Is the defense better?

[derekshank]

Marvin vowed that the defense would improve this year. Did he keep his word?

D-Line

Virtually no changes. Brought in Myers, but it's going to be the same basic D-Line this year. Bit of a disappointment that it wasn't addressed more... but I don't think the D-Line was the biggest problem last year. It stopped the run... didn't generate much of a pass-rush, but I think that was largely a LB problem (They didn't plan for the Pollack injury).

Line-Backers

Depends on Hartwell signing. He's and upgrade over Simmons. Not having Pollack is still a step back from last year at this time... but Hartwell, Brooks, Jeanty is probably just as good if not better than the L. Johnson, Simmons, Pollack from last year.

I have questions about the pass-rush from the SSLB position. Maybe Eric Henderson? Maybe Brooks ends up as the SSLB? Who knows... but I think we are at least as good at LB as we were last year before the injuries - and if you recall, there were a lot of high hopes before Pollack went down. I also have more confidence in the depth (i.e. Caleb Miller) than I did last year.

Secondary

Far and away the most improved aspect of the defense.

Joseph, O'Neil, Hall is far superior to O'Neil, James, Joseph. I also absolutely love the Marvin White pick. Talk about an upgrade over KK! He's going to bring an intimidation factor that the secondary hasn't had for a long time. Madieu and Dexter are still solid, but the depth at safety isn't a huge concern for the first time since Marvin Lewis came.

All in all... If the Bengals can find some sort of pass-rush from the SSLB position, the secondary is improved enough to make it count for something. I don't have exceptionally high-hopes for this defense like I did last year... but I certainly think it is improved.

This team is still an offense first team. Palmer should be fully recovered, Irons should improve the running game, and there are a ton of WR's coming off injuries. If the offense gets back to '05 form, I think the defense is improved enough to make a playoff run.

Alright... I'm getting pumped. Is it week 1 yet?

[palmmyjohnson]

I like that we keep getting young hard-hitting players with upside. If we had Odell and a healthy Pollack (at DE or LB), I'd say this is a unit poised for great things over the next couple seasons. As it is, I think the D unit will jump to low-middle of the pack. Say 18-20 in total D. I expect a quantum leap after this season. I also think that a 100% Palmer plus a revitalized running game will help the D alot. Henry missing eight games takes away some of our home run threats, but keeps the O out there longer. May help the D alot. I think the configuration of the team this year, plus upgraded personnel will create a decent improvement.

[Stripes]

After dropping Tory, I think the defense would have been noteably improved without drafting anyone at all. Toss in Hall, Toepaia, White, Myers, and maybe Hartwell, and we ought to see a better unit this year.

[kingwilly]

Marvin vowed that the defense would improve this year. Did he keep his word?

D-Line

Virtually no changes. Brought in Myers, but it's going to be the same basic D-Line this year. Bit of a disappointment that it wasn't addressed more... but I don't think the D-Line was the biggest problem last year. It stopped the run... didn't generate much of a pass-rush, but I think that was largely a LB problem (They didn't plan for the Pollack injury).

Line-Backers

Depends on Hartwell signing. He's and upgrade over Simmons. Not having Pollack is still a step back from last year at this time... but Hartwell, Brooks, Jeanty is probably just as good if not better than the L. Johnson, Simmons, Pollack from last year.

I have questions about the pass-rush from the SSLB position. Maybe Eric Henderson? Maybe Brooks ends up as the SSLB? Who knows... but I think we are at least as good at LB as we were last year before the injuries - and if you recall, there were a lot of high hopes before Pollack went down. I also have more confidence in the depth (i.e. Caleb Miller) than I did last year.

Secondary

Far and away the most improved aspect of the defense.

Joseph, O'Neil, Hall is far superior to O'Neil, James, Joseph. I also absolutely love the Marvin White pick. Talk about an upgrade over KK! He's going to bring an intimidation factor that the secondary hasn't had for a long time. Madieu and Dexter are still solid, but the depth at safety isn't a huge concern for the first time since Marvin Lewis came.

All in all... If the Bengals can find some sort of pass-rush from the SSLB position, the secondary is improved enough to make it count for something. I don't have exceptionally high-hopes for this defense like I did last year... but I certainly think it is improved.

