Serious Question Regarding the Defense and the Draft

[membengal]

Just throwing this out there, but is any one or two players taken in the first or second round on defense going to fix what has been ailing this team? Or is an improvement on D more likely to come from linebackers not getting hurt en masse and a maturation from a player like Joseph?

That is a roundabout way of asking whether it really would be as insane as most make it out to be if the Bengals should decide to go to a WR, say, in the 1st round. If the Bengals stick to the their BPA philosophy, and they have, say, Ted Ginn ranked as their best player available, I think they take him and still feel like the defense is due an improvement over 2006. Whether or not two rookies are added to the mix.

There. I said it.

[bengalsfan17]

I like the idea of having Ginn but if they do take him, they still need plenty of help on defense badly!

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Just throwing this out there, but is any one or two players taken in the first or second round on defense going to fix what has been ailing this team? Or is an improvement on D more likely to come from linebackers not getting hurt en masse and a maturation from a player like Joseph?

That is a roundabout way of asking whether it really would be as insane as most make it out to be if the Bengals should decide to go to a WR, say, in the 1st round. If the Bengals stick to the their BPA philosophy, and they have, say, Ted Ginn ranked as their best player available, I think they take him and still feel like the defense is due an improvement over 2006. Whether or not two rookies are added to the mix.

There. I said it.

1) If they have Ginn listed as BPA at 18 they need better scouts (we know they need more scouts).

2) BPA has its limits. Would we draft a QB if he's the BPA? Especially when Henry comes back, Ginn would be #4 on the depth chart, and would probably mean that Tab wouldn't dress. Any WR would have to be the BPA by a wide margin to justify it; and sitting at 18, nobody will be the BPA by that kind of a margin.

There are simply too many good defenders in this draft slated to go into the teens, they won't all get drafted by the time the Bengals roll around. I'm not saying reach for a round-2 CB at #18 if they all fly off the board, but at least get someone who will play defense. Don't take a guy who even if he's fantastic, he projects to #3 receiver.

Now if we were sitting a bit higher and Calvin Johnson dropped for some insane reason, forget what I just said. But Ginn isn't good enough to justify that - no matter what the Buckeye homers say.

[membengal]

Don't get side-tracked on Ginn. I tossed his name in there because ML mentioned it.

Assume ANY offensive type at #18. RB, TE, WR. Assume the Bengals take said player.

I am just stating, early on, I don't find that as insane as the general populace apparently does.

[derekshank]

I find it funny how many threads are devoted to the possibility of the Bengals selecting an offensive player of any kind in the 1st round. My oh my how the Brown family has brain-washed the common Cincy fan. Offense, offense, offense.

[membengal]

Well, derek, and again, just throwing this out there, but they've gone defense early in the first few rounds of the last few drafts. Again, not completely insane that they might go back to offense this time around. And, at WR, where I am VERY uncomfortable with what is there behind Housh and CJ (Tab Perry's status iffy with the injury recovery, Henry one misstep from Siberia, etc.), finding a third receiver and a possible top receiver down the road is NOT completely insane. In fact, in some ways, it may be a need...

Edited to add: the pick of Whitworth in the second round last year prompted much wailing and ghasing of teeth because it was for an offensive player at a position that was not thought to be a need, and looky what happened as the year unfolded...

And, derek, thanks a ton for lumping me in with the "common Cincy fan". Simply cruel.

What I don't like is a knee-jerk assumption. And the knee-jerk assumption is that Cincy MUST go defense. I am testing that assumption. I don't necessarily think they must. I think a case can be made, plausibly, that offense at #1 overall is the way to go, depending on how it all breaks in front of them on Saturday...

[HairOnFire]

It's funny, but when I read Marvin's remarks the thing that stood out the most is how confident they were that they could get a very good defensive player at #18. The comments about considering Ginn if he was available smacked of smoke and mirrors, but in truth the Bengals could draft an offensive player early and still end up with a mostly defensive draft. They could even draft offense and defense evenly and still do well....depending on which players were chosen.

Frankly, I'm not married to the idea of drafting any particular prospect....although it's fair to say that Revis and I are dating.

[agreen_112]

We take Ginn if he's there no matter what! We've needed a return man years ago. If Ginn's there, I don't think he will be, The Bengals would be stupid not to take him.

[membengal]

HoF, I have been dating Revis for some time. Get in line. But if he and Hall are gone, I do NOT want them to reach for a CB at #18 (or a LB for that matter). I think the draft is deep enough that they could, as you say, still have a "defensive draft" even if they zig when everyone thinks they should zag in round 1...

