Chick Ludwig says trading Smith might be Bengals' best option

[BengalszoneBilly]

Trading veteran Smith might be Bengals' best option

By Chick Ludwig

Dayton Daily News

Monday, April 16, 2007

CINCINNATI — Here's something the Cincinnati Bengals should consider to get more picks in the April 28-29 NFL draft: Trade franchise-tagged defensive end Justin Smith.

Unable to work out a long-term deal with Smith — which would get his $8.6 million cap figure down — the Bengals should give him permission to seek a trade with a club willing to deal first- and third-round picks.

It happened in 1998 when the Bengals worked a sign-and-trade with Washington for Dan "Big Daddy" Wilkinson. It can happen again.

Smith's an outstanding player who gives great effort. But his sacks production — 41.5 in 95 games over six seasons — doesn't match his sky-high salary.

Right now, the Bengals have only two first-day picks in the first (No. 18) and second (No. 49) rounds. They don't have a third-rounder, having spent it on linebacker Ahmad Brooks in the 2006 Supplemental Draft. They don't pick again until Round 4 (No. 114).

Trading Smith would give the Bengals four first-day picks, including two first-rounders. That would enable them to address needs on both sides of the ball.

Think 'Ginn'

Chris Henry's eight-game suspension for violating the NFL's personal conduct policy changes everything. Don't be surprised if the Bengals draft wide receiver Ted Ginn Jr. if he's available at No. 18.

Head coach Marvin Lewis has said it numerous times: If you draft for need and don't take the best player available, you'll get burned.

Case in point: The 1988 draft. The Bengals had fine receivers in Eddie Brown and Tim McGee. They needed a defensive back. So they picked Rickey Dixon No. 5 overall. The next two picks were wideouts Tim Brown (Raiders) and Sterling Sharpe (Packers). Case closed.

Sure, the Bengals need defense, but there's no way they can pass on a touchdown maker such as Ginn.

Andrews update

Restricted free-agent Stacy Andrews, fresh off a visit with the New York Jets, is drawing interest from numerous clubs.

If he signs an offer sheet, the Bengals will likely match it.

Andrews is the Bengals' top backup guard/tackle. They have too much invested to let him get away.

Quick hitters

• Quarterback Anthony Wright (Carson Palmer's top backup in 2006) signed with the New York Giants. To fill the void, the Bengals are targeting Tim Rattay, an eight-year veteran who was traded from San Francisco to Tampa Bay in October 2005.

• The NFL Network has reported that Bengals free-agent cornerback Tory James will sign with either the Saints, Patriots, Raiders or Packers.

• Five of the Bengals' first six games are against 2006 playoff teams (Baltimore, Seattle, New England, Kansas City and the New York Jets).

[Kazkal]

I'll take Justin smith and a 7th round WR over ginn .

[Stripes]

Buckeye homerism from a "respected" media outlet. Good grief.

[turnip]

Buckeye homerism from a "respected" media outlet. Good grief.

My thoughts exactly...so blatant too. If Ginn were considered to be Tim Brown or Sterling Sharpe for sure, he would not be there at 18.

[Kazkal]

Plus we can look at more then 1 postion.

I highly doubt Ginn is the BPA by far making him a no brain pick,Hell if were going offense this early I'd rather see Ryan Khalil just because you know he's money.

[derekshank]

More unwarranted Smith bashing.... *sigh*

Quick question there smarty pants columnist: If Smith isn't worth the franchise tag, what makes you think a team is going to give him the long-term money he wants AND give up a 1st and 3rd round pick?

You can't have it both ways. He's either a good player, or else you won't get much for him in a trade.

The team clearly needs to continue attempting to sign him long-term and free up some of the salary cap... but I'm content to wait until mid-season, giving us room to start re-signing our own before free agency begins... again.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

More unwarranted Smith bashing.... *sigh*

Quick question there smarty pants columnist: If Smith isn't worth the franchise tag, what makes you think a team is going to give him the long-term money he wants AND give up a 1st and 3rd round pick?

You can't have it both ways. He's either a good player, or else you won't get much for him in a trade.

The team clearly needs to continue attempting to sign him long-term and free up some of the salary cap... but I'm content to wait until mid-season, giving us room to start re-signing our own before free agency begins... again.

I'm sorry, you just displayed critical reasoning skills. This makes you overqualified to be a journalist.

Seriously, what team gives a first, third and a long-term deal better than the franchise tag to a guy that a bottom-5 defense doesn't want anymore?

[Section 310]

I think Justin Smith could be a Pro Bowl type player in the right system. Imagine him in a Dungy defense where all he concerned about is rushing the QB on each and every snap. I personally believe that if you put Dwight Freeney in the Bengals system he would have about the same production as Smith.

That said, it would be very difficult for the Bengals to pass up a 3rd and 1st rounder for Smith. They can find an adequate replacement in the draft and grab another playmaker. A top tier corner and safety (Hall & Nelson) along with another OLB in Round 2 would make this defense better in a hurry. Smith is an expensive luxury for this team.