This team is still an offense first team. Palmer should be fully recovered, Irons should improve the running game, and there are a ton of WR's coming off injuries. If the offense gets back to '05 form, I think the defense is improved enough to make a playoff run.

Alright... I'm getting pumped. Is it week 1 yet?

Excellent asessment, Derek. I think the S depth is OK, the CB's are still young but what can you do? The LB could get a boost if AJ can get healthy and Odell (not in any way holding my breath) could possibly get his act together. <sigh>

[derekshank]

Excellent asessment, Derek. I think the S depth is OK, the CB's are still young but what can you do? The LB could get a boost if AJ can get healthy and Odell (not in any way holding my breath) could possibly get his act together. <sigh>

Yeah... put me in the camp that has higher expectations for Nicholson than Odell. That's not all bad though. Nicholson was a very good college LB. He could surprise.

[ArmyBengal]

I agree with having a healthy Pollack and a non-stupid Odell would have changed many things on this defense. I think we have improved, but the D-line continues (what 5 years now) to do the biggest issue for our defense. This would have to look like the direction we travel in for next years draft or maybe look for someone on the waiver wires. I'm getting sick of the waiver wires myself !!!

WHODEY !!!

[JoePong]

This entire premise is stupid. I suppose players stay at exactly the same level year in and year out. Players never improve? Players never regress?

You don't have to change personnel to make improvements or to get worse. Some teams are full of young players on the rise and their team will improve immensely by maintaining the status quo. Some teams just need to get healthy. Some teams are great but will regress quite a bit because they have older players on the decline. Some teams are medicore with players who are in the prime of their careers with no hope of improvement. Those are the teams that need to inject new personnel and make changes.

D-Line: You don't think Peko will be better than last year? You don't think Geathers will be better than last year? You don't think a healthy and in-shape Sam Adams will be better? Fanene who has lots of ability and did nothing because he was hurt all last year? Frostee Rucker?

LB: You don't think Jeanty will be better than he was as a rookie? You don't think Ahmad Brooks will be better than he was as a rookie? Eric Henderson? AJ Nicholson-who is better than most of the LBs people were clamoring for us to take in the draft THIS year, who also missed most of his rookie season becasue of injury?

DB: Jonathan Joseph peaked last year and is never going to improve? Ethan Kilmer? Madieu Williams, Leon Hall? Deltha O'Neal who struggled because he was injured all year isn't going to improve his play at all? Having a healthy Dexter Jackson for a full season?

Not to even mention the possible return of Pollack and Thurman.

We already had the personnel in place to make big improvements. The people are already in the building. If we had a team full of John Thorntons, Bryan Robinsons, and Brian Simmons who had already maxed out and nobody to replace them with, and we didn;t have any problems with injuries last year, I might be able to agree with you, but your analysis in this case is extremely simple-minded and short-sighted. You bring in a bunch of young, talented players, develop them over time and your defense improves as they improve and grow together in the defensive system.

[derekshank]

This entire premise is stupid.

Thanks there JoePong. My bad for attempting to start a discussion about whether we are in a better situation than we were at this time last year. My apologies for wasting your time.

By the way, my entire premise was saying that the defense has improved... then you spent 4 paragraphs agreeing with me, but telling me I'm stupid. I'm not exactly sure how you did that... But you built straw men, made faulty assumptions about my opinion, and ultimately made yourself look less than bright.

All of that to say... we agree. I'm not sure why you're so angry in my direction.

[Spor_tees]

This entire premise is stupid. I suppose players stay at exactly the same level year in and year out. Players never improve? Players never regress?

You don't have to change personnel to make improvements or to get worse. Some teams are full of young players on the rise and their team will improve immensely by maintaining the status quo. Some teams just need to get healthy. Some teams are great but will regress quite a bit because they have older players on the decline. Some teams are medicore with players who are in the prime of their careers with no hope of improvement. Those are the teams that need to inject new personnel and make changes.

D-Line: You don't think Peko will be better than last year? You don't think Geathers will be better than last year? You don't think a healthy and in-shape Sam Adams will be better? Fanene who has lots of ability and did nothing because he was hurt all last year? Frostee Rucker?

