to lament his absence or be giddy with delight by his presence.

Frankly, I'm not sure he could find a starting job on this team with Hartwell/Brooks/Jeanty even in his '05 form. It's even less likely that it could happen after he's had a year off to get fat and out of shape... not to mention that Marvin doesn't trust him, and would probably be unwise to count on him.

[bengalsfansince68]

"Possibly why he made so many Int's? The QB's weren't expecting him to be so far out of position."

Wow Derek, you blew your credibility with two sentences. Odell had 5 picks as a freakin' rookie middle linebacker and in your mind it's because he was never in position. I have ten games on tape from '05 and I watch them. Odell's picks were only part of the many big plays he made. Of course he got caught out of position from time to time, he was a rookie, but he damn sure made enough big plays to qualify as having a fine rookie season.

I like Jeanty but he did not have a better season in '06 than Odell did in '05.

Certainly Odell has a long way to go to come back but everyone characterizing it as impossible agitates me.

It is not impossible and the team will be better if he does get back.

Enough of all the pessimism.

If you have to "self-appoint" yourself a voice of reason, you probably ain't one.

[GapControl]

Wow... Odell Thurman is becoming a kind of shining armored knight on a white horse on Bengalszone. We sign a former probowl caliber LB who started out with arguably the best d in the league, year in and year out (ratbirds) and everyone is still talking Odell.

With Odell, our defense sucked in 05. The way I remember it is that everyone was so happy bc we could look to Odell and Pollacks 2nd year and dream possibilities... but those days are long gone. Given what has happened to those two guys... we should focus on the now. Hartwell, Brooks, Jeanty, Landon, Henderson, maybe Everett, Nicholson... and the others that actually will be on the field.

Pollack and Odell are shelved.

[Spor_tees]

If Odell was so great as a rookie, then why did he not even place in the top 3 for defensive rookie of the year?

[Kazkal]

Um If I'm not mistaken he did.

Top 3 was Shawn Merriman,Odell & Lofa no?

[Player4]

"Possibly why he made so many Int's? The QB's weren't expecting him to be so far out of position."

Wow Derek, you blew your credibility with two sentences. Odell had 5 picks as a freakin' rookie middle linebacker and in your mind it's because he was never in position. I have ten games on tape from '05 and I watch them. Odell's picks were only part of the many big plays he made. Of course he got caught out of position from time to time, he was a rookie, but he damn sure made enough big plays to qualify as having a fine rookie season.

I like Jeanty but he did not have a better season in '06 than Odell did in '05.

Certainly Odell has a long way to go to come back but everyone characterizing it as impossible agitates me.

It is not impossible and the team will be better if he does get back.

Enough of all the pessimism.

If you have to "self-appoint" yourself a voice of reason, you probably ain't one.

Longtime lurker here. It's rare that I post. I'm chiming in to say that I agree with bengalsfansince68 in that it is NOT impossible for Odell to eventually work his way back to being a contributer...and if he does the Bengals will be better for it. He showed enough talent in his rookie season to make that clear.

If Odell never plays another down for the Bengals we will be fine though.

Let's not get personal with this line of discussion guys. I enjoy the contributions that both of you guys make on this board and often agree with both of you. You'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

[derekshank]

"Possibly why he made so many Int's? The QB's weren't expecting him to be so far out of position."

Wow Derek, you blew your credibility with two sentences.

It was a joke. Take it easy.

The self appointed voice of reason thing is also a joke. So again... Take it easy.

And if we are bragging about how many games from the '05 season we have on tape... I have all of them. Odell made 5 Int's... but he really hurt the running game. There is simply no denying it. Could he improve? Absolutely... but he wasn't learning very fast in '05, and had to sit down in '06, and is one mistake away from sitting down for another year.

Do you really think the coaching staff is going to spend all of their time training him to become a great backer when he is so unreliable? Especially when his replacement was drafted in the supplementary draft... a guy with even more potential than Odell has.

The point is... this team has planned for him not to return. Every move they make indicates they aren't expecting him back. Could he ever return and eventually contribute? Sure... why not? But why put all of our hopes in a guy who wouldn't even be starting this year with the 3 backers we have? (Odell could never play SSLB - which is why he would not take Jeanty's job).

P.S. If you go through and read my posts, you'll find that I have forever been an optimist, not a pessimist. The Odell saga just does not bode well for those of us living in reality. He's not been heard from since he cleaned his locker out last year. Tell me... why so much hope for his return?

[derekshank]

With Odell, our defense sucked in 05. The way I remember it is that everyone was so happy bc we could look to Odell and Pollacks 2nd year and dream possibilities... but those days are long gone. Given what has happened to those two guys... we should focus on the now. Hartwell, Brooks, Jeanty, Landon, Henderson, maybe Everett, Nicholson... and the others that actually will be on the field.

Pollack and Odell are shelved.

Couldn't have said it better myself - although I have more hope for Pollack's return than Odell's. We're still at least hearing stories about Pollack. Odell is a ghost.