Sign. Ken. Hamlin. Now.

[fattyjay]

5 of those are still with the team, and are role players.

Well, that's my point. A few more role players aren't going to cut it. In order to fill in all our needs we'll need to find either starters or solid No. 2s all the way through round seven. That's asking a lot.

Agreed, that is asking a lot. I'm hoping that all of this quiet confidence that the Bengals staff seems to be showing has purpose. Maybe they have a draft day trade lined up. Maybe they know more about the Odell/Pollack situation than they are letting on. I don't know, but they had better have something up their collective sleeve because this defense needs some life support.

[HoosierCat]

Maybe they know more about the Odell/Pollack situation than they are letting on.

Well, I'm sure they do. And yeah, I get the definite impression they are counting on at least one of them to be back. That would certainly help. (Odell more so than Pollack IMHO.)

[princeton]

Maybe they know more about the Odell/Pollack situation than they are letting on.

Well, I'm sure they do. And yeah, I get the definite impression they are counting on at least one of them to be back. That would certainly help. (Odell more so than Pollack IMHO.)

counting on Odell is like counting on Stanley Wilson. But WTH, it's Cincinnati. While they're at it, tell the Reds to show solidarity by opening up a spot for Josh Hamilton. Trade that Dunn guy.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Maybe they know more about the Odell/Pollack situation than they are letting on.

Well, I'm sure they do. And yeah, I get the definite impression they are counting on at least one of them to be back. That would certainly help. (Odell more so than Pollack IMHO.)

That's great. Please tell me we're not counting on a cripple and a guy who's done more cocaine in the last year than Darryl Strawberry did in 1986.

[bengal4life]

I was just wondering where the source is that said Odell did cocaine? I know there has been rumors about it but I didn't know that it was true. I thought the suspension came from alcohol abuse.

[HoosierCat]

Maybe they know more about the Odell/Pollack situation than they are letting on.

Well, I'm sure they do. And yeah, I get the definite impression they are counting on at least one of them to be back. That would certainly help. (Odell more so than Pollack IMHO.)

That's great. Please tell me we're not counting on a cripple and a guy who's done more cocaine in the last year than Darryl Strawberry did in 1986.

I dunno about the whole cocaine thing, but between their inactivity at LB in FA (aside from letting Simmons and Wilkins go, that is) and the decision to tag Justin (at DE where we have depth, versus letting him walk and using the $$$ to chase an LB, where we don't), I have to think they are figuring on one of them returning. If I had to bet it would be Pollack. By all accounts he is bound and determined to play again. As for Odell, who knows? What shape is he in? Where's his head at? Does he even get reinstated? I suppose we'll start getting answers come July.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Maybe they know more about the Odell/Pollack situation than they are letting on.

Well, I'm sure they do. And yeah, I get the definite impression they are counting on at least one of them to be back. That would certainly help. (Odell more so than Pollack IMHO.)

That's great. Please tell me we're not counting on a cripple and a guy who's done more cocaine in the last year than Darryl Strawberry did in 1986.

I dunno about the whole cocaine thing, but between their inactivity at LB in FA (aside from letting Simmons and Wilkins go, that is) and the decision to tag Justin (at DE where we have depth, versus letting him walk and using the $$$ to chase an LB, where we don't), I have to think they are figuring on one of them returning. If I had to bet it would be Pollack. By all accounts he is bound and determined to play again. As for Odell, who knows? What shape is he in? Where's his head at? Does he even get reinstated? I suppose we'll start getting answers come July.

If I had to critique your analysis, it's that you haven't considered the null hypothesis that there's no coherent plan at all.

The Bengals general plan is 'sign your own'. That's a good goal for the most part. Justin's a Bengal, so they signed him. Same for Bobbie, Willie, etc. They stopped signing when the money ran out, so Steinbach walked. To their credit, they did cut the walking dead (Simmons, Tory). However, the fact that the offseason to date leaves us about 3 starting linebackers short may not have actually become a problem in their eyes.

At this point, I don't care what they're hearing from Pollack's doctors, counting on him to play and contribute at this point, if that's what they're doing, is insane. Right now, anything could happen. So either Mikey's stupid because he's left us with no real LBs (except maybe Jeanty) and no money to get any, or he's stupid for counting on Pollack (or Thurman).

Either way, this leaves the inescapable conclusion that Mikey's stupid, which shouldn't be a shock to anyone who grew up around Cincinnati the past couple of decades. Let's hope they get real lucky on draft day.