[bengalsfansince68]

For me, the only way that I would go offense is if a stud O-lineman fell to us. If Kalil was there at 18, I might plug him in.

Otherwise, give me a corner to pair with J Jo.

[bengalric]

I would love to take Hall or Reves if they are there but not sure if they will be.I like Ginn and if he is there it would be nice to have him to stretch the field. Just look if you have Ginn,T.J. Chad at receivers it sounds good.What do you think the chances we get a L.B. with the first pick?

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

For me, the only way that I would go offense is if a stud O-lineman fell to us. If Kalil was there at 18, I might plug him in.

Otherwise, give me a corner to pair with J Jo.

I'd consider Grubbs as that stud O-lineman. If he caught more out of the backfield you might twist my arm into looking at Lynch. Otherwise, there's too much good defense in this draft, and we need defense.

Worst case scenario is we nab Griffin and set him loose at S and special teams. His flexibility at both S positions would help with our lack of depth there, and allow Madieu to play some CB (and to prepare for the inevitable Dexter injury).

[bengalsfansince68]

I like CB/S or S/CB on day one.

Madieu is a safety, let's leave him where he belongs.

[Casey]

There will be impact players available on the defensive side at 18 and that is the direction they should go. If Hall and Revis are both gone, go LB or DL. No need to reach for a CB if the those two are gone.

I do not want to see Ginn or any offensive player taken here. And I would be willing to bet if Ginn wasn't an OSU guy, no one would even be talking about taking him.

[kentjett]

I've watched video of the three top CB's and I like Ross the best w/ Revis right behind him. Hall doesn't seem to be as athletic as the other two. Marvin always talks about getting players on the rise and not the ones that have leveled off. Ross is definately on the rise and Hall has leveled off w/ Revis in between. Ross only started 1 year and was named the best defensive back of the year. He has a lot of game speed, one hell of a hitter, good in coverage, and he is an outstanding return man. Ross or Revis, Hall is a bust waiting to happen.

[acjack3]

If Ginn is there at 18 trade down! There are many people who would trade us spots and give us possibly another first-day pick to get to him(Kansas City?) and we get to screw the titans.

[The PatternMaster]

I've watched video of the three top CB's and I like Ross the best w/ Revis right behind him. Hall doesn't seem to be as athletic as the other two. Marvin always talks about getting players on the rise and not the ones that have leveled off. Ross is definately on the rise and Hall has leveled off w/ Revis in between. Ross only started 1 year and was named the best defensive back of the year. He has a lot of game speed, one hell of a hitter, good in coverage, and he is an outstanding return man. Ross or Revis, Hall is a bust waiting to happen.

I second that emotion, I've been pimping Mr. Ross since Jan. He's only getting better the more he plays and he's the best man/press corner in the game.

Btw, I'm feelin that avatar.

[DesperateDerelict]

For me, the only way that I would go offense is if a stud O-lineman fell to us. If Kalil was there at 18, I might plug him in.

Otherwise, give me a corner to pair with J Jo.

Kalil will be there at 18 . . . and probably 28. This is a draft with alot of very good players, but very few exceptional players. Most of the top players, with the exception of CJ21, are flawed in some way => Get past AP, Thomas, Quinn, Russell, Okoye, & Landry, there isn't a big difference between #10 and #24.

I want Mikey & Marvin to trade down => 2 or 3 times if necessary. If they've done their homework (In Marvin we Trust), I'm confidant we can land excellent DB's and very good DLs and LBs => converting picks 18 and 49 to picks 25, 62, 63, and 93 (or something similar) would go a long way to fixing the "D" and improving our depth. The key is finding some dance partners, displaying alot of patience, and getting lucky (having a perceived stud available on our designated picks).

Good luck this weekend, guys !!!

[HoosierCat]

Just throwing this out there, but is any one or two players taken in the first or second round on defense going to fix what has been ailing this team? Or is an improvement on D more likely to come from linebackers not getting hurt en masse and a maturation from a player like Joseph?

That is a roundabout way of asking whether it really would be as insane as most make it out to be if the Bengals should decide to go to a WR, say, in the 1st round. If the Bengals stick to the their BPA philosophy, and they have, say, Ted Ginn ranked as their best player available, I think they take him and still feel like the defense is due an improvement over 2006. Whether or not two rookies are added to the mix.

There. I said it.

