Marvin says we will have a better defense in '07...

[agreen_112]

1 question: HOW?

I hope that the return of Pollack and Odell is what he's hinting at, which makes our rediculous LB core of last season look like HS kids.

What's the latest on Pollack btw?

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

1 question: HOW?

I hope that the return of Pollack and Odell is what he's hinting at, which makes our rediculous LB core of last season look like HS kids.

What's the latest on Pollack btw?

I wouldn't read too much into it. Typical Marvin. Although it's a fairly safe bet, as it's kind of hard to imagine that defense getting worse.

[GregCook]

He's simply doing club PR to keep the season ticket holders revved up. But I also think he's looking at major contributions from Rucker, JJ, Kilmer, Peko, Brooks, Henderson, Jenty, ie all the second year guys and whatever the draft brings us. If the club gets lucky and has a good year injury wise, I don't see why the defense can't become a good one. They have the talent but also serious bad luck.

1 question: HOW?

I hope that the return of Pollack and Odell is what he's hinting at, which makes our rediculous LB core of last season look like HS kids.

What's the latest on Pollack btw?

I wouldn't read too much into it. Typical Marvin. Although it's a fairly safe bet, as it's kind of hard to imagine that defense getting worse.

[Whur CHad At?]

LOL, how would we have a better defense. We havent made any improvements and have lost viable players. Unless he secrectly traded for Brian Urlacher behind close doors, I dont know how this defense will be better

[rbsohio30]

1 question: HOW?

I hope that the return of Pollack and Odell is what he's hinting at, which makes our rediculous LB core of last season look like HS kids.

What's the latest on Pollack btw?

check his web site out, under the news section from the way I read it he will not be back this year.

http://www.davidpollack.com

[HoosierCat]

LOL, how would we have a better defense. We havent made any improvements and have lost viable players. Unless he secrectly traded for Brian Urlacher behind close doors, I dont know how this defense will be better

Yeah, it's tough to see any big improvement at this point. The D stank last season -- but it's hard to argue that guys like K2 and Simmons and Shaun Smith were responsible. You can make an "addition by subtraction" case for Tory James, but even then his opposite number, Deltha, played just as poorly (if not worse).

My bet is that they'll get a bit better (if only because they can't get much worse) but what we gain in youth will be offset by the loss of experience. If guys like Rucker, Nicholson, Henderson, Joseph, and whoever our first two picks are live up to expectations, then I can see some sizeable improvments in '08 or '09.

[HairOnFire]

LOL, how would we have a better defense. We havent made any improvements and have lost viable players.

Last time I checked the NFL doesn't play any football games in March.

The draft is still more than a month away and I'm guessing it'll bring at least two defenders who'll contribute immediately, if not start. Joining them in the starting lineup will be last years supplemental pick, Ahmad Brooks. Brooks got a season of valuable experience last season and should be dramatically improved. There's also a good possibility that several players from last years draft, Rucker and Nicholson, will see their first action as role players, and Peko and JJ should have their roles greatly expanded. Rashad Jeanty has more experience and should improve now that he has a more defined role going into his 2nd season.

Plus, there's addition by subtraction. It's painfully obvious now that Tory James should have been replaced prior to last season, and that might have been true of Brian Simmons as well. In fact, I'm betting the loss of Kevin Kaesviharn stings more than the loss of Simmons.

Finally, I think too many of us have downplayed what the loss of the Joker OLB meant to the Bengas last season. IMHO the pass rush suffered dramatically, and the Bengals weren't able to find a suitable replacement for the injured David Pollack during the season. They can now plan for that loss from the very beginning either by drafting a replacement or further developing a role player already on the roster.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Boy Marv's really going out on a limb there folks - predicting better than ranking near last in the league again.

You go Marv, you go man. Set those standards high.

[HairOnFire]

Boy Marv's really going out on a limb there folks - predicting better than ranking near last in the league again.

You go Marv, you go man. Set those standards high.

And I guess you can keep giving him a failing grade before the results are known.

[BengalByTheBay]

Boy Marv's really going out on a limb there folks - predicting better than ranking near last in the league again.

You go Marv, you go man. Set those standards high.

Funny thing is, Lewis' statements cited on the team site today sound like they're coming straight out of your mouth "8 and 8 isn't good enough", etc. As you have lamented many times in the past, Lewis' statements to the press are complete BS. Nobody should get too excited about anything he says openly, positive or negative.

[bengal4life]

I think Shula was being sarcastic. If not then he's getting way to excited.

[HairOnFire]

I think Shula was being sarcastic. If not then he's getting way to excited.

It's far more likely that he's just an idiot.

For example, he claims the Bengals defense was ranked next to dead last but that was only in one category. Their rush defense wasn't bad at all, and they ranked somewhere in the middle of the pack in scoring defense. (17th?) In fact, I think the Bengals scoring defense has improved every season since Marvin took over.

[ArmyBengal]

Well, if can get worse than last year, I'm glad I won't be able to watch the games this year !!! Seriously, our defense sucks and until they produce on the field, it's all speculation. We've heard before how the defense should improve and what happens ??? We end up having to embrace the SUCK yet again !!! I'm hoping for the best, because I still feel that a middle of the road defense takes us to the superbowl...

WHODEY !!!

[BengalByTheBay]

I think Shula was being sarcastic. If not then he's getting way to excited.

Of course he's being sarcastic -- it's straight out of the "MIW" handbook. I guess my point was only that looking for substance out of Lewis press statements is a fool's errand. When he says something optimistic, it's usually not really based on anything and when he says something pessimistic it's the same. On consecutive days we have "our defense will be better next year" and "I predict we're last in the division." What do I make of that? (...a hat, a broach) I make that he's playing around with Hobson and anybody else who will listen. It's the owners' meetings, they aren't practicing or doing anything other than preparing for the draft. And we all know how much "real" information ML provides prior to the draft.