[Stripes]

I'm with Derek.

The Bengals have lost more players this offseason than anyone would like, but given the free agency market we're in this year, I'd say they did a great job keeping their most important players. If we have to lose the likes of Kevin Kaesviharn, Brian Simmons, Tony Stewart, and Shaun Smith to keep the likes of Levi Jones, Willie Anderson, Bobbie Williams, Reggie Kelley, Justin Smith and Robert Geathers (beyond next year), then I'm all for it.

Simmons' replacement is already on the roster, and I'd honestly rather have Landon on the field than him. I was saying that before the offseason too. Tony Stewart can and will be replaced by one of the three candidates the Bengals have already gathered in Guenther, Ghent, or Day. Shaun Smith was a non-factor, and he'll be easily replaced on the second draft day.

The only loss we've endured this offseason that concerns me in the least is that of Kaesviharn. Even he played a minimal role on this team as a backup, and the draft will offer plenty of young players to bring in and fill that role. That player may not offer the immediate depth that KK did, but patience is a must with youth. We also have Ethan Kilmer waiting to prove himself.

[HoosierCat]

If we have to lose the likes of Kevin Kaesviharn, Brian Simmons, Tony Stewart, and Shaun Smith to keep the likes of Levi Jones, Willie Anderson, Bobbie Williams, Reggie Kelley, Justin Smith and Robert Geathers (beyond next year), then I'm all for it.

Well, if we had to, yeah -- but the reality is there's only one name on the list that's applicable and that's Justin. All the rest were locked down before March and we still had more than $10m in cap space. Basically, it turns out that the Bengals effectively coughed all those players (and more) up in order to keep Smith. I don't think they planned it that way, but they didn't anticipate the way FA money was going to trickle down this year, and that's where they have ended up.

Simmons' replacement is already on the roster, and I'd honestly rather have Landon on the field than him.

For how long, though? It will be very interesting to see how things play out with Landon. I think it's going to be very difficult for the Bngals to secure him (and Caleb, Andrews and Madieu) beyond '07. Assuming, of course, they agree he's the answer...

[HairOnFire]

Basically, it turns out that the Bengals effectively coughed all those players (and more) up in order to keep Smith. I don't think they planned it that way, but they didn't anticipate the way FA money was going to trickle down this year, and that's where they have ended up.

Is the sky still falling?

With the loss of Kaesviharn being the exception the Bengals have managed to accomplish everything they claimed was a priority in free agency, and if they're able to re-sign Smith to a long term contract it's more than possible they can free up cap space and add a player later. Of course the process may take months, but that's perfectly acceptable to me.

Besides, just think of how much whining and second guessing you can do until then.

[HoosierCat]

With the loss of Kaesviharn being the exception the Bengals have managed to accomplish everything they claimed was a priority in free agency,

Yeah, everything. But hey, to paraphrase Meatloaf, two outta six ain't bad...

[HairOnFire]

But hey, to paraphrase Meatloaf, two outta six ain't bad...

Meatloaf sucked, and so does your constant whining. Plus, your math isn't so good.

The article tearfully laments the loss of several players the Bengals showed some interest in keeping but never considered a priority. On that score they've managed to retain three out of the four players they had identified as being most important in their plans. I'd say that's almost perfect, but I guess almost perfect still leaves plenty of room for people to whine if they're determined to do so.

Which you always are.

In addition, one of the six players mentioned in the article is Anthony Wright, a player the article claims is very likely to return. Personally, I don't care very much ifhe stays or goes, but you're welcome to pretend like it would be a tragic loss if he departs. And if you do get to whine about him leaving I'll do my very best to forget how much you whined when he was signed. (Damned if they do. Damned if they don't.)

Last, when it comes to retaining free agents the numbers are only equal in articles....unless you'd like to argue now that losing a player like Marcus Wilkins is equal to keeping a Reggie Kelly or a Justin Smith.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Basically, it turns out that the Bengals effectively coughed all those players (and more) up in order to keep Smith. I don't think they planned it that way, but they didn't anticipate the way FA money was going to trickle down this year, and that's where they have ended up.

Is the sky still falling?

With the loss of Kaesviharn being the exception the Bengals have managed to accomplish everything they claimed was a priority in free agency, and if they're able to re-sign Smith to a long term contract it's more than possible they can free up cap space and add a player later. Of course the process may take months, but that's perfectly acceptable to me.