[HoosierCat]

The team clearly needs to continue attempting to sign him long-term and free up some of the salary cap... but I'm content to wait until mid-season, giving us room to start re-signing our own before free agency begins... again.

From a cap perspective, moving Justin is attractive. A long-term deal won't free up enough space to be very useful, and would keep the team in the "no cap space" box it was in this year. But deal Justin and you free up $8M+ this year, plenty to lock down guys like Larson, Madieu and Landon, if not more. And next year, even after those deals get taken into account and the numbers get Hobsonized to remove the rookie pool and injury reserve, the Bengals would still have something in the neighborhood of $7m in space to go chase a top-tier FA.

Of course, the downside is that to do this you have to let a guy who's been solid, if not spectacular, go -- at a time when he has an easy five years of productive play left in him. And you're right that his value would be depressed from the bengals' point of view. I think the most likely scenario (and I think it was schweinart who mentioned this down on the draft board) would be to use him to trade up on draft day -- say to the rams so we could snag Okoye -- and maybe there would be a conditional pick in 2008 involved.

[James_Brooks21]

Buckeye homerism from a "respected" media outlet. Good grief.

Come on Chuck your better then that, Ted Ginn give me a break. Ginn has the speed that Henry has but does not have the size at all, just my opinion but I don't see Ginn being a true number 1 receiver in the NFL. I know on our team he would not be expected to be a number 1, but you don't draft guys in the first round to be your number 3 receiver. I would love to have him for his special team ability but then again there is too much talent to pass up on the defense side of the ball to draft him. Honestly, no knock on Justin but I would take a second and third round pick or even a second and fourth for him. You are not about to get a first round pick for him. Mel Kiper has us taken Jamaal Anderson (DE Arkansas), I would like to question him on that because that must mean that he projects us to trade Justin Smith.

[princeton]

I disagree with Ludwig completely.

first, while I'm sure that the Bengals would deal Smith, he doesn't have a market. it's a great draft for DE's, and Smith is very pricy. As such, he would appear to have very limited trade value.

I also can't imagine that the Bengals will match an offer sheet to Andrews. The second round compensation pick is much more valuable to them given their needs on defense.

[GapControl]

Wow, i just lost whatever respect I had for Chuck Ludwig. Now I know why Marvin refuses to answer his questions. No one is going to give a 1st and 3rd plus take on Smith`s salary. And given the state of our defense, why in the hell would we draft Ted Ginn if some team did pull the trigger on such a trade? This Ted Ginn talk reminds me of Desmond Howard a few years back... but Desmond had a lot more to back up his hype... by the way, where is Desmond Howard nowadays?

[schweinhart]

If they deal Smith, the best offer they're likely to get is the Bucs 1st pick in the 2nd unless they can swing the 3-team deal the Jets did last year with their former franchise DE John Abraham and get either 24 or 28 from the Pats.

Other than that, the option to trade up in the 1st is there but it's hard to believe teams the Skins, Vikes or Falcons would swap out of there Top 10 picks to get Smith. More likely all they could get in a swap is the Rams #13.

I'm against trading Smith at this point. The defense is in deep enough already and it doesn;t need to be made worse by trading a great run defending DE like Smith away for a prospect or 2. Hopefully, he'll play for the 1-year deal if they don't extend him.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Buckeye homerism from a "respected" media outlet. Good grief.

I know on our team he would not be expected to be a number 1, but you don't draft guys in the first round to be your number 3 receiver.

Normally, no, but this is a team that used its number 1 pick to draft a backup RB, so who knows?

I agree with you though, and have already promised to kill (or at least moon) Mike Brown if they draft a WR round 1.

[chrishcovga]

I'm going to agree with Ludwig. , Yeah, I said, it I agree with Ludwig on trading Smith away. I'm not with drafting Tedd Ginn.

- First of all Ludwig should be ashamed of himself comparing the '88 draft and the selection of Rickey Dixon, and passing on Tim Brown to this year's draft and thinking that Ginn could even hintly turn out to be another Tim Brown.

- I don't even think Ginn has the potential to be a Steve Smith.

-- But I do think trading away Justin Smith is a good idea. He's not stout against the run, doesn't have a variety of pass rush moves, doesn't dominate when he should against backup tackles, etc. etc.. But franchising him was the move of a team that doesn't operate with a General Manager.

- Bash me all you want, but the team needs someone ( NOT RELATED ) to them handling the future of this team. We spent decades in mediacrity, with coaches, personell, both front office and field related that had ties to the " good old days " of football and Paul Brown, but the the recipe didn't work.

- We have never had the type of consistent success in the history of this franchise until the Bengals brought in someone else to run the team that didn't think like a " Brown". - Why not do the same with the front office. Sure Katie and Hubby have done " ok " , but the reality is we can't bring in top free agents, we don't make sensible draft moves, when we finally have a coaching staff that scouts well.

- Justin Smith is not a franchise player! He never was, and he never will be. He's a good football player, He's a solid citizen and those things are important, but trade him away, and build for the Future. Smith isn't even a good enough " now " player to keep on the team. - You know that because a 3rd year backup player in a limited role can come off the Bench and almost double your sack output. And Robert Geathers produced all season. Smith had his 7 sacks in 4 games. That's not the production of a " Franchise " player.