LB: You don't think Jeanty will be better than he was as a rookie? You don't think Ahmad Brooks will be better than he was as a rookie? Eric Henderson? AJ Nicholson-who is better than most of the LBs people were clamoring for us to take in the draft THIS year, who also missed most of his rookie season becasue of injury?

DB: Jonathan Joseph peaked last year and is never going to improve? Ethan Kilmer? Madieu Williams, Leon Hall? Deltha O'Neal who struggled because he was injured all year isn't going to improve his play at all? Having a healthy Dexter Jackson for a full season?

Not to even mention the possible return of Pollack and Thurman.

We already had the personnel in place to make big improvements. The people are already in the building. If we had a team full of John Thorntons, Bryan Robinsons, and Brian Simmons who had already maxed out and nobody to replace them with, and we didn;t have any problems with injuries last year, I might be able to agree with you, but your analysis in this case is extremely simple-minded and short-sighted. You bring in a bunch of young, talented players, develop them over time and your defense improves as they improve and grow together in the defensive system.

And this post coming from the same guy that blamed the entire woes of the running game last year on Rudi alone....

[Kazkal]

I'd put money on it that will rank higher then 30

[cincy9275]

the db's are improve on paper i have seen nothing on the field yet. the dline no improvements there. lb's still a big? too many if's and could be's i want to see it on the field. then bresh is still in control of the defense he is a guys that is considered a clown by most of the former players and coaches around the league that are now analyst. i am more worried about our coaches on defense more than the players. will these coaches put these guys in a situation to be successful or will they have no clue like the past couple season's? only time will tell.

[membengal]

They will be. The defensive influx in the backfield will pay immediate dividends. The LBs will be better simply be being healthy, and I like the d-line.

[Bobcat Bengal]

It's definitely more physical.

[GregCook]

April is pretty early for this. At this time last year, we had Odell's suspension for the year yet to come. Pollack's injury yet to come. Tories slowing down yet to come. Sam Adams needing till November to play well.

Carson's incredible return. Wasn't he limping this time last year?

Too many unknowables out there to predict anything about the Bengals. But I did like their draft. In fact I like the offseason so far as they've banked a few draft picks for next year. Now if only they can avoid the injuries and the young studs develop........

[hrod382]

Dline - Should be right around what it was last year. I was fairly happy with it, the runs up the gut really got cut down last year it was just the stuff of the edge.

LB - Wildcard. Ahmad having one more year is a big improvement. Still questions to be answered with Odell/Hartwell, Landon will be the same and I'm unsure if Jeanty will start or not. Should be the same and could be greatly improved by Ahmad.

DB - Sucks losing KK but losing Tory James doesn't. Hall/Deltha/JJ is a great trio of CB's, Madieu I think will be better than last year and DJax the same. I really like Marvin White and I think he could contribute to a decent extent at the end of the year.

I think it's definitely no worse than last year. Geathers/Peko/Ahmad/Jeanty/JJ/Madieu can all improve over last year and I expect them do to so.

Regardless, Ahmad or Madieu need to emerge as playmakers.... Our defense needs an attitude and a playmaker, both of which we're currently lacking.

[derekshank]

April is pretty early for this. At this time last year, we had Odell's suspension for the year yet to come. Pollack's injury yet to come. Tories slowing down yet to come. Sam Adams needing till November to play well.

Carson's incredible return. Wasn't he limping this time last year?

Fair enough... but most of us knew that Tory was slowing down drastically and Odell's suspension was at least rumored. The point is, it's never too early to start talking about football. It's too early to really know what we've got... and on paper it looks like an improvement. You wouldn't disagree there would you?

[redsbengalsbucks]

This entire premise is stupid.

Thanks there JoePong. My bad for attempting to start a discussion about whether we are in a better situation than we were at this time last year. My apologies for wasting your time.

By the way, my entire premise was saying that the defense has improved... then you spent 4 paragraphs agreeing with me, but telling me I'm stupid. I'm not exactly sure how you did that... But you built straw men, made faulty assumptions about my opinion, and ultimately made yourself look less than bright.