Besides, just think of how much whining and second guessing you can do until then.

If they accomplished all their goals, then they didn't have enough goals. Or didn't you watch our defense last year?

Put another way, where would you set the over/under for where our D ends the season ranked next year? I'm guessing 25.

[HairOnFire]

If they accomplished all their goals, then they didn't have enough goals. Or didn't you watch our defense last year?

Are you suggesting they would have been better served to let half or more of their offensive starters depart and then replace them in free agency?

[derekshank]

5 of those are still with the team, and are role players.

Well, that's my point. A few more role players aren't going to cut it. In order to fill in all our needs we'll need to find either starters or solid No. 2s all the way through round seven. That's asking a lot

I guess I'm not following your point. You're upset that KK is leaving. I understand that, but KK is a role player, not a starter. The Bengals have proven their ability to draft role players in the second round... however, that's not good enough? We have to draft starters through round 7? Well... It's not necessary to draft a starter to replace KK. Ratliff is a role player... so if we draft a 1st round DB, we should actually be improved in the secondary (even with the tragic loss of KK).

[Stripes]

Put another way, where would you set the over/under for where our D ends the season ranked next year? I'm guessing 25.

I'll set it at 22, with the scoring rank O/U at 14. Assuming all continues developing as it already has, in 2008 I'll bump it up to the 17/10 area... and so on and so forth.

Nobody (that I've seen) expects the defenders on the team now to produce a mircaulous season in 2007. I, among others, expect the same gradual improvement we've already witnessed since the start of the 2003 season. A couple years down the road, assuming the trend continues, I expect the Bengals to have a defense worthy of complementing the offense enough to put them in serious Superbowl discussion.

Nobody likes to hear it, but it's my opinion that it would be nearly impossible for the Bengals to field a Superbowl caliber team in 2007 -- with free agents or draft picks. Given that viewpoint, I'm glad the Bengals are sticking to their financial guns in hopes of improving our chances in a few seasons rather than taking big risks for the sake of next season.

I expect another 2005ish year in 2007. We should contend for the division title, and I'd be very surprised to see us miss the playoffs again.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

If they accomplished all their goals, then they didn't have enough goals. Or didn't you watch our defense last year?

Are you suggesting they would have been better served to let half or more of their offensive starters depart and then replace them in free agency?

False dichotomy. I would have done things so substantially differently that I wouldn't be in that position. I'd have let Williams and possibly Willie walk to keep Steinbach and get a couple decent players on D, for starters. I might have focused a whole lot more on the defense in general over the last 3 years in general, since it's clear to anyone that it needs help.

In fairness the flameout of their LB picks from 2005 is a bit of a surprise, but that makes it all the more critical that they do something this offseason, and they haven't.

Bottom line is, our 28th (wasn't it?) ranked defense from 2007 has, so far, gotten worse. Unless they get 2 real difference makers on D in the first two rounds, it will almost certainly perform worse than last year.

Put it this way - going into this season, they need too many things to happen right. They need to be right about Brooks, and they need to get a LB and another defender (LB,CB,maybe DT) in the first two rounds, and that puts a lot of pressure on this draft.

[HairOnFire]

False dichotomy. I would have done things so substantially differently that I wouldn't be in that position. I'd have let Williams and possibly Willie walk to keep Steinbach and get a couple decent players on D, for starters. I might have focused a whole lot more on the defense in general over the last 3 years in general, since it's clear to anyone that it needs help. In fairness the flameout of their LB picks from 2005 is a bit of a surprise, but that makes it all the more critical that they do something this offseason, and they haven't.

So in your dream scenario the Bengals defense would be a little farther along, but this team would have entered free agency needing a new RG and RT? Well I guess that's nothing that 100 million bucks won't cure.

I do agree that the defense deserved more draft day attention in the very recent past. For example, Chris Perry should be gathering dust on another teams IR list. But arguing that the Bengals should have done something about their rapidly thinning LB corp seems premature since they haven't had much time or opportunity to make changes. Yet they did use a supplemental pick last year on a player expected to start this season, they found another potential starter under a Canadian rock, they can get Thurman back if they want him, and last but certainly not least....the draft is coming up.