[fattyjay]

I think Shula was being sarcastic. If not then he's getting way to excited.

To me that's how Shula sounds every time, sarcastic or not. By the way bengal4life you might want to change the guys in your sig, none of them will play this year.

[jditty47]

i agree with marvin. first off, joseph is starting in the place of james. that gives us speed from the get go and an upgrade there. we also will be a year older which will help our linebacking crew. and lastly there are no changes on our defense other than joseph. we will be much healthier, the one to note is adams.

[Whur CHad At?]

Yeah we will improve from 28th to 27th. You all expect rookies to change our defensive idenity? Yeah,right

[jditty47]

Yeah we will improve from 28th to 27th. You all expect rookies to change our defensive idenity? Yeah,right

um if my memory from kindergarten serves me right...27 is better than 28 right?

[Stripes]

How quickly people forget the injuries of 2006. Apparently youth is irrelevant too. Hair already mentioned all the defensive changes/improvements I had in mind, so I won't bother to re-hash them.

[HairOnFire]

How quickly people forget the injuries of 2006. Apparently youth is irrelevant too. Hair already mentioned all the defensive changes/improvements I had in mind, so I won't bother to re-hash them.

EndTheDrought mentioned the injuries and the improvement that could result just from better heatlth. Frankly, for anyone paying close attention there are plenty of reasons to believe the defense will improve this season, and most don't involve luck....though it's always welcome.

For other fans, the crippling loss of Brian Simmons and K2 is apparently too much for any team to overcome.

[HoosierCat]

How quickly people forget the injuries of 2006. Apparently youth is irrelevant too. Hair already mentioned all the defensive changes/improvements I had in mind, so I won't bother to re-hash them.

EndTheDrought mentioned the injuries and the improvement that could result just from better heatlth. Frankly, for anyone paying close attention there are plenty of reasons to believe the defense will improve this season, and most don't involve luck....though it's always welcome.

For other fans, the crippling loss of Brian Simmons and K2 is apparently too much for any team to overcome.

The Bengals will roll out a defense featuring what, 9 of the starters from last season's awesome 30th-ranked squad, with less depth and the usual infusion of youth (annually predicted to be the driver of an improvement that never happens). Same script, different year.

[mjm47]

While I don't think that any of us are completely satisfied with the defense, constantly referring to them as the "30th ranked" whatever is disengenuous.

Ranks:

25 on Football Outsiders total DVOA

30th in yards/game

17th points/game

Not to overly simplistic, but aren't points more important than yards at the end of the day? I'm not saying that the defense is set, good, adequate or anything else. However, selective quotation of one among a number of statistics simply makes it harder for people to get a full understanding of the issues.

[HairOnFire]

The Bengals will roll out a defense featuring what, 9 of the starters from last season's awesome 30th-ranked squad, with less depth and the usual infusion of youth (annually predicted to be the driver of an improvement that never happens). Same script, different year.

Replacing two starters isn't insignificant change on any defense, and lets be honest...you have no idea if there won't be more.

Tory James and Brian Simmons are both out, right?

And you portrayed Kevin Kaesviharn as a starter whenever it suited you, although I'm betting you won't consider him one in this thread.

You've also insisted that Robert Geathers never started a single game last season, but that seems likely to change.

And at DT Domata Peko seems close to claiming a starters job, if he hasn't already.

What am I up to, four or five?

Finally, why would you claim that the defense will be infused with less youth than normal? Everything points to them commiting themselves to younger players everywhere...which you've complained about loudly. So now you're going to complain that they don't have any young players? (Damned if they do. Damned if they don't.)

[HairOnFire]

While I don't think that any of us are completely satisfied with the defense, constantly referring to them as the "30th ranked" whatever is disengenuous.

Ranks:

25 on Football Outsiders total DVOA

30th in yards/game

17th points/game

Not to overly simplistic, but aren't points more important than yards at the end of the day? I'm not saying that the defense is set, good, adequate or anything else. However, selective quotation of one among a number of statistics simply makes it harder for people to get a full understanding of the issues.

Dead freaking on.

I mentioned the Bengals being 17th ranked in scoring defense in an earlier post, but I didn't bother looking up the rankings just to confirm something I already knew. That said, thanks for the legwork.

As for why posters use statistics selectively? I'd say it's done deliberately to distort the truth in an effort to support an pre-determined opinion. Why anyone would be compelled to do that is beyond me, but those who repeatedly insist upon calling the Bengals defense a "next to last ranked unit" should be able to explain their motives if we ask them nicely.

Steakhouse and Hoosier, you've got some explaining to do.

[HoosierCat]

Replacing two starters isn't insignificant change on any defense, and lets be honest...you have no idea if there won't be more.

Oh, no doubt, there may very well be more. And yes, in this case the Bengals are damned if they do and damned if they don't. The existing guys haven't gotten the job done, and what the new kids bring in athleticism they give up in saavy and experience. Which is why I expect this D to take a step back this season. If all, or even most, of the youngsters work out, they'll be poised for big defensive improvments in '08. But I look for them to struggle in '07, especially early on.

Not to overly simplistic, but aren't points more important than yards at the end of the day?

Not in the case of this particular Bengals defense. It's precisely yards allowed that were this team's problem last season. They couldnt get off the field. Opposing offenses routinely controlled the clock with long drives, minimizing the number of posessions by the Bengals offense. Not allowing a lot of points is only helpful if your offense actually gets a chance to score a few of its own.