The best place I see a defensive pick having an immediate impact would be a pass-rushing DE or DT (of course, DE would then beg the question of what to do with Justin). But other popular options raise issues. A WLB like Timmons, for instance, either takes Landon, our most experienced LB off the field, or is just used in spot duty. Ditto a FS like Nelson. And while a Revis could conceivable come to earn the starting role by opening day if Deltha doesn't shake his funk, that gives us a pair of starting corners with a combined 1 year of experience, not exactly a reassuring thought.

OTOH, I think you can argue that a Greg Olsen or Dwayne Jarret or Rbert Meacham or Ted Ginn can much more readily step in and make an impact without displacing someone, Olsen becaue we've nothing behind Kelly at TE and and of the WRs because of Henry's suspension.

All that said, drafting for immediate impact is usually a poor strategy.

[Stripes]

I don't care about immediate impact very much. I want the Bengals to draft a defensive player whom will make major contributions eventually, be it sooner or later. That can be accomplished at any defensive position.

Screw offense.

[Whur CHad At?]

I think we should draft all offense this draft...we already found our savior for our defense in Michael Meyers and apparntly we have no holes on D so why not!!!!!!!!!

[alleycat]

Did you actually go crazy, Whur, or are you just taking sarcasm to another level?

[Whur CHad At?]

prob crazy...it is finals week here I havent slept in 2 days and i have this bottle of jim bean i am polishing off right now by myself so prob a tad crazy

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

prob crazy...it is finals week here I havent slept in 2 days and i have this bottle of jim bean i am polishing off right now by myself so prob a tad crazy

You need to mix in some serious partying during finals week. Get too stressed about that crap you won't do worth a damn anyway.

When I was in college, finals was time for the best parties of the year. Now you've got a good start with the Beam, but I sense that's contributing to the bitter anger, particularly with the lack of people. Bourbon does that.

Now get out there and hit some damn parties. Go nuts. Find some chicks. Switch to tequila. And by the time you sober up, the Bengals will have 4 shiny new players on D.

[membengal]

Just throwing this out there, but is any one or two players taken in the first or second round on defense going to fix what has been ailing this team? Or is an improvement on D more likely to come from linebackers not getting hurt en masse and a maturation from a player like Joseph?

That is a roundabout way of asking whether it really would be as insane as most make it out to be if the Bengals should decide to go to a WR, say, in the 1st round. If the Bengals stick to the their BPA philosophy, and they have, say, Ted Ginn ranked as their best player available, I think they take him and still feel like the defense is due an improvement over 2006. Whether or not two rookies are added to the mix.

There. I said it.

The best place I see a defensive pick having an immediate impact would be a pass-rushing DE or DT (of course, DE would then beg the question of what to do with Justin). But other popular options raise issues. A WLB like Timmons, for instance, either takes Landon, our most experienced LB off the field, or is just used in spot duty. Ditto a FS like Nelson. And while a Revis could conceivable come to earn the starting role by opening day if Deltha doesn't shake his funk, that gives us a pair of starting corners with a combined 1 year of experience, not exactly a reassuring thought.

OTOH, I think you can argue that a Greg Olsen or Dwayne Jarret or Rbert Meacham or Ted Ginn can much more readily step in and make an impact without displacing someone, Olsen becaue we've nothing behind Kelly at TE and and of the WRs because of Henry's suspension.

All that said, drafting for immediate impact is usually a poor strategy.

Thanks for the response, hoosier. Nice to cut through the chaff...

And, tdb, I hear you.

But, the Bengals HAVE loaded up on defense in the last four drafts, so those drafts should be coming to fruition this year, right? That's kind of my point from the original post.

I guess I am thinking that, say, a WR in round 1 IS defensible from both an immediate AND long-term impact standpoint. CJ and Housh are not getting any younger. Their peak years are probably capped at the next two to maybe three seasons. Getting someone in now to complement and eventually take over for them is a need.

As for past drafts, off the top of my head, the following players should pay off this year (if they ever will) on the whole early picks for future thing: Landon Johnson, Caleb Miller, Jonathan Joseph, Frostee Rucker, Damato Peko, Madieu Williams, (Odell Thurman? David Pollack?), Ahmad Brooks. Point is, they HAVE done that. Doing it one more year certainly won't make me grumpy, TDB, but it does beg my question...if they have gone so hard defensively like they have over the last four years, at some point you have to infuse back into the offense as well for it to work.

My hunch is they will indeed go defense tomorrow. In the first round. Which is fine. I won't be upset when they do, but IF they were to go offense in the first round, as long as it isn't a quarterback, I wouldn't think it that crazy. And I would certainly expect to be meeting every single WORST DECISION EVER thread with these same points.