[HairOnFire]

Nobody likes to hear it, but it's my opinion that it would be nearly impossible for the Bengals to field a Superbowl caliber team in 2007 -- with free agents or draft picks. Given that viewpoint, I'm glad the Bengals are sticking to their financial guns in hopes of improving our chances in a few seasons rather than taking big risks for the sake of next season.

Yup.

The reader is cautioned to read the following armed with the knowledge that I've recently been accused of being an optimist. That said, due largely to the uncertainty surrounding Pollack and Thurman I'll argue the Bengals don't deserve to be ranked amongst the leading Super Bowl contenders, but still boast enough offensive firepower to rank as a solid playoff contender if they have fewer injuries than they suffered last season. And if they manage to reach the playoffs they'll have a punchers chance to reach the championship game. Best, due to their strategy of building a team around long-term goals instead of short-term needs the Bengals should continue to have that punchers chance for several seasons to come, and should be able to improve the odds as their defense improves.

[redsbengalsbucks]

False dichotomy. I would have done things so substantially differently that I wouldn't be in that position. I'd have let Williams and possibly Willie walk to keep Steinbach and get a couple decent players on D, for starters. I might have focused a whole lot more on the defense in general over the last 3 years in general, since it's clear to anyone that it needs help. In fairness the flameout of their LB picks from 2005 is a bit of a surprise, but that makes it all the more critical that they do something this offseason, and they haven't.

So in your dream scenario the Bengals defense would be a little farther along, but this team would have entered free agency needing a new RG and RT? Well I guess that's nothing that 100 million bucks won't cure.

I do agree that the defense deserved more draft day attention in the very recent past. For example, Chris Perry should be gathering dust on another teams IR list. But arguing that the Bengals should have done something about their rapidly thinning LB corp seems premature since they haven't had much time or opportunity to make changes. Yet they did use a supplemental pick last year on a player expected to start this season, they found another potential starter under a Canadian rock, they can get Thurman back if they want him, and last but certainly not least....the draft is coming up.

Careful HOF you are going to get blasted for being overly optimistic, you should know that most of the fans here just cant be happy with the status quo.

I agree with you that without a RG and RT this team would be is serious trouble and that there is no way to replace them for what they are paid now.

I have always hated the Cris Perry pick and also think that for the most part replacements for the departed are either already here as 2nd-3rd year players or can be picked up late in FA (those dreaded mid-tier FA's that most here hate) or in the draft.

I would expect to see a comp draft pick in the 4-5 round for the loss of Kitna last season to help this process along.

To be honest we have lost an aging LB and a versatile OL (that was extremely overpaid) as starters and 4-5 backup/ST players. I think they can replace the losses with as capable players quite easily. The only players I will miss from the bunch are Simmons (due to his loyalty over the years) and KK (due to his improving play, interesting back story and his heart/determination on the field of play)

WHO-DEY

[HoosierCat]

So in your dream scenario the Bengals defense would be a little farther along, but this team would have entered free agency needing a new RG and RT? Well I guess that's nothing that 100 million bucks won't cure.

What happened to Whitworth and Andrews? Whit was projected as an RT coming into the league, and if the Bear can't dance by now, I don't know why they tied up $1.3m on his tender. You can make an argument in favor of what the bengals did do, but the need to immediately spend tons of money to replace them isn't part of it.

[HairOnFire]

So in your dream scenario the Bengals defense would be a little farther along, but this team would have entered free agency needing a new RG and RT? Well I guess that's nothing that 100 million bucks won't cure.

What happened to Whitworth and Andrews? Whit was projected as an RT coming into the league, and if the Bear can't dance by now, I don't know why they tied up $1.3m on his tender. You can make an argument in favor of what the bengals did do, but the need to immediately spend tons of money to replace them isn't part of it.

In hindsight I think it's obvious that one of the most attractive things about Whitworth was his ability to play RT, RG, LG, and LT, and as a result he could have stepped into any position vacated by whichever starting offensive lineman refused to re-sign. That flexibility has already paid huge dividends, will do so again this season, and potentially gives the Bengals even more options on some future draft day.

As for Andrews, what exactly is your complaint? Even at the higher salary he's giving the Bengals another year of depth, and the tender either nets the Bengals a high draft pick or buys them time that can be used in further contract negotiations. At worst, a backup player who barely got any snaps moves on to greener pastures a year from now, and the bottom of the Bengals roster churns a little, as it does on every NFL team.

[TJJackson]

Ken Hamlin is now a Cowboy.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2809953