- Real Trade possibilities..

Falcons, - They need a defensive end after losing Patrick Kerney. Plus Smith is very similiar to Kerney all except for the fact that Kerney is a " pro Bowler " has had numerous seasons with Double digit sacks etc. etc.

The Falcons have multiple picks in the second round and later. I personally would love to get #'s 39 and #'s 44. for Smith. At least # 39 and # 75 with a pick coming next year.

The Colts traded away Marshall Faulk for 2nd and 5th round picks in the '99 draft. And he was a 2 time pro bowler.

- Just because he's franchised doesn't mean we have to take 1st and 3rd, or 2 firsts, unless you find someone dumb enough to trade that for Smith..

[GregCook]

I don't think Justin has signed the tender has he? So a new contract with some other team for draft picks is doable at far below 8 mill/season cap hit but above that amount with bonuses and salary. The man knows how to keep his options open.

Problem is, who will play DE if he goes? BRob? Frostee? Fanane? Rookie?

Given that they have more holes than draft picks, Justin is clearly the Bengals best asset for getting extra day 1 picks. A Smith trade could fill all but one of the Day 1 needs. Maybe they cheat on WR and go with what they've got. DT & CB are desperate situations due to age and character concerns. The other 3 spots can only be upgraded from Day 1 talent.

Day 1 needs:

DT

CB

WR

LB

DE regardless of Smith

Day 2 needs

RB

QB

FS/SS

ST

[bengal4life]

I posted a topic on Smith going to St. Louis, about a month ago, for a 1st and 3rd round pick and no one had heard of it. Now that Chuck ( I mean Chick, lol) has said something about this, I think the options of Smith getting tradded are definetly possible.

I woulnd't take anything less than a 1st and a 3rd for him though.

[derekshank]

Assuming the Bengals could actually get a 1st and a 3rd for Smith, the Bengals would almost certainly need to consider it. I'm a big Justin Smith fan, and think he is incredibly underappreciated for his service... but two first day draft picks would be hard to pass up.

Justin has several years of very good production left in him, but his replacement could easily be Jamaal Anderson (almost exactly the same type of player as Smith and would be much cheaper as a draft pick than the franchise tag). In addition, the Bengals would have a 3rd round pick in a draft that is filled to the brim with 2nd round talent. In other words, they would get a 1st round replacement for Smith, and a potential 2nd round talent guy in the 3rd round - not to mention money saved to extend current talent.

Trades like this are how you rebuild a defense... I just don't see any team biting, and I wouldn't be in favor of giving Smith up for a whole lot less. In other words... Ludwig is dreaming.

[HairOnFire]

Assuming the Bengals could actually get a 1st and a 3rd for Smith, the Bengals would almost certainly need to consider it. I'm a big Justin Smith fan, and think he is incredibly underappreciated for his service... but two first day draft picks would be hard to pass up.

Agreed. The list of Bengal players I wouldn't consider trading is pretty short and even though I've defended him relentlessly Justin Smith's name isn't on it. So if the trade return is adequate I'd consider almost any deal.

Beyond that I doubt the trade proposal has anything but Ludwig's imagination behind it.

[Kirkendall]

Buckeye homerism from a "respected" media outlet. Good grief.

DDN is hardly "respected".

More unwarranted Smith bashing.... *sigh*

Quick question there smarty pants columnist: If Smith isn't worth the franchise tag, what makes you think a team is going to give him the long-term money he wants AND give up a 1st and 3rd round pick?

You can't have it both ways. He's either a good player, or else you won't get much for him in a trade.

The team clearly needs to continue attempting to sign him long-term and free up some of the salary cap... but I'm content to wait until mid-season, giving us room to start re-signing our own before free agency begins... again.

I disagree, I think Ludwig's argument has weight. I also think the "head scratching" that came along with the actual franchising has weight -- as does the team unsure of the DE market therefore franchising him to cover their basis.

If there's a trade on the table, which there isn't because we're reading off-season mind-wondering fodder, then I do think there should be consideration. Especially if we can pick up another first day (not round, that's not realistic) selection.

[Kazkal]

Being one of justins biggest pimps,it would be hard to say no too a 1st and 3rd.but 3rd or a 4th I'd have to pass

[Stripes]

I don't think anyone in their right minds would refuse a 1st/3rd round pick deal for Justin Smith.

The point is that it'd never happen.

Ginn's inclusion in the article is just stupid.

[HoTbOy]

I don't think that the Bengals would get a 1st and 3rd for JSmith either...If someone offered it, I would jump all over that...I was hoping for some kind of sign and trade deal with the Bears for LB LBriggs...As for the TGinn pick at 18, I hope not, we need D...

[Kazkal]

Hey if Jamarcus Russel or Brady Quinn fall to us do we draft them just because they are the BPA?

[jjakq27]

No I think I've heard Marvin say that it is all weighted, etc. That the draft board is basically set before draft day so there are no David Klingler-instead-of-Troy Vincent-debacles anymore. I am not sure what happens when a guy does drop that they didn't expect to be there or if they have enough of that position already.