All of that to say... we agree. I'm not sure why you're so angry in my direction.

JoePong must be a Democrat!

[HoosierCat]

Secondary and LB should be better. But the d-line could be worse: more mileage on antiques like Fat Sam and B-rob (and "classic" John Thornton). Myers is (yet) another bargain-basement stopgap. Frostee Duddrucker's still a mystery and Justin may not react well if he has to play under the tag. Peko and Geathers are still about it up front. Hopefully the Big Toe can step in sooner rather than later.

[GregCook]

[derekshank]

d-line could be worse: more mileage on antiques like Fat Sam and B-rob (and "classic" John Thornton). Myers is (yet) another bargain-basement stopgap. Frostee Duddrucker's still a mystery and Justin may not react well if he has to play under the tag. Peko and Geathers are still about it up front. Hopefully the Big Toe can step in sooner rather than later.

Well, I don't think Fat Sam can get a whole lot worse. He was only playing a few snaps a game. If he's still injured, it'll be about the same. If he's healthy, we get a whole lot better there. Myers/Thornton (if both are kept) should be able to produce together at least as much as last year. So honestly, I don't see any drop off from the DT position.

I don't see much change in Justin Smith's production either. He's in essence in a contract year again. He'll want to produce. The main question I have is about B-Rob. He wasn't great last year, and seems to have dropped off a little every year he's been in Cincy. That makes the questions surrounding Rucker more important. I'd like to hope he'll be a perfect B-Rob replacement, but you're right, it's a question mark there.

Basically, I agree and I don't. I agree there are some questions, but I don't think there are more questions than there were last year. The Bengals didn't give up a lot in the running game, and that was without fantastic production from anyone but Justin Smith (and Geathers if you're a big fan of sacks). So I don't see any reason to expect a step back... we've basically stayed even keel.

[Dadraftnick]

All games are won and lost on the O and D line.

Show me a good offense and Ill show you a good O-line show me a good D-line and ill show you a good deffense.

We win,despite girlcheck,on the O-line most of the time.

We loose on the D-line most of the time.

The Bengals lost their 2nd best D-lineman in free agency,Shuan Smith and picked up aging vet Michael Myers which is a slight downgrade for the line.

Back up S is upgraded,a better nickel back,overall the secondary is upgraded.

Most of the teams in the NFL just upgraded their team in the draft too.

What you have to ask yourself did we upgrade as much as the other teams in the division and I have to say no.

The Bengals will not make a significant change in deffense until they get better personel on the line.

[Pinkygen]

I think it's improved.

1. Secondary is obviously better, even with losing KK.

2. LB's have a lot of "hopefully", but it looks better. Nicholson will hopefully play a real snap. Brooks has had time to learn the system. I think Odell will be back, but he is the biggest iff, since he needs to get into shape and stay out of trouble. Don't know much about Hartwell, so cannot comment on him. It's not perfect, but better than last year.

3. Line - Least improvement, but does not seem any worse. We'll have a healthy Rucker, and Toon (or whatever his name is). Peko should be better with experience. Robinson will probably tail off more, and I don't trust Big Sam anymore. Around marginal improvement.

Overall, its better. It ain't the Ravens D, but I will be surprised, and pissed, if its 30th in the league again.

[Walrus]

I agree with most in that the D seems poised for modest improvement. However -- even though I am thrilled we picked up a safety in the 4th -- I don't think KK will be replaced so easily. Think about it for minute. Kaesviharn came up with some absolutely huge interceptions last year and was the only guy not named Robert Geathers or Justin Smith worth a damn when it came to getting to the QB. If White comes in and performs like KK did last year he could be in the conversation for D rookie of the year. Like him or not, KK won several games for us last year and that makes him tough to replace.

[Stripes]

The Bengals lost their 2nd best D-lineman in free agency,Shuan Smith and picked up aging vet Michael Myers which is a slight downgrade for the line.

[Kazkal]

The Bengals lost their 2nd best D-lineman in free agency,Shuan Smith and picked up aging vet Michael Myers which is a slight downgrade for the line.

I think it was a typo and he ment 8th best.